A question concerning ATMA & Hardcore

[DVAlan]

A question concerning ATMA & Hardcore

When a hardcore character dies, can he still be accessible through ATMA? Or is he completely deleted? I'm wondering if any items that I transfer over to said hardcore character will be at the risk of deletion upon dying.

 

[jiansonz]

The character will stay dead, but the items will be accessible. However, I think that most players here would regard those items as lost and something you shouldn´t touch.

 

[Bull(R)]

Yes. You can access a dead Hardcore character to take items. HOWEVER, it all comes down to morality. If you feel that taking items that were on a dead character is groovy, than take them. Most people on these forums probably wouldn't want to take them, as they can mule off items regularly if need be; and when the character dies all the items on that character were owned by the character at that time.

Its up to you though, but I would suggest telling others if you are trading that you took it off of a HC corpse; incase they do not want such items.

 

[DVAlan]

First off, thank you for the replies.

Morality? Well, there is no morality involved in Single Player, unless it consists of violating the property rights of Blizzard. As far as I can tell ATMA and accessing dead characters items is of no way a violation of property rights. Now you guys might have different preferences for playing hardcore--To me losing a character that I work hard for is just as bad as losing a good item; that's why I'm starting a character in hardcore.

 

[AlterEgo]

Ah, You speak of legality (property rights), not morality. Yes, there is no legal issues with muling items from a HC corpse.

Morality on the other hand is a personal mater. You're personal choice seems to be muling = OK. No problem. But mine is that muling = not OK. So the issue would only really come up if you were transferring the item to me, or someone else who shares my view - though giveaway or trade. If my moral standard is different than yours, I may not want to complete the transaction.

If you never give the items away or trade, it's a non-issue.

 

[farting bob]

As AE said, if you dont trade the HC items in question, it doesnt matter. No-one givwes a damn what you do on your PC, you can do anything you like and we wont hold it against you, ecept if you try to trade anything. Be warned though, if your trying to trade a HC item, even if it was muled off normally when the character was alive and kicking (or slahsing, casting, whatever) people will be suspect. As theres no way to prove you have 1 way or the other, as with all trades, you sort of have to go by trust.

 

[Quicksilver1]

AlterEgo's right. Its all down to personal opinion - but if you go to participate with others in the SPF while participating in the act of removing items from dead characters with ATMA, it would have to be with others who share your opinion.

In my opinion, removing items from dead HC characters by any method other than looting in an MP game is unacceptable, because its impossible by normal game procedures, and from what I can tell, the majority of the SPF shares this view. But its your call. If you want to keep your stuff after a HC death I have no problem with it. Its your computer, do as you wish with it, and I'm sure almost all of us here would agree with that, as long as it doesn't affect other SPF users unless they agree to it and the consequences it could bring to them

 

[NSXdreamer]

But if you are gonna salvage stuff off a HC character, why even bother play HC at first place?

 

[farting bob]

But if you are gonna salvage stuff off a HC character, why even bother play HC at first place?

Well for me, the character is more important than most items. all the really rare uber stuff (if i ever find some) gets muled off the next time i save and exit, and any stuff that there wearing, well thats just plain bad luck. But id be more upset about losing a high lvl HC character than some items. (presuming its high level to to finding / wearing the rarest of rare items) Of course, if a tyraels might dropped and i was wearing it on a HC character that died, i would seriosuly think abotu muling ot off after death anyway, as its too damn rare to let go.

 

[DVAlan]

Whyever would property rights be outside the realm of morality? Respecting Blizzards right to create a product and to protect that product is every bit a part of morality.

 

[Tetanus]

But it doesn't follow that all morality is concerned with Blizzard and the EULA they shipped the product with.
Facts are:
Blizzard did not create ATMA
Blizzard did not mean for a Hardcore character in a single player game to be lootable.
These forums are frequented and moderated by people who want to play the game following a certain set of rules.
This set of rules does not allow for the type of muling you suggest.
The people here do not mind you using ATMA to mule in the fashion you described, but merely ask that you tell them about doing so when trading with them, so they may decide whether they wish to go on with the trade or not.

For someone who speaks the language so well, you are strangely incapable of understanding it.

 

[Kremtok]

I don't play Hardcore, and I think that gives me a small modicum of impartiallity. I also tend to oversimplify things, so here's what I see. In a normal Single Player game, you cannot retrieve items from a dead Hardcore character's corpse. This is different in multiplayer and Battle.net games, but we're talking about only Single Player. Therefore, using ATMA to accomplish said task is wrong, because you are using a third-party program to do something that you cannot do in an unmodified Single Player Diablo 2 game. This is very near the classic definition of hacking, don't you think?

 

[factotum]

The only problem with that argument, Kremtok, is that you can't mule AT ALL in an unmodified Single Player game--therefore by your own argument you can't use ATMA at all, ever.

Anyway, I also don't play Hardcore, but if I ever did (and I'm considering trying it out sometime, honest!) I wouldn't mix and match hardcore/softcore items and I wouldn't loot a corpse.

 

[HBeachBabe]

I don't play Hardcore, and I think that gives me a small modicum of impartiallity. I also tend to oversimplify things, so here's what I see. In a normal Single Player game, you cannot retrieve items from a dead Hardcore character's corpse. This is different in multiplayer and Battle.net games, but we're talking about only Single Player. Therefore, using ATMA to accomplish said task is wrong, because you are using a third-party program to do something that you cannot do in an unmodified Single Player Diablo 2 game. This is very near the classic definition of hacking, don't you think?

the same could be said about any use of ATMA in single player games, so it's not that cut & dried.

Oh, BTW, a little philosophy jargon for the day - the question at hand isn't a question of morals, but of ethics (the 'philosophy made easy' difference being that morals concerns the rules for doing the right thing and ethics being how those rules are interpreted)

 

[DVAlan]

But it doesn't follow that all morality is concerned with Blizzard and the EULA they shipped the product with.
Facts are:
Blizzard did not create ATMA
Blizzard did not mean for a Hardcore character in a single player game to be lootable.
These forums are frequented and moderated by people who want to play the game following a certain set of rules.
This set of rules does not allow for the type of muling you suggest.
The people here do not mind you using ATMA to mule in the fashion you described, but merely ask that you tell them about doing so when trading with them, so they may decide whether they wish to go on with the trade or not.

For someone who speaks the language so well, you are strangely incapable of understanding it.

Let's back up a bit, okay? My first question was if ATMA allowed me to acess my characters after they died. I don't play MP games except with a few close friends, so my interaction between players is low.

Now the issue of trading items that may be from a hardcore character came up. I have no problems though with telling people that anyone of my items could have been used on a hardcore characters. The likelyhood of trading or even giving away items is small pretty nill anyway.

Tetanus said: Blizzard did not create ATMA
Blizzard did not mean for a Hardcore character in a single player game to be lootable.

ATMA is copyrighted by Blizzard North, therefore it is under the supervision of Blizzard. Obviously Blizzard does approve of the program and all it's functions, including the retrieval of items from slain hardcore characters.

 

[Quicksilver1]

ATMA is copyrighted by Blizzard North, therefore it is under the supervision of Blizzard. Obviously Blizzard does approve of the program and all it's functions, including the retrieval of items from slain hardcore characters.

What version of ATMA are you using? :scratch:

Its copyrighted by Hakai_no_Tenshi, but there is a link to Blizzard North. All the links are people who contributed to the creation of ATMA.

Blizzard North's contribution was making D2 which let Hakai produce a tool for it. Blizzard have nothing to do with ATMA whatsoever...

EDIT: Link to screenshot - http://upl.silentwhisper.net/uplfolders/upload7/ATMA.jpg

 

[DVAlan]

Oh you're right, I misread the part. But Blizzard does recognize ATMA as an appropriate 3rd party program. Blizzard allows ATMA to exist.

 

[Tetanus]

You are assuming.
When asked directly, GFrazier of Blizzard Entertainment stated that Blizzard have very little concern about single player muling, cheating, and legitimacy. I believe his words went something like "as long as it's SP..."

Question: Does Blizzard allow maphack to exist?

 

[DVAlan]

the same could be said about any use of ATMA in single player games, so it's not that cut & dried.

Oh, BTW, a little philosophy jargon for the day - the question at hand isn't a question of morals, but of ethics (the 'philosophy made easy' difference being that morals concerns the rules for doing the right thing and ethics being how those rules are interpreted)

Ah, but morals are a part of ethics. In hierarchical order it goes ethics; the branch of philosophy that deals with a code of values that guide's mans choices and actions. Morality is the specific code of values. I like to call it an instruction manual for living on earth.

 

[zatlaren]

I haven't heard of any news from Blizzard that indicates they even know of the existance of ATMA let alone a approve of it.