1.07 News, Info and Gossip
- Thread starter AlienBoyz
- Start date
I apologize if this has already been answered somewhere, but I'm struggling to find a definitive explanation: When 1.07 ethereal weapons are carried forward to 1.10+, does the persisting +50% max dmg bonus get affected by other sources of ED, or does the bonus remain unaffected by all other stats?
This is either poorly worded, or just incorrect.
1.07 ethereal weapons forwarded to 1.09+ work like any other ethereal weapon from newer patches, except that the +50% max damage carries over. So if you were to make "Silence" runeword in something with 90 max damage (when eth), using a 1.09+ (or was it 1.08?) base would give 270 max damage while using an eth base from 1.07 would give 315 max damage.
Simply put, the 50% max damage is additive, not multiplicative with enhanced damage from runes, jewels or runewords (on weapon, off weapon works as expected).
That's what I said, basically BUT! The damage which is only added to the max damage (50%) is NOT further enhanced by putting a runeword in the item. Nor damage jewels nor Ohm runes.
The difference lies in the word "base". Where the double-eth cubed armor bug which was introduced with 1.11 will indeed make the base defense 2.25 times higher than a normal armor, the same thing with 1.07 weapons does NOT happen. It's still only normal ethereal, but it keeps the 50% enhanced max damage bonus. Gomule reads it wrong (adds it together with %ED when it should be displayed separately) but you can see an example here:
As you can see, the max damage is correct if the base damage is 190, but it should have been a LOT higher if the base damage was indeed 285. 190 * 4.75 = 902.5 which is what we got, whereas 285 * 4.25 = 1211.25 which would be awesome, but isn't the case at all.
EDIT: Just reached lvl 91, so amulet cubing time!
The difference lies in the word "base". Where the double-eth cubed armor bug which was introduced with 1.11 will indeed make the base defense 2.25 times higher than a normal armor, the same thing with 1.07 weapons does NOT happen. It's still only normal ethereal, but it keeps the 50% enhanced max damage bonus. Gomule reads it wrong (adds it together with %ED when it should be displayed separately) but you can see an example here:
Infinity
Great Poleaxe
BerMalBerIst
Two Hand Damage: 327 - 902
Durability: 28 of 28
Required Level: 63
Required Strength: 169
Required Dexterity: 89
Fingerprint: 0x6844663e
Item Level: 87
Version: Expansion
50% Chance to cast level 20 Chain Lightning when you Kill an Enemy
Level 12 Conviction Aura When Equipped
+35% Faster Run/Walk
375% Enhanced Damage
-55% to Enemy Lightning Resistance
40% Chance of Crushing Blow
Prevent Monster Heal
+47 to Vitality (Based on Character Level)
30% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items
Level 21 Cyclone Armor (19/30 Charges)
Ethereal
4 Sockets (4 used)
Socketed: Ber Rune
Socketed: Mal Rune
Socketed: Ber Rune
Socketed: Ist Rune
Ber Rune
Required Level: 63
Version: Expansion 1.10+
Weapons: 20% Chance of Crushing Blow
Armor: Damage Reduced by 8%
Shields: Damage Reduced by 8%
Mal Rune
Required Level: 49
Version: Expansion 1.10+
Weapons: Prevent Monster Heal
Armor: Magic Damage Reduced by 7
Shields: Magic Damage Reduced by 7
Ber Rune
Required Level: 63
Version: Expansion 1.10+
Weapons: 20% Chance of Crushing Blow
Armor: Damage Reduced by 8%
Shields: Damage Reduced by 8%
Ist Rune
Required Level: 51
Version: Expansion 1.10+
Weapons: 30% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items
Armor: 25% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items
Shields: 25% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items
Great Poleaxe
BerMalBerIst
Two Hand Damage: 327 - 902
Durability: 28 of 28
Required Level: 63
Required Strength: 169
Required Dexterity: 89
Fingerprint: 0x6844663e
Item Level: 87
Version: Expansion
50% Chance to cast level 20 Chain Lightning when you Kill an Enemy
Level 12 Conviction Aura When Equipped
+35% Faster Run/Walk
375% Enhanced Damage
-55% to Enemy Lightning Resistance
40% Chance of Crushing Blow
Prevent Monster Heal
+47 to Vitality (Based on Character Level)
30% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items
Level 21 Cyclone Armor (19/30 Charges)
Ethereal
4 Sockets (4 used)
Socketed: Ber Rune
Socketed: Mal Rune
Socketed: Ber Rune
Socketed: Ist Rune
Ber Rune
Required Level: 63
Version: Expansion 1.10+
Weapons: 20% Chance of Crushing Blow
Armor: Damage Reduced by 8%
Shields: Damage Reduced by 8%
Mal Rune
Required Level: 49
Version: Expansion 1.10+
Weapons: Prevent Monster Heal
Armor: Magic Damage Reduced by 7
Shields: Magic Damage Reduced by 7
Ber Rune
Required Level: 63
Version: Expansion 1.10+
Weapons: 20% Chance of Crushing Blow
Armor: Damage Reduced by 8%
Shields: Damage Reduced by 8%
Ist Rune
Required Level: 51
Version: Expansion 1.10+
Weapons: 30% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items
Armor: 25% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items
Shields: 25% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items
As you can see, the max damage is correct if the base damage is 190, but it should have been a LOT higher if the base damage was indeed 285. 190 * 4.75 = 902.5 which is what we got, whereas 285 * 4.25 = 1211.25 which would be awesome, but isn't the case at all.
EDIT: Just reached lvl 91, so amulet cubing time!
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NorthDakota
Well-known member
So, while we're talking about it, for calculating item's damages ahead of making them, what sort of formulas should I be using? The formulas in repusz's 1.07 guide seem a bit wonky to me, I don't understand where some of the numbers come from in those calculations.
To bring an exact example, how would I go about calculating the max damage roll for an infinity made in my freshly found 1.07 sup 15ed eth thresher? I'm having a tough time figuring out what it will look like when forwarded (maybe I should just forward it), and additionally it appears different in atma and in game.
In game its damage range is 18-150. In atma its damage range is 27 to 224.
When I look at how an eth thresher looks when forwarded in yiuman's addendum, the damage range is 18-317. I'm not sure how to even just simply apply the 15% ed to that. Then I don't know how the %ed from infinity is applied either. If one of yall could direct me to THE FORMULA or something else to read I'd read it.
Edit: Okay I figured I was capable of doing this with a little work and I shouldn't need to lean on anyone for my answer. Atma is just wrong about the damage on a thresher unless the displayed game damage is wrong across several items, so I guess that's that.
So the %ed is applied to the non-eth base damage.
Now when forwarding it the damages look like this:
Calculations were more complicated here.
So I went through all this work to realize that I basically just retyped Repusz's formula. I guess it was good to go through it all myself to completely understand. I don't understand repusz's formula completely.
That's what he wrote. What I don't understand is why he adds 1 to the base item max damage at the beginning of the formula. Also, if I were to rewrite it, I'd make the middle part a little less ambiguous as to the order of operations like this -
[(ED/100)+1.5] because honestly as a layman looking at his original I was confused by where the 0.5 was coming from. But that's actually the eth ed% being added in there. If it were written on paper I think it'd be less confusing.
So if I follow that for my thresher I get this:
(141+1) * [(15/100) + 1.5] * 1.5 = 351.45 Only off by 3. What's weird is that if I leave out that first 1 in the formula, I get 141 *1.65 * 1.5 = 348.975 which is about spot on.
So following the formula, if I get a perfect roll on my infinity rune word I could do:
211 * 4.90 = 1,033 damage. Phew. That was way more work than I was going to do tonight.
BTW @helvete how'd you roll that perfect infinity. It's disgusting and I refuse to believe it.
To bring an exact example, how would I go about calculating the max damage roll for an infinity made in my freshly found 1.07 sup 15ed eth thresher? I'm having a tough time figuring out what it will look like when forwarded (maybe I should just forward it), and additionally it appears different in atma and in game.
In game its damage range is 18-150. In atma its damage range is 27 to 224.
When I look at how an eth thresher looks when forwarded in yiuman's addendum, the damage range is 18-317. I'm not sure how to even just simply apply the 15% ed to that. Then I don't know how the %ed from infinity is applied either. If one of yall could direct me to THE FORMULA or something else to read I'd read it.
Edit: Okay I figured I was capable of doing this with a little work and I shouldn't need to lean on anyone for my answer. Atma is just wrong about the damage on a thresher unless the displayed game damage is wrong across several items, so I guess that's that.
Code:
Regular 1.07 thresher: 16-91
Eth 1.07 thresher: 16-136 (91*1.5) = 136.5
Eth 15ed 1.07 thresher: 18-150 (91*1.15) + (136.5-91) = 150.15So the %ed is applied to the non-eth base damage.
Now when forwarding it the damages look like this:
Code:
Regular 1.07 thresher: 12 - 141
Eth 1.07 thresher: 18 - 316
Eth 15ed 1.07 thresher: 20 - 348Calculations were more complicated here.
Eth 1.07 Thresher calculation:
Eth ed% calc: 141*1.5 = 211.5
Eth 1.07 max damage calc: 211*1.5 = 316.5 (note that you have to drop the .5 off the 211)
And then you drop the .5 again off the 316.5 to get the displayed 316 max damage.
Final formula looks like this (max damage*1.5*1.5). It's simple, except that you have to drop any decimal remainders partway through the calculation if you want to be 100% accurate or else you end up with 317 which is wrong. Or if you know the non1.07 eth max damage, you can just do eth max damage*1.5
Eth ed% calc: 141*1.5 = 211.5
Eth 1.07 max damage calc: 211*1.5 = 316.5 (note that you have to drop the .5 off the 211)
And then you drop the .5 again off the 316.5 to get the displayed 316 max damage.
Final formula looks like this (max damage*1.5*1.5). It's simple, except that you have to drop any decimal remainders partway through the calculation if you want to be 100% accurate or else you end up with 317 which is wrong. Or if you know the non1.07 eth max damage, you can just do eth max damage*1.5
Eth 15ed 1.07 Thresher calculation
Eth ed% + 1.07 eth max damage calc: 141*1.5 = 211.5 (drop the .5) * 1.5 = 316.5
Superior ed% calc: (211*1.15=242.65). Now you have to subtract 211 from that (242.65-211 = 31.65). That is the amount the superior ed% adds to the damage. It only enhances the damage from the regular ethereal portion, not the 1.07 max damage ed% portion. You add these together to get your final damage of (31.65 + 316.5) = 348.15 and you again, drop the .15
Final formula looks like this: [eth max damage*(1+ED/100)] - eth max damage] + (eth max damage*1.5)
but it's more complicated than that because sometimes during that operation you have to round down the decimal. Or if you know the regular eth max damage, you can
Eth ed% + 1.07 eth max damage calc: 141*1.5 = 211.5 (drop the .5) * 1.5 = 316.5
Superior ed% calc: (211*1.15=242.65). Now you have to subtract 211 from that (242.65-211 = 31.65). That is the amount the superior ed% adds to the damage. It only enhances the damage from the regular ethereal portion, not the 1.07 max damage ed% portion. You add these together to get your final damage of (31.65 + 316.5) = 348.15 and you again, drop the .15
Final formula looks like this: [eth max damage*(1+ED/100)] - eth max damage] + (eth max damage*1.5)
but it's more complicated than that because sometimes during that operation you have to round down the decimal. Or if you know the regular eth max damage, you can
So I went through all this work to realize that I basically just retyped Repusz's formula. I guess it was good to go through it all myself to completely understand. I don't understand repusz's formula completely.
That's what he wrote. What I don't understand is why he adds 1 to the base item max damage at the beginning of the formula. Also, if I were to rewrite it, I'd make the middle part a little less ambiguous as to the order of operations like this -
[(ED/100)+1.5] because honestly as a layman looking at his original I was confused by where the 0.5 was coming from. But that's actually the eth ed% being added in there. If it were written on paper I think it'd be less confusing.
So if I follow that for my thresher I get this:
(141+1) * [(15/100) + 1.5] * 1.5 = 351.45 Only off by 3. What's weird is that if I leave out that first 1 in the formula, I get 141 *1.65 * 1.5 = 348.975 which is about spot on.
So following the formula, if I get a perfect roll on my infinity rune word I could do:
211 * 4.90 = 1,033 damage. Phew. That was way more work than I was going to do tonight.
BTW @helvete how'd you roll that perfect infinity. It's disgusting and I refuse to believe it.
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The 1 is added because of how %ED is displayed: As a +x%. Items used to say "150% damage to undead" but nowadays it's "+50% damage to undead". See how that's the same thing, and why you need to add the 1?
EDIT: No wait, that was the other 1.... Too early in the morning =)
EDIT: No wait, that was the other 1.... Too early in the morning =)
hmm, trying to find a map and racked a griswold's armor (ornate plate)
Forgot this gave +2 defensive auras so I stuck it on my 'prayer' cow mule
edit: finally got a colossus blade rack (have to cast hydra) and the one beside it for that campfire drops mirrored boots which gives me a use for my sol runes. I'll probably rack 1-3 GF swords before moving on (I already have 1 from my 99er)
Forgot this gave +2 defensive auras so I stuck it on my 'prayer' cow mule
edit: finally got a colossus blade rack (have to cast hydra) and the one beside it for that campfire drops mirrored boots which gives me a use for my sol runes. I'll probably rack 1-3 GF swords before moving on (I already have 1 from my 99er)
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Browsing through some rings, I found this, which should be impossible from what we know about 1.07 crafting:
Viper Band
Ring
Required Level: 43
Item Version: Expansion
Item Level: 98
Fingerprint: 0x69ba5a64
+13 to Strength
+18 to Life
+99 to Mana
+98 to Attack Rating
5% Life stolen per hit
+1 to Mana After Each Kill
Level 2 Attract (20/25 Charges)
Sadly, I have NO idea what caused it =(
Viper Band
Ring
Required Level: 43
Item Version: Expansion
Item Level: 98
Fingerprint: 0x69ba5a64
+13 to Strength
+18 to Life
+99 to Mana
+98 to Attack Rating
5% Life stolen per hit
+1 to Mana After Each Kill
Level 2 Attract (20/25 Charges)
Sadly, I have NO idea what caused it =(
But the implication is that you CAN get +2 class skills on crafted amulets, and also some other sought after affixes on lesser crafts. D2 has much randomness, but surprisingly little when it comes to ilvl. AFAIK, only gambling has any kind of randomness with regards to ilvl.
Yes true. Maybe someone just needs to test 1000 amulets to see if any +2 class skill ammies spawn.
It would take considerably longer but they could also just do 100-200 crafts checking the ilvl afterwards (again for testing purposes). i'm too lazy to do so, atm, and I also used up all my lum + ko runes recently.
It would take considerably longer but they could also just do 100-200 crafts checking the ilvl afterwards (again for testing purposes). i'm too lazy to do so, atm, and I also used up all my lum + ko runes recently.
