1.11 Skill Balance Changes Discussion

[Arbedark]

I think you are the one who needs to test things then. I have tried plenty of skills that can barely damage past the monsters regen.

And like I said maybe some skills can be viable IF you have uber godly equipment but that is not balance. Why should a good portion of the game be locked away for botters and runners only?

No, I am talking about untwinked characters being able to play through hell.

I see no use in arguing with you, since your idea of "viable" must be completeing the whole of hell difficulty in under an hour. Or something along those lines.

And you still ignore my comments about a character being able to complete hell using the fireball from Trangs set.

And as I have said. Last ladder season i used a FW/FO sorc. Which was very viable imo. And FW is considered to be an "underpowered" skill.

If you are going to continue arguing a moot point, then I would greatly appreciate it if you could at least list which skills are considered "not viable" for an untwinked character to use.



Arb

 

[owbaer]

Lol everyone still debating I see. What I don't get is you say that skills related like fireball & firebolt, firebolt would receive high synergies from upgrading fireball. But what I don't get is why would upgrading a skill such as fireball actually be more beneficial to firebolt that actually fireball itself through synergies? Shouldn't upgrading fireball be more beneficial to fireball? =/

 

[Origin]

No, I am talking about untwinked characters being able to play through hell.

I see no use in arguing with you, since your idea of "viable" must be completeing the whole of hell difficulty in under an hour. Or something along those lines.

And you still ignore my comments about a character being able to complete hell using the fireball from Trangs set.

And as I have said. Last ladder season i used a FW/FO sorc. Which was very viable imo. And FW is considered to be an "underpowered" skill.

If you are going to continue arguing a moot point, then I would greatly appreciate it if you could at least list which skills are considered "not viable" for an untwinked character to use.



Arb

i edited and answered your trang claim, look back on the previous page. anyway nobody cares if you can take one single example of using an "underpowered" skill especially when it is a skill i personally did not say was underpowered.

I'll give you plenty skills that arent hell viable on an untwinked character, but of course you must realise that what im after is not only to make everything hell viable but to give playersa a REASON to use every skill. there is no reason whatsoever to use firebolt right now as fireball is better.

anyway skills that are not hell viable untwinked or have a meaning to be used (and of course there is probably more, these are just those I have noticed):

dragon claw
firebolt
blaze
inferno
ice bolt
ice blast
shiver armor
chilling armor
frost nova
telekinesis
nova
magic arrow
fire arrow
cold arrow
ice arrow
prayer
might
thorns
blessed aim
sanctuary

Ok is this enough? I really dont want to sit here typing up skills all day.
Also of course i do not count using a skill as a synergy.

edit=grammar error

 

[Origin]

Lol everyone still debating I see. What I don't get is you say that skills related like fireball & firebolt, firebolt would receive high synergies from upgrading fireball. But what I don't get is why would upgrading a skill such as fireball actually be more beneficial to firebolt that actually fireball itself through synergies? Shouldn't upgrading fireball be more beneficial to fireball? =/

I didn't say it had to be fireball that is the synnergy. But either way not that i see why it matters but this depends solely on how many synnergies firebolt would have. If it has many synnergies then putting skill points in fireball would not give more damage to firebolt than to fireball.

 

[owbaer]

I didn't say it had to be fireball that is the synnergy. But either way not that i see why it matters but this depends solely on how many synnergies firebolt would have. If it has many synnergies then putting skill points in fireball would not give more damage to firebolt than to fireball.

If you wanted to make it viable, I would suggest it be able to do something unique then compared to fireball. What would it do uniquely? Lmao hell if i know Blizzard will decide.

 

[Arbedark]

Dragon claw is dependant upon the claws. So if anything this is an issue for item dropping.

As previously mentioned, Firebolt has an extremely low mana cost, while doing nearly the same damage as fireball. Of use against bosses.

Blaze - Needs adjustments.

Inferno - Currently bugged

Ice Bolt - Would be hell viable, but Ice Blast is better.

Ice Blast - Deals very good damage to a single target. Useful for spamming in between of timered spells.

Cold Armours - Can kill in hell using these. With good eq though. But for defensive purposes i think they are more than good enough. Giving the sorc (who shouldn't be able to tank) a defensive ability is helpful.

Frost Nova - Mainly used for its long chilling ability. Chill in an area of effect and then us other AoE spells.

Telekenisis - Isn't an attack skill. Very helpful for accessing wp's, stashes etc from distance, saving time on runs and saving space near the stash in busy games. Also gives advantage in picking up gold and pots to the sorc.

Nova - Viable in NM. Underpowered in hell.

Magic Arrow - Guide written and put in the strat compendium.

Fire Arrow - % Damage turned to fire. Helpful vs PI's in hell. When using a high damage bow. Once again, item dropping issue.

Cold Arrow - See above.

Ice Arrow - Long freezing duration. Good vs single freezeable enemies.

Prayer - Actually heals quite nicely. Useful in between fights. Not as a main aura.

Might - Useable as a main aura.

Thorns - I have no comments on this.

Blessed aim - erm, Hidden AR bonus? VERY useful to put points in.

Sanctuary - Actually useful if you want to create a melee "cleric"


These skills are hell viable. Just not as powerful as the overpowered skills.

And its level 18 fireBALL, not firebolt. And reade the guide by mongojerry and his accounting of how he fared in hell with his magebarb.


There you go.






Arb

 

[Origin]

If you wanted to make it viable, I would suggest it be able to do something unique then compared to fireball. What would it do uniquely? Lmao hell if i know Blizzard will decide.

well that's unrealistic from a patch as that would need a code change. only upping the damage though would only be a database change and could easily be done.

 

[owbaer]

well that's unrealistic from a patch as that would need a code change. only upping the damage though would only be a database change and could easily be done.

If they upped the damage it would still most likely be under fireball's damage. The only point I guess you could make on it is if firebolt was stronger but was for individuals whereas fireball = crowd control. I'm getting tired of using fireball & firebolt as an argument lmao it's being mentioned in every post on here. Some people say it's useful for pvp so ya kjneva know....

 

[Origin]

Dragon claw is dependant upon the claws. So if anything this is an issue for item dropping.

As previously mentioned, Firebolt has an extremely low mana cost, while doing nearly the same damage as fireball. Of use against bosses.

Blaze - Needs adjustments.

Inferno - Currently bugged

Ice Bolt - Would be hell viable, but Ice Blast is better.

Ice Blast - Deals very good damage to a single target. Useful for spamming in between of timered spells.

Cold Armours - Can kill in hell using these. With good eq though. But for defensive purposes i think they are more than good enough. Giving the sorc (who shouldn't be able to tank) a defensive ability is helpful.

Frost Nova - Mainly used for its long chilling ability. Chill in an area of effect and then us other AoE spells.

Telekenisis - Isn't an attack skill. Very helpful for accessing wp's, stashes etc from distance, saving time on runs and saving space near the stash in busy games. Also gives advantage in picking up gold and pots to the sorc.

Nova - Viable in NM. Underpowered in hell.

Magic Arrow - Guide written and put in the strat compendium.

Fire Arrow - % Damage turned to fire. Helpful vs PI's in hell. When using a high damage bow. Once again, item dropping issue.

Cold Arrow - See above.

Ice Arrow - Long freezing duration. Good vs single freezeable enemies.

Prayer - Actually heals quite nicely. Useful in between fights. Not as a main aura.

Might - Useable as a main aura.

Thorns - I have no comments on this.

Blessed aim - erm, Hidden AR bonus? VERY useful to put points in.

Sanctuary - Actually useful if you want to create a melee "cleric"


These skills are hell viable. Just not as powerful as the overpowered skills.

And its level 18 fireBALL, not firebolt. And reade the guide by mongojerry and his accounting of how he fared in hell with his magebarb.


There you go.






Arb

you missed the point completely. there is no reason to use many of these skills because there are better skills for the same character. why use might when you can use concentration for an example? why use cold and shiver armor when you can use frost armor? why use ice blast when glacial is faster and deals more damage whenever you hit more than 1 target which you do often. etc. etc.

oh and if you've ever tried dragon claws in hell you'd know its not viable. drop rates are the same for everyone. skills are not. other melee skills work in hell. not balanced. simple.

 

[Origin]

If they upped the damage it would still most likely be under fireball's damage. The only point I guess you could make on it is if firebolt was stronger but was for individuals whereas fireball = crowd control. I'm getting tired of using fireball & firebolt as an argument lmao it's being mentioned in every post on here. Some people say it's useful for pvp so ya kjneva know....

that's what ive been saying the whole time. bolt for singles ball for crowds.

 

[Arbedark]

you missed the point completely. there is no reason to use many of these skills because there are better skills for the same character. why use might when you can use concentration for an example? why use cold and shiver armor when you can use frost armor? why use ice blast when glacial is faster and deals more damage whenever you hit more than 1 target which you do often. etc. etc.

oh and if you've ever tried dragon claws in hell you'd know its not viable. drop rates are the same for everyone. skills are not. other melee skills work in hell. not balanced. simple.

One armour freezes, one deals damage to melee one deals damage to ranged.

The reason to use might is because it is a lower level skill. Fun for LLD. And it is a CHALLENGE. You dont HAVE to use concentrate to be good.

Making it so might was exactly the same as concentrate or fana is very pointless. Why have 3 identical skills?

Dragon claw IS viable. I have played a char using it before. Using cheap gear such as bartucs and Duress. Yes i dont kill at an amazing speed. But i can complete hell using it.

You really aren't making any sense to me. What exactly is it you want? All skills to kill the same speed as each other?





Arb