19000 life, 6651 one hand damage, 35% damage resist, 62% block - kodiak bear build
- Thread starter Paul barbarian
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Paul barbarian
New member
Stevebo said:Paul - please read this carefully, I'm not having a go at you and am trying to help.
1. You cannot make the build - i checked the inventory size - it will exactly hold 12 Grand Charms and three of your four helms. Even if you do away with the small charms (which i am assuming you are also using to get your attack rating up too) you will still have to lose half your gear as 10 Charms + 1 Armour + 3 Helms will still fill your stash (with the other 10 charms in your inventory).
2. You will never find all the kit you want - not even if you play every day for a hundred years.
3. There is more to dueling than life (and more to life than dueling) such as AR and actually being able to hit your opponent. Also I know 19,000 health sounds like a lot but if you look over in the barb guides you will see it is realistically possible to make a WW Barb that does up to 12,000 damage per hit (with an average of 7,000). You could be killed in two hits, and on average in 3 hits. With 65% block this will equate to you lasting 1.5 seconds - if you're lucky. Its also possible (i.e it has been done) to make a rabies druid that does 40,000 poison damage in one hit (over time), all they have to do is bite you once and tele around you for a few seconds.
It's a fun idea (for a bit) "I'll make the char with the most life/damage/defense/mana/etc EVER" but basically it does not make the best character for either PvM or PvP.
If you really want a lot of health try making a Vit Barb and use a wisp-projector to give him an Oak Sage and use 'Beast' weapon to turn your barb into a bear. Please don't start posting in the barb forum on a crazy plan based on this combined with dozens of stages and masses of equipment. Just try with normal gear and see how it goes - BUILD IT FIRST BEFORE POSTING. AFAIK there are not too many Barbs out there like this, which probably means its not that great a build, but you should get a lot of health. Combined with masteries and other attack bonuses you should also get a decent attack rating.(Note : wisp projector and Beast can also in my humble opinion be classed as hard-to-get). I REPEAT - DON'T POST ABOUT IT UNTIL YOU HAVE BUILT IT.
(People - If he starts endlessley posting in the Barb forum about this i'm really sorry)
From reading your posts it seems you pretty much only play very very heavily twinked and have never really built a character from scratch untwinked or even semi-twinked - which is why you have some fundamental misunderstandings about how things work and a lack of appreciation of kit. I really suggest you try playing untwinked for a bit - say complete hell untwinked using the build you want and you will have a much better understanding how it works.
btw - untwinked in its purest form means "only using items the character finds himself". I prefer semi-twinked which to me (others differ) means "only using items that I personally find and then give to my other characters".
Finally - If you do come up with a build you want to try then BUILD THE DAMN THING for real before you start posting guides for it.
OK, about charms, it is possible to switch them, I didn't mean to keep them all at once.
And about warpike, I will nto have a shield yes, but when a barb or zealot will try to come close, he will not do, it because I'll be hitting him, if he tele on top, I run away and wait for him to come, it is that simple, the problem here is only WW barb I think.
Dude, do you know such thing as pvp penalty? bear will die in A LOT of hit, many many hits.
Barb as you said, wth beast and so on, will have MUCH less life than bear-druid
Knight Terror
New member
Paul barbarian said:
Ummm... this is for PURE melee duels?
Instead of going through all that to make a nearly impossible bear druid, why not just make a mediocre Hammerdin and own them just as easily?
I gaurantee that any Hammerdin, Bone Nec, FB Sorc, WWsin or V/T will be able to crown a zealot or other PURE melee build with just as much ease as this bear.
well, there is alot of errosr in this build.
First, u cannot max all 6 skills and still have skills pts to put into shockwave. At lvl 99 = 98+12=110. While ur build requires 120 skill pts.
Second, even u have life that high, if u cant land a hit on target, then there is no point of doing it. Most melee char has def, max pdr, and max block, which means half of time u will miss due to ur low ar and slow attack rate. In the other case, ur slow attack speed, people will be constantly hitting u while u dont. (due to ur slow fhr and slow ias) The maximum attack number with norm attack is 2 per sec? while most ppl can get 4-6 attacks per sec. And u didnt even mention angelic in the setup which means u have low ar cuz ur a bear, (which does not boost ar like werewolf) then u wont be able to land a hit often on 25k+def melee chars. U dont have cbf mod either, which means if ppl deliever a cold attack on u then ur attack speed will be incredibly reduce, and very slow.
In ur case, 35pdr and 62% block are just not enough in melee duel. if someone dish out 7k physical dmg per attack, u only have 35pdr, then u will recieve 773 per swing. While if u have max pdr then u will only recieve 595, so there is a big difference.
Let just said u have 19000life and 35%pdr, and u take 7k physical dmg per hit.
7000 x .17 x (1-.35) = 774
19000/774 = 23.57 ~ 24 hits.
so basically u can take 24 swing from ppl who dishes out 7k.
Now, with a werebear has 15000life, (4k life apart, which is alot) and 50%pdr. He also takes 7k physical dmg per hit.
7000 x .17 x (1-.50) = 595
15000/595 = 25.21 ~ 26 hits
so as u can see, he will last longer by 2 hits, (which is crucial in pvp) and can potentionally survive if he kills his enemy first, and it is alot easier to achieve 15k than 19k. (while it seems kinda rare to me, most good werebears that i have seen habr range of 8k-11k.)
And there is one main problem, is that ur gears are undoubfully hard to acquire and it seems to me that some of them are impossible to obtain. A ring with 20str, 15dex, 40+life? (and the ring miss the important ar anyway) it is hard to obtain and even classic dupe does not have the stat that high.
First, u cannot max all 6 skills and still have skills pts to put into shockwave. At lvl 99 = 98+12=110. While ur build requires 120 skill pts.
Second, even u have life that high, if u cant land a hit on target, then there is no point of doing it. Most melee char has def, max pdr, and max block, which means half of time u will miss due to ur low ar and slow attack rate. In the other case, ur slow attack speed, people will be constantly hitting u while u dont. (due to ur slow fhr and slow ias) The maximum attack number with norm attack is 2 per sec? while most ppl can get 4-6 attacks per sec. And u didnt even mention angelic in the setup which means u have low ar cuz ur a bear, (which does not boost ar like werewolf) then u wont be able to land a hit often on 25k+def melee chars. U dont have cbf mod either, which means if ppl deliever a cold attack on u then ur attack speed will be incredibly reduce, and very slow.
In ur case, 35pdr and 62% block are just not enough in melee duel. if someone dish out 7k physical dmg per attack, u only have 35pdr, then u will recieve 773 per swing. While if u have max pdr then u will only recieve 595, so there is a big difference.
Let just said u have 19000life and 35%pdr, and u take 7k physical dmg per hit.
7000 x .17 x (1-.35) = 774
19000/774 = 23.57 ~ 24 hits.
so basically u can take 24 swing from ppl who dishes out 7k.
Now, with a werebear has 15000life, (4k life apart, which is alot) and 50%pdr. He also takes 7k physical dmg per hit.
7000 x .17 x (1-.50) = 595
15000/595 = 25.21 ~ 26 hits
so as u can see, he will last longer by 2 hits, (which is crucial in pvp) and can potentionally survive if he kills his enemy first, and it is alot easier to achieve 15k than 19k. (while it seems kinda rare to me, most good werebears that i have seen habr range of 8k-11k.)
And there is one main problem, is that ur gears are undoubfully hard to acquire and it seems to me that some of them are impossible to obtain. A ring with 20str, 15dex, 40+life? (and the ring miss the important ar anyway) it is hard to obtain and even classic dupe does not have the stat that high.
MonsterSlayer
Guest
Paul barbarian said:
He says you can't have all those items gathered in your stash + cube + inv. to say it short, no room.
I thought that was something you had achieved at the barb forum, why that idea won't work. First, range x = 2/3 yards * x. Second, since you have almost no + f r / w you won't move that fast (you will be even slower when chilled). Third the zealer will move faster than you and block faster, so it will go like this: Zealer walks up to you (you have range 5 weapon, he has range 3) so you'll be able to land 1 attempt to hit before he'll right in front of you. That hit will be blocked in 3/4 situations and missed in about 1/2 I guess so you probably won't even get the first hit in. Now the pala will start zealing you and you'll be toasted eventhough you'll last a couple of seconds. (Yes seconds without a shield).
The reason is simple, a normal attack is a swing attack, so you won't be able to move and attack, meanwhile an attack like ww is a moving attack, and that's why a range 5 ww'er should be able to beat a smiter by ww'ing backwards using a range 5 weapon. Period.
Now, who on earth would read all that?
PS: Have you ever seen the Classic dupes? I mean a cho-ku-nu dealing 50-150 damage... aww.
Paul barbarian said:
OK - Your inventory AND stash can hold a TOTAL of 20 Grand Charms, 3 Helms and your spare Armour and 10 small charms. There is a fair bit of your kit you will lose as you simply cant posess it all on one char. You will need a spare character to hold half your stuff half the time.
it will be able to tank a bit, but it will be unlikely to beat a reasonably built character as it will not hit them very often (range 5 polearm or not). If they tele on top and WW there's not much you can do. Also If you dont have a shield you will be getting hit 6? times a second by a 4fps attack. You may be able to take "many many hits" but they will be done to you very very quickly.
Here is how i see a cautious battle:
1. He kills your oak sage.
2. He dances/teles about you for a minute until your BO wears off.
3. He Kills you.
Or more realistically:
1. Kills your Oak.
2. They charge/tele in and WW/Zeal/Rabies/Fireclaw/Whaterver to kill you. You will be unlikely to be able to land a hit on them.
Finally the Barb i suggested will not have 19,000 life, but it does have the big advantage in that it is actually possible to build and is feasible to play.
Paul barbarian
New member
Stevebo said:
LOL, very funny, from what you say I can assume that while duel is on I go to drink cofee or tea, and eat donuts, LOL, be more realistically, LOL, druid that is feasible to play will have 15000 life without gear switching dude, without any switching he will have 15000 life, what is pretty good, and realistic to play, how the hell are they gonna come to me? tele on top? I'll run a bit and turn around and wait for them to come, when they try, I hit them with pike dealing huge damage and don't let them come, the only problem is WW barb, but when he whirls, I can come out of his range and use my range of 5.
plus can defend oak so that it is not easily killed.
To lay very very quick hits they have to come close, and here I'll use pike.
NewForumBloke
New member
Wow Pual... I just read through all 7 pages of this and you've defended your bear build very well. And for the beginning you CAN get 3 os in a magical circlet ( once had a 29%mf 3 os circlet ). I'm sorry dude but I'm going to have to side with reason on this man, pitted against a well equiped zealot (who is much much faster than you) you 19k life (or 15k or 17k w/e) truly wont do as much as you hope for (this is in my opinion and exp). Im not saying that the items you want to get are impossible, theyre just very^1023918238 hard to get man. I may just go and try to build a bear myself now and see how much life i can manage lol. Btw how far are you gear wise (like what do you still need to get)? and have you already started lvling/building him yet? Give us a update of how he's coming. Your going to need more luck than a trillion leprechons could ever hope to have to achieve even one of those rare items though lol.
GL(your definately goign to need it)
-BLoke
p.s. Quit being ignorant to the idea that his build is possible and telling him its not. Its possible just not a very wise choice. (but i bet it would be a fun char to use in pvm lol)
GL(your definately goign to need it)
-BLoke
p.s. Quit being ignorant to the idea that his build is possible and telling him its not. Its possible just not a very wise choice. (but i bet it would be a fun char to use in pvm lol)
Paul barbarian said:
i just want to know how the HELL are you gonna defend your oak while you cannot tele away. ww is not a single target skill, 1 hit and your oak is gone.... how can you "defend" it?? in a duel it's not easy to recast the oak due to your crappy cast rate, fhr.... even if you do chances are it's gonna be dead the moment you cast it :lol:
Plus, it so easy for the barb to catch you using enigma or not since their speed >>>>>>>> yours. hey man it's not easy to just walk out of the ww's range with your slow walking speed while the barb is tele'd right next to you.....
crap fhr, attack speed, run/walk speed
You'll have no ar [even with 39x3/20/20's it will be very low, +117 overall], so said zealot will just walk up, complete a 2fps blocking animation, and proceed to zeal you to death you.
Imo, you've focused WAY too much on the shallow "WOW!" stats [life], and not enough of the other useful mods. To list a few that you are lacking in:
Attack Rating
A shield [ties into attack rating]
Faster hit recovery
Run/walk speed --> you have no tele
Combat proc mods [OW, DS, CB, etc]
Can't think of more right now, kinda tired
It should be:
2558*6.67 = 17061.86 adjusted life
In conclusion, I really think this was just a "How much life can a Werebear get?" thread gone horribly, horribly wrong.
Imo, you've focused WAY too much on the shallow "WOW!" stats [life], and not enough of the other useful mods. To list a few that you are lacking in:
Attack Rating
A shield [ties into attack rating]
Faster hit recovery
Run/walk speed --> you have no tele
Combat proc mods [OW, DS, CB, etc]
Can't think of more right now, kinda tired
I tihnk you made a math error here, unless you don't mention another source of %life gain.Paul Barbarian said:
It should be:
2558*6.67 = 17061.86 adjusted life
In conclusion, I really think this was just a "How much life can a Werebear get?" thread gone horribly, horribly wrong.
vagrantrogue
New member
you're gonna go through all this effort just to be the ultimate force against melee? an untwinked summon necro w/ iron maiden curse can do the same job...
MonsterSlayer
Guest
Jerion said:
20*40 = 800 ar
well if you add 100% of something, to something e.g. life then you would multiply it by 2 e.g. I have 100 life and BO enhances this by 100% so I'll have 2 times 100 life or 100*2 = 200 that's why it's 2558*7,67 as he stated
I don't think he plans some kind of ultimative char, it's more like a char that can beat most meleers in a new different way, he just won't realise that his idea suck and he's no chance in duels with this thingy.
No one tells him this build isn't possible, it's just unrealistic and very bad at the same time, and no he hasn't defended it well, he has defended it very poorly by coming with half solutions e.g. the range 5 weapon where he doesn't realise that he won't be able to go away AND attack.
As already said the "melee" char, let's say in this case a zealot will walk towards him, if not using charge. Here I think Pauls plan is to... walk away, hit, walk away, hit. But what will actually happen? If the zealot doesn't use charge then he'll walk towards him, Paul will either walk away or peform an attack from a distance of 4/3 yards, only 1,25 yard!! The zealot walks this in about 1/4 of a second if he is at base walking speed. So if Paul tries to hit him, the zealot will avoid the hit in 7 out of 8 situations and then the zealot will have an attack opportunity + the zealot swings with 5 fpa, so Paul won't be able to walk away before the swing has landed.
Beside if the zealot doesn't block, but the defence saves him, then Paul will still be in his hit animation while the zealot starts his attack.
Let's now assume Paul starts to walk away, well now he has his back to the opponent, a PALADIN! :EEK: No brains needed here.
The Paladin will charge Paul's Bear in the back, so he'll get hit and stunned by the knockback. Even if he doesn't get hit, he won't be able to walk away from a 2 yards, 1/5 second attack, unless he walks with 10 yards/sec which is somethink like 150 f r / w I think. (Haven't calculated that though). So to say it short, this bear is screwed in PvP no matter how much life, and I can't see the amusement of playing it in PvM? It's like going really slow killing one monster at the time. Somewhat like playing an untwinked barb without using any combat skills, but then he'll have 2-3 times the life.
You are building a dueller that by your own admission will have no hope against:
Amazons
Sorcs
Wind, Fire, Summon and Fireclaw (they will just armageddon you) Druids
Hammerdrins
Necromancers
Assassins
This does not sound like that great a PvP character so far.
You plan to use it against:
Barbs (Not singers or throwbarbs as they will kill you "from afar")
Some Paladins
Wolf and some Bear Druids
In summary you want it to work against about half the builds or three of the seven characters.
Sword and Shield Barbs, Paladins and Wolf/Bear Druids:
They will have 75% Block, fast run/walk, fast attack speed, high defense, high damage and high AR. You will have no block, low defense low AR and slow attack speed. You will hit them once in every eight attacks (if you're lucky) they will hit you about two in every three if they are unlucky. Your pike will not keep them away as you will not actually hit them with it.
WW Polearm Barb:
He has a range 5 attack that will do much more damage than yours and will hit you 4 or 6? times a second, he will have very high AR and will hit you almost every time, he can WW after you while you run away faster than you run, he can tele in and WW your Oak. You have the same range but slower attack speed and low AR and will not hit him very often.
Actual Playing:
Stage 1. Run out of town to cast BO, Etc. (Timer on BO starts)
Stage 2. Run back into town, swap half your kit. Cast Oak. (30 Seconds?)
Stage 3. Swap half your kit again, Swap 10 Skillers. (20 Seconds?)
Stage 4. Swap All your kit, Swap 10 GC for 30 SC (which you need if you want any AR at all). You will need a spare char on standby to hold most of this as there is not space in your stash to hold the 30SC and the remaining kit. you will need two trades to get it all swapped as you cant swap the equipment and skillers in a single trade. (60 seconds min)
Ready to Battle. Run out of town to where you plan to duel - 10 seconds (prob more).
Total time = 120 seconds (approx)
You will now have about 2mins until your warcries wear off, which if you plan on a hit-and-run attack style will not be enough - esp as you will only hit them once in evey eight attacks..
But enough, it seems you are totally unswayed by the idea and are determined to go ahead and build it dispite the volume of advice against it. And so i wish you lots and lots and lots of luck. Should you ever actually manage to make the build please tell me, I will be more than happy to quickly scratch a basic melee char together on East to PvP you.
Amazons
Sorcs
Wind, Fire, Summon and Fireclaw (they will just armageddon you) Druids
Hammerdrins
Necromancers
Assassins
This does not sound like that great a PvP character so far.
You plan to use it against:
Barbs (Not singers or throwbarbs as they will kill you "from afar")
Some Paladins
Wolf and some Bear Druids
In summary you want it to work against about half the builds or three of the seven characters.
Sword and Shield Barbs, Paladins and Wolf/Bear Druids:
They will have 75% Block, fast run/walk, fast attack speed, high defense, high damage and high AR. You will have no block, low defense low AR and slow attack speed. You will hit them once in every eight attacks (if you're lucky) they will hit you about two in every three if they are unlucky. Your pike will not keep them away as you will not actually hit them with it.
WW Polearm Barb:
He has a range 5 attack that will do much more damage than yours and will hit you 4 or 6? times a second, he will have very high AR and will hit you almost every time, he can WW after you while you run away faster than you run, he can tele in and WW your Oak. You have the same range but slower attack speed and low AR and will not hit him very often.
Actual Playing:
Stage 1. Run out of town to cast BO, Etc. (Timer on BO starts)
Stage 2. Run back into town, swap half your kit. Cast Oak. (30 Seconds?)
Stage 3. Swap half your kit again, Swap 10 Skillers. (20 Seconds?)
Stage 4. Swap All your kit, Swap 10 GC for 30 SC (which you need if you want any AR at all). You will need a spare char on standby to hold most of this as there is not space in your stash to hold the 30SC and the remaining kit. you will need two trades to get it all swapped as you cant swap the equipment and skillers in a single trade. (60 seconds min)
Ready to Battle. Run out of town to where you plan to duel - 10 seconds (prob more).
Total time = 120 seconds (approx)
You will now have about 2mins until your warcries wear off, which if you plan on a hit-and-run attack style will not be enough - esp as you will only hit them once in evey eight attacks..
But enough, it seems you are totally unswayed by the idea and are determined to go ahead and build it dispite the volume of advice against it. And so i wish you lots and lots and lots of luck. Should you ever actually manage to make the build please tell me, I will be more than happy to quickly scratch a basic melee char together on East to PvP you.
Ash Housewares1
New member
NewForumBloke said:
3 sockets is possible on a magic circlet yes, and 4 sockets is possible on magic armor, but +3 shifting 3 socket +life circlets are not possible, nor is a 200ed +100 life armor with 4 sockets
they're imaginary
and Paul, I know it's the internet but you don't have to put LOL at the end of every 'sentence' it doesn't reenforce your point any
xpumafangx
New member
Nice wolf barb by the way.
Paul just give it up. Do a poison dagger necro or a enchantress. This tread is just lame.
paul: from almost all the people here tell u that this build will not work. Moreover, u dont even have one, how do u know what is gonna happen? If the build work then ppl would already make it by now. (if u actually have one and prove it to ppl)
Your build just contains too many errors, something not suppose to happen but in the game and u make it up. If this open battle.net then ppl would careless cuz they can achieve life a lot higher than that.
Theory cannot be proven without experiment.
Your build just contains too many errors, something not suppose to happen but in the game and u make it up. If this open battle.net then ppl would careless cuz they can achieve life a lot higher than that.
Theory cannot be proven without experiment.
