[2008] Hardcore Frozen Orb/Fire Ball Sorceress; Socialism's Orb-it-aller

Swamigoon

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Feb 24, 2006
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Originally posted by @Socialism on Christmas Day 2008

Hardcore Frozen Orb/Fire Ball Sorceress; Socialism’s “Orbitaller”

Justification

Dual-tree builds keep you self-sufficient and efficient (if you read the Hardcore forum… you’d know I’m all about efficiency/aggressive playstyles …and that I’m Awesome [note: that was my hyper aggressive sorceress'ssss'ss's'ss's name]). Meteor’s great, but too slow for me. I’ll prune the 4 skill points.

The only cold/fire immunes you'll encounter are random (very, very rare) dual enchantment + innate resistance/immunity spawns.

This reads more like a 'review' than a 'guide' per se. Also, I'm pretty sure this will be my newest (best/most efficient) classic rusher, named "Efficiency".



--------------------------------------------
Skill Setup

Ice
15 Ice Bolt
01 Frozen Armor
01 Shiver Armor
01 Ice Blast
01 Frost Nova
01 Glacial Spike
01 Blizzard
20 Frozen Orb
12 Cold Mastery

Light
01 Static Field
01 Telekinesis
05 Teleport

Fire
20 Fire Bolt
20 Fire Ball
01 Warmth
01 Fire Mastery
--------
102 Skill Points, done at level 91 (can’t seem to stay interested enough to take a character past 92)

Shove extraneous points into whatever. Ice Bolt. I don’t care.


--------------------------------------------
Breakpoints

First, learn about teleporting. Understand why these breakpoints are important, then aim for:

8 frame Cast Rate
- 105% FCR

7 frame Hit Recovery Rate
- 86% FHR

Blocking’s great, but ignored in the particular setup provided (and unnecessary if you have a Call To Arms runeword). This one’s a decent blend of wealth and practicality, but know that I was able to run with 1.1k+ damage Frozen Orb and 4k+ Fire Ball without compromising build tenets/safety. That’s a bit extreme; many setups work well here. I’m leaving those out… mull them over and post your setups; 10 points if you can surprise me!


--------------------------------------------
Rich (but not filthy) Bastard Gear Setup + relevant notes

Head: Tal Rasha’s Ugly Face*
Neck: Tal Rasha’s Pearl Necklace (10% FCR)
Body: Tal Rasha’s Purple Dino Suit (10% FCR)*
Belt: Tal Rasha’s Makeshift USB-cable Belt (10% FCR)
Weapon: Tal Rasha’s Phallic Object (20% FCR) <facet/all res jewel>**
Shield: “Spirit” Monarch (35% FCR, 55% FHR)
Hands: Magefist (20% FCR)
Ring1: ***
Ring2: ****
Feetsies: Hotspur

Set bonus: 50% all resists, 25% FHR, -15% enemy fire resist, +15% cold damage, nice life/mana adds, +3 skills, etc.

Net effect: need 6% FHR, some resistances

* socket with Sol, Shael, Um, Ist runes or whatever
** socket with cold/fire facet, 15% all resist jewel, Ist rune or whatever
*** Wisp Projector for Baal teleporters… else +120 mana Bahamut ring!
**** Dwarf Star | Stone of Jordan | Bul-Kathos’ Wedding Band | Nature’s Peace | whatever adds to your utility


--------------------------------------------
Kill stuff

Frozen Orb on left mouse button (but don’t use shift-click while spellspamming) – this never changes

For big-life mobs that stand up to you:
1) hold down the right mouse button (RMB) to cast Frozen Orb
2) without releasing RMB, hotkey to Fire Ball
3) wait for the 1-second-timer from Orb to expire, then without releasing RMB, hotkey to Frozen Orb
4) if enemy still exists, repeat ad nauseum from #2


--------------------------------------------
Level Progression

This one’s a cakewalk. If you want to play untwinked, this is the sorceress for you.

1-18
Start off by building up Fire Ball (+ Fire Bolt synergy) to a level where you can comfortably 1-or-2-hit-kill things in Act 2.

Sapphires where you can, inventory full of blues, manamanamana.

18-29
1-point-wonder the cold and lightning trees; start liberally using Glacial Spike for crowd control while still blowing things up with Fire Ball. I didn’t bother using my 1-point Blizzard at all.

Save points.

30+
Level 30 = 1 point in Fire Mastery, jam the rest into Frozen Orb and Cold Mastery. Get to 20 Frozen Orb / 5 Cold Mastery then decide how much you want to invest in Cold Mastery. Preference call, really. Note: Mephisto has 75% cold resistance in Hell; Baal has 50%.

Frozen Orb from slvl 1 becomes your primary attack; Fire Ball is just an afterthought for Cold Immunes and helping Orb (in between casts) destroy huge-life-enemies (whee 8-player Izual).


--------------------------------------------
Mercenary

Emilio, my Normal Act 2 Combat (Prayer) mercenary who wielded a slvl 17 Meditation Insight Cracked Voulge, played hardcore and never died. Why?

- Frozen Orb and Fire Ball are super fast at dishing out damage; he’s rarely overwhelmed
- A very low damage Insight polearm gave me a decent buffer-zone to teleport-rescue him when he was hit with Iron Maiden
- At every available point, I’d jam a huge-defense armor onto him
- Cold keeps things slower-esque
- I paid attention

For glitching endless Baal runs (Conqueror forever!), I snipped out Insight (someone else in your party will have one, guaranteed) for a Kelpie Snare and put a Blackhorn’s Face on Emilio. Slow Baal means dead Baal. I had a Reaper’s Toll, but I found this 95% slow combo solidly effective, so never bothered testing it out.

Note: I chose a Combat (Prayer) mercenary to quest through the game with (in parties/groups). If all you're going to be doing is MF runs or boss killing, smarten up with a Defensive (Defiance) mercenary.


--------------------------------------------
Ratings
(1 = crappy, 10 = sweet)

Untwinkability = 9
Like every caster, you're heavily dependent on the availability of mana to do the majority of your damage. Like most casters, this probably means beating down "fallen" packs with javelins/sticks/fists for a good 45 minutes before you'll even consider investing in mana potions.

Don't skimp! Fill that inventory with blues and you'll be all set.

Playstyle = 9.5
Ridiculously easy to play since your spells fire in straight lines – just aim in the general direction of baddies and they die. If you’re experienced with proper teleport technique and have a solid enough (broadband) connection to not -need- the supersafety of Orb/Teleport/TK, this build is probably the absolute best magic finding character you can start a season with.

Seriously. If I still did ‘magic find’ runs, and you gave me an Enigma and a 35% FCR Spirit Sacred Targe on day 1 of a new ladder, I’d still choose to build/play this character untwinked over the Hammerdin. Without hesitation.

With infinicast Teleport (slvl high enough + mana pool large enough + regen rate fast enough to let me teleport indefinitely), I held down the RMB and never let go… I’d teleport in place while waiting for the group. Enemy pops on screen = hotkey to Frozen Orb, Glacial Spike if necessary, Fire Ball, Frozen Orb, etc—meanwhile, the RMB is still depressed from 10 minutes ago.

Gotta love aggressive characters. This one’s so powerful, though… you risk getting bored by level 92 with the repetitive linear aiming and Baal run monotony.

Durability = 8
Really, really tough to kill this character if you know your sorceresses. Stick to the tenets of safe teleporting; you’ll do fine. Might be wise to get “Battle Orders” cast before you teleport through the Claw Viper Temple in 8-player Hell untwinked, though.

Magic Find = 10
This character unlocks the full potential of the Tal Rasha Sorceress set without compromising damage, speed, or applicability (immunes). Enough said.


In sum, the milkshake produced by this build brings all the boys to the yard because it:
- doesn’t require dangerously close proximity [Nova, Charged Bolt]
- doesn’t have an overly irritating timer [Blizzard, Meteor, Fire Wall]
- doesn’t have problems ‘hitting stuff’ [Blizzard, Hydra, Fire Wall]
- doesn’t have pitiful base damage [Lightning, Chain Lightning]
- doesn’t require a more-than-double-digit IQ to aim [Fire Wall, Blaze!?]
(that said though, the above also qualify as reasons why you'd want to use 'harder' skills)

OkThanksGoKillStuffGetRichSendCa$h!


Socialism
- achieving Rockstar status, one day at a time
 
MizzouFTW:
Haha! Soc, did you remake Awesome again?
Socialism:
Awesome's still in the 5th iteration, so no -- but soon! I'll probably churn out my 200% FCR Nova/Fire Ball "review" and other painful memories before I rebuild Awesome (again) though.
MizzouFTW:
Remember when you told me I should "Finish" something before I quit? I've decided to play this girl untwinked in AB games. Once she's 91 (Your finishing point in the guide), I will be done with this game.

So thank you sir for helping me push towards a character idea.
Kaleban:
Just curious, and hope this isn't too nitpicky, but why the points in Ice Bolt? At only 2% per level, that's only +30%.

You could take those 14 points, reduce CM to 8 or so given +skills, and throw them all into Fire Mastery, giving a base of 19, a 156% increase.

Again, not trying to criticize, as I'm admittedly a noob lol, and even given Orb's massive AoE, not every shard is going to hit, whereas the increase in Fire Damage almost certainly will since you're sniping with Fireball.

And I'll admit I'm no master at targeting FO so it explodes on the bad guys either.

[edit] Weird too, I was using a skill calc that says its got accurate numbers, but when I max Fireball plus both synergies (Meteor and Bolt each giving +14%) the damage numbers are less than if I max one synergy and Fire Mastery. Is there something fishy going on here?
Sightblinder:
The firebolt/meteor synergies only add to the base damage of the fireball, whereas fire mastery adds to the total damage (including bonus damage of synergies).
Kaleban:
If that's the case, why not max Fire Mastery instead of Fire Bolt? Or do like a 10-10 split or whatever is optimum?
Sightblinder:
Maybe what he has there is optimum? Or maybe he didn't bother doing all the math to min/max the character because it didn't need to be min/max'd to do what was required? If you feel the need to max it all out then feel free, maybe he'll even update the post if you find it considerably better to split points differently.
Kaleban:
Oh I'm no expert, I fiddled with a calc and got some numbers is all, Socialism seems like much more of an expert than I lol.

My problem is I have Character Restart Syndrome hehe, exacerbated by my lack of knowledge when it comes to playing in Hell Difficulty. I don't mind hunting for items, but I don't want to build a character that will be gimped from the start.
Sightblinder:
This build will be fine in hell, really, anything well thought out will do fine. The only time you really need to worry about every point is if you plan on doing Ubers, but even then there are really only a few builds that can do them effectively, and one or two points misplaced generally won't break you.
sirpoopsalot:

Kaleban said:
Just curious, and hope this isn't too nitpicky, but why the points in Ice Bolt? At only 2% per level, that's only +30%.

In some cases, it's a matter of balancing your power. I hated my Meteorb for WSK/Baal runs (what I built her for) because the Orb was so mediocre. Sure my fireskills were completely over-powered, and it was super-fast & powerful when I was able to use them. But about 80% of the time that I spent playing that sorc was with her using her crappy FrozenOrb trying to take out some fire immune monster.

I would've gladly dumped a few thousand damage off of my fireball - and ditched Meteor altogether - for another ~200 damage per shard on my Orb.

Speaking of which, the build Socialism has layed-out here is one that I strongly recommend for a dual-elementalist that runs WSK/Baal. It's not extremely item dependent, having a cold-primary provides lots of chilling (chilled monsters = slowed monsters = more time = safer), and having a strong cold attack usually works wonders against the most dangerous monsters you'll face (dolls, gloams and Lister's pack).

Even outside of WSK/Baal, most of those points hold up. Focusing on a cold-based primary-attack will allow your sorc more time and space against most monsters. And building a strong backup attack in fireball is possible because FrozenOrb leaves a decent amount of skillpoints to spend into your fire skills, so the monsters that are immune to being slowed/chilled/killed by your primary-attack are usually pretty easy to take down with your backup-attack. Likewise, if you can acquire full-Tals set for equipment, you can use this sorc to MF just about anywhere you please, in relative safety and at a decent speed.
Kaleban:
So in a choice between an Orb/Fireball build, and an Orb/Nova build, you'd go with Fireball? I understand the need for a lot of +skills with Nova, but it seems to me that an Orb/Nova Sorc MAY be more viable in more places than an Orb/Fireball Sorc, i.e. Countess runs. I've heard there are many more Fire/Cold immunes in Hell than Cold/Lightning too.
 
Socialism's original reply on Dec 28 2008:

Thank you for your inquiries/posts!

A few sentiments, in no particular order (excepting chronological).

1. Quitting's for the weak; but man, I can't wait to be weak (?).

2. The points in Ice Bolt are to increase Frozen Orb damage by 30-40%. In 'reality' aka practical application, that's huge, because it also modifies the damage of non-hard +skills you have towards Frozen Orb as well. Many who balk at adding points to Ice Bolt (preferring Cold Mastery or whatever) tend to approach from three angles:

a) a listed damage fetish with little actual playing experience ...angle
i.e. "I'm not wasting 19 skill points for 38% more damage, screw that. I'm too efficient at build planning for this malarkey."
...just try it out in actual gameplay.

b) a low/no budget point of view, i.e. 'pure' untwinked and/or not planning for the "endgame" setup ...angle
i.e. "Gosh, 282 Orb damage unsynergized... only 387 if synergized. A trifling +105 damage increase isn't worth 20 skill points."

"Sweet spot" orbs (last Orb explosion pops within an enemy's graphic) launch 16 shards (technically 18 will hit [watch this frame-by-frame with fraps], but the extra 2 aren't actually from the very last 'volley').

At slvl 20, that's more like a (105 x 16) +1680 damage increase.

Gets better. This damage increase skyrockets with +skills, because that 40% multiplies total Orb damage, not just the 20 hard points.

Slvl 32 (+12 skills is a very reasonable mid-wealth presumption) for the non-dupewording character is not just a +174 damage increase (466 to 640 max), but in fact (174 x 16) +2784 damage.

Since you'll have beefy Cold Mastery, versus the vast, vast majority of non-cold immunes, you're doing double damage, so +3360 (slvl 20) and +5568 (slvl 32) damage per cast, respectively. Face.

c) an obtuse ...angle
i.e. "roflcpter LMAoo, Orb is teh nub, blizz clirly pwns u weetahd... lol goodluck... obv can't tppk w/o full syn ib"

Oh hey, what's up, JSP?

3. Synergies only increase Fire Ball damage; Fire Mastery increases total Fire Ball damage (including synergy application). Infinite loop if Meteor/Fire Bolt synergy increases modified each other's bonus as well, I think? What I've posted is the most damage you can get with Fire Ball for 41 skill points.

4. I'm no expert, just experienced (over the years, I've likely "Guardianed" over 55~60+ Frozen Orb related sorceressessessess, just ask anyone who games with me how often I'll arbitrarily rebuild for "optimization purposes"...).

5. The best way to see if something works out for you is to actually try it. You can spend 3 days mulling over a build because you only want to build it once (for some reason?); but if you wanted to, you could have taken three different iterations to 80-85 in that time. More fun that way!

6. You're comparing apples and oranges with Nova and Fire Ball... don't just sit there and speculate; sit there and play!

7. I really don't think any teleporting character needs to be specially built to run Countess/Summoner. They've such little life, they'll die easily to any melee mercenary of an appropriate level (at least matching mlvl for viable %to hit) with a decent (i.e. shopped Cruel mod exceptional/elite) weapon.
Last edited: Jul 13, 2018
 
sirpoopsalot:

Kaleban said:​
So in a choice between an Orb/Fireball build, and an Orb/Nova build, you'd go with Fireball? I understand the need for a lot of +skills with Nova, but it seems to me that an Orb/Nova Sorc MAY be more viable in more places than an Orb/Fireball Sorc, i.e. Countess runs. I've heard there are many more Fire/Cold immunes in Hell than Cold/Lightning too.​

Actually, I do prefer the Orb/Nova build (link), but I believe Nova is significantly more item-dependent than fireball. And if I were often in games full of 8 players, I'd probably reconsider because it's easier to boost Fireball more than Nova, to some extents.

And I do agree that Cold/Light is a less-common monster immunity than Cold/Fire. Going back to WSK, Lister is a good example. He is CI/FI a decent amount of the time, but he can't ever spawn CI/LI, so the Orb/Nova sorc is never forced to use the merc to finish him off. And the nova-based sorc could kick Countess butt a little easier than the fireball-based one, but I agree with Socialism that that's a fairly minor point, since both builds can work well enough for that task.

I also agree with Socialism that folks should try some ideas they might not agree with initially. We can all learn a lot that way.

👋
Socialism:

sirpoopsalot said:​
Actually, I do prefer the Orb/Nova build (link)​

Zounds! I'm pretty sure you're the first person I've ever met that has also played the 200fcr dual element Nova sorceress.

I built a Nova/Fire Ball 200 FCR sorc, east hardcore ladder... ended up killing her to salvage the name because, well, she was a bit of a liability in 3+ player games. Sad, really. Even with an Infinity on the mercenary... ungh.

Damn you, skill "balancing" portion of 1.10; damn you to heck.
norodian:
Isn't the amount of life to low with STR for Spirit and DEX for maxblock?
MYK:
norodian said:​
Isn't the amount of life to low with STR for Spirit and DEX for maxblock?​

Sure would be, and that's why there's nothing in this guide that tells you to do that. 👍
norodian:

MYK said:​
Sure would be, and that's why there's nothing in this guide that tells you to do that. 👍


Well if you read the guide a little bit more carefully that's exactly what it does... as of the gear "Shield: "Spirit" Monarch bla bla"

and as of the max block he says "Learn about teleporting" and in that thread you can find that max block is very nec.

So... I would like an answer of Socialism :)

BTW: I'm not complainging here, just got a little bit curious about that part since I'm making this sorc..

Nice guide btw:yes:
MYK:

norodian said:​
Well if you read the guide a little bit more carefully​

"Blocking’s great, but ignored in the particular setup provided (and unnecessary if you have a Call To Arms runeword)"

There's all you need to pay attention to, right there in the quotes. And thanks for making sure that I'm reading carefully, I'd hate to miss something obvious.

As for a really good question to ask him: What's your rationale for not blocking if you've got a CTA/BO barb?
Socialism:

MYK said:​
What's your rationale for not blocking if you've got a CTA/BO barb?​

When you have 1800++ life... very few hits will do enough damage (1/12 of life) to put you into hit recovery - and with Spirit and a 5% FHR small charm - you're at 8 frame hit recovery (same as your FCR).
 
ScozZers:
Well, you've convinced me. Think I'll go for 200fcr tho :) I want something ... zzzippy ... and since we're not blocking :cool: ... it's fun time.

I'm thinking:
Griffons
35 fc Spirit
Arachs
Viper
Magefists
eTreks

and either HotO or Wizzy depending on jewellery fcr/skills etc.
Um runes in viper and griffons and then 12 (or 15) fhr from charms.

As an easy to aim for starting set-up, it looks pretty solid to me.
I figure with fireball/bolt, higher fcr = more damage and also I've never tried 200fcr tele :D Weeeeeeeeee.

Also, I may try a more damaging set-up on a prayer (undecided on Prayer yet mind) merc. Perhaps eCV Insight, eFort and a leech helm (gaze or something of that ilk). Thoughts?
AnimageCGF:
I completely love your sarcastic approach to the way you made this guide.

Best thing I can honestly say I've read in along time Diablo related.
Geelo the librarian:

Any, uh, rough guidelines on stat point distribution? (especially for single-player, i.e. no Spirit).

More specifically, would one be able to get away with no points spent on Energy?
sirpoopsalot:

Str: 80-100, or thereabouts

Dex: nothing for no-block, ~70 for Wizardspike, or 150-200 for max-block... your call (personally I might consider using Wizardspike, but otherwise I wouldn't be spending anything in Dexterity)

Vit: everything else

Ene: nothing... however, you could spend 30-40 extra stat points into energy without breaking your build. I wouldn't add more than 30-40 though (actually, I'd probably stop at adding ~25 max).


I don't know if I'd go with max-block if I wanted to spend anything in Energy though - that 200-250 stat points that's not in your Vitality is a lot of life. Personally I'd rather have an extra 400-500 life and no-block. Otherwise just about any hit that gets past your shield will cause hit recovery (which will interrupt your spell-casting too), and sorcs have slow hit recovery.
Geelo the librarian:

Thanks.

Another quick question: when and where would be the earliest/best opportunity to start hunting for Tal Rasha's set: NM Meph or NM Baal?
sirpoopsalot:

The orb, belt, helm and amulet can all be dropped by NM Meph, if I remember correctly (the amulet is quite rare though). But the armor is from a very high treasure class, and can't even be dropped by Hell Meph, let alone anywhere in Nightmare.

The easiest way to complete the set is to accumulate some trade-fodder (PGems, runes, etc.) and get one from someone else. :p

If you want to find it on your own, then Hell Baal is really the best for the armor - his odds with ~300 MF are something like 1:700, so it's not that rare. The amulet can be painful to find too because of its rarity, but it's actually pretty low-level so a lot of monsters can drop it. By the time you've found those two you should have already found the other 3 pieces.
graal:

Still wondering about which should be the main skill. Orb or fireball.

A 20 pt frozen orb with 10 mastery and 5 prereq is a very cheap and strong attack, and would leave lots of points for the fireball (20+20+20 just leaving out the meteor). Also I'm not sure about the extra points in teleport.
melianor:

*Sticky*Adding to library* :)
LordC:

Question on skill distribution:

When using Tal's Set, Magefist, Spirit and no skillers/Anni/Torch, you have +9 to fire skills and (likely) +2 to Fire Mastery. So, with your skill setup, you'd get a 2860 avg damage Fireball.

Using the same gear, 1 in Fire Bolt, 16 in Meteor, and 3 in other prereqs, you'd get a 2540 avg damage Fireball and a 5500 damage Meteor without spending any more skill points.

Now, I hate Meteor too, but I just don't understand why you would want to sacrifice an option like this just to gain 12% extra Fireball damage. Could you explain this decision a bit further?

Also: 5 skill points in Teleport? Sure, you're saving mana, but... Why man, why?
LordC said:​
Now, I hate Meteor too, but I just don't understand why you would want to sacrifice an option like this just to gain 12% extra Fireball damage. Could you explain this decision a bit further?​

I can't speak for Socialism, but my Meteorbers used Meteor about 10-15 times all game (read: Act bosses and a couple of Baals minion waves, and that's it)... I'll take 12% extra damage to be faster almost all of the time, and be slightly slower at those few other times, thank you. Also, a synergized FO is a really solid boss killer - so the few times you'd normally use Meteor you're even less likely to use it with this build.


LordC said:​
Also: 5 skill points in Teleport? Sure, you're saving mana, but... Why man, why?​

:D

... I couldn't agree with you more here.
Geelo the librarian:

Okay, so I just started the game on NM after finishing p8 Normal at level 49, and i've been having tons of fun so far...but I am considering switching out my Defiance merc for a Holy Freeze one. The reason for this is that I also have a Druid in latter stages of NM, and Hurricane is turning out to be nigh useless due to the sheer amount of cold immunes.

Since I won't be going for max block, i feel that slowing down enemies is somewhat crucial...more cruical than having an enormous defense bonus and STILL being hit everytime an enemy gets too close. Do you think I should stay with my Defiance merc or would HF be better suited, especially since I don't teleport all that much yet? (mana pool still too low to be jumping around the place everytime a horde comes along)
Geelo the librarian said:​
Okay, so I just started the game on NM after finishing p8 Normal at level 49, and i've been having tons of fun so far...but I am considering switching out my Defiance merc for a Holy Freeze one. The reason for this is that I also have a Druid in latter stages of NM, and Hurricane is turning out to be nigh useless due to the sheer amount of cold immunes.​

Since I won't be going for max block, i feel that slowing down enemies is somewhat crucial...more cruical than having an enormous defense bonus and STILL being hit everytime an enemy gets too close. Do you think I should stay with my Defiance merc or would HF be better suited, especially since I don't teleport all that much yet? (mana pool still too low to be jumping around the place everytime a horde comes along)​

Your defence should be so low that defiance wont really make too much difference.... I would swap out for HF, as it will chill everything (including cold immunes), making it invaluable in hell. Pop him a nice 'Insight' for the mana regen aura (I forget its name) & you will also never need to worry about mana again.

As to the build: Why max firebolt & not meteor? I am in work atm, but as I remember they both give +14%/lvl fire dmg to FB dont they? & the meteor at lvl20 makes a very usefull high dmg third spell, also if your merc is in a doorway poking at one enemy, while 7 or 8 line up behind the first monster (happens to me a lot on countess runs), setting the ground on fire just in front of him for 10 secs at a time for 1k/sec fire dmg is very handy. All these figures are off the top of my head as I said, but am just curious as to the advantages of bolt over meteor?
quangbang:

how should my stats look like without all the extra +'s
MrGohl:

So..this build looks great on paper, and Socialism talks about getting bored with it because its so overpowered. I want to believe him, and he didn't steer me wrong with the Budget Teleporting MF Hardcore Sorc, so I have faith. But.....

At what point am I going to start feeling overpowered? 😉 The TalRasha's set looks great, but what do you wear until you get that purple set of goodness? I ask because I'm struggling to do WSK runs at the moment. And I have to think its because of 1 of 3 reasons:

1. I'm not wearing the right gear (dont have the Tal Rasha set yet, only orb and belt so far)

2. I'm too low a level (level 76)

3. Tactics could be wrong? (kind of doubt its this, because as Socialism mentioned..you just point and shoot orb/fireball in a straight line) :)

Its the gloams? that give me the most problems, which I'm sure is no surprise. I've almost died many times to the alpha strike lightning coming at me, and only by ducking around the corner and quaffing potions have I survived so far. Its only a matter of time now before I die to them if I dont change something.

My skills so far:
Firebolt - 19(24)
Fireball - 20(25)
Froz Orb - 20(24)
Cold Mastery - 12(16)
Ice Bolt - 1(5)
Gear:
+26 res all circlet(Ptopaz)
Skin of the Vipermagi(Ptopaz)
Spirit sword
Visceratuant (PDiamond)
Magefist
Natalya's Boots
Amulet: +19 res all, 27 to MF
Ring: Cold res 19, Light res 24
Ring: 10% FCR, Light res 23
Belt: rare with 17% FHR, Fire res 23

Merc has Insight, Blackthorns face (shael), and Duress

So that gives me 75 res to fire, cold, light and about 615 life (low prob?) with 90 FCR and 72 FHR.

Should I wear a Blackthorns face myself for some lightning absorb and add some resistance charms to make up for losing the +26 all circlet? Or should I just level up to 85 before going into WSK? Leveling up would raise my Ice Bolt up 9 or 10 skill levels but thats about it. Or is my life pool too low to dance with the lightning gloams?

Bottom line, am I expecting too much, too soon, or is this build only "really good" when you get the full Tal Rasha's set going? Thanks,

-MrGohl
jackthelad:

WSK in hell? Even with full tals at lvl85+, gloams will make short work of you if you try to tank them. Teleport away from them as fast as possible.
MrGohl:

Jackthelad,

So I cant expect to clear all of WSK in hell mode when there are gloams present? My goal isn't just to get to Baal, I'd like to be able to clear the WSK to get all the boss packs along the way, and baal is the icing on the cake. Are you suggesting to 'reroll' the wsk until i dont get gloams present? Don't the terrorists win then? :)

I dont want to "tank" the gloams necessarily...just survive them and kill them :). My next thought is to maybe to countess and pit runs to level up a bit, maybe get some better gear that way? I tried hell cows, and I cant really kill them fast enough yet :(

-MrGohl
jackthelad:

You will kill them, but you will have to tele/cast frozen orb/tele/cast FO/tele/FO in their general direction until they are dead. My FO is at lvl26 with full tals, & it is as good as it is going to get without skillers & switching gear, which I dont intend to do. The pits is a lvl85 area, so you can get 99% of the best items in the game from running the pits, & I have been doing since lvl75 ish with relative ease (countess too).
MrGohl:

Thanks Jack!

So really what youre saying is, it WAS my tactics, not so much my lack of gear or level? The FO doesn't reach the gloams across the screen, so youre saying to teleport towards them, FO, and then back right?
jackthelad:

Not so much in & back, as the lightning will reach across a long way, more circle the screen/gloam pack while spamming FO. If you end up with a pack of cold immunes on the same screen then it will be very hard, as you will have to spam FO at the gloams, & also try to send off a fb or 3 at the cold immunes too. Generally, if you want speed in your mf runs, then yes- quit & re-roll so you dont get any gloams. Harsh but true.
amdZeroNineEight:

meteor also shreds hell meph, or anyone whos busy not paying attention

i like this build, the first one i made wasnt great as it had too much str [156 hard points]
i remade it, and it works well for rushing and general pvm
 
Havefaith:

This is of course as everyone else has mentioned a great build.

I played it untwinked, in hardcore until level 76 (I had a single +skill item). And I had solo'd every act and every baal run up until that point with very little trouble, and this is the first char I've ever gotten to hell untwinked that had absolutely no trouble clearing though once in hell. I played a max blocker - using twitchtroe/deflecting bone shield. I had found a wizard spike which probably made hell alot more tolerable. And my merc was armed to the bone with a low level insight and a guardian templar coat which I had off baal.

Then I got one shot by hell Szzarc :(



What I learned:
When your merc dies in one hit - Don't stand next to that mob
jackthelad:


amdZeroNineEight said:​
meteor also shreds hell meph, or anyone whos busy not paying attention​

i like this build, the first one i made wasnt great as it had too much str [156 hard points]​
i remade it, and it works well for rushing and general pvm​

This is what I dont understand about this build. Why put 20pts in Fbolt when you could swap those 20 into meteor, for the same +14%dmg/lvl to Fball? At lvl20 meteor/lvl20 FB & lvl10 FM that gives you about 7k fire dmg for meteor, + area effect. For the packs of gloams above, a better tactic for me is cast a meteor in the middle of them while teleporting around them. They are ranged so dont move while the fire dmg burns 'em. I realise then this build would just be more or less a standard meteorber, but I have put 10 points into ice bolt to strengthen my orb but only 10 into FM. It would still be a FO/FB build, but just have a stronger back-up 3rd spell in meteor rather than fire bolt.
MrGohl:

Jack,

My guess is that Socialism is just saving the 4 extra points needed to get Meteor, since hes not actually USING meteor for anything (he said it was just too slow). I kind of agree that meteor is a pain to play with and it may shred Mephisto, but you can kill mephis just fine with FO/static. I think its just a play style preference. I built a few Meteorb sorcs and always hated them in Hell, trying to kill things with meteor. But maybe I was supposed to be killing them with fireball all along? :) Obviously Meteor is better than firebolt as a skill, but this build doesn't really NEED a 3rd skill.
jackthelad:

Why have points in the cold armours tho? Thats 2 points saved there, then 2 out of CM (with +skills, those 2 are pointless anyway IMO) & there you go, meteor. I think that hardly anyone uselss a meteober as meteor/FO, most people use it as FO/FB, using meteor for packs/bosses, as I do. I would suggest a merge of this build & a meteorber would be the most effective route-

Cold
20 orb
10 mastery
10 Ice bolt
4 pre-reqs

Lightning
1 teleport
1 pre-reqs

Fire
20 FB
20 Meteor
10 FM
4 pre-reqs

Only 100 points, done at an easily achievable 89. With an easy +5 all skills, it gives FB dmg of about 2,5k, meteor dmg of about 6k & about 400 orb dmg with -90% resistance from mastery. With this, you could solo hell with relative ease in a 1 player game, add in another 4 or 5 +skills, & 3, 4 or 5 player games become just a do-able.

As for not needing a 3rd skill, no, really you probably dont need a 3rd skill. But if you have 20 points to put into a synergy, why put it into a skill you will never use when you could, for the same synergy to the primary skill, put it into a very usefull skill that you could use if you needed to? Place your merc in a doorway, a load of cold immunes swarm up to him, meteor on him & fry them all without spamming FB. This works particularly well on countess runs, as all her minions are cold immunes. I also find that if I come across a pack of ranged attackers (such as gloams) casting a meteor in the middle of them, tele-ing away & then leaving the meteor to burn them for a while works much better than attempting to tele around spamming FO or FB, & is much safer too.
manekineko:

I've made this sorc, gear and all (except those boots. definitely opted for war travs for the MF and to lighten the strength load for the spirit monarch), and I must say that it is fantastic. Everything easily dies using just fo and fb. I don't miss meteor at all. The setup allows for just enough survivability and speed to literally stand in front of meph (and many other enemies) and spam fb-fb-fb-fo-fb-fb-fb-fo until they're toast.

I read up a lot because I was under the common misconception that partial tal rasha was better (replacing the staff and helm with shako and occy/other), but I'm officially a convert now. The full set is great!
ScozZers:

I stayed away from Tals set. Mainly because I just rushed this char and plopped on most of the gear from my pure orber. See, this is basically an orber, it's just that it has the luxury of a hefty fireball when you really need it. For those, perplexed about the ommision of meteor and the 5 points in teleport, ... read the guide again. This sorc is to be played aggressively. I will quote:

Socialism said:​
Dual-tree builds keep you self-sufficient and efficient (if you read the Hardcore forum… you’d know I’m all about efficiency/aggressive playstyles …and that I’m Awesome [note: general descriptor and character name]). Meteor’s great, but too slow for me. I’ll prune the 4 skill points.​

Kill stuff​

Frozen Orb on left mouse button (but don’t use shift-click while spellspamming) – this never changes​

For big-life mobs that stand up to you:​
1) hold down the right mouse button (RMB) to cast Frozen Orb​
2) without releasing RMB, hotkey to Fire Ball​
3) wait for the 1-second-timer from Orb to expire, then without releasing RMB, hotkey to Frozen Orb​
4) if enemy still exists, repeat ad nauseum from #2​

Frozen Orb from slvl 1 becomes your primary attack; Fire Ball is just an afterthought for Cold Immunes and helping Orb (in between casts) destroy huge-life-enemies (whee 8-player Izual).​

With infinicast Teleport (slvl high enough + mana pool large enough + regen rate fast enough to let me teleport indefinitely), I held down the RMB and never let go… I’d teleport in place while waiting for the group. Enemy pops on screen = hotkey to Frozen Orb, Glacial Spike if necessary, Fire Ball, Frozen Orb, etc—meanwhile, the RMB is still depressed from 10 minutes ago.​

Not exactly something that lends itself to meteor. As for the 5 in teleport, well, if you don't play hardcore, then you don't need them. Pretty simple really. Having said that, it's nice to have that low cost tp if your insight merc dies and since those 5 points wouldn't make a huge difference elsewhere then why not have that nice buffer?
The point in the cold armour is great for areas like frigid highlands where you WILL encounter mass hard hitting ranged attacks and since you don't have block ....
Basically, you need to to think of this as an extension of the pure orber. If you want a meteorb, .... go build a meteorb.
My orb does just over 800 max without anything that adds to cold damage (except + skills ofc) and chews through screens of non cold immunes. My fireball is nicely effective at a bit under 5 k max (could get more but I use a 3 cold ammy), which at my current 105 fcr is more than enough (still gathering the gear to try a 200 fcr version - just crafted a 20fcr ammy tho so almost there :)) to take down anything that might give me and my merc some trouble. It's also lovely to have on tower level 5 since, well obviously, it speeds things up greatly.
My current gear is:
Shako "ort"
Upped 35 res viper "Um" (50 res then)
3 cold/ 22 dr amulet
HotO (39 res)
Spirit monarch
Arachnid mesh
Dual sojs
Sandstorm treks
Magefists
Torch/anni
2 or 3 cold skillers (not needed but I had them).

Switch is CtA/Spirit and merc is the Prayer/Insight sort with blackhorns helm.

Level ** at the moment and extra points have been going into ice bolt.
Due to the amount of + skills I knew I'd have, I only needed 1 point in cold mastery.
If souls really bother you (erm, they bother most people without max res and some sort of absorb btw..) then tele past/around them, go kill baal and then make another run where there might not be souls and you can go hog wild.
If you want to kill everything, every time, then stack lightning res rather than all res, since once all the other res's are near max or max then you don't really need any more. Lightning is the only element that that will one shot omgwtfpwn you, so protect against it. Also, souls are kinda double trouble in that they will gobble your mana too. Take steps to minimise the problems this might cause. A holy freeze merc would mostly likey be the top choice for wsk tbh, since you'll both have a much easier time against souls with his aura but then I've not used a holy freeze merc in a while, so don't take my word on that.
You shouldn't really have any problems with this build unless you're building from scratch as your first character - which would be like completely ignoring the guide in the first place. You do need a teensy bit of D2Wealth to get this one running nicely.
MrGohl - lose the visceratuant, gain a spirit :)
Arkansaw (Banned):

Nice guide as always, but there's always a price to pay for aggressiveness: the user is expected to possess the necessary skill (if not itamz) to avoid mishaps with certain boss packs in the area of ultimate leveling.
 
Socialism's reply on May 25 2009:

Wow. When did this thing get stickied?! Guess I've been away awhile.

Anyhow; everyone - thanks for your comments and whatnot. I'll answer what I can as briefly as I can.

AnimageCGF said:
I completely love your sarcastic approach to the way you made this guide.
Best thing I can honestly say I've read in along time Diablo related.

Sir, I admire your honesty and awesomeness. Thanks, and high five.

LordC said:
I hate Meteor too, but I just don't understand why you would want to sacrifice an option like this just to gain 12% extra Fireball damage. Could you explain this decision a bit further?

Also: 5 skill points in Teleport? Sure, you're saving mana, but... Why man, why?

Meteor does nothing for me that Fire Ball can't. The # of times that I've thought, "man, I could really use a good Meteor right about now" have numbered... 3. Or maybe 4. The "what if" scenarios just don't come up that frequently -- and when they do, they get solved by Fire Ball fast enough for me not to wish I'd have picked up a skill that I'd so very rarely ever use.

Teleportwise, anything that gets you closer to infinicast teleport is worth its weight in skill points. Especially if you're dumping Insight. I'm sure I had better reasons, but the two off the top of my head right now are: 1) safety vs. mana burn and 2) convenience.

graal said:
which should be the main skill. Orb or fireball.

Orb, then Fire Ball.

Geelo the librarian said:
I am considering switching out my Defiance merc for a Holy Freeze one.

This is fine for normal/nightmare, considering Defiance only shines when you're wearing beefy 700+ armor and no longer rely on walking/running. When you reach endgame, you'll see greatly improved merc survival with Defiance over HF (vs bosses).


jackthelad said:
just curious as to the advantages of bolt over meteor?

(see above)


MrGohl said:
Socialism talks about getting bored with it because its so overpowered. I want to believe him, and he didn't steer me wrong with the Budget Teleporting MF Hardcore Sorc, so I have faith. But.....

At what point am I going to start feeling overpowered?

The build's overpowered with regular runewords and blue/yellow items once you get the 'right' mix.

You're far too low at level 76 to be doing solo WSK runs; consider that your mercenary won't last long enough to be a distraction. Also, if you're knowingly going into gloam-heavy areas without mana burn immunity (read: infinicast) and stacked lightning resistance, nobody can help you. Don't rush! You're probably also not feeling overpowered because you're not casting frequently enough. I'll bet you're not fully blue-potioned-up... since a strong-enough Fire Ball should be putting gloams into hit recovery anyway...


amdZeroNineEight said:
meteor also shreds hell meph, or anyone whos busy not paying attention

i like this build, the first one i made wasnt great as it had too much str [156 hard points]
i remade it, and it works well for rushing and general pvm

Glad you're seeing success. I hate overdosing on stats, too.


Havefaith said:
When your merc dies in one hit - Don't stand next to that mob

Hah! Thanks for making my thread the one you have your first post in. Way to go! Looks like you learned your lesson; fire and forget - move on, forge ahead, improve! Good luck.


ScozZers said:
You shouldn't really have any problems with this build unless you're building from scratch as your first character - which would be like completely ignoring the guide in the first place. You do need a teensy bit of D2Wealth to get this one running nicely.
MrGohl - lose the visceratuant, gain a spirit :)

Scozzers, you're always a source of important insight and information. I do disagree with you on one point though -- the untwinked part. Cakewalk build, man, just cakewalk (as long as people aren't rushing/skipping stages of level progression)!


Arkansaw said:
Nice guide as always, but there's always a price to pay for aggressiveness: the user is expected to possess the necessary skill (if not itamz) to avoid mishaps with certain boss packs in the area of ultimate leveling.

Shanks! The level of skill you describe isn't unique to this build; it's applicable to every (insert fragile character) out there. No guide can compensate for inexperience!



Edit: Someone made a note at some point about wasting skill points on Shiver Armor (or something to that effect). 700+ defense armor + Defiance + Shiver Armor = significantly safer than the alternative.
 
Painman:

I like this guide. Short and sweet, speaks to the way I play a Sorc.

As I play SC, I'd personally forego the safety aspects and go all out for as much damage as possible; I'd also go for less CM and more raw Orb damage (synergy) as I enjoy area clear style MF more than Boss runs. I agree that 2% per lvl from Ice Bolt is not crappy. Orb can be a horrendous wrecking ball when it's given the power, and much more than 2% per lvl would be nuts.

Anyway... nice job. 👍
Arkansaw (Banned):

Yes, but since the thread title starts off with HC, it would be nice to see more tips on surviving the rigors of regular baal running. Right now it can easily pass off as a SC guide with multiple points in teleport (which is possibly not so significant by itself) and strict adherence to breakpoint targets.

Also, I suspect the points in Ice Bolt can be better spent elsewhere (ES/TK?) to improve survivability, which is the No. 1 HC concern. I fully understand the argument for a stronger Orb, but just want to make sure I'm not missing anything here.
Tai.:

It is true that points could be parsed from Ice Bolt to allow for ES/TK use in this build but in my experience its unnecessary.

There are two situations I see people creating this character, which I will address in turn.
First, if you are playing the character untwinked and completing full clears you'll be well aware of your characters limitations by the time ES/TK really shines (Hell Teleporting) as you'll have been constantly balancing and reassessing your build as circumstances dictate. When you get to the point where you fell comfortable investing in strength rather than vitality for a level and pumping fireball rather than orb based on the level of safety you fell with your surroundings its a fair assumption you know just how far you can push the character you're piloting.
Second, if you are gearing this character from mules you should have no problem hitting the requisite defense to ward off most attacks when properly played. At this point we have a character who is not supposed to be hit, much like a Hardcore Summoner, and as such the discussion is analogous to the relative merits of maxing Bone Armor or maxing DV/Corpse Explosion. In the instance of this sorceress, the points in Ice Bolt as a synergy to Frozen Orb (as has been explained in Shaharris' idiotic rambling fashion) are a form of ranged protection. The increase in damage results in hit recovery and a chilling effect that will both kill your enemy faster and prevent him from attacking you. The advantage this build has over a standard Summoner is that it does not need to spend extra points to cover the eventuality of attacks landing - with no dexterity requirement you'll have high life and you are much more mobile than a Necromancer who would be a sitting duck outside of his minions.

In the end as long as the proper play style is used, the only time ES/TK would benefit you is while teleporting and the 5 base points in Teleport in combination with the points in cold armors cover this area in adequate depth for a lesser investment in points. Over time many of the HC sorc builds (even Orb/TK) have moved beyond a heavy investment in TK, preferring to focus on FCR and a balance of power and safety that seems to yield the best results. That said, the character is yours - feel free to customize the build as desired. If you feel the need to invest in ES/TK you should do so, but in my experience it will not be as beneficial as the dual function of a stronger Frozen Orb.

On a more general note to address the general nature of questions in the thread thus far: this build accomplishes its goals in an exemplary fashion. It gives you a balance of power and safety that is in all aspects in keeping with the style of the character and allows you to go anywhere in the game with the combination of Orb/FB/Static. It is not a plodding Meteor build, rather it strikes from distance while constantly moving to avoid retaliation. In order to accommodate the large amount of teleportation required for this play style infinicast teleport is a high priority. This benefits you in battle as well as during transit and in my personal opinion should not be viewed as optional. When you get mana burned and can't teleport away from the gloams lining you up I think you'll tend to agree.

Cheers
-Tai
5zigen:

I think i had almost this exact sorc in Season 2 and it worked well.

Another reason for maxing firebolt instead of meteor is if you are not getting a full hell rush. Having a lvl 1 skill to start killing with is just amazing.

Aside from that, I would just like to throw out there that this build works with lightning instead of fireball.

CB gives you great boss damage at high levels and lightning gives good straight line damage. Though a lightning variant is admittedly worse versus gloams.
MrGohl:


When playing this build solo, untwinked, Call To Arms seems to be harder to get until later. That being said, without CTA or a BO friend in tow, can this build safely do NM or Hell Mehpis runs teleporting WITHOUT a high block?

I am confident in the infinicast teleporting with 5 hard points invested and +skills, but with no blocking would that be suicide to go through NM/Mephis runs to get gear as you play?

If this IS too dangerous, what would you recommend as far as magic finding runs until CTA/Full Tal Rasha gear comes on board? Walking the pits or other areas?

I plan on using this build at ladder reset, but I wonder how to gear it up until I can get CTA/Monarch Shield etc. Socialism said he would take this over a hammerdin to start a season for magicfinding...I'm wondering what kind of magic finding you do before you get that CTA (areas?mephis runs? or do you just trade for the runes?)

PS Ive never been able to figure out where to trade consistently? Do most people use forum posts and emails to set it up or hang out in the crazy trade channels?

Thanks,

MrGohl
sirpoopsalot:

MrGohl, I'm not sure of your definition of untwinked (some people do define it differently), but to me that means using only items you find with this character.

If that's your definition too, don't EVER count on CtA for playing untwinked, because it's going to take you ridiculous luck (or several thousands of runs) to find the necessary runes. Finding either the Mal or Ist is very lucky on its own (2/11 chance for one from your hellforge quest in hell). Finding Ohm and the other necessary runes is going to take almost unbelievable luck.


Yes you can safely do runs without block. In hell or NM. And without CtA. You won't be invincible by any means, but if you're moderately cautious (read: intelligent) in your playstyle, you can be quite safe.


The emphasis for choosing equipment for MFing should be a balance of 4 things:
1. +skills to help your power (+5/+15)
2. Faster Cast Rate to help your speed (63 / 105)
3. Resistances to help you survive (75 fire & lightning, ~25+ cold & poison / 75 all)
4. Magic Find to help your drops (100-200 / 250-350)

... this is true no matter your wealth. So focus on picking up items with those 4 things (a little +mana and Faster Hit Recovery wouldn't hurt either).

The numbers I put in parenthesis should be your rough goals for (poor / rich).
MrGohl:


SirPoopsAlot,

(I giggle when I type that). Thanks for the reply. I guess the part of the original post that made me scratch my head was: use full tal rasha's set, and CTA....BUT this is also the build I (Socialism) would use to start a season. Seemed like some really good gear to be counting on to be starting a season.

So...the first time i made this build, I hadn't even sniffed a monarch shield in my limited time in hell diff, so I figured I'd make it max block so I could at least do Mephis runs. This second incarnation of my sorc, i do at least have the spirit shield in storage, so I'm going to go 156 str and res in vitality, but its nice to know i can still do teleport runs for gear if needed.

Socialism mentioned stacked lightning resistances in his reply to me, is he talking about having like Thundergod's for +85 to res or does he mean having more than 75% worth of charms in your inven so that when mobs lower your resis you still have a good amount?

I guess I dont mean strictly untwinked, since I do mule, but its only the accumulated wealth of one player (and that player tends to die not long after level 78 or so in hell :) )
Also, I haven't traded, but would love to, if I could figure out a good way to accomplish it.

Thanks,

MrGohl
manekineko:

The gear suggested is just that: suggested. He doesn't give the impression that one would have that gear at the very start of a season. The "rich man's gear setup" is something to trade for when it becomes available; in the meantime, aim for what the suggested gear gives until you can obtain it.

I don't mean to condescend; I'm just trying to clarify Socialism's intentions.
MrGohl:
Re: Hardcore Frozen Orb/Fire Ball Sorceress; Socialism’s “Orb-it-allerâ€

No offense taken. Aiming for what the suggested gear provides (FCR, skills, res, MF) is the right plan, and what I was doing anyway. I'm more asking of how to MF through the game or overal gameplan for gearing up(since I wont have CTA or the full tal's set at beginning) For instance, at what point should I start Hell Baal runs(he said level 76 was too low). Should i use this toon to do Hell Mephis runs w/o block but with nice FCR and infinicast teleport? Should I slowly walk areas instead, like pits, or WSK?

Thanks for the help,

MrGohl
makekineko:

With this setup you're going the vita route and not max block because there simply aren't enough state points available to get enough max block and have enough left over for a decent chunk of life. This build relies on FCR/FHR breakpoints and infinicasts with a playstyle emphasis on teleing around for safety for survival.

You should be able to handle most areas with relative ease. Obviously in HC you should be moving more carefully. I do run pits and WSK from time to time and I tend to walk and occasionally tele back to cleared areas when things look sketchy. this character's range and quickness really make it as safe an option as it gets.
jackthelad:

I run hell meph easily with my merc & 75% block with a heater with 'Rhyme' in it. I have no CtA or BO or any high-end RW, just full tals & usual MF gear. I use this build but with 20pts in Meteor instead of bolt (I think I may have mentioned that?! ;) )
GolgothaX:

a couple of quick questions....I just lost a lvl 60 orbit-all sorc today. I died running Andy in NM....tele'd into a group of enemies and got hit several times...obviously I was missing FHR.

I have literally no gear worth talking about. Money is easy to come by. Socialism told me today that I can buy the right gear. I'm wondering what I should be looking for...priorities. Would FHR be high on the list? FCR? Res? Do I need to get a socketed shield and put a diamond or two in it early on? Any advice would be greatly appreciated :)
ChickentMcTest:

GolgothaX

#1: + skills
#2: Max resists
#3: Faster Cast Rate
#4: Faster Hit Recovery
#5: Magic Find

If your just gonna buy the gear get Full Tal's Set and spirit monarch shield with 35% faster cast rate. Anything you add on top of that base is icing on the cake. That should give you plenty of skills, mana, fast cast, and faster hit recovery.

Again if you are gonna buy stuff get 2x SOJs, Annihilus and a Sorc torch!

Next I would look for a frost burn gloves, and boots with resists, but you can easily find these in game and I wouldn't pay money for them.
GolgothaX:

i meant buying from merchants in game
ChickenMcTest:

Go for a Lore (ort + Sol) Hat

Smoke (nef + Lum) chest

Spirit Crystal Sword ( Tir Tal Ral Amn ?) use your socket quest on a crystal sword dropped by a cow in a NORMAL GAME! to get the 4 sockets on it

Spirit Monarch Shield ( Tir tal Ral Amn ) easy runes just you have to get super lucky to find a vanilla monarch shield!

You can trade Pgems for a pair of frost burn gaunts.

Take a pair of exceptional elite boots and use your imbue quest!
 
Socialism's reply on July 3 2009:

Re: Hardcore Frozen Orb/Fire Ball Sorceress; Socialism's "Orb-it-aller"
Painman said:
I like this guide. Short and sweet, speaks to the way I play a Sorc.
Cheers, thanks.
Arkansaw said:
Right now it can easily pass off as a SC guide with multiple points in teleport (which is possibly not so significant by itself) and strict adherence to breakpoint targets.
If you need a playstyle guide, you can likely find one in the Hardcore forum.
Tai., said:
Cheers
-Tai
Taismellz <3
5zigen said:
Another reason for maxing firebolt instead of meteor is if you are not getting a full hell rush. Having a lvl 1 skill to start killing with is just amazing.
Untwinked, this rocks pants off anything.
MrGohl said:
solo, untwinked, Call To Arms seems to be harder to get until later. That being said, without CTA or a BO friend in tow, can this build safely do NM or Hell Mehpis runs teleporting WITHOUT a high block?

I am confident in the infinicast teleporting with 5 hard points invested and +skills, but with no blocking would that be suicide to go through NM/Mephis runs to get gear as you play?

I plan on using this build at ladder reset, but I wonder how to gear it up until I can get CTA/Monarch Shield etc. Socialism said he would take this over a hammerdin to start a season for magicfinding...I'm wondering what kind of magic finding you do before you get that CTA (areas?mephis runs? or do you just trade for the runes?)

Thanks,

MrGohl
Very good points; thanks for asking. Running NM Andariel/Mephisto is stupid when you consider that Normal Baal pays off nearly as well but is 100x safer. If you can teleport NM Mephisto safely, you should be running NM Baal.
Simply put, if you're curious about the gear it takes to get this girl off the ground untwinked, the smartest thing you can do is go play untwinked. It'll teach you all you need to know. The "MF" I used to do on an untwinked roll:
* Drognan until I have an FCR/mana wand
* Normal Arcane Sanctuary/Tombs/Jungle until I have Stealth (Countess is stupid)
* Normal Baal until I'm 50+ allres with decent breakpoints in NM
* NM Arcane Sanctuary until I have an Insight and a Spirit sword
* NM Baal until I'm 75 allres with decent breakpoints in Hell
* Hell Mephisto / Baal
If you wanna know cheap simple easy gear, go read the Hardcore Orb/TK Sorceress thingie I wrote up, it's in the sticky. Or here. Blimey.
sirpoopsalot said:
don't EVER count on CtA for playing untwinked
Quoted for truth. I'm still trying to understand why people think gear is part of a build.
Unless you're building specifically around an item, like, say, Sara's Rift Assassin--- these setups are pretty standard across most sorceresses.
MrGohl said:
the part of the original post that made me scratch my head was: use full tal rasha's set, and CTA....BUT this is also the build I (Socialism) would use to start a season. Seemed like some really good gear to be counting on to be starting a season.

Socialism mentioned stacked lightning resistances in his reply to me, is he talking about having like Thundergod's for +85 to res or does he mean having more than 75% worth of charms in your inven so that when mobs lower your resis you still have a good amount?

I guess I dont mean strictly untwinked, since I do mule, but its only the accumulated wealth of one player (and that player tends to die not long after level 78 or so in hell :) )
Also, I haven't traded, but would love to, if I could figure out a good way to accomplish it.

Thanks,

MrGohl
Our definition of 'build' seems to differ; mine doesn't include equipment setup.
All I did was show what the girl ended up in the review; I never implied that gear was necessary to make her awesome.

manekineko said:
The gear suggested is just that: suggested. He doesn't give the impression that one would have that gear at the very start of a season. The "rich man's gear setup" is something to trade for when it becomes available; in the meantime, aim for what the suggested gear gives until you can obtain it.

I don't mean to condescend; I'm just trying to clarify Socialism's intentions.
Thank you, sir, for clarifying my intentions. You are several kinds of awesome rolled into one.
MrGohl said:
No offense taken. Aiming for what the suggested gear provides (FCR, skills, res, MF) is the right plan, and what I was doing anyway. I'm more asking of how to MF through the game or overal gameplan for gearing up(since I wont have CTA or the full tal's set at beginning) For instance, at what point should I start Hell Baal runs(he said level 76 was too low). Should i use this toon to do Hell Mephis runs w/o block but with nice FCR and infinicast teleport? Should I slowly walk areas instead, like pits, or WSK?

Thanks for the help,

MrGohl
Same as earlier; see this.

Our untwinked CTA group was doing Hell Baal at 83. You can do NM Baal runs for decent xp until level ~75-80, IIRC.

If you're planning on doing SOLO Hell Baal runs, your level doesn't matter so much; your gear matters tremendously. You need to spend a ton of time at NM Baal/Hell Mephisto before you're good to go vs. Gloams and the like.
jackthelad said:
I run hell meph easily with my merc & 75% block with a heater with 'Rhyme' in it. I have no CtA or BO or any high-end RW, just full tals & usual MF gear. I use this build but with 20pts in Meteor instead of bolt (I think I may have mentioned that?! ;) )
Great!
manekineko said:
With this setup you're going the vita route and not max block because there simply aren't enough state points available to get enough max block and have enough left over for a decent chunk of life. This build relies on FCR/FHR breakpoints and infinicasts with a playstyle emphasis on teleing around for safety for survival.

You should be able to handle most areas with relative ease. Obviously in HC you should be moving more carefully. I do run pits and WSK from time to time and I tend to walk and occasionally tele back to cleared areas when things look sketchy. this character's range and quickness really make it as safe an option as it gets.
Flawless. Thanks for your input.
GolgothaX said:
I have literally no gear worth talking about. Money is easy to come by. Socialism told me today that I can buy the right gear. I'm wondering what I should be looking for...priorities. Would FHR be high on the list? FCR? Res? Do I need to get a socketed shield and put a diamond or two in it early on? Any advice would be greatly appreciated :)
Read this.
Off the top of my head, FCR > Life > Res > FHR > Mana > FBR.
 
Micah the Great:

Hey man I really appreciate your playing style and you're a very intelligent person. You're a great addition to the DIII.net guide-making community. I sort of stole your layout but you have truly inspired me to go out on a limb with a fireball/blizzard sorceress.
Vulvacore:

I have one question...

Frozen Orb on left mouse button (but don't use shift-click while spellspamming)​

Why? Can you elaborate?
Ceramic Weasel:

I think the idea is to hold down the right button and never let it go. I'd never tried this until I read Socialism's guide, but it's an awesome way to play with infinicast teleport. Switching mouse buttons is fiddly and unecessary, especially when you can watch Orb on your left click to see when the timer is up and simply tap a hotkey to change it on your right.
Vulvacore:

Ceramic Weasel said:​
I think the idea is to hold down the right button and never let it go. I'd never tried this until I read Socialism's guide, but it's an awesome way to play with infinicast teleport. Switching mouse buttons is fiddly and unecessary, especially when you can watch Orb on your left click to see when the timer is up and simply tap a hotkey to change it on your right.​

So basically, when you don't teleport, you shoot orbs, and when you don't shoot orbs, you teleport? Isn't that a bit of an overkill?
Ceramic weasel:

Teleport everywhere.
When not attacking or moving, teleport on the spot.
When you see monsters, tap Orb hotkey, tap FB hotkey
When Orb timer ends, tap back to Orb, tap back to FB, etc.

What's this overkill thing you speak of?
Vulvacore:


Ceramic Weasel said:​
Teleport everywhere.​
When not attacking or moving, teleport on the spot.​
When you see monsters, tap Orb hotkey, tap FB hotkey​
When Orb timer ends, tap back to Orb, tap back to FB, etc.​

What's this overkill thing you speak of?​

Oh, that. I might try that. Will probably take some practice to master, though.
deathsfire:

hi, im new to D2 and i gotta say its pretty confusing. I made a sorc, and I didn't know what to do, so I looked for a guide, and this one looked good. But, Im still really crappy at the game, and i dont know where to put my points into (str vit dex ene?) and i also have no idea at all what kind of gear to get-.- Any help at all would be greatly appreciated.
BTW, im lvl 24 normal ladder (no idea what the diff is between ladder and non ladder) sorc
Thanks!
Vulvacore:


deathsfire said:​
hi, im new to D2 and i gotta say its pretty confusing. I made a sorc, and I didn't know what to do, so I looked for a guide, and this one looked good. But, Im still really crappy at the game, and i dont know where to put my points into (str vit dex ene?) and i also have no idea at all what kind of gear to get-.- Any help at all would be greatly appreciated.​
BTW, im lvl 24 normal ladder (no idea what the diff is between ladder and non ladder) sorc​
Thanks!​

Strength should be as low as possible, enough for gear with strength bonuses from gear.
Dexterity should be either base or enough for max block (75%), it gets higher with every level up.
Rest should go into vitality and none into energy.

Gear is explained in the guide. Tal Rasha's set is good to aim for and not too hard to get (only somewhat expensive part is armor).

Main difference between ladder and non-ladder is that ladder has certain "ladder only" items and list of top players.
deathsfire:

wow...rly??? i put almost all my points into energy-.- at lvl 25 my energy is at 115... did i mess up?
Kyrandia:

Messed up? I would say it's ... sub-optimal. :p Those ~100 points you've spent in energy would give you about 200 life, so you'll be more vulnerable. This may create be a problem later on in Hell difficulty where monster do pretty high damage. But if this is your first character, you may not (want to) complete Hell anyway. So I'd say just continue with this character and see how far you get.
The first couple of characters I made didn't finish Hell, for lack of gear mostly but also as a result of wrongly spent skill and stat points.
Vulvacore:


deathsfire said:​
wow...rly??? i put almost all my points into energy-.- at lvl 25 my energy is at 115... did i mess up?​

Yes, because you get some mana (and life and stamina) with each level up, so by the time you get to 80+ and get good gear, you have enough mana (and mana recovery) even with base energy.

But as Kyrandia said, since you're new to the game, keep playing and see how far you get, it's your first character so you should get to know the game better before getting more serious with making better character(s).
deathsfire:

thanks! also i can't find any gear that gives me like +stats... i can only find like faster cast rates and + to my skills...
Vulvacore:

Be patient, you'll find it sooner or later. ;)
Darthruneis:

I am so freaking glad I tried out this build. This is a really fun, and yet frustrating (damn you hell countess), build. The only things I'm lacking gear wise so far are the SoJ's (like hell), a spirit monarch (not enough strength, yet) and the hotspurs, which I don't think will benefit me at all.

My question is this, what other boots might you recommend aside from hotspurs? And what would you recommend as a tirtiary attack spell, from lightning, to go with this? All I have is charged bolt lv 1 and then the +skills, and thats kinda hard to kill something with if its fire/cold immune.


Oh, I'm not actually on Hardcore with this sorc, so the fire resistance from the hotspurs isn't appealing to me.
Shanksie1337:

Silkweaves / War Travellers / Sandstorm Treks / Good Rares for boots.

As for Cold & Fire Immunes there is always static field which will reduce them to 50% hp and then the merc can help with the rest.
Darthruneis:

Well after getting a torch and Treks, my sorc is better by leaps and bounds. I still have trouble with hell Andariel and Hell Council/Mephisto, but that is mostly my merc's fault, not mine (I miss the Med + Prayer when he dies >.>)

Oh, and just as a little tip, it helps to put perfect skulls in your tal mask/armor if you have socket(s) in them, extra mana regen is all the more helpful against ghosts/mana burn/ uh... the guys in Chaos Sanc that have the mana draining 'missiles'. Can't think of the name lol.

Thanks again for the build Socialism.
 
Unregistered:

Tried this one on softcore and the killing speed is insane. Used FO 99% of the time while using FB on the cold immunes until I finished hell difficulty. It was way too easy and relaxed. The only thing that can be considered a threat to this FO/FB sorc are those dolls since they hit so hard.

I'm still wondering why people are keen on using meteors, blizzards, and those other slow spells when FO and FB can decimate monsters a hell of a lot faster than those slow spells.

Thanks for the guide Socialism.
Askalante:

Really nice guide ;)
Missing the stats but its somehow logical
Conchord:

Wouldn't you want to put at least one point into meteor for the fireball synergy? That one point would benefit from all the + to skills and would add quite a bit I think.
Kurumi:

Not really. the time spent switching to Meteor could be better spend casting fireball before switching back to Frozen orb.
Cosmic Weasel:


Conchord said:​
Wouldn't you want to put at least one point into meteor for the fireball synergy? That one point would benefit from all the + to skills and would add quite a bit I think.​

Only hard skill points count as synergies, so a single point in Meteor will give 14% no matter how many +to skills you have. Also, this would mean putting a point into all of Meteor's pre-reqs.
Conchord:


Ceramic Weasel said:​
Only hard skill points count as synergies, so a single point in Meteor will give 14% no matter how many +to skills you have. Also, this would mean putting a point into all of Meteor's pre-reqs.​

Ah I did not know that thank you
theaverageidiot:


Vulvacore said:​
Strength should be as low as possible, enough for gear with strength bonuses from gear.​
Dexterity should be either base or enough for max block (75%), it gets higher with every level up.​
Rest should go into vitality and none into energy.​

Gear is explained in the guide. Tal Rasha's set is good to aim for and not too hard to get (only somewhat expensive part is armor).​

Main difference between ladder and non-ladder is that ladder has certain "ladder only" items and list of top players.​

What does "Dexterity should be either base or enough for max block (75%)"? I have absolutely no idea what that means. So you only ever put points in vitality? Nothing in anything else?

Also, what kind of gear should be used at the beginning of the game before you can get the Tal Rasha stuff, like through Act 3? Just whatever seems strong?

/Diablo noob, sorry
sirpoopsalot:

When using a shield you basically have two choices:

1) to maximize your life by investing in Vitality, and leave your dexterity low.
2) invest points into dexterity for the purpose of blocking attacks with your shield. The formula to deterimine your blocking % is affected by your investment in dexterity (and some other things). More points in dexterity = more blocking, upto a maximum of 75%.

The advantage of full-vitality is that you always have that extra life, but the disadvantage is that almost anything that attacks you will probably hit. The advantage of dexterity is that you'll be able to completely negate some attacks' damage, but the main disadvantage is that you'll have lower life because you didn't invest as much in Vit, and 25% of attacks are still going to get past your shield (against your lower life).

Some folks think #1 is better, while others prefer #2. Neither choice is particularly right or wrong, though it's much easier to 'get your build right' with a max-life approach. More vitality = more life = you survive better... doesn't get much easier than that.

Choosing to pursue blocking (via dexterity) is a little more complicated, since there are a few things you can do - like running - that can lower your blocking percentage or otherwise mess you up. And there are some attacks that can't be blocked too.

If you choose to try blocking, it's important to choose a good-blocking shield. A shield with 60% or higher base blocking is a "good" blocking shield (hover your mouse over the shield you have equipped, you'll see what I mean). If the shield you have planned for the end of the game doesn't have at least 60% blocking, I wouldn't recommend attempting to block. If you choose a "bad" blocking shield, and end up spending 'too much' into dexterity and cripple your build because your life is SOOO low from all those points you didn't spend in vitality.


Basically what Vulvacore's saying is that it's a good idea to decide beforehand if you want to try to block attacks by spending points in dexterity, or if you just want to go with max-life (i.e. vitality).

Generally if you want to have blocking you'll end up with somewhere around 150-225 points in dexterity at the end of the game. You'll also probably have 70-100 points in strength in this case. You probably end up with about 450 stat points at the end of the game, so that would leave 125-230 points for Vitality/Energy.

Or you can have 70-150 in strength, and have the remaining 300+ in Vitality if you go with a max-life approach. Without any additional boosts to your life pool from gear, choosing max-life will probably result in about extra 300-400 life, which may be as much as ~40% of your total life if you don't have good life-boosting equipment.



For cheap equipment when leveling up, look for things that boost your mana, skills, and Faster Cast Rate (FCR). Also, things that boost life, mana per kill, and mana regeneration can be very nice too.


There's one other thing to keep in mind: Faster Hit Recovery (FHR)

When a single attack removes 1/12th (or more) of your total life, this will force you into hit recovery. While in hit recovery the spells you were trying to cast will be interrupted, and you'll be immobile too, so obviously it's a bad thing to have happen. Items with FHR obviously help by minimizing the time you spend in recovery.

But going back the shields/blocking discussion, keep in mind the difference on your total life with or without blocking. Because you have more total life with max-vitality, it's going to be harder for monsters that hit you to cause enough damage to force you into hit recovery. Having some FHR on your equipment is a good thing with either approach, but having FHR triggered less-frequently is the main reason why I usually prefer a max-vitality approach.
theaverageidiot:

Wow, thank you. That was so informative, exactly what I needed to know! 👍 That's publishable quality right there, lol.

Only one small question - by "end of the game", do you mean beating the Act IV on Normal, or playing the third time and beating it on Hell, or do you mean hitting Lvl 99 (unlikely for me lol)?
sirpoopsalot:

End game for me is usually somewhere between level 80-90, around the time I beat Hell difficulty. If I really enjoy the character I might count on making it into the low 90's.

I usually plan for "finished" to happen around level 80.
aoetje:

Hello there,

heh this may sound strange, a guy replying to your original post from 4 years ago...but you just brought back d2 for me, actually for the first time with my short experience with d2, I found the kind of build that actually makes this game feel good(I know, its been 4 years and I just found this build? no im not retarded, just never found the patience or the interest in d2 to dig deeper). I tested it in SP and it does very nice even with "/players 8" option on. Thank you very much for inventing/testing/polishing this build, I love it, love the game again :)

P.S. I really appreciate the details, that seem so obvious to experienced players, and yet escape the newbies like me :)
Socialism:

Thanks for all your positive feedback - you guys are far too generous with the compliments... but flattery will get you everywhere, so keep 'em coming! <3

And thanks to folks who've taken the time to answer the minutiae and details; your in-depth extrapolations are some of the core of what makes this forum awesome.
Machineza:

Quick question on the black horns + kelpie snare combo. Isn't boss slow from items capped at 50%?
Socialism:

...damned if I remember o_O
hubb:


Probably. In my experience horns and kelpie doesn't seems to slow baal nearly as much as when you combine one of the items with decrip or holy freeze.

Still. Best dual-tree sorc in the world.
ktchong:

I love this guide. This really should be a sticky.

I hate -- I mean really absolutely despise -- build guides that begin with a long list of godly (or rather, ungodly) equipment. I always stop reading those as soon as I see a long list of uber equipment setups.

That is why I enjoy reading this guide (as well as Nightfish's.) Gear setups are only an afterthought and in the last part of the guides.
Syrannosauruss:

Does anyone run Hell Baal with this build? With good gear it seems possible, but immunes might be a problem.
KillaMike:


Syrannosauruss said:​
Does anyone run Hell Baal with this build? With good gear it seems possible, but immunes might be a problem.​

with tal rasha set and on softcore (aka unlimited revive) its damn easy.

if on hc, its nerve tickling.
FalconGK:


ktchong said:​
I love this guide. This really should be a sticky.​

I hate -- I mean really absolutely despise -- build guides that begin with a long list of godly (or rather, ungodly) equipment. I always stop reading those as soon as I see a long list of uber equipment setups.​

That is why I enjoy reading this guide (as well as Nightfish's.) Gear setups are only an afterthought and in the last part of the guides.​

I second this. I don't need every Sorc guide to tell me Arachnid Mesh is "the best available option". I'd much rather get some ideas about what sorts of gear to look for (best mods for each slot) and even some development gear options, which is particularly useful after a reset.
Syrannosauruss:


KillaMike said:​
with tal rasha set and on softcore (aka unlimited revive) its damn easy.​

if on hc, its nerve tickling.​

How does your merc handle wave 2?
 
Nares:



Kaleban said:​

If that's the case, why not max Fire Mastery instead of Fire Bolt? Or do like a 10-10 split or whatever is optimum?​

The optimum split I found was 15 firebolt, 5 fire mastery at 0 +skills. +skill shift it further towards firebolt, though I would always leave a minimum of 1pt in fire mastery.
snewt:

Really enjoying this build. *Thumbs up*
Spells:

What stats should i go for, just starting out, w/ nothing?
DeadInside.DOA


Spells said:​

What stats should i go for, just starting out, w/ nothing?​

Well luckily because of 1.13 you can respec so stats are alot easier. Early on your biggest problem is mana so you can definately pump energy. Put vitality to a comfortable level and str enough to wear whatever gear you need to wear. Dex can be left alone unless your going for wizspike.

later on once you get better gear you can go for more of the twinked optimum approach, enough str for 156 for monarch, no energy, no dex unless going max block, everything else in vit.
Syrannosauruss:

How do you survive in hell? I'm level 83, vmagi, spirit sword, lore helm, rhyme shield, and magefists, and I get wrecked in 4-5 hits.
Rustox:



Syrannosauruss said:​

How do you survive in hell? I'm level 83, vmagi, spirit sword, lore helm, rhyme shield, and magefists, and I get wrecked in 4-5 hits.​

The key to succes lies in the MERC
- I prefer A2 - Holy freeze merc.

Get a eth bugged armor, do a stone(runeword) in it and woopty, you got 4-5k + 75all res merc. Now if you're rich you add infinity for the -res, this really improves your damage outcome of your spells. If you're stuffed with a ton of runes, get a hold of a simple 4s pike, do a insight, and you won't have to worry about energy, ever.


Now as for the helm:

Eth andyface perfect = Rich solution. - Combine it with a ral rune for fireres/etc. Depends on your needs really.

Perfect tal rasha mask socked with ral/etc. = Decent solution.


-----

Sorcs are not designed to tank, that's why you got the merc. If you teleport correct, you can place the merc between you and the boss, keeping you alive while you can spam happily ever after and do all the MFing you want.

Cheers

Rustox
Syrannosauruss:



Rustox said:​

The key to succes lies in the MERC​

- I prefer A2 - Holy freeze merc.​


Get a eth bugged armor, do a stone(runeword) in it and woopty, you got 4-5k + 75all res merc. Now if you're rich you add infinity for the -res, this really improves your damage outcome of your spells. If you're stuffed with a ton of runes, get a hold of a simple 4s pike, do a insight, and you won't have to worry about energy, ever.​


Now as for the helm:​


Eth andyface perfect = Rich solution. - Combine it with a ral rune for fireres/etc. Depends on your needs really.​


Perfect tal rasha mask socked with ral/etc. = Decent solution.​



-----​


Sorcs are not designed to tank, that's why you got the merc. If you teleport correct, you can place the merc between you and the boss, keeping you alive while you can spam happily ever after and do all the MFing you want.​


Cheers​


Rustox​

I've got a Shaftstop on him right now, and a random life leech helm. Vampgaze/Shaftstop seems like a better choice, because of the huge DR.
NDIII:

Crown of thieves is actually another budget, decent helm for a merc. 10-15ll, 30fr, good defense and probably something else I forgot about.

Remember that dr does nothing against act bosses who tear up your merc the fastest. According to arreat summit, act bosses do 1,000% damage to your merc and if you merc has something like 70% dr then act bosses will do 930%damage which is not much of an improvement a all ~.~
derley:

The gear listed in guide must be gotten before A3+ hell correct? That means all your gear from hightmare ye?

Untwinkability = 9 :)

Neck: Tal Rasha’s Pearl Necklace (10% FCR) 2Mal \ ist?
Body: Tal Rasha’s Purple Dino Suit (10% FCR)* 3Mal \ x2Ist
Shield: “Spirit” Monarch (35% FCR, 55% FHR)
You cant get 35 one unless you got big luck. You will craft 1 or 2 times and your best luck will be like 31. To get 35 one you need like Ist+

Set bonus: 50% all resists, 25% FHR, -15% enemy fire resist, +15% cold damage, nice life/mana adds, +3 skills, etc.

Well thread full of "N Tal Arm \ Amu O 3Mal\2Ist" etc. Poor untwinked sorceress cant buy this ones and wont get set bonuses.

Net effect: need 6% FHR, some resistances
see about 35fcr shield. but you can use 10fcr rings.

* socket with Sol, Shael, Um, Ist runes or whatever
** socket with cold/fire facet, 15% all resist jewel, Ist rune or whatever

untwinked char cant socket anything with Um and Ist.

*** Wisp Projector for Baal teleporters… else +120 mana Bahamut ring!
**** Dwarf Star | Stone of Jordan | Bul-Kathos’ Wedding Band | Nature’s Peace | whatever adds to your utility
untwinked cant have anything except dwarf's maybe.

Playstyle = 9.5
Ridiculously easy to play since your spells fire in straight lines – just aim in the general direction of baddies and they die. If you’re experienced with proper teleport technique and have a solid enough (broadband) connection to not -need- the supersafety of Orb/Teleport/TK, this build is probably the absolute best magic finding character you can start a season with.

Well I'm at lvl80 have half gear you listed and I can kill nothing in A4-A5 hell.
I can't even start farm simple mobs like Eldrich+Shenk coz I cant kill it no metter how much time\mana I spend. Dead merk = no Insight = I cant stay long and run out of mana\pots.
Ppls suggest get some Chains of Honors \ Infinity... for merk ets.. thanks guys.. its 2Ber+, never seen this rune by this char. If one day I get Infinity why I need this zero damage build? Why zero? Because half mobs immune to cold and dont want to die from FB, maybe because of 1 point in firemastery.

Magic Find = 10
This character unlocks the full potential of the Tal Rasha Sorceress set without compromising damage, speed, or applicability (immunes). Enough said.

To get full Tal need to farm full hell, to farm full hell need to get full Tal.
I'm bad MFer? From lvl65to76 i did like 300runs with MF around 90%, bad luck maybe.
I have no skill? ye, push 4 buttons requare a lot.

===
Sorry for whine guys, just got to A5 and feel useless.
Maybe 5lvls later all will be fine, but this is not I expected from this build.
Eggmanz:

Congrats for being the only one to not manage with this setup! :D

A couple of pointers :
- running for the ammy/armor isn't THAT hard
- you don't need ists in your sockets or anything
- for the spirit, until you can get a 35 one, use a 10 fcr ring =)

the main thing you need is the tal set.
Aravash:

Speaking of allocating points, I have a question about where to allocate points if leveling beyond the endpoint of this build or if choosing not to spend 5 points in teleport.

The obvious choice seems to be to boost frozen orb. However, I'm a bit confused as to whether cold mastery or ice bolt would be a better use of points. Socialism seems to halfheartedly recommend putting points in ice bolt, but against non-cold immunes the 5% lowered resistances per point in ice mastery seems like it would be more effective than the 2% bonus from ice bolt.

Am I misunderstanding the way resistances work? Does a 5% reduction in resistances not necessarily equate to a 5% increase in damage?
MYK:



derley said:​

The gear listed in guide must be gotten before A3+ hell correct? That means all your gear from hightmare ye?​

The gear/items listed is part of the guide so titled: Rich (but not filthy) Bastard Gear Setup.
Nowhere does it mention items for untwinked play, except maybe the reference to the Orb/TK guide, which is golden for untwinked Sorceress information.



derley said:​


Well I'm at lvl80 have half gear you listed and I can kill nothing in A4-A5 hell.​

I can't even start farm simple mobs like Eldrich+Shenk coz I cant kill it no metter how much time\mana I spend. Dead merk = no Insight = I cant stay long and run out of mana\pots.​

Ppls suggest get some Chains of Honors \ Infinity... for merk ets.. thanks guys.. its 2Ber+, never seen this rune by this char. If one day I get Infinity why I need this zero damage build? Why zero? Because half mobs immune to cold and dont want to die from FB, maybe because of 1 point in firemastery.​

I'm sorry that you've seemingly misinterpreted the guide. CoH and Infinity are not required for this build to function.
In fact, this is the best build for anyone that doesn't like trading for duped runes/items; it does fantastic without them.


derley said:​

To get full Tal need to farm full hell, to farm full hell need to get full Tal.​


I'm bad MFer? From lvl65to76 i did like 300runs with MF around 90%, bad luck maybe.​

This isn't a guide on how to get Tal Rasha's set. There are plenty of item setups that will also work with the Orb-it-aller.


derley said:​


I have no skill? ye, push 4 buttons requare a lot.​

While being far from a game of Chess, Diablo 2 does require a modicum of skill. From seeing where and how to aim Fireball and when you should drink a healing potion to selecting equipment to fit specific breakpoints, it's far from a skill-free game, especially when considering rather fragile Sorceress builds.

I haven't bothered to write out specific items, because I'm not entirely sure that you're not just pulling my leg here, being a 1 post member and all. So...


Aravash said:​


Speaking of allocating points, I have a question about where to allocate points if leveling beyond the endpoint of this build or if choosing not to spend 5 points in teleport.​


The obvious choice seems to be to boost frozen orb. However, I'm a bit confused as to whether cold mastery or ice bolt would be a better use of points. Socialism seems to halfheartedly recommend putting points in ice bolt, but against non-cold immunes the 5% lowered resistances per point in ice mastery seems like it would be more effective than the 2% bonus from ice bolt.​


Am I misunderstanding the way resistances work? Does a 5% reduction in resistances not necessarily equate to a 5% increase in damage?​

It really depends on your target(s) and other -ECR% items you're using.

IE: Extra mastery isn't going to help against targets that are already at -100% and so on. In those cases, in makes sense to boost Ice Bolt. There's a lot of variations in monster resists; figuring out your common MF/run targets should be the priority.

Thanks to Onderduiker's Monster Resistances.xls, it's a snap to check MonRes. So check that out: http://diablo.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=716009

If you play in a lot of the more normal spots in the game where monsters typicaly have 0 or over 130 Cold Resist, getting CR to level 17 or -100% is pretty common.
If you're baal running or Meph killing, you may wish to optimize a bit.

Here's the resists from the typical high-life or boss targets:
Andy: 66
Mephisto: 75
Achmel the Cursed: 66
Lister the Tormentor: 70
Baal: 50

Other resists in the Throne Room vary:
Serpent Magus: 0
Doom Knight: 25
Horadrim Ancient: 50
Pit Lord: 0
Death Lord: 33
Undead Soul Killer: 33
Assailent: 50
Burning Soul: 33

Pushing CR to level 27 (-150% ECR) doesn't seem to be so bad if you're running Baal. Lister is CI quite often anyways, so he's a bit of a pain for most Fireball/Orb builds; hope you have a decent merc!
alitewithlite:
is it practical to switch out orb for blizzard? and whats the optimum for blizzard synergies/cold mastery?
cornail:
Though I have been playing for years, I have never played a high-lvl sorc ('cause mainstream). But now, as I have been playing SP softcore lately, I decided to build a sorc, mainly because of the convinience of tele. I have to main questions:

1) Is this a good all-around build to matriarch her, have some 200% MF, run bosses, pits/ancient tunnels? The cause for this multifunction use is that I don't want to get bored with e.g. only meph running. i have some poor-man's gear (remember, SP) for her atm: spirit sword+monarch, viper, magefist, lore helm etc.

2) What's the technique to handle a nastier pack of archers and not die? (Can they be immune to cold?) With a trapsin or a fishymancer I have great crowd control, no problem. How it is managed in this case?

Thx.
Aonghus:

cornail said:​

1) Is this a good all-around build to matriarch her, have some 200% MF, run bosses, pits/ancient tunnels? The cause for this multifunction use is that I don't want to get bored with e.g. only meph running. i have some poor-man's gear (remember, SP) for her atm: spirit sword+monarch, viper, magefist, lore helm etc.​


2) What's the technique to handle a nastier pack of archers and not die? (Can they be immune to cold?) With a trapsin or a fishymancer I have great crowd control, no problem. How it is managed in this case?​


Thx.​

1) I've been doing Andy, Countess, Mephisto, Diablo, Pindle, Baal, Ancient Tunnels with this build with ease
2) The archers that are normally close to countess are immune to lightning so they pose no real threat, otherwise its just heavy use of teleport and casting.
baal's-uncle:
i have a few quick questions, i am interested in this build however:

1. I have full tal's set, except armor. what else could i use to replace it? or is it full tal's or nothing at all?

2. What are some other viable shield options? besides spirit?

3.Don't have cta, i am pretty poor, just started playing again about a month and a half ago, am i doomed without it on weapon switch?

4.Being poor, can't really afford to make a tank for a merc, what can i do?
Hapsnykel:


baal's-uncle said:​


i have a few quick questions, i am interested in this build however:​


1. I have full tal's set, except armor. what else could i use to replace it? or is it full tal's or nothing at all?​


2. What are some other viable shield options? besides spirit?​


3.Don't have cta, i am pretty poor, just started playing again about a month and a half ago, am i doomed without it on weapon switch?​


4.Being poor, can't really afford to make a tank for a merc, what can i do?​

1. It works fine without other stuff then Tal's set. You can use Skin of the Vipermagi instead - in fact if you havent got full Tal's i would only use the amulet and perhaps the belt - replace the weapon with a spirit sword and the helmet with runeword Lore or a shako, perhaps even Peasent crown.

2. Upped Viscerataunt, Whitstan's, Moser's Blessed Circle (if you wanna go the max block route) or you can get a Lidless Wall - but i dont see any reason to not get a spirit shield, you can most likely buy a white monarch for pgems and the runes are easy to get from Countess.

3. I don't have a cta, but im doing fine, clearing Andy, Countess, Mephisto, Pindleskin, Diablo, Baal, Ancient Tunnels.

4. Put your Tal's helmet on your merc for life leech, make a Smoke armor and an Insight polearm or a Kelpie Snare for the slow effect (works wonder on any boss, makes Baal cake - up it if possible).
Cyanight:

Socialism have you ever thought of using Trang gloves/armor so you could save 18 skill points in fireball? Put 20 points in Firebolt and Fire Mastery. I know this ruins the whole tal set idea but it really does save you 18 skill points.
CrushingBlow:


Cyanight said:​


Socialism have you ever thought of using Trang gloves/armor so you could save 18 skill points in fireball? Put 20 points in Firebolt and Fire Mastery. I know this ruins the whole tal set idea but it really does save you 18 skill points.​

The way I see most dual element builds, they are for early ladder. Your first mf character. With the build currently, it should have plenty of damage in 1-2 player games to run pit/chaos or whatever you want it for. I think the MF would be more beneficial. The extra skill points would just be overkill.
 
Cyanight:


CrushingBlow said:​
The way I see most dual element builds, they are for early ladder. Your first mf character. With the build currently, it should have plenty of damage in 1-2 player games to run pit/chaos or whatever you want it for. I think the MF would be more beneficial. The extra skill points would just be overkill.​

I agree, MF would benefit the character for early ladder. I still think its much easier to find Trangs Armor/Gloves than Tal's armor alone.
Elyxthaxzus:

First off, great guide Soc! love reading this stuff, often for nothing more then the approach to writing it :D yours was great, good laughs.

My question was...is there a specific reason to max firebolt over meteor as a synergy? looking at the summit (can't see my character right now to verify in game), both give a 14% per point bonus to FB. so for reasons of pure synergy, it would seem to be a potaytoe-potaato thing. Am i missing anything? (wouldn't be the first time :D )

my logic was - meteor and orb are both timed spells. meteor does tons of damage if used (doubt you use the firebolt in this build, since its basically a wimpy fireball), so if you run into a cold immune, wouldn't having an additional timed spell be more effective for killing rotation then a different spam spell that is simply a synergy? that way if you hot those CI's, you can Meteor-FBFBFB-meteor instead of just FBFBFBFBFBFB.

Unless theirs a hidden bonus im not aware of. And ill have to try out the cold approach here. Im used to a traditional meteorb approach (max fire mastery, only a few pts in cold mastry, 1pt in frost bolt), but I do find that I use orb more then anything else, save my meteor (love meteor, really fast killer, just gotta time it right). But I may sub meteor for firebolt unless there's a hidden synergy or reason im missing.
FattyMcGee:


Elyxthaxzus said:​
My question was...is there a specific reason to max firebolt over meteor as a synergy?​

The reason is because meteor requires four more points spent: three in prerequisites (fire wall, blaze, inferno) and one in meteor itself. Basically, by maxing meteor you take 23 skill points to give the same benefit to fireball that you could have by spending only 19 skill points in firebolt.

If the extra four skill points are worth it to you to have a second timered attack in another element, go for it!


-f
Socialism:


FattyMcGee said:​
If the extra four skill points are worth it to you to have a second timered attack in another element, go for it!​

Heh. I don't think anyone's ever actually run into a situation where they were all: "Crap, if ONLY I had Meteor available right now..."
Shanksie1337:

I dunno, it's quite nice for nuking stationary bosses. When i run Mephi on my orbitaller (ex-meteorber) i do find myself thinking I'd quite like to splat a meteor on his head. Maybe not "oh crap" and certainly not make or break, Mephi was pretty much the only use i had for meteor and I stopped running him ages ago, hence the respec.
FattyMcGee:

I use meteor with my Meteorb when waiting for Diablo to spawn in the chaos sanc, or waiting for Baal's minion waves to appear. The burn stacking dmg does quite a nice job of taking down their HP more quickly than static alone.


That being said, I would not use meteor with this build. I'd prefer the fbolt + fball route, as meteor's residual burn dmg with this build is not really enough to warrant it being cast in those situations.


-f
Raver:

Just solo'd hell with this build (75-82) and had a blast doing so. It made everything far too easy.
Discipline: (Mar 28 2011)

It is with great pleasure I am resurrecting this thread. Your build brought me the flexibility required for Hell (bosses, key holders, general lvl 85 area item hunts) and now a terrific build to begin the new ladder with. If there are some in doubt, look no further than this build to start the new ladder off.

My Mfing Gear Set-Up:
Tal Rasha Helm (socketed: P Topaz)
Tal Rasha Ammy
Tal Rasha Weapon (socketed: Ist Rune)
Tal Rasha Armor (socketed: P Topaz)
Tal Rasha Belt
Spirit Runeword Monarch Shield (Less than 35% FCR)
Chance Guards (Switched to Magefist when I finally got 35% Spirit Shield)
War Travs
Nagelring
Nature's Peace

Inventory:
Charm(s) to reach Faster Hit Recovery Break-point. Needs 6%
Gheed's Fortune
Several MF small charms
Torch and Anni for resists + skills.

End Result:
A hardy 400+ Magic Find Sorc.

Thanks so much Socialism for this splendidly terrific build.
Soulless:

Hey Socialism! I'm thinking about going HC this ladder, and of course I'm making a sorceress (as always). I'm thinking of using your build because I've always wanted to make a FO/FB sorceress (as much as FO makes me puke because I must have made at least 50 sorceresses who used that skill...ugh). I may go with blizzard instead, but I can do both because of the respec.

I have a question for you, if you're still reading this. You said in your guide you had a 1.1k+ FO and 4K+ FB. Could you tell me what gear you had to get these numbers. I know that a 4k+ FB isn't really that hard to get, but I'm curious about the 1.1K+ FO. What equipment did you get to get a FO that powerful?

Or, did you simply factor in cold mastery while calculating that damage (around 550 FO, in addition to -100 resistance from CM would be around 1.1k with enough +skills gear)?
zrk:


Socialism said:​
Durability = 8​
Really, really tough to kill this character if you know your sorceresses. Stick to the tenets of safe teleporting; you’ll do fine. Might be wise to get “Battle Orders†cast before you teleport through the Claw Viper Temple in 8-player Hell untwinked, though.​

8 to the most fragile character in the game? With worst recovery and block breakpoints, lowest life bonuses, without defensive skills. To be honest, i dont understand whats the mf-ing advantage of this build over your old tk orber
Socialism:

Yep. Fragile but agile. It's all encapsulated in playstyle.

You're never (once above level 12) toe-to-toe, you have two screen-crossing straight-line attacks, and you can teleport. Badass.

Casters don't have, killspeed ceteris paribus, the same gear requirements as others. Tons of easy equipment options - hell, one of the best caster weapons in the game is available to you for nothing higher than an Amn at level 25.

Orb/TK is great when you need to teleport with bootstrap dirt-poor gear; I made no such claims with the Orbitaller.

No other set offers a more well-rounded endgame MF-to-breakpoint-to-survivability balance than Tal Rasha's Wrappings. And I don't think you can get better bang-for-your-buck than a sorceress that takes advantage of it.
snewt:

Socialism is so sexy. I did the build two ladders ago and had mucho fun with it. *thumbs up*
Professor Nothing:

Great guide--got my sorc to 70 (through nm) very quickly with this build. Though for hell, I respec'ed meteororb as fireball wasn't really cutting it for the cold immunes... but that could just be because I started hell too early.
xXxGrimmxXx:

Howdy Socialism! First off, thank you for taking the time to read this, regardless of whether or not you reply to it.

I am a new HC player this season, and am liking it very much. Although I am indecisive about a sorceress build/gear setup for doing Hell MFing. I won't be in pubs, just myself in a 1 player game, mfing it up. I was thinking one of your HC guides might compete with my IK Barb in the MFing aspect.

I currently have at my disposal:

Shako
War Travs
Chanceguards
2x Nagel Rings
Vipermagi
Moser's w/ 2 PDiamonds
Whistan's
Spirit Broadsword
10% FCR, 9% CR, +15 Dex Ring
Full Tals
33% Spirit Monarch (Going to have to re-roll this :/)

I was intent on going with the Orb/TKer for Mfing Hell Meph, but instead of telekinesis being maxed, I was going to go for an Orb synergy. I know the strength req on war travs is high, but I figured if im investing them, I can upgrade my vipermagi while im at it, since the str would be covered.

Then I read this guide... and it seemed more straight forward...

You noted in your Orb/TK guide that you yourself actually use a spirit monarch for hell Meph mfing.. so I got confused on what to do...

I'm kind of just rambling on now...

I can't decide on Orb/TK or Orbitaller, and I can't decide on the skill layouts for either one...

The Orbital Sorc gear seems straight forward, but the Orb/Tk seems like it has a few variations. Like I noted above, you suggested one type of gear and then use another. Spirit Monarch= No max block, correct?

Help? Z.z Thanks.

I think I overcomplicate miniscual things like this @_@
Socialism:


xXxGrimmxXx said:​
I am indecisive about a sorceress build/gear setup for doing Hell MFing.​

I don't suggest Hell MFing being your first stop. Normal and Nightmare Baal are what will gear you up to get to Hell Baals. I normal Baalrun until ~45, then NM Baal ad infinitum until I'm rock solid gear-wise in Hell: you can get 90% of the most useful caster gear from NM Baal.

Side note: I don't MF. If I did and Mephisto is my endgame (i.e. I'm not rushing or questing through other stuff in Hell), I wouldn't leave NM Baal until I hit all these breakpoints:
- 105% FCR
- 75% block (unless I've twinked up a Spirit Monarch, at which point I'd do a Vitality build)
- 50%+ slow on mercenary (ideally, Kelpie Snare)
- 75%+ Cold / Lightning resistance (these are Mephisto's elemental attacks)
- Decent FHR%
- At least level 78

Your gear options are pretty solid; you really have very few restrictions on building a decent MFer with that kind of artillery.

Rule of thumb on blocking:
If you're dirt poor and have nothing, go max block.
If you have endgame shields ready that are wicked, flip a coin.
If you have a BO Barbarian 2nd cdkey or CTA on switch, don't.

For gear, don't look at pieces individually... look at them as breakpoint setups.

Good luck!
muthu:

tried to kill nm meph with this build at lvl ~60, soo slow and i nearly died 3times. if i do the "moat trick" my FO does too little damage, like 5% per cast,a and Fb does even less dmg... hope it gets easier later....
zrk:


Rule of thumb on blocking:​
If you're dirt poor and have nothing, go max block.​
If you have endgame shields ready that are wicked, flip a coin.​
If you have a BO Barbarian 2nd cdkey or CTA on switch, don't.​

The marginal loss in life by getting max block is smaller, the better your gear(ie stat bonuses) is. Hence the usefulness function is plotted the other way, being more useful, the better your gear is. It also seems a dubious choice not to get it for a hardcore build especially, given the fact that the most dangerous monsters in the game are the striking boss packs who do 300% more damage(+ likely dr bonus forgone by not using storm) to non blockers

muthu said:​
tried to kill nm meph with this build at lvl ~60, soo slow and i nearly died 3times. if i do the "moat trick" my FO does too little damage, like 5% per cast,a and Fb does even less dmg... hope it gets easier later....​

Yeah, for that purpose Blizz is a more effective skill, and a much more damaging skill in general. Also for Andariel runs using the door trick. In both cases Blizz allows for virtually safe runs, teleporting to location aside.
muthu:

well its my first char in server, i was hoping to build some wealth with it :) guess i shoulda made blizzsorc first :D
hubb:


zrk said:​
The marginal loss in life by getting max block is smaller, the better your gear(ie stat bonuses) is. Hence the usefulness function is plotted the other way, being more useful, the better your gear is.​

Life loss - yes; usefulness - no. With BO and high-end stat equipment your hp cushion is large enough to handle what the game can throw at you, while if you're poor it isn't. With BO you essentially get twice as much HP for every point spent in vit, thus you get more from a vit build if you have it.

That being said, I'm not against max block if you're well equipped.
MYK:


hubb said:​
Life loss - yes; usefulness - no. With BO and high-end stat equipment your hp cushion is large enough to handle what the game can throw at you, while if you're poor it isn't. With BO you essentially get twice as much HP for every point spent in vit, thus you get more from a vit build if you have it.​

That being said, I'm not against max block if you're well equipped.​

I don't think you can ever get more out of vitality than you can with block, especially with good items. Stopping 75% of physical attacks is huge, and those are often the most deadly ones.

That said, I've seen enough people go either way and rocked Hardcore with the best of 'em and never looked back. 👍

muthu said:​
tried to kill nm meph with this build at lvl ~60, soo slow and i nearly died 3times. if i do the "moat trick" my FO does too little damage, like 5% per cast,a and Fb does even less dmg... hope it gets easier later....​

Why were you dying to Nightmare Mephisto? Static works to 25% HP in Nightmare, then Frozen Orb/Fireball should finish him off.

Mephisto should have been dead in seconds. I think you may need to review your tactics. :)
 
zrk:


hubb said:​
Life loss - yes; usefulness - no. With BO and high-end stat equipment your hp cushion is large enough to handle what the game can throw at you, while if you're poor it isn't. With BO you essentially get twice as much HP for every point spent in vit, thus you get more from a vit build if you have it.​

That being said, I'm not against max block if you're well equipped.​

The difference in gain is integer gain, not relative gain. The relative gain from BO is the same for both full vit and block builds(aside from the tiny differences caused by different ratio of bo-able life to non-boable from sources like shako or vit build's spirit etc) as BO is a multiplicative effect in the first place.

Also, when blind teleporting, a group of monsters all start attacking a player at roughly the same time. That means that the burst damage output is very high. Now if this group happens to be a bad combination of affixes, it is totally realistic that they can pump out 5000 damage(including crits) in a burst. A vit sorc would be instantly evaporated by this(the 300 extra life from going full vit wont help there), a block sorc has a decent dice roll(+ stormshield DR) to survive it.

Why were you dying to Nightmare Mephisto? Static works to 25% HP in Nightmare, then Frozen Orb/Fireball should finish him off.​

Mephisto should have been dead in seconds. I think you may need to review your tactics.​

Mephs spells can do a lot of damage, especially as a lot of mid level players are using unoptimal gear for survival(after all, theres almost no guides for that purpose). Items that would provide critical survivability cushion like +life belts and armors help a ton against this
hubb:

As I said, I don't doubt the effectiveness of a max block build.


zrk said:​
[/INDENT]The difference in gain is integer gain, not relative gain. The relative gain from BO is the same for both full vit and block builds[/INDENT]

I'm fully aware. This changes absolutely nothing regarding the point I'm making ;)
Sigh:

What bonuses will I get if I just wear Tal Rasha's Helm, Belt, & Wand? I have Spirit, Lore, & Goldwrap in those places so I'm assuming I'm better off keeping those rather than having a partial set bonus, but I wanted to check and see if there was something stronger.
Entwilighter:

You will get the following set bonuses:

Replenish Life 10
65% Better Chance of Finding Magic Items

10% Faster Cast Rate (belt)
60 Defense (belt)

-15 to Enemy Fire Resistance (stave)
+1 to Sorceress Skills (stave)

That's on top of the items themselves. I didn't equip the helm until I could equip the armor. I was using PCrown and then Shako until then. Lore would work fine too. Spirit would also be fine instead of the Lidless Eye, depending on your Mana/FCR/FHR resistance needs, etc.

What I mean is, the full set bonus is pretty far superior.
Kretschmer:

How much slower is FO/CL than FO/FB?

(Utwinked, so assuming spirits/vipermagi/etc for leveling.)
SpecterX:

Hi,

First off, thank you so much for the insightful post! I started D2 again for the first time since 2001, and after screwing up my build a bit (especially being completely untwinked) I have been using this as a guide and I wanted to thank the creator and all others for the helpful comments.

I'm looking for some help since I am struggling pretty mightily for gear. I understand this build isn't based off the gear, but I figured I'd have a lot better than I have currently, and I wouldn't drain mana as quickly as I do.

Level: 76

My Gear Setup is as follows:
Head: "Lore" Circlet
Weapon: "Spirit" Crystal Sword
Shield: "Rhyme" Kite Shield
Armor: "Stealth" Serpent Armor
Hands: The Hand of Broc
Ring1: Manald Heal
Ring2: Havoc Gyre - +30 - Fire Res +5HealthReplen +1Mana after Kill +8 MF
Belt: Bladebuckle
Feet: Infernostride
Amulet: Havoc Heart - +1Sorc Skills, +9% Light/Fire/Pois Res, +33% Cold Res +4HealthReplen

Obviously there are things that need to be replaced here.

My Skill Setup is as follows:
----Not including +Skills from armor
Fire Skills:
Firebolt: 10
Fireball: 20
Warmth: 3
Inferno/Blaze/Firewall: 1
Meteor: 3
Fire Mastery: 1
----I was going Meteor/Orb before I found this build which I tend to enjoy a lot more

Cold Skills:
Ice Bolt: 4
Shiver Armor: 1
Pre-Reqs for Orb: 1
Frozen Orb: 20
Cold Mastery: 10

Lightning Skills:
Static Field: 1
TK: 1
Teleport: 1

Attribute Points:
----These are WITH bonuses
Strength:140
Dexterity:41
Vitality:242
Energy:90

Yes, I know a respec would be good, but I'm not sure how much strength I should put in as a base, I've read prepare for your highest needed strength item, which I am preparing for the Monarch Shield. My Energy is a bit higher from lower level spending and because with my gear it helps a bit.

Right now, I haven't killed NM Baal because I try to do group Baal Runs on Bnet. Solo, I can safely TP to NM Andy, Kind-of Safely TP to NM Meph (sometimes the Stygian Dolls rock me especially if I can't find Lvl3 quickly - loss of too much mana from teleporting to the wrong area).

I have either had REALLY bad luck (I finally found a 4 socket Scythe, but the game dropped and didn't save it so I still don't have Insight on my Merc) or I'm doing something wrong. Should I be soloing NM Baal now? Where should I be going. This gear seems very subpar for where I am.

Please let me know. Thank again for all the help.
Krupa:

my 0.02$:

having rhyme without actually using block seems wasted imo. high blockrate makes teleporting on a low fcr much safer. to achieve that, i´d make a rhyme in a boneshield or tower shield. the loss of life is easily compensated by blokcing 75% of all physical attacks.
otherwise i´d use a splendor shield with skill and fcr.
the hand of broc is not very useful. u should either try to get magefists (skill, fcr, mane regen), frostburns for the increased mana or craft caster gloves, if those are unavailable
i´d also try to craft a caster belt. it will probably do u more good than the bladebuckle. fhr is more than coverd by the spirit sword. for armor i´d switch to lionheart. with its huge stat and res bonus its very useful. another fine choice would be smoke (that is if skin of the vipermagi is unavailable)
SpecterX:


Krupa said:​
my 0.02$:​

having rhyme without actually using block seems wasted imo. high blockrate makes teleporting on a low fcr much safer. to achieve that, i´d make a rhyme in a boneshield or tower shield. the loss of life is easily compensated by blokcing 75% of all physical attacks.​
otherwise i´d use a splendor shield with skill and fcr.​
the hand of broc is not very useful. u should either try to get magefists (skill, fcr, mane regen), frostburns for the increased mana or craft caster gloves, if those are unavailable​
i´d also try to craft a caster belt. it will probably do u more good than the bladebuckle. fhr is more than coverd by the spirit sword. for armor i´d switch to lionheart. with its huge stat and res bonus its very useful. another fine choice would be smoke (that is if skin of the vipermagi is unavailable)​

I agree with the Smoke/Lionheart, however, referring to my prior post, I have been incredibly unlucky and my highest Rune at the moment is HEL. Magefist and Frostburns fall under the unlucky category.

I will start looking for a Bone Shield/Tower Shield with two sockets so I can put Rhyme in it. How high do I need to respec my Dexterity to so that I can be max block. I've read 75%, but how many points of Dexterity is that actually?

Thanks for the tips, I'll start running Countess again, maybe I'll get something other than normal runes.
zrk:


SpecterX said:​
I agree with the Smoke/Lionheart, however, referring to my prior post, I have been incredibly unlucky and my highest Rune at the moment is HEL. Magefist and Frostburns fall under the unlucky category.​

I will start looking for a Bone Shield/Tower Shield with two sockets so I can put Rhyme in it. How high do I need to respec my Dexterity to so that I can be max block. I've read 75%, but how many points of Dexterity is that actually?​

Thanks for the tips, I'll start running Countess again, maybe I'll get something other than normal runes.​

You might want to calculate ur stats for stormshield because thats the end-game max blocker de-facto shield anyway.
darkstarhub:

I had found way more uniques than you have by the time I was at level 76. I had 3 pul runes drop by level 76 and a ton of unique boots, gloves, armor, belts, and helms. You should do a respec to put the wasted points in meteor and prereqs into orb, cold mastery, fire mastery, or fire bolt. You would be better off putting points in Cold Mastery before Ice bolt, as the synergy is only 2% for Ice bolt. How many of your respecs have you used? Try to find some Magic find gear and do some Andy, Pindle, Shenk, Eldritch, and countess runs. I found loads of uniques from Andy. Look for a decent 4 socket armor and put 4 PTopaz in it. I used a Gothic Plate, then an Archon Plate, and then I finally found a Skullders. If you need dex numbers for shields, look in the Meteorb guide thread that is in the sorc forum with this guide, it is the best write up I have ever seen for a sorceress even if you are not going with meteorb. I went with the orbitaller with my second respec and I am doing decent in hell. I am at level 83 now and I can tank anything in nightmare when I went back for a little bit to farm meph a little more.
SpecterX:


darkstarhub said:​
I had found way more uniques than you have by the time I was at level 76. I had 3 pul runes drop by level 76 and a ton of unique boots, gloves, armor, belts, and helms. You should do a respec to put the wasted points in meteor and prereqs into orb, cold mastery, fire mastery, or fire bolt. You would be better off putting points in Cold Mastery before Ice bolt, as the synergy is only 2% for Ice bolt. How many of your respecs have you used? Try to find some Magic find gear and do some Andy, Pindle, Shenk, Eldritch, and countess runs. I found loads of uniques from Andy. Look for a decent 4 socket armor and put 4 PTopaz in it. I used a Gothic Plate, then an Archon Plate, and then I finally found a Skullders. If you need dex numbers for shields, look in the Meteorb guide thread that is in the sorc forum with this guide, it is the best write up I have ever seen for a sorceress even if you are not going with meteorb. I went with the orbitaller with my second respec and I am doing decent in hell. I am at level 83 now and I can tank anything in nightmare when I went back for a little bit to farm meph a little more.​

Don't get me wrong, I have found a good bit of uniques. However, these uniques are useless to me, I have found at least 3 Dark Clan Crudgels on 3 different Andy Runs, I've found my Manald Heal from Andy, found 3 Cathan's Rings from 3 different Andy Runs, found a ton of unique Xbows/Bows, lots of Barbarian Equipment. The Magefist/FrostBurns, Skin of Vipermagi (until today I got it from Meph) and other useful Uniques/Sets have eluded me. It's one of the reasons at 76 I am still using The Hand of Broc because I haven't found anything, not even a Rare that is better.

My luck on Socketed items (2 socket Grim Shield, 4 socket any-type Polearm, 4 Socket Armor) and Runes however have been completely unlucky. Highest, I've seen is a Ko.

I have made a "MF Set" which is pretty awful, but I use it for Andy/Shenk (Meph is a little more risky because of what I lose), I have a 3 Socket Gothic Plate with PTopaz 2 Socket Helm with PTopaz a 20% Ring and a 26% Ammy.

I'll take a look at that post and see what I can find so I can use my respec wisely for the stat points. Thanks for the advice.
Eoanthropus:

An excellent build, my Orbitaller became my first character to ever finish Hell.

Since many monsters in Hell have some degree of Cold resistance, I would think that shaving a few points of Ice Bolt and putting them into Cold Mastery would be a good idea, since if I understood correctly, Cold Mastery will yield more damage for Orb than Icebolt synergy until the target reaches -100 cold resistance. Any thoughts?

My apologies if this has been said before, but I don't feel like ploughing through 16 pages.

Thanks for the great build Socialism :)
peddroelm:

Giving Diablo II a new go after a few years break...

Going to attempt a untwinked Hardcore singleplayer run using the dual element sorc - FO/FB.

The way I understand this guide this is to be a glass cannon build - kind of stealth bomber - droping the payload and changing position before any possible retaliation. Always changing position and keeping the merc between the frail sorc and danger...[speed, mobility, high damage from range].

ATM I've made it to Act2 [lvl 23] without hicups. The only pieces of gear worth mentioning are two 10 FCR magic rings and the +3 FB +1 Warmth shopped staff. FB killing speed is great even with /players 8.

Lvl 1 Teleport's mana cost is exorbitant[rare convenience//emergency uses] so I'm still a little way of the trademark modbility this build emphasises. Hopefully I'll get there if I don't manage to kill her first :)..

Will have to produce better gear soon[Leaf,Lore,Stealth,..] as for the moment Duriel looks mighty threatening ...
Mixtures:

Great build. With full tal's set this build has given me no problems when dealing with Hell. Thanks again!
mrhaut:

yea this build is great! Just respec into this from a pure frozen orb, it absolutely owns in all act1-act3 lvl85 areas!
peddroelm:


peddroelm said:​
Going to attempt a untwinked Hardcore singleplayer run using the dual element sorc - FO/FB.​

Will have to produce better gear soon[Leaf,Lore,Stealth,..] as for the moment Duriel looks mighty threatening ...​

Made it to lvl 77 so far [act 1 hell].

Drilled NM andariel&mef for some equipment ... Occulus,Duriel's shell, wristan's guard, magefists, Tal Rasha's Helm&Orb, magic ring 10 FCR/120 mana, GC 12 FHR/+48 mana ...

800+ life, 500+ mana, good block, maxed NM rezists, decent FCR - NM is no longer a challenge even in players 8. On hell Act 1 progress was slow..

Will have to drill NM Andy and Mef some more before venturing into hell...In NM you can sacrifice FCR in order to get other critical stuff such as rezists or + cold skills damage ...
On hell you need full rezists + full power of both FO and FB. FB NEEDS decent FCR to be effective - the need for good equipment is much higher...


[the repetitive mf runs quickly bore me so I also started a untwinked avenger run ...it pains me to sell all those juicy avenger items found by the sorc but he must fend for himself ]
SpecterX:

I have been running this build and LOVE it.

Question about it though, I'm 87 with a friend of mine (barb 86) and we just tried (key word there) our first Uber Run, and well I started the run 1/2 through 87 and ended beginning at 87 and started with 1.5M ended with 250K.

We did finish with help from a Pally friend. I don't think we would have been able to do it without him. I digress, how can I maximize this build to work for ubers (or can I)? I find ubers incredibly challenging, and much more fun that doing chaos/baal runs with bots. Any thoughts? Would love to know.

Gear:
Full Tal's
Rings: Dwarf Star/Raven Frost
Boots: Infernostride
Gloves: Magefist

P.S. I cant tell you how many times my merc died in there.
peddroelm:


SpecterX said:​
...our first Uber Run, and well I started the run 1/2 through 87 and ended beginning at 87 and started with 1.5M ended with 250K.​

We did finish with help from a Pally friend. I don't think we would have been able to do it without him...​

This is not a build for taking on the Ubers...
wannsolo:

what about stat points? i didn't see a section for that... should I get strength up to a necessary level for gear and then the rest into vitality and mana?
Pyrotechnician:

For any sorc its always going to be just enough str to equip your gear. Dex is completely dependent on if your going for max block, if your using spirit monarch like the setup used in the guide I would not recommend it as it would take way to much dex. Vitality is your main point for stat points, every extra point you have should go here. Energy is usually base if you have a sufficient gear setup, especially if you have insight on your mercenary as this is usually an infinite supply of mana.
 
melianor:

This is definitely also a nice choice for ladder reset. Blizzballer or FO/FB? What shall it be?
Azaar:


Cyanight said:​
Socialism have you ever thought of using Trang gloves/armor so you could save 18 skill points in fireball? Put 20 points in Firebolt and Fire Mastery. I know this ruins the whole tal set idea but it really does save you 18 skill points.​

I'm sorta surprised no one caught this or said anything, but Trang's set bonuses doesn't work that way for the Sorceress, as noted in the Trang-Oul's Avatar wiki entry: because Fire Ball is a Sorceress skill, it gets capped at +3 when worn by a Sorceress, so that particular tactic doesn't work. So actually, it costs you +3 to all skills for a +3 Fire Ball -- +all skills trumps +single skill virtually every time.

Admittedly, I'm in a fortunate position to have most of the suggested equipment (aside from the Spirit monarch, Tal Rasha's Guardianship and the ever-elusive SoJ) on hand, courtesy of ATMA and a level 75 frost zealot pally. Hell is still too rough for him, alas, so I'll have to look for alternatives to prepare for when I start this sorceress up.

I plan to make the build as suggested, with the caveats that I take out two points from Teleport -- these will go into Enchant (for prereq purposes) and Hydra.

Yes, Hydra's damage will suck, it won't always hit, blah blah blah. The miss factor can be mitigated with a good merc and having Hydra between you and your merc (and the mobs) -- it's a matter of tactical placement. Even so, the damage isn't the important thing: the single biggest utility factor for Hydra is actually in scouting ahead for recon purposes. Your "spatial awareness", as it were, should be effectively doubled, depending on the situation and location, and should give you that much more time to be ready with FO/FB. I'm gonna give it a shot and see how it works, but I don't think it will impede the overall build in any way.
 
Originally posted by @Socialism on Christmas Day 2008

Hardcore Frozen Orb/Fire Ball Sorceress; Socialism’s “Orbitaller”

Justification

Dual-tree builds keep you self-sufficient and efficient (if you read the Hardcore forum… you’d know I’m all about efficiency/aggressive playstyles …and that I’m Awesome [note: that was my hyper aggressive sorceress'ssss'ss's'ss's name]). Meteor’s great, but too slow for me. I’ll prune the 4 skill points.

The only cold/fire immunes you'll encounter are random (very, very rare) dual enchantment + innate resistance/immunity spawns.

This reads more like a 'review' than a 'guide' per se. Also, I'm pretty sure this will be my newest (best/most efficient) classic rusher, named "Efficiency".



--------------------------------------------
Skill Setup

Ice
15 Ice Bolt
01 Frozen Armor
01 Shiver Armor
01 Ice Blast
01 Frost Nova
01 Glacial Spike
01 Blizzard
20 Frozen Orb
12 Cold Mastery

Light
01 Static Field
01 Telekinesis
05 Teleport

Fire
20 Fire Bolt
20 Fire Ball
01 Warmth
01 Fire Mastery
--------
102 Skill Points, done at level 91 (can’t seem to stay interested enough to take a character past 92)

Shove extraneous points into whatever. Ice Bolt. I don’t care.


--------------------------------------------
Breakpoints

First, learn about teleporting. Understand why these breakpoints are important, then aim for:

8 frame Cast Rate
- 105% FCR

7 frame Hit Recovery Rate
- 86% FHR

Blocking’s great, but ignored in the particular setup provided (and unnecessary if you have a Call To Arms runeword). This one’s a decent blend of wealth and practicality, but know that I was able to run with 1.1k+ damage Frozen Orb and 4k+ Fire Ball without compromising build tenets/safety. That’s a bit extreme; many setups work well here. I’m leaving those out… mull them over and post your setups; 10 points if you can surprise me!


--------------------------------------------
Rich (but not filthy) Bastard Gear Setup + relevant notes

Head: Tal Rasha’s Ugly Face*
Neck: Tal Rasha’s Pearl Necklace (10% FCR)
Body: Tal Rasha’s Purple Dino Suit (10% FCR)*
Belt: Tal Rasha’s Makeshift USB-cable Belt (10% FCR)
Weapon: Tal Rasha’s Phallic Object (20% FCR) <facet/all res jewel>**
Shield: “Spirit” Monarch (35% FCR, 55% FHR)
Hands: Magefist (20% FCR)
Ring1: ***
Ring2: ****
Feetsies: Hotspur

Set bonus: 50% all resists, 25% FHR, -15% enemy fire resist, +15% cold damage, nice life/mana adds, +3 skills, etc.

Net effect: need 6% FHR, some resistances

* socket with Sol, Shael, Um, Ist runes or whatever
** socket with cold/fire facet, 15% all resist jewel, Ist rune or whatever
*** Wisp Projector for Baal teleporters… else +120 mana Bahamut ring!
**** Dwarf Star | Stone of Jordan | Bul-Kathos’ Wedding Band | Nature’s Peace | whatever adds to your utility


--------------------------------------------
Kill stuff

Frozen Orb on left mouse button (but don’t use shift-click while spellspamming) – this never changes

For big-life mobs that stand up to you:
1) hold down the right mouse button (RMB) to cast Frozen Orb
2) without releasing RMB, hotkey to Fire Ball
3) wait for the 1-second-timer from Orb to expire, then without releasing RMB, hotkey to Frozen Orb
4) if enemy still exists, repeat ad nauseum from #2


--------------------------------------------
Level Progression

This one’s a cakewalk. If you want to play untwinked, this is the sorceress for you.

1-18
Start off by building up Fire Ball (+ Fire Bolt synergy) to a level where you can comfortably 1-or-2-hit-kill things in Act 2.

Sapphires where you can, inventory full of blues, manamanamana.

18-29
1-point-wonder the cold and lightning trees; start liberally using Glacial Spike for crowd control while still blowing things up with Fire Ball. I didn’t bother using my 1-point Blizzard at all.

Save points.

30+
Level 30 = 1 point in Fire Mastery, jam the rest into Frozen Orb and Cold Mastery. Get to 20 Frozen Orb / 5 Cold Mastery then decide how much you want to invest in Cold Mastery. Preference call, really. Note: Mephisto has 75% cold resistance in Hell; Baal has 50%.

Frozen Orb from slvl 1 becomes your primary attack; Fire Ball is just an afterthought for Cold Immunes and helping Orb (in between casts) destroy huge-life-enemies (whee 8-player Izual).


--------------------------------------------
Mercenary

Emilio, my Normal Act 2 Combat (Prayer) mercenary who wielded a slvl 17 Meditation Insight Cracked Voulge, played hardcore and never died. Why?

- Frozen Orb and Fire Ball are super fast at dishing out damage; he’s rarely overwhelmed
- A very low damage Insight polearm gave me a decent buffer-zone to teleport-rescue him when he was hit with Iron Maiden
- At every available point, I’d jam a huge-defense armor onto him
- Cold keeps things slower-esque
- I paid attention

For glitching endless Baal runs (Conqueror forever!), I snipped out Insight (someone else in your party will have one, guaranteed) for a Kelpie Snare and put a Blackhorn’s Face on Emilio. Slow Baal means dead Baal. I had a Reaper’s Toll, but I found this 95% slow combo solidly effective, so never bothered testing it out.

Note: I chose a Combat (Prayer) mercenary to quest through the game with (in parties/groups). If all you're going to be doing is MF runs or boss killing, smarten up with a Defensive (Defiance) mercenary.


--------------------------------------------
Ratings
(1 = crappy, 10 = sweet)

Untwinkability = 9
Like every caster, you're heavily dependent on the availability of mana to do the majority of your damage. Like most casters, this probably means beating down "fallen" packs with javelins/sticks/fists for a good 45 minutes before you'll even consider investing in mana potions.

Don't skimp! Fill that inventory with blues and you'll be all set.

Playstyle = 9.5
Ridiculously easy to play since your spells fire in straight lines – just aim in the general direction of baddies and they die. If you’re experienced with proper teleport technique and have a solid enough (broadband) connection to not -need- the supersafety of Orb/Teleport/TK, this build is probably the absolute best magic finding character you can start a season with.

Seriously. If I still did ‘magic find’ runs, and you gave me an Enigma and a 35% FCR Spirit Sacred Targe on day 1 of a new ladder, I’d still choose to build/play this character untwinked over the Hammerdin. Without hesitation.

With infinicast Teleport (slvl high enough + mana pool large enough + regen rate fast enough to let me teleport indefinitely), I held down the RMB and never let go… I’d teleport in place while waiting for the group. Enemy pops on screen = hotkey to Frozen Orb, Glacial Spike if necessary, Fire Ball, Frozen Orb, etc—meanwhile, the RMB is still depressed from 10 minutes ago.

Gotta love aggressive characters. This one’s so powerful, though… you risk getting bored by level 92 with the repetitive linear aiming and Baal run monotony.

Durability = 8
Really, really tough to kill this character if you know your sorceresses. Stick to the tenets of safe teleporting; you’ll do fine. Might be wise to get “Battle Orders” cast before you teleport through the Claw Viper Temple in 8-player Hell untwinked, though.

Magic Find = 10
This character unlocks the full potential of the Tal Rasha Sorceress set without compromising damage, speed, or applicability (immunes). Enough said.


In sum, the milkshake produced by this build brings all the boys to the yard because it:
- doesn’t require dangerously close proximity [Nova, Charged Bolt]
- doesn’t have an overly irritating timer [Blizzard, Meteor, Fire Wall]
- doesn’t have problems ‘hitting stuff’ [Blizzard, Hydra, Fire Wall]
- doesn’t have pitiful base damage [Lightning, Chain Lightning]
- doesn’t require a more-than-double-digit IQ to aim [Fire Wall, Blaze!?]
(that said though, the above also qualify as reasons why you'd want to use 'harder' skills)

OkThanksGoKillStuffGetRichSendCa$h!


Socialism
- achieving Rockstar status, one day at a time
Gosh that's interesting.
 
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