Abortion in America

[Glurin]

You may go to a different state for an abortion. Or can your home state prosecute you then once you came back?

I don't think it's an issue. Ever hear the old saying "What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas."? Basically the same principle. What you do in other states is not your home state's business, and that's generally the way most rational people feel about it. Unless you bring it home with you of course. For example, during the big push to legalize marijuana, some states had an uptick in arrests for possession because people thought they could just buy it in a state that legalized it and transport it into or across a state that didn't. Well they found out otherwise when they got pulled over for speeding or weaving or, you know, driving three miles an hour on the freeway because they were too stoned to go any faster.

That's kind of how the U.S. is supposed to function. The constitution lays out a small handful of basic rules that everyone has to abide by, but anything not listed is up to each state to decide for themselves. The federal government is supposed to be a LOT smaller and a LOT less powerful than it is. Technically it's only real purpose is to keep the states from going to war with each other and protect them from invasion.

 

[Noodle]

Glutton shows a remarkably deep ignorance of the role of government in the United States.

 

[Leopold Stotch]

Most people don't even know what the law in their own state actually is. Especially Oklahoma, where literally nobody actually knows what the law is. They may know it's banned in the late term or banned sometime early in the pregnancy or not banned at all, but they may not know exactly which exceptions exist or at exactly what week the ban goes into effect or that the law allows abortions after the baby is born and laying on a table trying to breath while the doctor discusses performing an abortion with the mother.

This I can actually see myself agreeing on. Not only this confusion, but also vague wording as well. When I lived in TX, I had to Google up specifics about the new abortion overturn, especially since TX did not have an immediate trigger law, unlike some other states.

No one is going to move over this issue.

I did. To be fair, I/we had already made up my mind about moving anyway but the overturning just helped solidified my choice. Maybe my priorities are misplaced, but I'm happier.

You may go to a different state for an abortion. Or can your home state prosecute you then once you came back?

I think it's so messy right now. I know in TX (even before the overturning), they made it to where you could be sued/prosecuted if anyone thought you had an abortion and they wanted a reward; basically your neighbor could be an abortion bounty hunter. You and your doc could get sued. All it takes is one person to be like, "Yo, I think Leo got an abortion because she was pregnant and not pregnant anymore and I don't see a baby." I could have had a miscarriage and I could still get investigated for a potential abortion all because my neighbor (or someone else. Could be anyone) said something to authorities. Has this happened yet? I am not aware of it, but as of now, that was the current law.

I don't think it's an issue. Ever hear the old saying "What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas."? Basically the same principle.

It SHOULD be like this but it is not.

Unless you bring it home with you of course. For example, during the big push to legalize marijuana, some states had an uptick in arrests for possession because people thought they could just buy it in a state that legalized it and transport it into or across a state that didn't.

Some red states are in fact trying to do make it illegal to go across state lines to get an abortion. I'm not sure if anything has passed though (been out of the loop for about 3 weeks)

Florida court says teen is not 'mature' enough to have an abortion

The 16-year-old may now be forced to have a baby even though she is "parentless" and has told the court she is "not ready."

www.nbcnews.com

Please make it make sense.

 

[superdave]

This I can actually see myself agreeing on. Not only this confusion, but also vague wording as well. When I lived in TX, I had to Google up specifics about the new abortion overturn, especially since TX did not have an immediate trigger law, unlike some other states.



I did. To be fair, I/we had already made up my mind about moving anyway but the overturning just helped solidified my choice. Maybe my priorities are misplaced, but I'm happier.



I think it's so messy right now. I know in TX (even before the overturning), they made it to where you could be sued/prosecuted if anyone thought you had an abortion and they wanted a reward; basically your neighbor could be an abortion bounty hunter. You and your doc could get sued. All it takes is one person to be like, "Yo, I think Leo got an abortion because she was pregnant and not pregnant anymore and I don't see a baby." I could have had a miscarriage and I could still get investigated for a potential abortion all because my neighbor (or someone else. Could be anyone) said something to authorities. Has this happened yet? I am not aware of it, but as of now, that was the current law.

Florida court says teen is not 'mature' enough to have an abortion

The 16-year-old may now be forced to have a baby even though she is "parentless" and has told the court she is "not ready."

www.nbcnews.com

Please make it make sense.

Force an immature teen to raise a child? It's going to get worse. Facebook is handing over dm's to the police in Nebraska so they can go after a teen and her mom for taking abortion drugs.

 

[Glurin]

Florida court says teen is not 'mature' enough to have an abortion

The 16-year-old may now be forced to have a baby even though she is "parentless" and has told the court she is "not ready."

www.nbcnews.com

Please make it make sense.

I saw that one earlier today. Basically the lower court recognized that this girl wasn't really addressing her situation. She was emotional, confused, expressed conflicting desires and couldn't really articulate her request very well at all. It's understandable why she would be like that. She has legitimate concerns about having a baby and is under extra stress from a recent death of a friend. But that's not at all the kind of state to be in when making decisions. Especially life altering ones. So the lower court pretty much said take a little time, cool down, come back once you've got your thoughts together and we'll re-evaluate. Which is a perfectly reasonable ruling to make.

That's when it got kicked up to the appeals court. One of the judges agreed with the lower court. She just needed a little time to allow her to express a better understanding of her situation and the consequences involved, and would have remanded the case back to the lower court for that re-evaluation. The other two judges on the panel, however, disagreed and decided to settle the matter there.

Now, something that needs to be made clear here is that they were not saying she wasn't old enough for an abortion. The issue in question was about parental consent. Since 2004, Florida law has required that the parents be notified if a minor seeks an abortion, and in 2020 it was changed to also require parental consent. You can get a waiver to the notice and consent part if there is legitimate concern of abuse if the parent or guardian found out about the pregnancy. She claims her legal guardian is cool with it, which if that's true then it seems to me that there shouldn't be any point to going to court for a waiver.

 

[Glurin]

Facebook is handing over dm's to the police in Nebraska so they can go after a teen and her mom for taking abortion drugs.

No, they didn't. That is a lie being pushed by the pro-abortion fanatics and media lapdogs.

Facebook did hand over data, but only on request from Nebraska investigators as they were wrapping up their investigation.

Authorities received tip that the girl had a miscarriage and she and the mother burned and buried the body. They interviewed the girl and her mother and they confessed that she did have a miscarriage and that another man helped them dispose of it. After checking medical records to find out she was indeed six months pregnant at the time of the alleged miscarriage, they interviewed the man that helped them dispose of the body to find and exhume the remains, which corroborated the claims against them. The mother and daughter were charged with felony concealing, removing, or abandoning of human remains and two misdemeanors for false reporting and concealing the death of another person.

That's when the investigators obtained the Facebook data which showed that the two of them had conspired to perform an illegal abortion and hide the evidence. It was after that that two more felonies were added for performing an abortion after 20 weeks and performing an abortion without a medical license.

All of this of course was being reported to give the impression that everything happened in reverse. That big mean Facebook saw someone conspiring to perform an abortion in Nebraska and maliciously handed over the data to police just so those people could be prosecuted.

 

[superdave]

Facebook gave dm's to authorities. Authorities charged mother and daughter with felonies based on this evidence as you just agreed above. Nothing I said was a lie.

 

[Talga Vasternich]

I did. To be fair, I/we had already made up my mind about moving anyway but the overturning just helped solidified my choice. Maybe my priorities are misplaced, but I'm happier.

So abortion law wasn't the sole reason for moving.

Florida court says teen is not 'mature' enough to have an abortion

The 16-year-old may now be forced to have a baby even though she is "parentless" and has told the court she is "not ready."

www.nbcnews.com

Please make it make sense.

Seems simple to me.
The law of the state in which she lives requires consent from parent or guardian. She has no parents, but has a legal guardian. The legal guardian did not consent. Had the legal guardian given consent, this would not have gone to a judge.
You don't support minors being able to make decisions about elective medical procedures without consent of a parent or legal guardian, do you?
Also, the father will not be supporting, but is not identified. This is for one of two reasons; first - the father is a minor, second; the father is not known or not named by the pregnant girl.
Regardless, paternity should be established and either the man support the child he fathered (and be charged for ****) or the parents of the minor who impregnated the girl support the child until the minor comes of age... then he be required to support the child.

Force an immature teen to raise a child?

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
Maybe if people understand that they will be responsible for the consequences of their decisions and actions, they might make decisions that don't lead to the intentional ending of a life.

It's going to get worse.

For who?

Facebook is handing over dm's to the police in Nebraska so they can go after a teen and her mom for taking abortion drugs.

Are you suggesting FB defy the warrant that was obtained to retrieve this information?
Personally, I find it hilarious that anyone would think this sort of communication isn't fair game in a criminal investigation.

Still... I understand you'd rather celebrate the killing of a 23-week old perfectly healthy human as a victory for choice than admit this was illegal according to the laws of the state and should be investigated, charged, and tried.

 

[Talga Vasternich]

Correction - almost 30 weeks

 

[superdave]

Correction - almost 30 weeks

So the mother should be able to claim the 30 week old human as a tax deduction?

 

[Talga Vasternich]

So the mother should be able to claim the 30 week old human as a tax deduction?

Irrelevant to a discussion about abortion, so you're only bringing it up as a distraction or deflection... but why not, let pregnant women take a tax deduction. Mind you, they'd have to provide proof, which voluntarily eliminates a lot of protections concerning medical privacy, but who cares about keeping personal medical information private... especially from the government.

More germane to what we're talking about... in Nebraska, if someone committed violence against a woman who was 30 weeks pregnant and the baby died, they'd face a felony fetal homicide charge as Nebraska is one of 38 states that have laws concerning fetal homicide.

 

[superdave]

It is relevant to the discussion. The state needs to align their tax laws with other laws. You insist on calling a 23 week fetus a human. Nebraska will put a woman in prison for aborting said fetus because they, like you believe that it is a human. The woman who carried the fetus should be able to benefit on their tax return from your and the states chosen nomenclature.

 

[Noodle]

You may go to a different state for an abortion. Or can your home state prosecute you then once you came back?

GOP senator blocks bill to protect interstate travel for abortion

GOP Sen. James Lankford (Okla.) on Thursday blocked a Democratic request to unanimously pass a bill seeking to protect interstate travel for abortion. Sen. Catherine Cortez Masto (D-Nev.), joined b…

thehill.com

 

[krischan]

No matter whether it's prosecuted or not, both scenarios are silly.

Let's assume that state A doesn't allow abortions of a certain kind and state B does. What happens in the following scenarios:

Citizen of B makes such an abortion, then goes to A.
Citizen of A goes to B, makes the abortion, goes back to A.

Might it also be relevant in which state somebody becomes pregnant? If yes, it becomes even sillier.

 

[Talga Vasternich]

The state needs to align their tax laws with other laws.

You should get on this.
Tell the legislators in Nebraska how they need to align their tax laws with other laws.
Let us know what they say.

No matter whether it's prosecuted or not, both scenarios are silly.

Prosecuting a crime that happened out of your state / jurisdiction is indeed silly.
Shamefully, abortion would not be the first or only crime that states prosecute even when it happens outside their boundaries. Lawmakers allow and encourage prosecutors to do this and appoint judges who allow and encourage as well.

 

[superdave]

No matter whether it's prosecuted or not, both scenarios are silly.

Let's assume that state A doesn't allow abortions of a certain kind and state B does. What happens in the following scenarios:

Citizen of B makes such an abortion, then goes to A.
Citizen of A goes to B, makes the abortion, goes back to A.

Might it also be relevant in which state somebody becomes pregnant? If yes, it becomes even sillier.

And this is why Congress needs to codify abortion rights. Americans should have the same rights and access to abortion no matter what state they live.

 

[superdave]

Force an immature teen to raise a child? It's going to get worse. Facebook is handing over dm's to the police in Nebraska so they can go after a teen and her mom for taking abortion drugs.

And the judge is now unemployed. He was just voted out.

 

[Talga Vasternich]

And the judge is now unemployed. He was just voted out.

Voting works to correct things in a Democratic society.
Who knew.
I thought whining about the unfairness whatever system you don't agree with on social media or in the comments section of articles or websites was the way things got done.

I wonder if people on a state-by-state basis will vote to protect access to abortion. Remind me... what happened when the people of Kansas voted on this issue?

 

[superdave]

Voting works to correct things in a Democratic society.
Who knew.
I thought whining about the unfairness whatever system you don't agree with on social media or in the comments section of articles or websites was the way things got done.

Go down the rabbit hole and click on the comments to just about any Fox News article. I dare you.

 

[Talga Vasternich]

Go down the rabbit hole and click on the comments to just about any Fox News article. I dare you.

I know what sort of mouth-breathing, knuckle-dragging partisan hacks make those comments.
I'm guessing they believe they're making a difference in the same way.

One of my favorite quotes:
"It is usually futile to try to talk facts and analysis to people who are enjoying a sense of moral superiority in their ignorance."