any suggestions on my cheap man witchy build? please? :D <


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Sep 28, 2004
any suggestions on my cheap man witchy build? please? :D

well, here's basically what i'll be wearing:

-tal's mask (amazing mods... sickeningly underrated)
-(upped) witchwild, shael shael ???
-full disciple (also sickeningly underrated.)
-raven + undecided second ring. AR/ll?

this nets me at least 50 res all in hell after all the anya quests. with the other bonuses from the disciple set, i should have at least 2/4 res's maxed; i think i'll have only 50 light res though.

i was just wondering if anyone thinks this build would be efficient. i've never made a zon before, but will be following the stickied strafe witchyzon guide here pretty closely except for equipment.

i was a little worried about my valk though. does the disciple set provide enough def to make my valk viable in hell?

speaking of valk -- i have a +2 helm. any good? or should i stick with the tal's mask? (i couldn't care less about looks.)

thank you in advance for any insight and sorry if i'm being an idiot about this. new to zons and the zon forum :p
hi bud, so you have wandered out of the barb forum :)

i assume you'll use the skills as per the WWS guide, so no worries there.

ShaelShael is pretty much standard for a uWWS.
The rest of the gear is less certain...
The LoH are also pretty standard, but the res of the disciple set is, imo, sickenngly useless for a zon. The res's aren't needed, the def is also redundant and the lack of IAS will eat up your socket spaces. Whilst i am sure you will be viable to PvM i am equally sure that you would be more viable if you swapped out the ammy/boot/armour/belt for some items more orientated to strafe/ms.
Your second ring slot will really depend on what other items you wear - if you stick with the Disciple set, then almost anything will do - so stats / ar / max/ min etc etc would all be nice. However if you ditch the Disciple parts then you may need that ring slot to get leech of some sort.

"i was a little worried about my valk though. does the disciple set provide enough def to make my valk viable in hell?"

Is a little confusing - the items your valk spawns with are entirely dependent on what level she is when cast, and have nothing to do with what items you are wearing.

Stick with the tals mask - if u want to pre-buff a valk then +3 P&M gloves, and a +3 Ammy will give her a nice boost, anything further is serious overkill (assuming that you will get slvl 17 Valk as a base level).
what did you mean by the resists on the disciple set aren't needed? lol. i figure i should have AT LEAST 50 res all in hell...

so here's my "revised" setup:

-tal's mask, 15ias
-(upped) wws, shael shael
-'smoke' armor
-ring with dual leech and some resists

giving me 2fpa and a minimum of 50all, plus some extra bonuses...

any good? should i still aim for max res all?
Hmmm, revised setup isn't quite as cheap as the original!
Couple of cheap alternatives:
Duriels' Shell--main benefit over smoke for a zon is that it is socketable. Think IAS, ED, or more resists.
Wilhelms Pride--dual leech, save some str from crenendulum to put in dex or vit, and don't have to use that expensive dual ring!
Atma's--ctc amp is cool, and, at least in my exp, its cheaper than highlords.

Just a few thoughts for a more budget based build.
it's a matter of opinion (like most of D2)..

For melee zons - Jab/Charged strike etc etc a little pdr and good resists are needed. But for a purely ranged zon - ie strafer/ms - then you shouldn't be getting hit, either by melee or from ranged attackers as your Merc and/or Valk take the hits for you. And as such resists are the least of your worries.

So it depends on how you play, but both my two main zons (pure strafer & strafe/LF hybrid) have ~ MINUS 50 res all on Hell (fire is a little higher/better due to LoH).

as for your revised gear:

Lionheart and razortail (or Nos Coil) would be my choices, but ofc not all zons are built the same.
well, i feel like making a 'smoke' anyways -- maybe not for the zon but hey it's a fun runeword anyways.

so here's "revised revised setup."
(oh and btw cotton -- good point about saving the dual leech. putting that on either my wwbarb or my zealbarb :D)

-tal's mask, 15ias
-(upped) wws, shael shael
-duriel's shell, 15ias
-dungos. i have like 4 of these so i might as well :p
-wartravs??? the added damage is really cool but unless it's 30% mf this could be expensive. my 42 and 45s seem like a colossal waste on this cheapo build.
-eye of etlich -- don't have an atma's handy and paying for one seems foolish.
-rings with AR/ll... blue one with 120/6 :D

the main problem i see with this build is the low, low +skills. that was basically one of the main reasons why i was considering using the full disciple set, which gives +2 and +1 from the amulet. those +skills could save me the trouble of getting some p/m prebuffers. and with tal's mask and dark adherent socketed with 2x 15ias, i would hit the breakpoint for 2fpa. for an all-around build, disciple just seems to make the most sense. besides, with the above items, both sockets would have to be 15ias anyways. it would also save me the trouble of finding 30%wartravs and an atma's...

or are you gonna tell me that +skills are as necessary as resists? :p
I don't think +skills are that necessary on a zon; I think you'll find at higher levels you are trying to find places to put those skill pts. (Hmm, a little more CS couldn't hurt, and 1 more in dodge might save me every 200th game.....) I should point out, though, that I'm not that big on using my valk to kill stuff--as long as she is strong enough to keep the mosters out of the backfield, I'm happy. The bow skills are fine without +skills, IMHO (try trading a +bow skiller for anything valuable.)

I like resists at a decent level. Nothing sucks quite so bad as going to 1 life EVERY time a quill rat shoots you or picking up your body during blizzard season in Travincal.

As for boots, Gore Riders are probably the best, silkweaves have dex (=damage,) Nat's have 2 resists, but the cheapest viable alternatives are probably rares or Aldur's.

One last note, after re-reading everything. The coolest thing about making this girl with disciple set would be telling everybody that you have a zon wearing the disciple set. It would definitely be worth some cool points....
silkweaves don't have dex, lol. i'm assuming you meant waterwalks?

why cool points for disciple? is it just an uncommon set so people would be like "hahaha non-mav set zon"? i just got the whole thing and feel it would be a waste if i didn't use it. i also acquired the wws for two pgems, which i figured was a pretty good deal and i also figured would be a waste.

i have no idea how i came across a tal's mask in my mule inventory, but hey i figured dual leech and resists. better not waste.

as for the rings.. yeah i don't know what went through my mind for those but basically this zon is a "stop wasting stuff" build. :D

you're right about resists, though. i find 50 is comfortable for ranged attackers -- zons or casters. better to be safe than dead, i guess. :evil:
Yes, sorry, I meant waterwalks. And tal's mask is, I think, vastly underrated. It may not be the ultimate helm for any build, but it is a good helm for anything melee. Come to think of it, I believe every merc on chars I am currently playing is wearing one. In 1.09, you could make an endgame zon with nothing but buriza, tal's mask, and duriels shell. You probably still could (next project--the half-naked zon?)

The cool factor relates only to the fact that you could build the disciples set by entering games called "FreeCrapOnGround" and have all of the pieces. There would be something satisfying in saying "WWS and disciples" to a Windforce-wielding, 'nigma wearing bowie you just killed Baal beside.
My Strafer's buid: (you need 86 IAS for 9/2 strafe)

Peasant Crown
uwws Shael Shael (40 IAS)
Crow Caw + IAS Jewel (35 IAS) (15 dex, 35 open wounds, fhr, great armor!)
Lava Gout (20 IAS Enchant really helps my AR)
Rare +1 ammy with cold/lit res and mana leech
Raven + Manald rings
Cow King's Boots

My build has crap for resists, and I'm in hardcore! :). I try to use charms as much as I possibly can to bring up the important resists (cold/lightning)
I followed chip's witchie guide, and found it quite effective up to hell A4, but it really didnt seem to have enough knockdown power once I got to the chaos sanctuary. Regardless I used the witchie up to level 76 playing hardcore, I am now at level 84 and use hellrack colussus xbow instead. Unfortunately, the big thing you lose is the resists that the witchie offers, but play still seems easier (and safer), as I knock the monsters down a lot quicker than before, but I do have to be careful since my resists are much poorer now.

However, I did the anya quest partied with a barb, and switched back to the witchie as the amp damage kept kicking in enough to make it more helpful for the barb to tank and kill. Another thing, those bitchin lil monsters that have the pierce lightning attack would have killed me numerous times if i hadnt of switched to the witchie (I also used Blackhorns helm down there which helped immensely).

My gear:

Helm - rare +2 skills/15str/20% run-walk/socket 15%ias jew
Amy - Cres Moon
glove - LOH
Weapon - hellrack colussus xbow (shael/nef) knockback helps alot regardless what people might say
switch upgraded witchie (shael/shael)
Armor - Lionheart
Belt - Nosferatus coil
rings - rare dualleech 6/4, ravenfrost
boots - GoblinToe (not even sure if Crushing blow works with bow but it seems to) fortunately get 20% faster run walk from helm

Final note: IMHO dont think it would matter what gear you used if you dont have good merc and valk, zons have difficult time in hell. Knockback is mandatory for me, may not be as important if you mostly play in parties but personally,I couldnt play solo without it
Originally Posted by Arreat Summit

Crushing Blow
This is a chance of reducing a monster's health by X% in a single blow.

-Default: 1/4th
-vs. Players: 1/10th
-vs. Hirelings: 1/10th
-vs. Champions, Uniques, Bosses: 1/8th
-with missile weapons, default: 1/8th
-with missile weapons, vs. Players: 1/20th
-with missile weapons, vs Hirelings: 1/20th
-with missile weapons, vs Champions, Uniques, Bosses: 1/16th
-The life removed is also scaled with number of players. So that if a monster has 450% more life due to 8 players (or whatever the value is) the life removed is further reduced by the same amount (450% would equal multiplying by 4.5 so the life removed by Crushing Blow is divided by 4.5).

Physical resistance does apply to Crushing Blow damage, but only if the resistance is positive. Crushing Blow Items stack in most cases. In 1.10 Crushing Blow is calculated before your normal damage. So, before doing the damage that you would normally do, there is a chance you will reduce the health of the monster by X% then normal damage apply to the resulting lower life. If you have more than one item with Crushing Blow, the probabilities will be added together. There will be one random check for a Crushing Blow. There is no check for each separate item, so one can not get multiple Crushing Blows in one attack.
Thx for the info on crushing blow, I have looked for info on this many times and have been unable to find.

Just to clarify:

Goblintoe boots offer 25% chance of crushing blow but as a zon this would be further reduced to 1/8 or so is this 12.5%/arrow

or is it the item (25%) multiplied by the fact that it is missile attack so .25 x .125 = 3.125%

I think i remember reading that crushing blow is further reduced in NM and hell levels, but cant recall what the numbers were.

Regardless with strafe, 7 arrows/volley fighting one monster/boss crushing blow helps a lot.

Most people throw rattlecage away, but I love slappin it on my merc, yes he dies more often but he is so much more effective when fighting uniques/bosses
i think you misunderstood the crushing blow mechanism.

for example, let's say you wear goblin toe; that's 25%. meaning you have 1/4 chance to deal crushing blow.

the thing with crushing blow is that it doesn't have a SET damage. what happens is that when it triggers, it reduced a monster's total HP by a certain fraction (see the post two posts above this).

generally speaking, most monsters have average 50% physical resistance in hell. this resistance also applies to crushing blow, since crushing blow is a form of physical damage. if they resist 50% of your damage, then you need to hit them twice to deal the same amount of damage you would deal if they had 0 resistance.

the standard fractions mentioned in that post up there is against monsters with 0 resistance. for the majority of monsters in hell, ranged weapons would need (1/8*2 = 1/16) 16 crushing blow hits to kill a non-boss monster, and 40 crushing blow hits to kill a boss.

but because you have only goblin toe (25%), you multiply the number of crushing blow hits required by 4 to get a total of (*average*) 160 hits to kill a boss.

160/7 = 23x strafe.
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