Anything Goes D2 Lounge!

[snickersnack]

Funny thing is that a lot of the "factual" stuff about D2 is also just an approximation of the truth. The only people who can know anything about what actually happens are those that open a debugger and see what code is being executed as the game runs. Considering that Blizzard does not look kindly on this (i.e. it forbids it for D2:R and tolerates it for D2:L) and the PK follows that policy, we are in a position of getting essentially no information on how D2:R works under the hood. Which is why you can't do anything but speculate when it comes to D2:R. (or break the EULA)

When somebody starts with some math nonsense (1 != 0.999..., -1/12 or 6/2*3) it is usually easy to untangle it, considering that it is either plain wrong (1 != 0.999...), stating a correct fact via abuse of notation (for example shadowing one definition with another, i.e. the -1/12 stuff) or undefined in most circles (6/2*3, because some people think that precedence rules are anything but a notational convenience).

With D2 there is no true authority you can refer to when somebody says something wrong and there are very few commonly accepted definitions of stuff, which makes sense because we don't have the source code or a specification of the game and hence have to make up stuff as we go along. Even if you debug D2 you still only debugged it for your system, it might be completely different on e.g. a Mac, see for example the insane loading times that some users achieved on a Mac, which where not reproducible on PCs.

Sure, but Newtonian Gravitation is just incorrect, but it's good enough to get to the moon. So, lots of things are workable with an approximation.

I'm not talking about details. I'm talking about a website claiming that a new runeword only works in diadems, when that's not how D2 runewords work. Anyone who plays D2 looking at a screenshot of a new, as-yet-unavailable runeword in a diadem would know that it probably works in all helms. Some of what I read was just *silly* wrong.

Also, what's this -1/12 thing? Should I google that, or is that the one where 1+2+3+4+...=-1/12?

Edit: so I did google it. I remember seeing that Numberphile video a long time ago and being confused by it and thinking that there was some BS involved, but I never really looked into it more than that.

 

[D2DC]

Question: Where is the best place to find a Sur rune? If you said LK, you're wrong..

Spoiler

Best place to find one is mixed in with your Sol Runes in your low rune stash!

 

[art_vandelay]

Sure, but Newtonian Gravitation is just incorrect, but it's good enough to get to the moon. So, lots of things are workable with an approximation.

I am not doubting that approximations work, but those usually require a lot of data to become accurate. For example the superchest explanation by Jarulf had a mistake (which is potentially very relevant when simulating drops from them) because despite being an expert he looked at them for maybe a few days only, posted a quick summary of his inquiry and then stopped. Fast forward 20 years later and a second person (Fruit) looks at them and finds the mistake. Physics is reliable because people usually test theories thoroughly instead of just for a few days, like we do.

I'm not talking about details. I'm talking about a website claiming that a new runeword only works in diadems, when that's not how D2 runewords work. Anyone who plays D2 looking at a screenshot of a new, as-yet-unavailable runeword in a diadem would know that it probably works in all helms. Some of what I read was just *silly* wrong.

I think that example is problematic in that the only thing we really knew back then was, that the runeword works in Diadems. Any speculation beyond that is just that, speculation. In fact it would require zero changes to any other file to make it "Circlet Only" and probably two small changes to text files to make it "Diadem Only".

For the actual mechanism you can google "nefarius itemtypes.txt" for an explanation. I can not guarantee that it will show up as first result for anyone else but if you find a post by Nefarius which has an attachment called "d2_itypes_diagram.gif", then you got it. Essentially you have a directed graph where for any edge "a -> b" the start and end node are interpreted as parent and child respectively. This naming convention makes it sound like a tree but as you can see from the diagram in the source one child can have multiple parents and there are in fact multiple "roots". The explanation by Nefarius leaves it open whether cycles are "allowed" (they certainly wouldn't fit in well).

Now some of the .txts allow you to specify which item types are affected by something, e.g. what affixes can spawn on which item types or what runewords can be made in which item type. This is done by giving a list of included and excluded nodes of the graph above. Any node that is a descendant of an included node is allowed, unless it is a descendant of an excluded node as well. So for example for a runeword you could include the node "(helm) Helm" and exclude the node "(pelt) Pelt" and that would mean that the runeword works in all helms that are not pelts.

It is a great system and allows for a lot of customization. If the graph is too coarse for your needs you can even specify new nodes (e.g. "(diad) Diadem" if you want) directly in the .txts and the game will go along with it (assuming you didn't mess up). It is a shame they never explored this further because it is actual child's play to create things such as "Circlet only", "Club only" or "Spear only" runewords (minus the part where you have to actually balance them ).

Also, what's this -1/12 thing? Should I google that, or is that the one where 1+2+3+4+...=-1/12?

Edit: so I did google it. I remember seeing that Numberphile video a long time ago and being confused by it and thinking that there was some BS involved, but I never really looked into it more than that.

Yes, that is exactly it. It's the classic "Oh, you thought I was talking about sums? I was actually talking about an advanced concept from number theory which uses the same notation as sums, that even most mathematicians will never see! They must not have covered that in your high school, sorry."-hoodwink, pulled with a straight face.

 

[snickersnack]

I think that example is problematic in that the only thing we really knew back then was, that the runeword works in Diadems. Any speculation beyond that is just that, speculation. In fact it would require zero changes to any other file to make it "Circlet Only" and probably two small changes to text files to make it "Diadem Only".

Mmmm, I disagree. The site I saw* said that it was diadems only without any evidence for the "only" part, and it ignored the fact that no existing runeword that works in helms works only in one kind. Their speculative claim ran counter to the available evidence, probably because they weren't fully aware of how runewords work, which was my point. I doubt that the author of that list I looked at was at all aware of the directed graph you mentioned.

* If I could find it again, I'd link it here, but I wasn't able to find it (it's probably been corrected since I saw it).

There were also other weird claims that made no sense, but that's the one that stood out the most.

 

[coju]

Playing with FoH. Have a Trav Map where the council hang out inside the hut and I can snipe them from outside. Kind of boring holding down the R key for FoH. But, I am running trav! Nothing much of note for drops. A couple Eth runes and Orts.

 

[coju]

Playing with FoH. Have a Trav Map where the council hang out inside the hut and I can snipe them from outside. Kind of boring holding down the R key for FoH. But, I am running trav! Nothing much of note for drops. A couple Eth runes and Orts.

Lum just now from Countness. Also, found one of those Kite Shield's y'all rant and rave about. I still don't understand what's so special about the stats if it were a Monarch.

Edit: thank you @SirName for clarifying my question!

 

[SirName]

Lum just now from Countness. Also, found one of those Kite Shield's y'all rant and rave about. I still don't understand what's so special about the stats if it were a Monarch.

That one is missing the Jewelers prefix which would give 4 sockets in a Monarch. That enables nice customisation possibilities: slap it full of light facets for a Javazon or IAS jewels or something.

 

[Crudesash]

My 68 Fanazealot had his 1st death last night, an archer pack in Stony Fields; it was an instant death, I know that they had Might, but I'm guessing they were also Extra Strong, maybe Multishot also. It was really frustrating because his gear was rounding into form; Lawbringer PB, Smoke Balrog Skin, Sigon's Gloves, Boots, Belt (that needs to be upgraded) the rest rares (shield, ammy, circlet wll with +1 to skills), 75/75/64/46 Resists, Holy Shield isn't maxed yet but defense and blocking were in good shape, I just got smoked. Pissed me off I just turned the game off. I'll be in a better place in 7 levels when the Merc can equip Reaper's, just gotta grind. I really should just run NM Baal for drops and XP but I really prefer moving forward.

Hope everyone has a gold and green day!

 

[Arjan]

My 68 Fanazealot had his 1st death last night, an archer pack in Stony Fields; it was an instant death, I know that they had Might, but I'm guessing they were also Extra Strong, maybe Multishot also. It was really frustrating because his gear was rounding into form; Lawbringer PB, Smoke Balrog Skin, Sigon's Gloves, Boots, Belt (that needs to be upgraded) the rest rares (shield, ammy, circlet wll with +1 to skills), 75/75/64/46 Resists, Holy Shield isn't maxed yet but defense and blocking were in good shape, I just got smoked. Pissed me off I just turned the game off. I'll be in a better place in 7 levels when the Merc can equip Reaper's, just gotta grind. I really should just run NM Baal for drops and XP but I really prefer moving forward.

Hope everyone has a gold and green day!

Been running LK for quite some time. No really great runes dropped but I did find numerous gold and green ones, best one was the Thunderstroke Javs for my furyzon. Been looking for a unique one for ages… obvious I found one when she finished the game

 

[BBS_Agonistes]

My 68 Fanazealot had his 1st death last night, an archer pack in Stony Fields; it was an instant death, I know that they had Might, but I'm guessing they were also Extra Strong, maybe Multishot also. It was really frustrating because his gear was rounding into form; Lawbringer PB, Smoke Balrog Skin, Sigon's Gloves, Boots, Belt (that needs to be upgraded) the rest rares (shield, ammy, circlet wll with +1 to skills), 75/75/64/46 Resists, Holy Shield isn't maxed yet but defense and blocking were in good shape, I just got smoked. Pissed me off I just turned the game off. I'll be in a better place in 7 levels when the Merc can equip Reaper's, just gotta grind. I really should just run NM Baal for drops and XP but I really prefer moving forward.

Hope everyone has a gold and green day!

I know the feels... my Fanazealot that tried to start A1 Hell around that level and I turned tail and ran back to NM for a while after an insta-death like that. It seemed like a source of DR helped with the archers, because they are quite dangerous when they spawn with fana / might aura and more. My guy was very resistant to elemental attacks (like yours, Smoke) and was fine fighting packs of baddies that do physical damage because he could leech real well, but the archers were rough.

 

[Crudesash]

I know the feels... my Fanazealot that tried to start A1 Hell around that level and I turned tail and ran back to NM for a while after an insta-death like that. It seemed like a source of DR helped with the archers, because they are quite dangerous when they spawn with fana / might aura and more. My guy was very resistant to elemental attacks (like yours, Smoke) and was fine fighting packs of baddies that do physical damage because he could leech real well, but the archers were rough.

Exactly. The PB is amazing...and so damn fast. Anything but Skellies or archers are pretty much ok...I might switch to a Defiance Merc, I've been using the BA merc from normal.

 

[Arjan]

Today was a sorc day. She gained a level, bested Duriel and took her first steps in my “beloved” first part of act III.

Tried 4 times to get my Spirit to 35% fcr so I don’t need a ring or amu anymore. Only lost 4 Hel runes and 16 Tal,Thul, Ort and Amn ones and the thing is again at 34%

 

[Crudesash]

So switched to Def merc, and did Baal runs to go from 68-71. He dropped...nothing, as expected. But I did go back into Hell and rescue Cain. There was no noticeable drop off in killing speed with the Def merc, but it felt a lot beefier, so that seems to have been the right way to go. I might bench the honorable Pal for a bit, I have a hankering for an HC barb project I was thinking (and wrote) about. Cheers!

 

[BBS_Agonistes]

Today was a sorc day. She gained a level, bested Duriel and took her first steps in my “beloved” first part of act III.

Tried 4 times to get my Spirit to 35% fcr so I don’t need a ring or amu anymore. Only lost 4 Hel runes and 16 Tal,Thul, Ort and Amn ones and the thing is again at 34%

My son rolled 2 Spirits and got one 35% on the first try. The other... not so much, lol. I'm afraid to reroll it with my Hels. The lower FCR will be character-building for a 9-year-old.

So switched to Def merc, and did Baal runs to go from 68-71. He dropped...nothing, as expected. But I did go back into Hell and rescue Cain. There was no noticeable drop off in killing speed with the Def merc, but it felt a lot beefier, so that seems to have been the right way to go. I might bench the honorable Pal for a bit, I have a hankering for an HC barb project I was thinking (and wrote) about. Cheers!

I've never really tried the Def merc. I do love leveling up my characters on NM Baal. Once the merc's resists are up, throw all that Ptopaz armor on the merc and let him get the kill and Baal can drop some pretty decent stuff!

 

[SirName]

Defensive merc is actually my default choice if my char isn’t depending on the added damage from Might. Everyone has their preference but what I have gathered is that funnily everyones reason for there preference is the same

• Defiance makes the merc get hit less so he survives better
• Might makes the merc leach more and kill faster so he survives better
• Holy freeze slows the enemies so the merc survives better

 

[Arjan]

Today was a Palladin day.

Still figuring out what area I want to farm with him. So today I tried a few locations.

Andy - p8: easy but not getting me a lot of good stuff
cows - p8: doable. I need to make sure not to get swarmed by two groups with unique cows. Found a Mavena's armor which I didnt't have
Travincal - p8: quite safe if I pay attention on aura's and curses. Found a bunch of Lums and a Wizardspike
Pindel - p8: that's somewhat scary sometimes. If he spawns PI I just S+E
Eldrich and Shenk: - p8: easy but not too rewarding so far.

the last hour or so I decided to run Travincal, then Pindel and finish with Eldrich. Quick, some nice finds but nothing too good.

 

[Arjan]

Today was a Amazon day. So that means running LK for the time being.

The highest rune I found was an Io (not a Lo), the only set or unique item a Artics horn, but I did gamble a couple of usefull amu's for other characters. The sorc got a nice +2 skiller with some extra Mana

Yesterday was Barb-day. He only found two waypoints and three levels.

 

[Crudesash]

Working my HC Barb all day yesterday, saved at the Inner Cloister. Found Biggin’s Bonnet & Infernal cranium so far, and had a few tough spots already, but nothing heart stopping.

 

[Arjan]

Took the sorceress out for a spin. Hell act II. Started in Spider Forest and so far got her to LK. Found some gold en green items but nothing remotely worth mentioning. Best thing she found itemwise for me was a Monarch so that's going to find its way to my barb and Larzuk.

But! And this is quite a big but too.. .she rolled a near perfect LK map for running. campfire, campfire, waypoint. All next to each other. We're not done for today yet, but I'm fairly sure ths means the Javazon is going to run something else quite soon!

 

[coju]

Found a map the other day. Cubed a couple phase blades. 5 socket!
Found a Lo rune from a Christmas giveaway omgwtfbbqpwnd gave. So reckon it’s high time to make a grief..

Want to run trav and pits. So now I gotta see what else I have to make a horker survivable.