1.00 News, Info and Gossip

Albatross

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Mar 17, 2020
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I'm tolerating muling atm but only because I only mule gems that I will forward (1.07) onto some generate-as-I-go mules and flawless/perfect gems are kept in 1.00. I'm not really bothering with cubing/touching anything else.

level 51 in NM RoF and it looks like mules get good enough exp to keep them with me for a few more levels. I've finally maxed the mastery and BO and even have multiple points in natural resistance, so I guess my next points will go in WW.. Or at least a handful of them for now.

Hephasto is quite scary in NM!
They don't say Hephasto is a nightmare for no reason. So how high are you going to go until hell maggots?
well I figured I would just get to 54+ when I think the maggots in NM are too low of a level for good exp (I don't care too much for my mules' levels). Then I may do NM cows or maybe normal cows (these were better for rings mods, right?) to get some rare rings. i'm still using a blue one with mana leech and lite res

edit: and a better pike couldn't hurt... still using the same one I got from normal cow king with 145 max dmg, 9% life leech. I've been trying to gamble them, too.
Has anyone made a backup of the old lurker lounge? (http://www.network54.com/Forum/31101)
I'd hate for it to suddenly disappear, as I sometimes go digging in there.

As for the progress on bloodbag, he's currently stuck at hell Diablo. I've been leveling a bit, currently lv 54. But as tough as diablo was in nightmare and normal, in hell he's really tough, with just a blood golem and iron maiden. The fight is a hellacious walking-on-eggshells experience. So much so that a took a couple-week break from 1.00.

I don't know why so many classic guides talk about how good revives are. Their AI is terrible and they only last three minutes. You can run several screens away before the revived monsters even think about following you (according to the minimap). I put one point in revive (which is brought up to 4 from items). The revived monsters don't seem to help at all with Diablo, they die pretty fast. Abyss knights, doom knights, venom lords, doesn't seem to matter.
Got to level 55! (almost 56) killing maggots. My other mules gained 6 levels in that time so they're stuck at 36 now. That'll have to do
36 is good for gambling boots, I think. On my phone atm so can't check.
I remember reading 35ish so you're probably right. I'd have to get money without leveling further...
Not for gambling. Muling gold is a LOT less hassle than muling a bunch of gems.
at least boots are cheap I guess
Check this out. Wasn't able to record more than one run per video file, which would make it a lot of hassle to make the 0 to 1.340.000 video I wanted, but you'll get the idea about the map you want:

EDIT: And if you check the IFT just now, you'll see that I'm past the stage where I save all gold for amulets ;)
Ok, I'm already seeing (small) issues with mana on /p1 for my barb with only a few points in WW.

Are there any other 1 pt wonders I should be using? find item?

zerk? (is it a safe alternative to leap attack? I hate left clicking and I hate leaping even more)
Zerk is unsafe, as the % damage is only added to the physical damage already there, which can still kill you.

Find item is absolutely terrible. White items and no gold only, IIRC. I've put several points into it, but I *just* reached lvl 90 and have a lot of points to spare. I'm doing increased speed or something now, I think.

WW solution is usually to substitute frostburns for whatever current gloves.
Still using hands of broc so maybe I'll try that. It's not a big issue at the moment but when I start gaining more levels I don't like sitting on points doing nothing with them so maybe 1-2 more points in incr speed is worth doing. Nat res is already giving me [email protected] iirc and I figure I may eventually have + skills to boost that even further.
Max Bo
Max mastery
Max WW (but don't rush this one if low mana pool)
1 in almost everything else. Skip whatever masteries now, as you're already at WW
2+ in nat res, increased speed

leftover points should probably go into Iron Skin (shout has too low duration)
ya I stopped using shout altogether since BO only boosts max life/mana on casting.. so it felt like a waste of mana
RIP count grapes

JK he's just a Duke now :D

Diablo dropped like 8 items. Crazy
uh oh new crashing issue upon trying to enter this tomb in hell. I made the staff and cubed it in advance (as normal).
View attachment 5800

It didn't crash on my second attempt, in which I went back to town to talk to Drognan to complete whatever quest that does (summoner?) and moved the staff from cube (in inventory already) into just my inventory.
Never had that one before. From the 1.01 patch notes:
Code:
- Fixed the following 3 bugs that could occasionally crash the game:
  (...)
  - In Perspective mode Glide entering a Tomb in the Canyon
    of the Magi (Act II).
I might give 1.01 a try considering the number of bugs it fixed. The only nerf was the WW damage bonus, but the mana cost was also cut in half. You still have infinite Cow King, Maggot leveling, etc.
mana cost cut in half!?

Well maybe but I just reached RoF in hell so I'll be pushing that a bit.

How much str/dex will I MAYBE need in the future? Is it worth saving some str for ornate plates or anything? I'm sitting at 100 (I think) before +stats. Currently level 59
I would just go with enough for the pike unless you want to move up and use a Lance. Defense is useless so I wouldn't bother with Ornate Plates. Most of the nice leech gear is low end with requirements anyway. Dump everything into vita. With enough leech mana isn't a problem, even when WW is costing 63 a pop.

And yeah, 1.01 rebalanced a number of skills. Pretty much all of them were beefed up except WW. The damage bonus AND mana cost per level was cut in half. So a level 20 WW is something like 100% DMG 35 Mana instead of 200% DMG 63 Mana.
 

Albatross

Active member
Mar 17, 2020
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Hmm.. Heads up: if your weapon breaks you may have to re-equip it for the AR or other bonuses. At least, the character screen showed a way lower AR than usual and it was "fixed" (again, I don't know if it's actually lower or not) after re-equipping my pike.

Hopefully this means I will hit more often!

BTW what was the level for best chance of gambling good rings/boots/whatever? 35? 36? I figure I'll level my lowest mule (now 20) to there and stop it.

Also, for sorcs what skill should I be using for end-game viability (rushing, maggots, normal cow king, etc.)? FOrb or firewall or?

Currently maxing static and already maxed warmth
I noticed that too, pharphis. My damage would drop to 1-3 as well, but I think it was a display error only as I was still mowing things down.

Been a while since I had an update, but my Barb is now in Act IV Hell, smashing maggots. Only level 57 but getting there. I started an Amazon and she's level 18. My idea is to use Multi, Strafe and Freezing Arrow with as much Crushing Blow as I can. Basically use CB+MS/Strafe as a kind of physical version of Static Field and then pick them off with FA. Will this work? And are there any sources of CB other than Goblin Toe and Rattlecage? I know ED on Bows is bugged, but I've read (helvete's guide, naturally) that Strafe is bugged in favour of the player - any details on how this works?

I still want to try a FoH Pally, but haven't had much play time lately.
I did always want to try FoH w/o casting delay but with such little fcr power... I wonder how good it could be. Perhaps I'll make a char just for this eventually.
What is the favored weapon for barbs? I am leaning towards a pike since they have great damage and can be failed unique rolled, whereas no exceptional rares, like ancient axes, can be. I imagine swords would be good for the goldfind potential, but I also wonder if you would even need to spec for swords to pair patriarchs with crushing blow. Looking forward to trying 1.00 some though. Level 7 so far!
Also, in relation to my last post, are the damage numbers of base weapons the same as present day or were any of them adjusted? Since lances are out I suppose exceptional polearms would be another option for a ww barb, not sure if they would be necessary though, or how hard they are to farm.
All exceptionals which try to roll unique will fail, and become 5x durability. My vote still goes to pike, though.
I usually prefer Low Quality hand axes to do some ub3r h4x pwnge.

On a serious note it's the range that makes pikes so awesome. Hence why blizzard factored weapon speed in the expansion. They wanted to ruin the skill. Even in 1.06 I wouldn't give up a Lance for Martel or Ancient Axe, the range is to good.

Just a quick runby on the ranges:
Short weapons: 0-1
Medium weapons: 2
Longer weapons: 3
Brandistock, War Scythe, Spetum, Pike, Halberd: 4
I think I will go with a pike. Too bad lances can't spawn to be used with ww at its pinnacle. I did score a death's belt in the Den so that is handy, though it is nearly broken and I have gambled my savings away! Thanks for the input. 1.00 has been fun with its quirks so far.
One thing that sold Pikes for me was that those are quite easy to get from normal Cow King. Once you get that far, you can pretty must steamroll through the game with WW Barb :)
Hmm.. does Hephasto randomly heal? Is his health bar messed up on high p settings?

I very slowly got him down to just a sliver (it has been several hours of killing maggots and running into him sometimes) but when I went back to town to remove curse and approach him again he had full HP :/
Bugged to oblivion. You'd notice the same with izual. And the exp bar. And probably all act bosses.
And with random mobs too. espessially the vultures in a3 (LK) they are also bugged and reheal.
Anyway, going up against Hephasto is not advised in HC. The quest reward just isn't worth the risk, as gems are next to useless in 1.00 and can be gotten so easily from maggot young.
I already got the quest but I like the area (fills with maggots easily) he's in so it would be nice to kill him in higher p setting games if possible :p

That said, I started noticing the bugged exp bar around lvl 72 or 73. It seems accurate until about 60% of a level (I don't watch it intently) and then skips to being nearly empty until the next level actually happens, then repeats being mostly right for half a level...

Anyway, my barb is 76 or 77 now. The last game I made I didn't get my mules any exp (they're sitting around 47) so leveling was pretty fast! Basically 4 trips to town per level since only 25 durability on my pike... (each trip is less than 2.5 mins based on BO timing if i'm whirling through maggots for most of it, as well as picking up items)

edit: anyone have silks stats handy? I'm curious about defense and what else it has other than skill + leech
Meet Lady Venus
View attachment 5804
She became bored because Lord Pluto has apparently been bit by a gold fever and never has time to level his earlier friends anymore...

I plan to play some with this Sorc now by herself, then rush a batch of characters to the Hell RoF and the other barb can do the leveling, I guess. If I even feel the need, probably at least one from the newer characters to thirty something for gambling purposes.

The pic above has her stats in Hell with ALL stat points saved (+ no Lam Esen's nor Golden Bird quest done). My question is, with how little life she will be fine in Hell? I believe she will be eventually able to get maxed res. Dual SoJs and her FCR stands at five points now (Magefist, Wall and a rare wand), FHR has one fast from the belt and her boots has the fastest. Maxed Warmth, all the pre-requirements, some static, couple Orb, one mastery and one ES for now. For the next levels I'll be bumping Static and some Orb I guess.

I'll probably start with sinking at least 100 points to mana so this gets a bit smoother. It was funny to see she could already handle the Hell Den without any hard stat points, lol.
@pharphis
View attachment 5805
..yea

If I was HC, I wouldn't probably have the guts to meet that angry dude with a hammer down by the River of Flame. At least clear him out before taking more characters to the game?
Ya that's what I should do but I also like to have the big maggots with high HP in case I hit them a few times.

Oh well, not like I keep these games open for more than a few hours., Until I get a 75 dura wep I don't think I need maggots to spawn any faster
For leveling the barb alone, you'll probably be better off just running a pack of 4 champs repeatedly. Around lvl 80 is when that becomes the more effective option, IIRC. Also, high level killer means less exp for mules, but there is a trick to this: Don't party the mules. They'll only get egg pop exp, but that exp will be unfiltered through the level penalties.

Also, you'll be pleased to hear that there are no 75 dura pikes. They're 125 when failed unique.
derp I keep thinking it's 3x. Is it 3x in later versions?

and of course that sounds more efficient.. I was planning on giving the mules exp but just never got around to letting them sit inside the RoF lol.
So, I experimented with forwarding items directly from 1.00 to 1.13. And what I found is that set items are really the only things worth bringing forward in time (at least in this bugged way). Milabrega's Rod for some reason yielded a scepter that adds +1 to sorceress skills instead of paladin.

I did had some rare items that had unusual stats from the abrupt forwarding but nothing terribly noteworthy. there was a rare belt that had +105 to life, and some rare boots that had +76 fire res.

not sure why that would have happened on rare items. if anyone has some insight into that please let me know.

attached are some pics of set items forwarded from 1.00->1.13
 

Albatross

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Mar 17, 2020
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That's very interesting. As mentioned before, items in classic do not save their stats and they generate each game. So they get their correct stats when brought to 1.07-1.09. If you bring unique items directly to 1.09 they get their 1.09 stats. For some reason it messes up in 1.10 though. This might have to do with "save bits" for each stat on the item. It is possible that, it does generate from the old affix pool but uses the incorrect bits which causes funky values (105 life, 76 fire res) for that stat. Just speculation...
I want to see 100 str on a belt heh
It might be possible to find out what converts to what and find that perfect rare that gives you +7 skills +100 str :)
Here are the two rare items i found that "morph" into impossible items. I included the gomule readout so you can see the fingerprint, if that helps anyone.

edit: also of note is that if you use one of the morphed set items with another item of the proper set, you don't get partial set bonuses. not sure why.
One of the problems is pre-lod items uses a dual-fingerprint. They took this out in the expansion to just be one fingerprint. Maybe the item gets two rolls with two fingerprints, allows for it to roll Fire Res twice thus getting you 76%.
I also tried morphing some magic items. But nothing noteworthy happened. I wanted to find one of the magic affixes that no longer exists, like the "devious" prefix for shields and see if that did anything but, i couldn't find one to shop.

edit: found a "devious" small shield and forwarded it to 1.13. nothing special happened. disregard.
Whilst toying around with items in an editor to see what stats morph, I found out some new info regarding dupes. If you manage to find an item with the same UID (such as killing the cow king in the same spot), the dupe will be deleted when brought to 1.06. This is bad news.

The good news? 1.06/1.06b is the ONLY patch that deletes these dupes. 1.05b and 1.07+ do not. I remember reading somewhere someone said 1.06 was just a dupe patch and they were right. So in other words, all along we've been forwarding our 1.00 characters to 1.06b. Don't do that! Forward them to 1.05b instead. The only thing 1.06 did was literally dupe detection and cd drive fix. Use 1.05b for cubing rare amulets!

@pharphis @helvete I'm tagging you guys in this since it's relevant to the guides and pharphis asked about it.
What does devious do?
oh that's big info!
"Devious" was magic damage reduced by 1. Ended up getting replaced by the suffix "of warding" I guess. Here's what that shield turned into upon being taken directly to 1.13.
Sooo close but not quite. We are about to uncover something that has been hidden for 17 years!



NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

....crash :(
Just to check: even though the exp bar is borked after 70ish, I can trust the numbers, right? It seems accurate so far
I noticed if I use leap attack in melee range it does not use mana. I know the 1.00 guide says it is counted as a missile attack, is that still the case if I don't leap and mana is not used? Is it just doing a regular attack when I don't jump?
Yeah the numbers are accurate. It's just the bar. This is clearly a side effect of them raising the max level past 50. Notice how the bar gets buggy after level 50 XP in the beta?

Code:
          Beta            Final
40        58277610        19235252
41        72847010        21376515
42        91058760        23710491
43        113823450       26254525
44        142279310       29027522
45        177849140       32050088
46        222311420       35344686
47        277889280       38935798
48        347361600       42850109
49        434202000       47116709
50        542752480       51767302
MAXEXP    2000000001      3837739017
I think the bar counts exp "unfiltered" through penalties. The bar fills up way too fast.
I see my old gold find barb is mentioned quite a few times here which is fun to see. Looks like many are getting their gold find up to the magical number. :)

As I previously mentioned, the Patriach's really worked for me even though the damage seems very low so I never bothered swapping them for a high end rare. In the big picture one might argue you can gain more gold per hour with a high damaging weapon, but I was never convinced that the speed made up for the loss of gold find. I also found it more fun to use dual Patriarch. :D Also the higher level I got the better chance to hit, which in turn speeds up the run.

One thing I would love to have you test is whether or not one should get more dexterity to increase hit chance instead of vitality. Strength really doesn't matter that much since the damage is so low already on the two swords, but I was nowhere close to dying at any time honestly and the increased hit chance could speed things up (and steal more life!).

As everyone has mentioned by now the map itself is what makes most impact. Change the route a little if you want to manipulate drop seeds. I have found literally identical rare items due to running the same route 1000+ times. I also recall having popables on maps which dropped Superior Harpoons, which for some reason I remember were quite common on many different map seeds. They stacked up quite nice in my inventory and sold for a good amount of gold.

By the way, in regards to dual leech rings and gold find. Know that it is possible to get dual leech amulets with gold find too! :)

I sparsely still browse these forums even though I quit playing two years ago or so, but I am happy to answer or help if anyone want to know something about 1.00. I played it for many many years, but picked it up almost exclusively from 2009/2010 until I quit in 2015. It just was too much fun! ^_^

Edit:
Some very good discussion about 1.00 here which should be read: https://www.diabloii.net/forums/threads/1-00-fcr-breakpoints.922343/.

And this thread is when I discovered duplicate items with same seed. Not much of a discussion in 2009 on 1.00 though :(: https://www.diabloii.net/forums/threads/diablo-1-00-oddness.747133/.

And there should be a bounty for whoever finds out how to exploit this:
https://www.diabloii.net/forums/threads/question-regarding-the-1-00-1-03-wear-anything-bug.845034/.
Ok, I'll just create a new reply and not edit the one above again as this is a very different subject.

Warning: wall of text!! But please read it all if you are interested in impossible items. :)



Yes, I guess I can share my research on this matter. As I have explained in https://www.diabloii.net/forums/threads/bugged-deaths-guard-sash.936696/page-2#post-8778812 I have literally every unique and set item converted to 1.10+ and did a lot of research on rare items as well.

I have honestly never shared this information because I know how conservative this community is with exploits and what not, especially back when I discovered this. While I cherish exploits that are possible without any third party or game modification (such as dual wielding staves and what not in 1.07) I have seen outbursts from respectable members of the community when it comes to these kind of things.

However, I might as well share it now. We are in 2017 and I am sorry I never brought this up before... let me present to you some very interesting and 100% legitimate items from 1.00 converted directly to 1.10+ (1.11b in this case IIRC).

Found my old notes from the research I did on the subject and in my laboratory environment I converted the following amount of rares only for scientific purposes:

Antall boots overført: 500+
Antall belts overført: 500+
Antall helms overført: 150+
Antall gloves overført: 250+
Antall armors overført: 50+
Antall shields overført: 50+
Antall rings overført: 500+
Antall amulets overført: 150+
Antall våpen overført: 50+
Antall wands overført: 50+
Antall staves overført: 20+
Antall scepters overført: 30+

Pardon the Norwegian, but it's translated as "number [item] transferred". So quite a bunch of items, but honestly no where close to the sample one require to find the real potential of these items.

Let's warm up with what has potential with impossible items when kept in classic 1.10+.

50% attack speed weapon
View attachment 5818

77% GF ring
View attachment 5821

100% poison length reduction! ^_^
View attachment 5817

+2 sorc 1 hander
View attachment 5822

+2 sorc shield
View attachment 5823

While these properties only have real potential in classic 1.10+, it still very cool.

A sorc can have +4 skills with a 2sorc/20 FCR scepter (and potentially 60+ resistance and 100+ mana from what I have seen on other scepters) and a 2sorc/30/20/60+ resistance shield and why not poison immunity too with 100% poison length reduction? :D.

Unfortunately, only +sorc skills are possible. Paladin skills become sorceress skills when converted, and vice-versa.

The 50% IAS on weapons could potentially mean one could have more attack speed on bows as well which could be a big deal in classic 1.10+. I guess some weapons might hit a faster breakpoint for WW too, and it's generally nice with more IAS of course.

Having impossible GF on rings in classic helps with GF builds of course in 1.10+.


Now the properties that have potential in LOD.

44% MF rare amulet and 31% MF rare ring
View attachment 5819
Maximum ten images, but the ring has +104 AR/+4 STR/+8 mana/+31% MF and +3 Light radius.

151 GF boots
View attachment 5816

As you probably have realized, it looks like it spawns with magic item only affixes on these impossible rare items, combining affixes from the same group. More on that later though.

And 151% GF boots of course have potential as well.

Speaking of potential, these are nice! :)
View attachment 5824
View attachment 5825

Yup, these are indeed very possible. When I got these gloves in particular it got me thinking, which I will get back to right underneath here with my theory.

Some simple observations
Please excuse the scrambled thoughts, but these are all from my old notes (although translated for you! :)):

First of all, the same item will produce the same item in 1.10+. So it is very consistent in that regard. If you were to have a pair of identical items they would both end up the same. That's good I guess for whoever wants to reproduce and look more into consistency between affixes before and after conversion.

The name of the rare item remains many times and changes many times. Not seen any pattern here, and I am not sure I really care.

Even though a pair gloves end up with 54% lightning resistance it doesn't mean the original need to have any sort of resistance or anything remotely similar at all. According to my observations it seems very random and inconsistent even after trying to reproduce items with similar affixes before conversion which end up completely different.

Items seem to spawn randomly with either pre-lod or lod affix. For instance two different converted belts could end up with 20% FHR and 24% FHR respectively. This is kind of interesting, seeing as the +2 sorceress shield should be very impossible seeing as +2 paladin is not possible to spawn on shields (only amulets) in classic, so it must have picked the LOD affix for +2 paladin but then changed it to +2 sorc...

The n-1 affix bug seem to remain on items when converted and when it picks from the pre-lod affix table.

No item have been observed to break the 6-affix rule on rare items.

Impossible skills (such as smite or holy shield on scepters) can be rolled in 1.10+, so it doesn't follow normal item generation (which I guess is obvious).


Now...
..back to what is the most interesting with this whole thing and my theory of this whole thing.

I have a theory that the converted item for some reason picks affixes from either the pre-lod affix table or lod affix table.

Or both!!!! :eek:

Back to the 49% magic find gloves. Magic find can only spawn as a suffix on gloves. In fact, even combining both suffixes that are available for gloves (chance [15%] and fortune [25%]) one would not be able to get 49%. What I suspect is that the item has spawned with the fortune suffix from the pre-lod affix table and the fortune suffix from the lod affix table, making 49% possible.

This also explains having a rare amulet with 44% MF or a rare ring with 31% MF. So instead of the 44% MF amulet spawning with affixes from the same affix group (of one which is reserved for magic items only), for instance with both the fortune and luck suffix (which could have 60% max MF) I think the amulet actually spawned with a combination of fortune + fortune or fortune + luck suffix from pre-lod and lod affix tables respectively. This mean it could potentially spawn with luck + luck meaning a maximum of 69% MF (n-1 bug on pre-lod affix) on rare amulet. This then means that the rare items cannot spawn with magic only affixes when converted.

This means the maximum fire resistance on boots would be pre-lod affix 49% + lod affix 40% meaning 89% and belts could have 119 life.

I don't think one affix can spawn twice from the same table, because I would probably see many more instances of this from my sample pool as it would make the chance many times greater.

As you can tell from the items with impossible stats, they never have 6 affixes. I believe that when the game picks the same affix from both tables they count as two affixes, such as 50% IAS on the Martel (meaning it could potentially be 80% IAS!!).

I have images of the original items too, but I think whoever wants to look more into this should look more into the original items and consistency, and perhaps what happens with magic items and their affixes.

Now this is of course just my theory, I would love to have someone look more into this.

Basically, this means that boots with 199% GF, 30 FRW and 89 fire resistance is possible. Or boots with 69% magic find, FRW and resistance to fire, cold and lightning...

It means that gloves with 49% MF, 15 strength and 40 to fire, cold and lightning resistance is possible. Weapons could additionally spawn with a lot more damage to be kept in classic.

It also means that wands or scepters with 40% FCR and 4 skills should be able to spawn!!!


Or even ****** rings with 20% FCR!!!


.....



Excuse me while I kiss the sky. :cool:

View attachment 5826

Yes, you see that right. You can actually spawn rings with 20% FCR and 4 more affixes from either table.

You can even in theory spawn a +3 and 4 skill / 20 FCR amulet, with 1 more prefix and 1 more suffix from either affix table!!

I recon these will be the most sought after items from 1.00 soon enough, as these will indeed be pre-lod exclusive. I only saw one ring with 20% FCR, and no amulets with either 20% FCR or more than +2 skills, but again my sample wasn't very big. Although I guess rings and amulets will be most interesting with this bug, there is obviously potential with other items as well.

With more research and persistence I am confident someone will manage to find something very clever with these potentially broken items.

Have fun experimenting! ^_^
O... K....

Well, that would be another GOOD reason to ban pre-LoD items from trade.

Especially the possible (but unlikely) +4/20 amulet would be the most valuable item ever.

Other valuable stacked stats would be FRW, if 70% FRW can be made on a good pair...
Wow! That is certainly really cool. I had kind of hoped there was someone out there who had done more research into this bug, because I was just now starting to think about maybe getting further into it. So, thanks for coming forward.

At the moment though, it seems like just rolling the dice and converting a /lot/ of rares is the only real way to get ones with impossible stats. Unless someone is able to reverse-engineer exactly how it works. e.g., which affixes turn into which affixes exactly, and how to predict how and when similar affixes will stack.

As far as set items, the most interesting one I've come across is the Milabrega's Rod that turned into +1 sorc skills and acquired the name and level req of Cleglaw's Tooth. Required level 4 for +1 sorc skills is pretty cool, although a strength requirement of 55 is pretty steep to be a powerful twinking item.
So I had to check... It happens to me too:
View attachment 5827 View attachment 5828

Thank heavens, I have so many characters with only 6 str ;)

....the boots could be pretty interesting, though.
 

Albatross

Active member
Mar 17, 2020
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Wow those are some nice boots! I definitely think imakeigloospat was onto something. Maybe that's why the stats are broken, because they pick from both classic and lod affix pools. I had thought they only generated from the new pool.

By the way, it will be impossible to see what converts to what. Because if this is the case, it is entirely random based on the item's fingerprint. Thus, the only way would be to "brute-force" all 4,294,967,295 (0xffffffff) fingerprints and see what stats they generate. Still worth the fun though!
Well, I'm not selling off another rare for the time being. Even if only for self use, and not possible to bring to 1.07, some of these items will be worth it.
I would kill for 70 frw in 1.07 lol. Too bad this is only 1.10+ right?

@imakeigloospat you tried similar items (in terms of affixes) but did you ever test identical items? ie same seed and stats? Since we know those are possible and relatively easy to get (should take less than 50 cow runs in normal to get a few pairs) this might be very powerful indeed.


20% fcr ring is so OP

edit: does ilvl affect what's available from either pool? Maybe you can get a much smaller pool of options (like ilvl 5 or whatever for those mpk rings in 1.07)...

edit: maybe someone can mule and gamble a bunch of clvl 1 rares to see what happens?
Yes, as I wrote in my notes: identical items will be identical even after conversion! :)

About ilvl I am honestly not sure, never thought about it honestly and that's a very good point. One would need a high ilvl to get +4 skill / 20% FCR amulet, and I probably didn't test with a lot of high ilvl amulets..

And yes, this only applies to 1.10+. I assume it works in beta versions of 1.10 although I have not tested.
oops must have missed that somehow.

Well I think it's clear that ilvl testing is probably the highest priority. Low ilvl testing is the easiest thing to check because of the (probably) smaller pool of affixes, we can be statistically confident fairly quickly if that is indeed the case. Then we can get rares of various ilvl ranges to see whether ilvl matters for 1.00 vs 1.10 or both affix pools. Well, this might become obvious while testing low ilvl as well.

With all that figured out, we should have a good idea for what ilvl ranges are most optimal.
I could probably generate 40 random rare ilvl 1 amulets to transfer over, but I don't have Diablo 2 installed now. That would probably confirm if ilvl is relevant or not immediately.

I'll see what I can do.

Edit:
What does one not do for some Diablo 2 science... :)

I have been able to confirm that the ilvl both matters and is directly transfered as well with the item when converted. So an ilvl 95 1.00 item will remain ilvl 95 after it is transfered to 1.10+.

I generated 40 rare ilvl 1 rings in 1.00 which I then transfered to 1.11b and here's the result.

Skull Gyre
Ring
Required Level: 3
Fingerprint: 0x44b25853
Item Level: 1
Version: Legacy (pre 1.08)
+1 to Maximum Damage
+16 to Attack Rating
+1 to Dexterity
+1 to Mana
29% Extra Gold from Monsters

Death Turn
Ring
Required Level: 12
Fingerprint: 0x109a3e2e
Item Level: 1
Version: Legacy (pre 1.08)
+1 to Maximum Damage
+9 Maximum Stamina
Fire Resist +5%
48% Extra Gold from Monsters
+1 to Light Radius

Death Coil
Ring
Required Level: 12
Fingerprint: 0x361567e0
Item Level: 1
Version: Legacy (pre 1.08)
+10 to Attack Rating
+1 to Strength
+1 to Mana after each Kill
43% Extra Gold from Monsters
+1 to Light Radius

Ghoul Circle
Ring
Required Level: 12
Fingerprint: 0x513711f6
Item Level: 1
Version: Legacy (pre 1.08)
+9 Maximum Stamina
86% Extra Gold from Monsters
+1 to Light Radius

Viper Coil
Ring
Required Level: 2
Fingerprint: 0x16a43a8b
Item Level: 1
Version: Legacy (pre 1.08)
+1 to Dexterity
Lightning Resist +5%
+1 to Mana after each Kill
29% Extra Gold from Monsters

Skull Gyre
Ring
Required Level: 12
Fingerprint: 0x1c725eba
Item Level: 1
Version: Legacy (pre 1.08)
+10 to Attack Rating
+1 to Energy
Fire Resist +5%
45% Extra Gold from Monsters
+1 to Light Radius

Wraith Finger
Ring
Required Level: 3
Fingerprint: 0x51b70f14
Item Level: 1
Version: Legacy (pre 1.08)
+1 to Maximum Damage
+1 to Dexterity
+1 to Mana
+1 to Light Radius

Raven Loop
Ring
Required Level: 3
Fingerprint: 0x332809cc
Item Level: 1
Version: Legacy (pre 1.08)
+1 to Maximum Damage
+21 to Attack Rating
+1 to Dexterity
+1 to Mana
+1 to Mana after each Kill
+1 to Light Radius

Shadow Coil
Ring
Required Level: 12
Fingerprint: 0x19ee44d6
Item Level: 1
Version: Legacy (pre 1.08)
+10 to Attack Rating
+2 to Life
+3 to Mana
+5 Maximum Stamina
Cold Resist +5%
44% Extra Gold from Monsters
+1 to Light Radius

Rune Grip
Ring
Required Level: 12
Fingerprint: 0x71d7f74
Item Level: 1
Version: Legacy (pre 1.08)
+1 to Maximum Damage
+1 to Energy
Cold Resist +5%
Lightning Resist +5%
54% Extra Gold from Monsters

Grim Coil
Ring
Required Level: 4
Fingerprint: 0x1d3f1090
Item Level: 1
Version: Legacy (pre 1.08)
+1 to Maximum Damage
+11 to Attack Rating
+1 to Dexterity
+4 to Life
+4 to Mana
Fire Resist +5%

Bone Grip
Ring
Required Level: 3
Fingerprint: 0x49cd1387
Item Level: 1
Version: Legacy (pre 1.08)
+1 to Maximum Damage
+15 to Attack Rating
+1 to Strength
+1 to Energy
+1 to Mana after each Kill

Chaos Touch
Ring
Required Level: 12
Fingerprint: 0x4c0e0c3a
Item Level: 1
Version: Legacy (pre 1.08)
+10 to Attack Rating
+1 to Life
Cold Resist +5%
+1 to Mana after each Kill
47% Extra Gold from Monsters
+1 to Light Radius

Death Turn
Ring
Required Level: 3
Fingerprint: 0x2407b95
Item Level: 1
Version: Legacy (pre 1.08)
+1 to Maximum Damage
+10 to Attack Rating
+1 to Dexterity
+4 to Mana
Cold Resist +5%
+1 to Light Radius

Order Hold
Ring
Required Level: 12
Fingerprint: 0x3f2a532c
Item Level: 1
Version: Legacy (pre 1.08)
+10 to Attack Rating
+1 to Energy
51% Extra Gold from Monsters
+2 to Light Radius

Plague Loop
Ring
Required Level: 12
Fingerprint: 0x1b221d18
Item Level: 1
Version: Legacy (pre 1.08)
+19 to Attack Rating
+1 to Strength
+1 to Mana after each Kill
94% Extra Gold from Monsters
+1 to Light Radius

Skull Band
Ring
Required Level: 12
Fingerprint: 0x73ad7859
Item Level: 1
Version: Legacy (pre 1.08)
+1 to Maximum Damage
Cold Resist +5%
Fire Resist +5%
+1 to Mana after each Kill
46% Extra Gold from Monsters

Order Eye
Ring
Required Level: 2
Fingerprint: 0x4c741905
Item Level: 1
Version: Legacy (pre 1.08)
+10 to Attack Rating
+1 to Mana
+2 to Mana after each Kill
+1 to Light Radius

Viper Grip
Ring
Required Level: 4
Fingerprint: 0x21044a6d
Item Level: 1
Version: Legacy (pre 1.08)
+1 to Maximum Damage
+1 to Strength
+3 to Life
+7 Maximum Stamina
+2 to Mana after each Kill

Havoc Touch
Ring
Required Level: 4
Fingerprint: 0x308e2fa4
Item Level: 1
Version: Legacy (pre 1.08)
+1 to Maximum Damage
+1 to Mana
Poison Resist +5%
+1 to Light Radius

Havoc Grip
Ring
Required Level: 1
Fingerprint: 0x2cb41a16
Item Level: 1
Version: Legacy (pre 1.08)
+10 to Attack Rating
+1 to Strength
+1 to Dexterity
Lightning Resist +5%
Poison Resist +5%
+1 to Mana after each Kill
+1 to Light Radius

Order Band
Ring
Required Level: 3
Fingerprint: 0x4a491aae
Item Level: 1
Version: Legacy (pre 1.08)
+1 to Maximum Damage
+10 to Attack Rating
+1 to Dexterity
+8 Maximum Stamina
+1 to Light Radius

Raven Finger
Ring
Required Level: 4
Fingerprint: 0x9720bd
Item Level: 1
Version: Legacy (pre 1.08)
+1 to Maximum Damage
+3 to Life
+2 to Mana after each Kill
25% Extra Gold from Monsters

Dread Turn
Ring
Required Level: 3
Fingerprint: 0x528920f2
Item Level: 1
Version: Legacy (pre 1.08)
+24 to Attack Rating
+1 to Dexterity
+1 to Energy
+1 to Mana
+1 to Mana after each Kill
+1 to Light Radius

Beast Band
Ring
Required Level: 1
Fingerprint: 0x1b9f4a77
Item Level: 1
Version: Legacy (pre 1.08)
+17 to Attack Rating
+1 to Strength
Cold Resist +5%
Poison Resist +5%
36% Extra Gold from Monsters

Storm Master
Ring
Required Level: 2
Fingerprint: 0x5d863e14
Item Level: 1
Version: Legacy (pre 1.08)
+23 to Attack Rating
+1 to Energy
Lightning Resist +5%
+1 to Mana after each Kill
+1 to Light Radius

Rune Gyre
Ring
Required Level: 4
Fingerprint: 0x6a6613f7
Item Level: 1
Version: Legacy (pre 1.08)
+10 to Attack Rating
+1 to Energy
+4 to Life
+1 to Mana
+1 to Mana after each Kill
+2 to Light Radius

Entropy Grasp
Ring
Required Level: 4
Fingerprint: 0x5c7d1224
Item Level: 1
Version: Legacy (pre 1.08)
+1 to Strength
+1 to Dexterity
+1 to Energy
Cold Resist +5%
+1 to Light Radius

Grim Touch
Ring
Required Level: 3
Fingerprint: 0x1c1275cb
Item Level: 1
Version: Legacy (pre 1.08)
+1 to Maximum Damage
Lightning Resist +5%
Fire Resist +5%
+1 to Light Radius

Corruption Turn
Ring
Required Level: 4
Fingerprint: 0x3eb33823
Item Level: 1
Version: Legacy (pre 1.08)
+3 to Life
+1 to Mana
+8 Maximum Stamina
Poison Resist +5%
34% Extra Gold from Monsters

Beast Spiral
Ring
Required Level: 12
Fingerprint: 0x115a0828
Item Level: 1
Version: Legacy (pre 1.08)
+1 to Strength
Poison Resist +5%
86% Extra Gold from Monsters
+1 to Light Radius

Blood Coil
Ring
Required Level: 3
Fingerprint: 0xcf06fa8
Item Level: 1
Version: Legacy (pre 1.08)
+1 to Maximum Damage
+1 to Energy
+1 to Mana
Lightning Resist +5%

Storm Knot
Ring
Required Level: 12
Fingerprint: 0x7eab370d
Item Level: 1
Version: Legacy (pre 1.08)
+1 to Energy
+5 Maximum Stamina
+1 to Mana after each Kill
78% Extra Gold from Monsters

Doom Grip
Ring
Required Level: 3
Fingerprint: 0x5cdb0548
Item Level: 1
Version: Legacy (pre 1.08)
+1 to Maximum Damage
+1 to Strength
+1 to Mana
33% Extra Gold from Monsters

Blood Touch
Ring
Required Level: 1
Fingerprint: 0x37bc1492
Item Level: 1
Version: Legacy (pre 1.08)
+3 to Mana
+9 Maximum Stamina
30% Extra Gold from Monsters

Storm Hold
Ring
Required Level: 1
Fingerprint: 0x75e1666f
Item Level: 1
Version: Legacy (pre 1.08)
+10 to Attack Rating
+1 to Strength
+1 to Energy
Poison Resist +5%
+2 to Light Radius

Plague Touch
Ring
Required Level: 1
Fingerprint: 0x2a182789
Item Level: 1
Version: Legacy (pre 1.08)
+1 to Strength
+1 to Dexterity
+1 to Mana
Cold Resist +5%
Lightning Resist +5%
38% Extra Gold from Monsters

Stone Knot
Ring
Required Level: 4
Fingerprint: 0x78b20c4
Item Level: 1
Version: Legacy (pre 1.08)
+15 to Attack Rating
+1 to Dexterity
+1 to Energy
+1 to Life
+1 to Mana
+1 to Mana after each Kill

Storm Loop
Ring
Required Level: 4
Fingerprint: 0x1d640ef2
Item Level: 1
Version: Legacy (pre 1.08)
+1 to Maximum Damage
+20 to Attack Rating
+1 to Dexterity
+3 to Mana
+2 to Light Radius

Raven Hold
Ring
Required Level: 4
Fingerprint: 0x7170025c
Item Level: 1
Version: Legacy (pre 1.08)
+1 to Maximum Damage
+11 to Attack Rating
+1 to Dexterity
+2 to Life
+8 Maximum Stamina
Fire Resist +5%

As you can tell it confirms that ilvl does in fact matter.

What I find weird however is the number of impossible mods that spawned, or rather didn't spawn. It is indeed quite rare, as there are only few evidences of any merged affixes in these items. Other than gold find being picked by both affix pools, I honestly don't see anything else. I would expect at least one or two +2 str/dex/energy rings, 10% single resistance or something..

Anyway, as GalaxyHaxz mentioned, items seem to have two kinds of fingerprints in pre-lod. One can manipulate the items by changing any of them. I guess he is right in saying that each fingerprint will have different result and it might not be any more consistency in that.

The fingerprint seems to be consistently transferred (DWA, or DWORD A I assume?), but by changing it the stats does not change. However, DWB is what tells what affixes and exact stats the item is going to have. So I can create identical items with same stats, affixes and fingerprints and identical items with same stats and affixes but different fingerprints.

See this pictures to understand what I am talking about.
View attachment 5830

And the result?

Bone Torc
Amulet
Required Level: 67
Fingerprint: 0x6e17066e
Item Level: 99
Version: Legacy (pre 1.08)
+2 to Necromancer Skill Levels
+16 to Dexterity
+39 to Life
Fire Resist +6%
Poison Resist +25%
Damage Reduced by 1

Bone Torc
Amulet
Required Level: 67
Fingerprint: 0x6e17066e
Item Level: 99
Version: Legacy (pre 1.08)
+2 to Necromancer Skill Levels
+16 to Dexterity
+39 to Life
Fire Resist +6%
Poison Resist +25%
Damage Reduced by 1

Bone Torc
Amulet
Required Level: 67
Fingerprint: 0x2a3e7d91
Item Level: 99
Version: Legacy (pre 1.08)
+2 to Necromancer Skill Levels
+16 to Dexterity
+39 to Life
Fire Resist +6%
Poison Resist +25%
Damage Reduced by 1

As you can see for yourself, the fingerprint does not seem to have any part of it at all, and it looks in fact to be affixes and/or exact stats, at least by these observations.

These amulets all had DWB 0x17254094, but DWA 0x6E17066E on the first two and DWA 0x2A3E7D91 on the last one, which was modified in 1.00 before being transferred.

The amulet in question had these stats which corresponds with DWB 0x17254094 affix/stats fingerprint.

Code:
Bitter Heart
Amulet
Required Level: 33
10 Damage taken Goes to Mana
+1 to Barbarian Skill Levels
Lightning Resist 28%
+7 to Mana
Replenish Life +5
+8 Poison Damage Min
+24 Poison Damage Max
Poison Length 75 seconds
So I guess both of these fingerprints are used in 1.00, but that in 1.10+ it is not this way at all and the stats and affixes are generated someway else which confuses the game when brought forward.

If you look at the above picture of the ring with DWA 0x44b25853 you can see that once transferred the fingerprint remains, although the DWB is gone.

Code:
Skull Gyre
Ring
Required Level: 3
Fingerprint: 0x44b25853
Item Level: 1
Version: Legacy (pre 1.08)
+1 to Maximum Damage
+16 to Attack Rating
+1 to Dexterity
+1 to Mana
29% Extra Gold from Monsters
Just for kicks, I generated 40 ilvl 5 rings too which is the affix level for FCR to spawn on rings in pre-lod and lod.

Here's the result.

Havoc Grasp
Ring
Required Level: 15
Fingerprint: 0x44b25853
Item Level: 5
Version: Legacy (pre 1.08)
5% Mana stolen per hit
+2 to Strength
Cold Resist +9%
Fire Resist +9%

Death Turn
Ring
Required Level: 12
Fingerprint: 0x109a3e2e
Item Level: 5
Version: Legacy (pre 1.08)
+1 to Dexterity
Cold Resist +9%
Lightning Resist +8%
57% Extra Gold from Monsters
12% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items

Death Coil
Ring
Required Level: 15
Fingerprint: 0x361567e0
Item Level: 5
Version: Legacy (pre 1.08)
4% Life stolen per hit
+1 to Dexterity
+1 to Mana
Fire Resist +8%

Ghoul Circle
Ring
Required Level: 7
Fingerprint: 0x513711f6
Item Level: 5
Version: Legacy (pre 1.08)
+2 to Strength
+3 to Mana
+9 Maximum Stamina

Viper Coil
Ring
Required Level: 10
Fingerprint: 0x16a43a8b
Item Level: 5
Version: Legacy (pre 1.08)
+1 to Dexterity
+16 to Mana
26% Extra Gold from Monsters

Skull Gyre
Ring
Required Level: 10
Fingerprint: 0x1c725eba
Item Level: 5
Version: Legacy (pre 1.08)
+10% Faster Cast Rate
+1 to Strength
+5 to Mana
Magic Damage Reduced by 1

Wraith Finger
Ring
Required Level: 15
Fingerprint: 0x51b70f14
Item Level: 5
Version: Legacy (pre 1.08)
+18 to Attack Rating
5% Life stolen per hit
+1 to Dexterity
Cold Resist +5%

Raven Loop
Ring
Required Level: 13
Fingerprint: 0x332809cc
Item Level: 5
Version: Legacy (pre 1.08)
+15 to Attack Rating
+1 to Dexterity
+1 to Mana
Poison Resist +5%
Damage Reduced by 1
Magic Damage Reduced by 1

Shadow Coil
Ring
Required Level: 12
Fingerprint: 0x19ee44d6
Item Level: 5
Version: Legacy (pre 1.08)
+10% Faster Cast Rate
+1 to Maximum Damage
+22 to Attack Rating
+1 to Energy
+5 to Mana
Cold Resist +6%

Rune Grip
Ring
Required Level: 13
Fingerprint: 0x71d7f74
Item Level: 5
Version: Legacy (pre 1.08)
+1 to Maximum Damage
Fire Resist +7%
Damage Reduced by 1
+1 to Mana after each Kill
+1 to Light Radius

Grim Coil
Ring
Required Level: 15
Fingerprint: 0x1d3f1090
Item Level: 5
Version: Legacy (pre 1.08)
4% Life stolen per hit
+9 to Mana
Damage Reduced by 1
28% Extra Gold from Monsters
+4 to Light Radius

Bone Grip
Ring
Required Level: 10
Fingerprint: 0x49cd1387
Item Level: 5
Version: Legacy (pre 1.08)
+10% Faster Cast Rate
+1 to Maximum Damage
+33 to Attack Rating
+7 to Mana
Poison Resist +5%

Chaos Touch
Ring
Required Level: 15
Fingerprint: 0x4c0e0c3a
Item Level: 5
Version: Legacy (pre 1.08)
+21 to Attack Rating
5% Life stolen per hit
+2 to Dexterity
+1 to Mana after each Kill
59% Extra Gold from Monsters

Death Turn
Ring
Required Level: 9
Fingerprint: 0x2407b95
Item Level: 5
Version: Legacy (pre 1.08)
+1 to Maximum Damage
+3 to Life
Cold Resist +14%
Magic Damage Reduced by 1
13% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items

Order Hold
Ring
Required Level: 15
Fingerprint: 0x3f2a532c
Item Level: 5
Version: Legacy (pre 1.08)
+1 to Maximum Damage
+27 to Attack Rating
5% Life stolen per hit
Magic Damage Reduced by 1

Plague Loop
Ring
Required Level: 15
Fingerprint: 0x1b221d18
Item Level: 5
Version: Legacy (pre 1.08)
+32 to Attack Rating
6% Life stolen per hit
+4 to Mana
Magic Damage Reduced by 1
Poison Length Reduced by 25%
+1 to Light Radius

Skull Band
Ring
Required Level: 13
Fingerprint: 0x73ad7859
Item Level: 5
Version: Legacy (pre 1.08)
+30 to Attack Rating
Lightning Resist +6%
Poison Resist +5%
Damage Reduced by 1
+1 to Light Radius

Order Eye
Ring
Required Level: 9
Fingerprint: 0x4c741905
Item Level: 5
Version: Legacy (pre 1.08)
+25 to Attack Rating
+1 to Energy
Poison Resist +6%
+2 to Light Radius

Viper Grip
Ring
Required Level: 10
Fingerprint: 0x21044a6d
Item Level: 5
Version: Legacy (pre 1.08)
+28 to Attack Rating
+6 to Life
+4 to Mana
+5 Maximum Stamina
+3 to Light Radius

Havoc Touch
Ring
Required Level: 9
Fingerprint: 0x308e2fa4
Item Level: 5
Version: Legacy (pre 1.08)
+1 to Energy
+6 Maximum Stamina
Fire Resist +6%
+2 to Light Radius

Havoc Grip
Ring
Required Level: 9
Fingerprint: 0x2cb41a16
Item Level: 5
Version: Legacy (pre 1.08)
+10% Faster Cast Rate
+1 to Maximum Damage
Cold Resist +5%
Magic Damage Reduced by 1
11% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items
+1 to Light Radius

Order Band
Ring
Required Level: 12
Fingerprint: 0x4a491aae
Item Level: 5
Version: Legacy (pre 1.08)
+10% Faster Cast Rate
+10 to Attack Rating
+2 to Dexterity
+1 to Mana after each Kill
+1 to Light Radius

Raven Finger
Ring
Required Level: 6
Fingerprint: 0x9720bd
Item Level: 5
Version: Legacy (pre 1.08)
+10% Faster Cast Rate
+1 to Maximum Damage
+25 to Attack Rating
Poison Resist +5%
33% Extra Gold from Monsters

Dread Turn
Ring
Required Level: 15
Fingerprint: 0x528920f2
Item Level: 5
Version: Legacy (pre 1.08)
+10 to Attack Rating
5% Mana stolen per hit
Lightning Resist +5%
Poison Resist +5%
Magic Damage Reduced by 1
+2 to Light Radius

Beast Band
Ring
Required Level: 7
Fingerprint: 0x1b9f4a77
Item Level: 5
Version: Legacy (pre 1.08)
+15 to Attack Rating
+1 to Strength
+2 to Dexterity
Cold Resist +6%
+1 to Mana after each Kill

Storm Master
Ring
Required Level: 13
Fingerprint: 0x5d863e14
Item Level: 5
Version: Legacy (pre 1.08)
Cold Resist +8%
Poison Resist +5%
Damage Reduced by 1
Magic Damage Reduced by 1
+2 to Light Radius

Rune Gyre
Ring
Required Level: 12
Fingerprint: 0x6a6613f7
Item Level: 5
Version: Legacy (pre 1.08)
+10% Faster Cast Rate
+1 to Dexterity
Fire Resist +8%
Poison Length Reduced by 25%
+1 to Mana after each Kill
+1 to Light Radius

Entropy Grasp
Ring
Required Level: 13
Fingerprint: 0x5c7d1224
Item Level: 5
Version: Legacy (pre 1.08)
+15 to Attack Rating
+5 to Life
Fire Resist +5%
Damage Reduced by 1
+3 to Light Radius

Grim Touch
Ring
Required Level: 11
Fingerprint: 0x1c1275cb
Item Level: 5
Version: Legacy (pre 1.08)
+19 to Attack Rating
+1 to Strength
Fire Resist +6%
+1 to Light Radius

Corruption Turn
Ring
Required Level: 10
Fingerprint: 0x3eb33823
Item Level: 5
Version: Legacy (pre 1.08)
+39 to Attack Rating
+9 to Life
Cold Resist +5%
Magic Damage Reduced by 1
+1 to Mana after each Kill

Beast Spiral
Ring
Required Level: 10
Fingerprint: 0x115a0828
Item Level: 5
Version: Legacy (pre 1.08)
+27 to Attack Rating
+1 to Dexterity
+1 to Energy
+9 to Life
+1 to Mana after each Kill

Blood Coil
Ring
Required Level: 15
Fingerprint: 0xcf06fa8
Item Level: 5
Version: Legacy (pre 1.08)
6% Life stolen per hit
+1 to Strength
+3 to Mana
Poison Resist +6%

Storm Knot
Ring
Required Level: 9
Fingerprint: 0x7eab370d
Item Level: 5
Version: Legacy (pre 1.08)
+15 to Attack Rating
+1 to Strength
+1 to Dexterity
Cold Resist +6%
Lightning Resist +5%
+1 to Light Radius

Doom Grip
Ring
Required Level: 13
Fingerprint: 0x5cdb0548
Item Level: 5
Version: Legacy (pre 1.08)
+1 to Strength
+2 to Mana
Cold Resist +5%
Damage Reduced by 1

Blood Touch
Ring
Required Level: 11
Fingerprint: 0x37bc1492
Item Level: 5
Version: Legacy (pre 1.08)
+1 to Maximum Damage
Fire Resist +5%
+3 to Light Radius

Storm Hold
Ring
Required Level: 10
Fingerprint: 0x75e1666f
Item Level: 5
Version: Legacy (pre 1.08)
+2 to Dexterity
+1 to Energy
+8 to Mana
Lightning Resist +5%
28% Extra Gold from Monsters

Plague Touch
Ring
Required Level: 5
Fingerprint: 0x2a182789
Item Level: 5
Version: Legacy (pre 1.08)
+10 to Attack Rating
+1 to Dexterity
Fire Resist +5%
Damage Reduced by 1
+1 to Mana after each Kill
+2 to Light Radius

Stone Knot
Ring
Required Level: 9
Fingerprint: 0x78b20c4
Item Level: 5
Version: Legacy (pre 1.08)
+1 to Dexterity
+1 to Energy
Lightning Resist +8%
Fire Resist +5%
Poison Resist +5%
Magic Damage Reduced by 1

Storm Loop
Ring
Required Level: 13
Fingerprint: 0x1d640ef2
Item Level: 5
Version: Legacy (pre 1.08)
+10% Faster Cast Rate
+38 to Attack Rating
+4 to Mana
Fire Resist +5%
Damage Reduced by 1
Magic Damage Reduced by 1

Raven Hold
Ring
Required Level: 10
Fingerprint: 0x7170025c
Item Level: 5
Version: Legacy (pre 1.08)
+1 to Maximum Damage
+32 to Attack Rating
+1 to Strength
+1 to Dexterity
+15 to Mana

Not even one single 20%FCR ring from a sample of 40 rings, even with the optimal ilvl. Damn, well I never said it would be easy...

I will try to do some more research tomorrow on ilvl 99 amulets. If I don't find any evidence after a few hundred amulets I will provoke some answers by disabling certain affixes to spawn from both tables from the game so I can artificially increase the chance for an impossible affix to spawn. This way it will still be legitimate and follow the games rules and not some kind of emulation.
Guys, I think we broke the game. :D

View attachment 5837


After 160 ilvl 99 amulets without any modifications to the affix tables.

Honestly, I found many +3 skills just the first 80 amulets. And tons of +2/+2 amulets. No 20 FCR amulets at all, but such a huge affix pool at ilvl 99. The chances for the amulet to get +4 is 2/10 * 1/9 (3,33%?) if I am not mistaken when the amulet has actually decided to roll with two +2 skill suffixes. It actually doesn't seem too rare as I saw many +2/+2 amulets and honestly should be of no problem if one use the gold find barb at a high level to gamble amulets with 10% chance of rare per amulet gambled. Getting +4 skill / 20% FCR however will take some time. :p

1.11b item

Code:
Doom Noose
Amulet
Required Level: 67
Fingerprint: 0x759c246b
Item Level: 99
Version: Legacy (pre 1.08)
+4 to Barbarian Skill Levels
Damage Reduced by 4
Magic Damage Reduced by 2
8% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items
+2 to Light Radius
1.00 item
Code:
Doom Beads
Amulet
Required Level: 22
Fingerprint (DWA): 0x759C246B
Fingerprint (DWB): 0x0BBC5B24
Item Level: 99
+50 to Life
+19 to Attack Rating
+48 to Mana
+2 to Strength
Damage Reduced by 1
Poison Resist 15%
Congratulations to all 1.00 players, hopefully you have something new to strive for. I could finally have some real use for my level 96 barb in 1.00 to gamble high ilvl amulets. :rolleyes:

I think I also know why I have found items with the same stats but on different items in 1.00, say a rare flail and rare naga. They probably have had different fingerprints (DWA), but the same affix/stats fingerprint (DWB) applied to the item. This is something someone can maybe confirm too who actively play 1.00 and have duplicate items lying around.

I must confess I am proud to say that I think my theory was correct all along and it's nice to finally kind of see it through after so many years. Although there are probably more research to be done and more discoveries lying ahead in this always surprising, endless and epic game.

Quick side note, something I just thought of is that it won't be possible to get amulets with Druid or Assassin skills. :(

Now I have to go to bed, it's 01:22 AM and I have to wake up early for work. ^_^
Oh... another thought occurred. What happens if you have a duplicate item, and reroll one of them w/ pgems before forwarding?
Yeah I think that pretty much rivals the 1.07 h4x items. It's only a matter of time till someone finds a +4 sorc amulet. If the potential to roll two of any affix is indeed what is happening, I could imagine getting +40 all res or +60 ias. And Sockets! Lets not forget you get potentially get 2/2=4 sockets on a rare!
No, sockets aren't part of the original affix pool, so you wouldn't be able to get more than 2. It has to be one from the original pool and one from the new for this to happen. You'll probably never see 48% FHR but you'd se 44% or 37%
Derp. Totally forgot about that. But yeah that would be cool to roll 30 fhr on boots!
Could you get prismatic prismatic meteoric ring of leech leech leech for like 14% life 7% mana stolen 150AR [email protected]?
Wow, this has some crazy potential! Very cool that you decided to publish your earlier findings, @imakeigloospat And to have your theory about it verified now.

I could see why many people wouldn't like to see people using these on their regular characters IF they take part of the MF tournaments here etc, let alone trading. Even though this is happening without any actual "haxz" :p However, I find this something really interesting and something that will be funny to explore. With enough patience one could build some quite neat Classic chars around these items, for example.

Hey btw, now that you're here imakeigloospat, is that lvl 96 Barb of yours leveled from Diablo kills or?! I've read that the exp penalty gets really steep later, though admittedly I have no idea how long the levels start taking from Urdar packs or so later (my Barb is only 84 now).

Did you use Sorc(s) a lot in 1.00 btw? I'm just building mine and wouldn't mind hearing what was your take on it if you happened to play some. Feel free to share any other builds you ended up playing longer or liked in general.
I've been thinking about this, and even if we use 2 beta BKWB and classic +4 skill amulet with 20FCR, this STILL doesn't break the game as much as torch and anni does....

....which kinda makes it fair!

Think about it. How big a quest isn't it obtaining these items? Far more tedious than the torch, and the way the anni spawns is just dumb luck for the typical player.
I am fairly certain that the original DWA fingerprint will remain and the affix/stat fingerprint DWB will change. In other words, the re-rolled one will indeed have different stats even though the DWA fingerprint (the fingerprint used in 1.10+) is identical.

I guess I could confirm this for you quick though when I have time.



As Helvete said, the original affix pool don't have sockets in the affix table, but you could always get two at least! ;)

I honestly don't think I would need much time on my barb to gamble enough rare high ilvl amulets and bring forward to at least get one +4 amulet. +3 would be very quick by my research.

There are a lot of potential here, one just have to use the imagination. You could for instance have 30% IAS on gloves, 70% MF boots and amulets and 44% FHR belts, all with additional stats!

..or you know a +4 Necro / 40% FCR wand for your Necromancer. :)



Yes, you could. 2 fused prefixes + 1 normal prefix and 2 fused suffixes and one normal suffix. 100% possible. It would be [email protected] though with dual pris, as in pre-lod it goes up to 25 and lod it goes up to 20.

Good luck generating it! :D



Thanks!

I've always found these kind of quirks very interesting myself, and I used to (many years ago) be a system administrator with a strong passion for programming so I always found myself trying to understand what's going on in the technical aspects.

The way I played the barb was mostly killing champion and minion packs in RoF and CotD. I actually found that to be a lot of fun. I would usually do CS runs with my Sorc in TCP/IP games so my Barb could kill Diablo by himself in 8-player games, so I guess I got some good experience from that as well. Even with the occasional EXP shrine that my Sorc found in CP or SF!

But mostly just champions and minions. There were many runs...

As for other characters, I did indeed have a Sorc which I used. Since spells don't have a timer, the spells are nerfed in that sense because they cost so much mana and you can't just spam 20 frozen orbs or spawn 10 hydras to quickly kill a pack of monsters.

Charged bolt, nova, lightning, chain lightning and thunder storm are all terrible spells. Can't even clear kill creeps in one player games in Hell Act 4, they are all utter trash.
Why? Because lightning mastery only reduce the mana cost of the lightning spells. Well played Blizzard....

Ice bolt, ice blast, frost nova, blizzard and frozen orb are not good spells either. I mean, frozen orb does a ton of damage (and has that quirky behavior as in 1.07 that you need to aim on the side of monsters) but cost more
than 75 mana at a decent level. Glacial spike is actually pretty decent though with good FCR in one player games.

Fire bolt, fire ball, inferno, blaze, fire wall and hydra is bad as well. Fire wall is probably the best spell the sorceress has in terms of damage, but too bad that it costs 75+ mana at a decent level making it useless.

So what am I trying to say? Well unfortunately for sorceress' there really is only one build that is optimal in 1.00, and that is static field + a spell to finish creeps of. Meteor has a lot of damage like fire wall and costs half
of what frozen orb, hydra and fire wall does and has a nice AoE. So you put 1 in lightning mastery, enough in teleport for it to be very low mana cost with your +skill on gear, max static field, warmth, meteor and fire mastery. You want good damage on your
meteor against monsters with high lightning resistance.

This is by far the best 1.00 character in terms of kill speed if you want to get a high level character, as you simply teleport to the seals, drop one or two meteor and cast static field untill monsters are dead. Rinse and repeat on all seal minions and kill Diablo.
With the 12,5% chance to get a rare item from minions you can find some very good items this way as well, although I preferred to run gold find runs with my barb and level him instead. If I remember correctly my sorc was at least level 92, so not too shabby.
Just make sure you have a good shield, lots of resistance and lots of life so you can tank the creeps while they burn up from meteor and static field. 63%+ FCR, 30% faster block rate on shield and 48%+ FHR is required as well, mine had 86%+ FHR I beleive. Alternatively you could use Wall of the Eyeless with low block to free up 20% FCR and just tank the damage instead. Also has the nice MPK mod.

Then you have the Cheese'o'mancer. Honestly, it's pretty good but nothing like the Sorc or the Barb. Thing is that it rocks in player one games, but with more players it takes too much time to get the first corpse. Poison Nova sucks, so you have to use bone spirit or bone spear and even with Lower Resistance that takes a while.
If you enjoy clearing CS in player one games then the Necro works wonders with CE obviously, and you can farm items with bone wall.

Never really enjoyed the Paladin in 1.00, but you can run a Hammerdin with concentration. It was a bug back then, and it does a ton of damage. Works very well, especially in one player games. Then you the thorns paladin which is super broken as well in player one games.
More monsters only increase health in 1.00, so the thorns effect is not as strong then.

Amazons sucks. Bows damage doesn't work and the spells are alright I guess, but cost a lot of mana and is kind of awkward with pierce. And since Javelins can only be as good as superior you cannot have attack speed on them. Doesn't matter though because the javelin skills sucks as well. :p
Amazons however is probably my favorite one player CS clearer in 1.04 with multi arrow and a good bow. It is super fast and super fun to play! Probably the fastest full clear one player CS runner in pre-lod, but only 1.04 though because of the "nice bugs". :)

I have always been kind of an optimalist when playing Diablo 2, so I only really cared about the barb, sorc and 1.04 bowazon. I am sure you can find viable builds in one player games, but that is not my cup of tea.

However, the one build I found fun to play which was not optimal by any sense of the word was my Singer barb. I made Freddie in 2009 (https://www.diabloii.net/forums/threads/freddie-the-in-progress-hc-untwinked-1-06-singer.746534/) and actually proved to be a useful character in player one games. So I made one in 1.00 too with my uber gear, and he is a beast. :d There's this technique you can have where your war cry hits a monster twice, effecitvely doubling your damage which makes the build pretty good in terms of kill speed, you just have to pick up all mana potions and rejuvination potions and spend time using 'Find Potion' if it doesn'



Haha, I guess that's true.
@imakeigloospat could you do something for me? Generate a bunch of ilvl 89 amulets (just short of +2 skills in LoD) and forward them? If you don't get a single +3 amulet from whatever you previously got several from, then we'll know that the magic_level of 2 disappears upon forwarding. IF you were to get a +3, then it does NOT disappear, which will make it less attractive to get to lvl 95 in 1.00.... Furthermore, IF you encounter a single +4 amulet, then we'll know that the magic_lvl is retained, and there will be absolutely no need to level past 93.
So, I messed about running cow king in 1.00 (nm) for a bit today. Getting a few rares, converting them, seeing what they look like in 1.13; repeat. Just due to boredom.

After an hour and a half or so, the only item i got which was a double was this axe. Sadly, two-handed. Hopefully I'll find a one-handed +4 barb weapon soon. Or even two of them! I think that'll make a good battle-orders weapon in classic /or/ LOD!

e/ Also, I just want to express my amazement at the work that's been done in this thread over the past day or two. Really awesome stuff!
Hm. So I guess a 1H weapon with +4 and beta CtA ([email protected] + 3 BO) would give +9 to BO for a barb? That's kinda neat.
(and yes torch + anni is still more broken than all of this lol)
I have beaten normal with my barb and have been farming cow king. I found the unique pike fairly quickly and have even found an ok 130 damage 125 dura pike. The map I have seems decent so i may hold out for one with good secondary mods and a little more damage.

I did also find a rare plated belt with res, 100+ gf, and over 50 life which is pretty swanky.

I gambled greyform and I guess I forgot since it is so rare in lod but it is actually really nice armor. All the mods are really helpful for 1.00 and since defense is kind of moot there are few drawbacks to it except no life or fhr.

Is this the only patch where ww hits every frame? I am really enjoying playing a patch where physical fighters don't feel so useless next to spell casters but being so limited on weapon choices for a barb and amazons having their main weapon busted is no fun. I also like that farming is a lot less tedious than later patches. The cow king actually feels rewarding to do. When do they fix the weapons and when do they adjust ww down?
Decided to finish Hell, at lvl 82.

King Grapes!

The mule I had in CS with me (in hindsight I guess it shouldn't be necessary since I was getting the quest for the 1st time anyway) had a low level concentration aura, which helped with dps a bit!
Diablo's health bar was messed up as well. He basically "almost died" twice before the real deal ;) I think killing him was even faster than in NM, despite no weapon change... I guess all those points in WW add up.

edit: even with 2700 life Cow King is scary in hell... but he drops so many rares? I'll wait on the diagnosis for if ilvl matters to decide what to do next (lvl more/collect gold, cow king...)
 

Albatross

Active member
Mar 17, 2020
467
78
28
Congrats on the King! Yes, hell CK drops a lot of rares. Mostly due to his high chance of exceptional items, and none of these can be unique.


I think 1.04 was the OP bowazon patch, mentioned somewhere above here, and I think WW got nerfed with 1.04 as well. Maybe a slight nerf in 1.01 or 1.02 halving the damage bonus, but also the mana cost.

Lances drop from 1.04 and on, but they nerfed the Cow King (only one kill) with patch 1.02
@pharphis gongrats for King Grapes :D Nice achievement! Haven't made mine a Baron yet, lol.



Thanks a lot for a thorough answer, really helpful! :)

Do you remember your life/mana ratio you ended up with your Sorc? And did you use ES?

Could be really fun to see a pre-lod bowazon at its best. What were the main reasons for 1.04 besides that bow damage works unlike in 1.00? Do you need high life to survive or can you go with a lot of dex?

I think I'd really like to explore more of some classic builds once I've less things to do in 1.13 LoD :p
+3 is possible, just got one from an ilvl 89 amulet. Got two from 160 amulets. I am not sure how the +3 makes a difference though? Wouldn't that just be +2 pre-lod affix fused with +1 lod affix? I guess there is something I am missing.

+4 doesn't seem possible. I get a lot of +2/+2, but those are both prefixes from pre-lod affix pool I guess. I could be wrong though, and that I am just unlucky but I don't have patience to try 1000+ amulets. I wish I did though..



Glad I can help!

I didn't use ES, but that could be interesting I guess. Although I never had issues dying, which I guess come from the fact that player 8 monsters have the same damage as player 1 monsters. They die as fast in player 8 anyway due to static field. -_-

Bow damage works, but if you read the patch notes in 1.05 you can see

Code:
[LIST]
[*]The Amazon's Strafe skill now correctly enhances base bow damage rather than total bow damage.
[*]The Amazon's Guided Arrow skill now enhances base bow damage rather than total bow damage
[/LIST]
So basically, Guided Arrow and Strafe is A LOT stronger. Although I mostly used Multi Arrow for killing all creeps off screen. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

And there is only one way to play the Bowazon... all dexterity baby!


Back to these items. I think for LOD the real use is not limited per say, but mostly to rings, amulets, gloves and boots which brings something unique, new and beyond what is possible in LOD to the table.

For classic 1.10+ however, I think these items completely and utterly destroys the whole game.
Weapons can now obtain 300% ED (in classic, the max is 200% and is built from two prefixes that ranges from 1-100% ed), 80% IAS (40% for bow), -60% req, +4 skills, 40% FCR (note that scepters can't have +4 paladin skill because the +2 from pre-lod would convert to sorc, so it would be +2/+2. Still, +2 sorc / 40% FCR scepter in classic is broken as hell or a +4 necro / 40% FCR wand. Same goes daggers, which would be +2 barb / +2 necro).

Helms can have 120 life or 44% FHR or 400% ED or +30 dexterity.. Body armors as well, where 60% -req would be useful too, or 100% poison length reduction. Or you know, belts with +40 strength. o_O

Gloves with tons of stats, 30% IAS, 70% MF or 200% GF. Same goes with boots, just replacing IAS with 70% FRW.

Imagine shields in 1.10+ classic with 40% increase blocking and tons of other stats... Shields with +2 sorc skills and a ton of resistance.

But most importantly is the 20% FCR amulets and rings. This is an enormous game changer in classic, making it possible to hit break points one has never been able to hit before, making characters that much stronger.

I won't do any more research on this subject because I don't really have time, and there's a good reason I quit Diablo 2 some years ago. It just draws me back, and I can't spend time on it so I will just have to uninstall it again. I have another side project in Diablo 2 already which is more than enough.

Anyways, good luck further and hopefully you find some real use for this. I'll hang around so let me know if I can help with anything. And I am waiting to try out the Diablo 2 classic and LOD beta GalaxyHaxz is cracking. :)
Has anyone else noticed that sometimes the maggot bosspacks in RoF change ALL of the minions and maggot young to an orange colour? Very weird.

Also, You can get maggot bosspacks when maggots don't roll as a monster in the RoF (I'm not sure if this happens with other monster types but I noticed it with maggots back in normal or nm or something

I'm struggling to get a map with urdar bosses near the WP. When I do get them, do I want unique Urdars for better exp and champions for better gold? Or do champions have the same +mlvl bonus?

edit: can someone also remind me on ideal gear breakdown for GF? I'm built for using a pike but if it's worthwhile I might run champions with my lvl 47 barb until he reaches high 80s using 2x patriarchs (my understanding is I probably want rattlecage for that, though)
Bosspacks aren't tied to be the same monster type as the rest of the spawn anywhere, I think, because that happens a lot.

The color thing also happens to urdars, and probably many other monsters.

You'll want a map with four champions. At your level, they don't HAVE to be urdars, but it is a plus. Those corpse spitter things are only two levels behind. I think the level bonus +3 for bosses, but I'm unsure about their minions. Champions get +2, and will give more drops.
Actually, I think the minion colour change for maggots (and maybe other monsters as well) occurs WHEN they aren't one of the monster spawns in the area.

My guess as to why this might be is that the colour isn't selected in some way because the monster isn't selected for the area, which leads to all the minions being the same colour. (I don't know the order of generation or anything so purely a guess... @GalaXyHaXz probably can figure it out)

Then again, I don't think they are always all the same colour.. I'll run my map a few more times to check
edit: on this map I think they are always the same colour.
edit 2: nope! not always all the same colour
The forward rares thingy seems to not allow LoD-only affixes, like +skilltab or CtC/charges type of stuff. Judging from a very small sample, but I got identical results when forwarding to classic and to LoD.
Well that's probably because the item's version still dictates what to allow. But the old "legacy" support also allows the prelod pool.

Amazon's suck in 1.00 because pierce is capped at 50%. They fixed that in 1.01 and the bow damage in 1.04. They then gave a small Nerf in 1.05.

WW got a small Nerf in 1.01. The big Nerf came when 1.03 got rid of it attacking twice. Then 1.04 fixed lances, so it sort of made up.
What an interesting last 3 pages... might have to put 1.14 down and bring a few batches of rares forward. Keep posting the photos of the crazy rares!
Ditto. I don't know yet what to make of these insane items, but it sure is fascinating to see new things discovered about this 17 year old game.

My 1.00 characters are currently at lvl 13, and leveling them is not on my priorities right now, so it will take a while until I can even dream about this stuff :) But I'm nonetheless very interested about this turn of events. It's always exiting to see new discoveries.

Although, it might be best to survey a bit what the forum wide consensus about these items is, before using them. I know a lot of people are on the fence about time travel stuff to begin with, so I can understand how some might think this is too much.
To the HC players: 1 pt in shout is helpful especially for hell cow king. 110% (because of battle command) makes quite the difference for my chance to be hit by monsters at my lvl (83) going from 31% to 24% (Iron skin is lvl 15 or 16 atm) and it makes a noticeable difference vs king since the difference is probably even bigger...

What lvl is cow king, btw? I've already had several close calls while whirling through cow mobs, though shout helps a lot. Of course, if you can manage it you'll want a map with minimal crowds in the way but I don't have that luxury atm.
This would make it a LOT more fun to use this set for twinking:
View attachment 5874

EDIT: Okay, now this is weeeeird....

I always kill the Cow King after I finish a gamble session. In this particular session, I had gambled Cleglaw's Claw, the set Small Shield. When I killed the CK, he dropped Tancred's Skull, which I just picked up, and didn't ID at the time. So far, so good.

But then I copied the entire character, and opened him in 1.10a

Now, the Small Shield was "Civerb's Cudgel", and it claimed I also had "Civerb's Ward", as that text was green instead of red. Believing I would ID the set Bone Helm to be Civerb's Ward, I did. However, it turned out to be "Cleglaw's Pincers"! And all of a sudden, the Civerb's Cudgel Small Shield forgot all about me having another piece of the set....
Is multiple shot viable then for CS? @imakeigloospat, I think you mentioned you tried this a little bit. If I were to try to ever reach lvl 99 I guess it would have to be a CS runner... and in HC the only viable sounding thing that would be not incredibly slow would be sorc or zon, I would think?

Anyway, if MS is viable, what kind of bow is best and what stats are ideal in terms of max dmg range, ias, etc.
Cow King keeps giving me bows so I figure I should pay closer attention.
I haven't tried MS but know that it only does 3/4 weapon damage. Few know this, but it was always this way until 1.10 displayed that it did.

Couple that with the bow dmg bug and ohh.... I would go immolation/strafe. If you stick with 1.00, freezing arrow will help. Get a gothic bow with as much leech and ar possible. Iceblink doesn't seem to work with ranged weapons. Boo.
I see in treeharl's guide that pike is best found from cow king in NM. I'm guessing this is based on the affixes in the table since there are no ED affixes in the table for hell and a couple of useless ones in the hell table...

Well, I'm getting sick of hell cow king being scary. I've had many NDEs already (w/ 2700 life). I think I'll give NM a try until I get a really good pike and then revisit cow king in hell or finally hunt down a pack of urdar champions.
NM runs are also a lot faster. Apart from [email protected] on rings, I don't think hell has any desirable affixes compared to NM.

I'm still getting decent exp from Maw Fiend champions at lvl 90. Very noticeable since the runs are so quick.

Also, I found out that different set items can become the same set item when forwarded. Both Cathan's Seal, Tancred's Skull and Tancred Amulet became Cleglaw's Pincers. A shame, really, since those gloves actually make sense to use for some characters.

The Isenhart's Lightbrand ring, however, replaces a weapon, and weapons have always been the weak spot in sets.
I don't remember reading this though it was probably mentioned.. but blues also reroll upon forwarding. I guess it's nowhere near as powerful as the mixed affix rares, though.
Cow king in hell is mlvl 81.

Also in personal news, I finally beat Diablo in hell... Kind of a pain with only iron maiden and blood golem but still possible. I regret putting points in revive because I never use them. Anyway, I've been grinding cow king in every difficulty for a week or so, looking for good maps and such.

Edit: does anyone have any idea why they designed Diablo II so that you couldn't buy mana potions at all? Would have saved me many points in energy. Not that I need the points for vitality, really... The blood golem/iron maiden makes me pretty unbeatable in most situations but...
A question: do Blessed Aim give the Paladin a hidden 5% AR bonus per point spent in 1.00?
Ok finally got a very safe hell cow map that is incredibly fast. I was just switching b/w nm and hell more until I got a close tristram portal, then I would try cow king, which is only a screenlength away and the only bad mod is aura enchanted... thankfully I kill him fast enough that even with might king is dead before there are crowds to worry about.

So far nothing good dropped but I have at least SEEN a pike, so that's a start.
If I want rattlecage, do I have to gamble it or hope for a random drop? I don't see that king can drop gothic plates.

edit: holy crap that map sucked and so does every map I find. I can't find pikes at all, and not even many rings.
 

Albatross

Active member
Mar 17, 2020
467
78
28
No gothic plates from king. However, that is the least significant armor piece.

Don't actively search for that one; just keep rerolling maps. You'll get there!!

Errrrr.... Better find a NM map. Try to remember that HC means you don't get to die moar than once....
Hmm, I'm about to reach lvl 84 and it only just occurred to me that perhaps find item is worth using against urdar champs? Does this work for gold drops, and is it consistent? I'd have to put a point into find potion first so at this point it is quite the investment...

Thoughts? I'm always willing to put more points in iron skin
Find item is hopeless. It always gives a plain white item, IIRC, and can't find gold. Not even magical items.

Find potion is a bit more useful, but not for this type of late game.

EDIT: Perhaps even Grim Ward, if trying to use Patriarchs and there are many useless mobs around the champs.
Alright sounds good. I won't bother with those skills, then, and pump iron skin just a pinch higher! It really does help vs cow king, after all.

So now that I'm lvl 84 I guess I'll start gambling amulets and mule them all off onto another char for lvl84+ ammies. If I get ANY with +2, I guess that would be primarily reroll fodder.
If I'm desperate for more, will the ilvl be conserved if I forward them to some expansion version to check in ATMA or gomule? Also, should I be rerolling in 1.00 or 1.06 or does it not matter?


edit: Also I think blood maggot young may be boosted in level by minions. Any evidence of this? It seemed like this give more exp but I'll try to find a pack to be sure. Right now maggots only give me 300 exp each (I think at lvl 83 they gave 1k) on /p1.
edit2: maggots spawning from the boss itself aren't boosted but I'll try to roll a map with the maggots all an orange colour instead to see if I can observe the same behavior. Maybe I wasn't looking carefully enough at the exp before.
edit3: ok maggots are useless now on /p1. Other monsters seem to give tens of thousands of exp, still. Once I get bored of this cow king map (very soon) I think I'll try some mp games where I just rush through and kill everything because I'd like to gain another level or 2 before I start gambling for tons of amulets. Still haven't gotten nice boots or belt from gambling or cow king, either, or a better pike... :/
Any rare amulet, at least from hell, should be forwarded. +2 skills 20 fcr with lvl 27 req could potentially be possible.
View attachment 5964
Now this I did not know was possible... Found a nightmare map where the portal spawns inside the Corral of Corruption. In fact, when I stepped through the portal he was nearly right on top of me! You can see the stamina potions he dropped are right at the red portal.

Now I just have to not click on another difficulty by mistake until I figure out what his drops are like in this map.
I had a map like that recently :)
King was just below your blood golem icon in the top left.
If you do this, do NOT exit that game in fury. Keep the game open, tab out, and browse to the save file. Go into its properties and choose "read only". Save that setting, then exit the game. Start a new game on correct difficulty, and you should have the same map. Then, remove write protection again from the file to keep playing.
You should also be able to end process in task manager
Some systems will attempt (and succeed) to save before killing the process, though.
Fair enough. I don't think I've had that problem
Well I decided to do a handful of RoF clears with mules and now my barb is lvl 86. I don't know if I can bring myself to bother with cow king anymore, despite NOT yet getting a new pike, or great boots/belt for %gold find. At least one of my mules is lvl 31, though, so I may gamble boots/belts with that char instead of just gambling amulets with my barb.
Gogo goldfinding!

I'm also still whirling with my original decent(ish) pike. Think I was 86 as well, it's been some weeks when I last played 1.00.

I won't bother with that too much, but I guess I'll try some Cow King runs with my Sorc sooner or later.
Pushing towards lvl 91 now, running some mlvl 82 champions.

The good rares seem to be few and far between, and the "hybrid rares" are mostly useless as well. But that's good, if it was too easy it would become boring pretty fast.
Nice going, helvete!

Yea, it seems quite clear after reaching 80+ that it will take some sweat to get them really good ones.
I think if I found a similar map to the one I have now, but with Urdar Champions instead, that I would be able to keep the same pace (around 3-4 M exp between each gamble session) towards lvl 93. 93 will be the final level for me, as I no longer have any use for stats/skills and there is nothing to be gained regarding gambling after that.

It would take a few weeks, though. At any rate, I'll keep the current map until 91.
Did some more MP RoF runs and reached 87! All future skill points will either go into nat res or increased run speed...
Out of curiosity (I'm REALLY not looking for another D2 challenge), do people play 1.00 from a version switcher or by replacing a patch text?
I use the version switcher from @fearedbliss personally. It's very convenient!
I've just noticed that 1.00 is one of the many versions of D2 that I have installed. Guess I'll take a quick look; no harm in that!
 

Albatross

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Mar 17, 2020
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I use separate installs. The version switcher gave me issues thanks to window's UAC, so I find it easiest to just maintain multiple folders and rename them as needed.

While looking for information of where to level up in prep for NM Diablo/CS and Hell in general, I came across some great information from Jarulf (of d1 guide fame), here's some of the snippets
Code:
        Level difference Experience given (%) *
mlvl - clvl | clvl < 25 | clvl 25 to 75 | clvl 76 to 80 | clvl 81 to 85 | clvl 86 to 90 | clvl > 90
    >10           5          clvl/mlvl     clvl/mlvl/2     clvl/mlvl/3     clvl/mlvl/4     clvl/mlvl/5
    10            5          clvl/mlvl     clvl/mlvl/2     clvl/mlvl/3     clvl/mlvl/4     clvl/mlvl/5
     9           15          clvl/mlvl     clvl/mlvl/2     clvl/mlvl/3     clvl/mlvl/4     clvl/mlvl/5
     8           36          clvl/mlvl     clvl/mlvl/2     clvl/mlvl/3     clvl/mlvl/4     clvl/mlvl/5
     7           68          clvl/mlvl     clvl/mlvl/2     clvl/mlvl/3     clvl/mlvl/4     clvl/mlvl/5
     6           **          clvl/mlvl     clvl/mlvl/2     clvl/mlvl/3     clvl/mlvl/4     clvl/mlvl/5
     1 to 5     100          clvl/mlvl     clvl/mlvl/2     clvl/mlvl/3     clvl/mlvl/4     clvl/mlvl/5
    -5 to 0     100            100              50.0            33.3            25.0            20.0
    -6           81             81              40.5            27.0            20.3            16.2
    -7           62             62              31.0            20.7            15.5            12.4
    -8           43             43              21.5            14.3            10.8            8.6
    -9           24             24              12.0            8.0             6.0             4.8
    -10           5             5               2.5             1.7             1.3             1
  < -10           5             5               2.5             1.7             1.3             1

* Prior to v1.03, any character with a clvl greater of 75, still recieved the same value as that of a character of clvl 25 to 7

Of particular note here, is how prior to patch 1.03, apparently the additional exp penalties applying to levels above 75 did not work correctly. E.g. a Lvl85 leveling off of Lvl 82's, is supposed to gain 33.3% exp, but will instead gain 100%. A Lv91 against the same monster is supposed to get 4.8% exp, but will instead gain 24% exp.

Code:
  EXP Samples
Name          NM          Hell    mLvl (nm/h)
Diablo     151,405      569,765    65 / 90
Izual      107,573      448,866    54 / 79
Mephisto    55,023      236,152    51 / 76
Duriel      34,446      153,495    47 / 72
Hephaesto    8,412       36,446    50 / 75

Grotesque    5,066       20,942    55 / 80
Urduar       4,661       18,908    57 / 82
Stygian Hag  4,136       17,583    52 / 77
Oblivion Kn. 3,959       16,365    55 / 80
Storm Caster 3,925       16,227    55 / 80
Venom Lord   3,858       15,949    55 / 80
Council Mem. 3,676       15,926    50 / 75
Grot. Wyrm   2,684       11,095    55 / 80

Of particular note, if true, Izual could make for a very good exp target. Also standing out from the list is:
Tal rasha's tombs (Lv68-70, ~6-7k avg with 10k unravellers and 20k sarcophogi)
Act 3 Side Temples (Lv73-75 ~8k avg with some outliers like 10k vamps)
Trav Council Lv75 (+3 for uniques) (avg 16k exp and x3 for the uniques presumably)

Not particularly useful, but interesting is that mlvl apparently very very slightly increases the chances of their drops rolling rare/magic/etc...

More useful, potentially, is according to Jarulf's charts 151% MF is apparently a breakpoint that forces exceptional items to be magic+ only. They also have an inherently increased chance of being rare, presumably because they cannot be unique or set.

Here's the files I'm speaking about: https://web.archive.org/web/*/pf.chemeng.lth.se/diablo2/*
Very useful info, thanks for sharing. Will go over it more some other time.

I've thought about running Izual but the problem is by level 90 or so the additional clvl-mlvl penalty would make it almost useless.
Yeah, for Lv90:

79 Izual: 5% of 448,866 is 22,443.3xp
82 Urduar: 43% of 18,908 is 8130.44xp
84 Champ Urduar: 81% of 56,704 is 45,946.44xp
85 Unique Urduar: 100% of 94,540xp

80 Groteqsue: 5% of 20,942 is 1047.1xp
82 Champ Grot.: 43% of 62,826 is 27,015.18xp
83 Unique Grot.: 62% of 104,710 is 64,920.2xp

Izual
Lv88 @24% xp gives 107,727.84xp
Lv87 @43% xp gives 193,012.38xp
etc..

Additionally getting through the 70's to a level where you start seeing the bigger exp penalties... 74 (93.6% exp) - 85 (100% exp still @ Lv84) could go pretty quickly though. Lv60's would still receive 75% of izual's exp (and Lv70s, **%), for that matter.

It would be interesting to see how quickly running an urduar champs map would compare to something like p1-2 CS -> p8 Diablo for Lv91/92 characters when the big exp penalties start kicking in for Urduars.
Seeing as there is no players command, I'm all for the champion urdars. Four of them would make for 184k exp per run at lvl 90, which is going to beat big D by miles when they spawn right next to the WP.

Also, you don't really wanna go inside the CS ever with a barb if that can be avoided.
At what point does Diablo give more exp than urdar's? And a reasonable boost such that it is worth a couple of minutes to reach him? Maybe on high player settings with a certain build to clear most of the area (sorc?) and lower his health before the barb kills?
It might be possible to use leap attack (to move and attack) in combination with howl and/or grim totem to do some sort of ghetto variant on the CSZerker. And like WW it wants a big slow hurty stick.

Past that Sorc and necro can certainly do CS. The latter is probably significantly safer in HC, though, particularly if investing in CC curses. A mojomancer, in general, should be pretty viable, for something 'different' that one doesn't see much of these days. IM + Attract is a thing, for example.

If the only goal is Lv93 for gambling, though, it's probably not worth it. Lv92->93 would be pretty rough on Ulduars, but probably still faster than setting up a dedicated CS runner.

Presuming one could get a reasonably fast and safe seal clearer, would Diablo suddenly be a useful/interesting MF target? Other than (presumably uncommon) iLvl 90 rare amulets.
Yeah helvete's method with the Urdars is the way to go until level 93.

Diablo isn't a good source of MF because they only drop decent the first kill. Basically the only good target is the Cow King. Everything else should be gambled or possibly some luck. As you mentioned, Diablo doesn't drop amulets as part of his "common" TC so there near impossible to get one from him.
Oh, I don't remember reading comments on this about hybrid rares, but does anyone know if the number of affixes changes when items are brought forward? I tested just a few items with only 4 affixes which didn't seem to change (I guess in theory it could have been apparently lowered by mixing, though I didn't observe it) but until now I've mostly been saving most rare boots/gloves/rings/ammies and some belt/armor/helm but in order to be a bit more organized I'm thinking of only sticking with 5+ affix rares for non-jewelry.
Has anyone experienced this glitch before? Stamina bar was blue, did not lose stamina while running. No, I didn't have a stamina shrine at all before this happened. Did have a skill shrine a minute or so before I noticed this and took the screenshot. I haven't been able to reproduce the glitch. This was back in nightmare act 2 btw.
View attachment 6134

In other news, the barb above is now a Baron!
View attachment 6135

I was planning on running some hell cows now but heck, they are tough. I've even died once or twice in nightmare cows this morning after doing a few runs.
I get that glitch all the time, I think it has to do with BO or something.
I've seen that glitch a time or two before, but I've not any hints as to what causes it.

Bit of a progress report:



Wrapped up NM last week, and finally got a halfway decent cows map for my barb. I'm finding my blaze sorc is great at doing full cow clears, but has a really hard time having the cow king's death spot be consistent enough to start having predictable enough drop patterns so as to not need like... every unique he can drop ever in order to get a rares cascade. Plus the movement requirements for laying down a blaze trail seems to make sure you hit every possible LE bolt.

The future GFbarb's gear is starting to shape up as well:



The cow king patterns I've had the most luck with thus far has been great for failed unique pikes. Naturally, my barb is a polearm user.
What is blocking like in 1.00? The only character I'd probably go down the max (or near max) block would be the paladin anyway, but is it as easy to achieve to 1.00 as it is in the later patches?
Far easier. Doesn't depend on dex at all. What your shield says, your block will be. Only exception is with a twitch, where you have to add in the extra block.
Great, so just a reasonable amount of dex to help with the AR. Ta muchly.
So, after many, many cow king runs and gambling sessions, I'd like to show off some of the items I've found for my barb! Also got to lvl 61, which is about as far as I usually get in classic, since I only solo play. I tend to lose motivation to get lvl 70+.

Also started a paladin, with the same plan I used to baron a pally in 1.06, which is a hammer/conc/smite build, though smite usage drops off later in the game. I assume that concentration does affect blessed hammer but it's not shown in the character screen, right? I think that's the way it was in 1.03 which was the earliest patch I played a hammerdin. Also, when using holy shield, I remember the block chance shown can go above 75% but is this a display thing only, or can the block chance actually go above 75?

Can anyone confirm whether mace mastery works for staff weapons in 1.00? I did a quick test by starting a barb, played until I got a point in the mastery and found and equipped a staff and it didn't seem to do so. But I didn't do any extensive testing to see if it does work but just not shown on the character screen.
Been doing a little bit of goldfinding:
View attachment 6311
Very nice! Might become handy if I go for dual Patriarchs setup at some point.

Prototype of the end game belt:
View attachment 6313
Perfect extra gold % and cold damage (again, might be needed if I go with Patriarchs), everything else is just a plus.
Very nice. I'm considering just gambling for Rattlecage, but then again, I don't really mind using a pike for weapon. Lvl 91 pretty soon. Some 30M to go, I think. And the risk of death... well... Drinking that much would be more likely to result in MY death, than the death of my character.
I've got all five characters (and a mule) deep into Act 2 normal and I've found about 15 set items and perhaps a half a dozen uniques; the strange thing is the vast majority I these have come from clickables. Is this normal? I don't feel comfortable running multiple instances, so, other than babysitting the mule character, the majority of the time is spent with a party of one. Whould that impact the drops I getting from clickables?
Statistically improbable, but far from "weird" or anything. Sets are more common than rares, and set/rare/uniques never drop from bosses or champions, which might make it seem like all the good stuff comes from normal monsters and clickables. Because it actually does. Only normal monsters, clickables, act bosses and the Cow King can drop set/unique.
 

Albatross

Active member
Mar 17, 2020
467
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Well, actually, when I think about it... There is a very, very slight possibility of getting a set/unique from champions. But it's at something like 1/8th of the chance from a normal monster.
Warning--this is going to be somewhat long and OT, but still relevant to the "cause":

Earlier this year I read this thread thinking why the hell do people play 1.00? Certainly the game can't be very good. You don't have all the nice uniques or runewords like in LOD, no act 5, lower res, etc. But after reading some of the in-depth guides by @Treeharl and @helvete, I gave it a go. Having only played pre-Lod many years ago, it seemed like an entirely different game. Re-learning the way everything was balanced took some time indeed. But to surprise, it ended up being great.

Perhaps the best moment I've had in D2 was with classic. I first played D2 years ago on the family computer, and it took months to reach Diablo. The battle lasted at least an hour or two, it was nuts. But after killing him with my Barbarian, I nearly jumped and told my parents out of excitement. The way in which the game was played, was such that boss fights really meant something. Diablo was supposed to be strong, scary, and something you want to stay away from. Not the easiest part of Chaos runs, whom gets milked like a cow. Hell even cows were scary. A fully geared character has to watch their back against them, or else they're the hamburger.

As great as LOD was, especially 1.07, I think the pinnacle of this franchise was the original game. The great feeling of mowing everything down with a lance barb, or spamming orb/hyrda with a sorc. Farming everything for gold, because it's actually useful for something. Then gambling to unveil that SoJ; or seeing yellow text on the ground, knowing it just might be the ultimate rare, but you have know idea what stats it will have. All of this changed in LoD, perhaps because the devs thought it was too easy; or maybe they didn't like the state of the game. Whatever the reason is, all the stuff about classic which changed, is what made this game awesome. I've never had the same feeling with the Expansion as in 1.00 when my WW barb is just plowing through everything. Sure, seeing a nice ultra-unique after endless rack/boss runs is nice, but where is the "hack-n-slash" feel if your just milking one monster?

It's a shame they patched all the LOD changes into classic, as it would be great to play the original game online. Who knows what Brevik and the Schaefer brothers true intention was. Judging by the 1.10 patch however, I don't think I want to know. They quit Blizzard afterwards, so I'm guessing they simply gave up on the game. Maybe feeling they couldn't repair it, or hacks on bnet were too much to combat. Here's a quote from a mod-maker who seems to get the idea:


Anyhow, I've been taking a break from D2 the past couple months. Sometime this fall I'm going to start up in classic, untwinked. I'm thinking about creating a thorns-paladin, which in case anyone didn't know ATD is really powerful in this patch. I might also do a bowazon.
I have been playing D3 for the last month and see many similarities with Classic.
- Importance of rares, especially in early game.
- Only one unique in classic feels like the personalised loot in D3
- More hack & slash gameplay
- I don’t know what I’m doing in either :)

Edit:
- MF is almost non existent
Was home sick from work for a day and a half this week and I ended up getting a baron title for my paladin. Build was just bh/conc, couple points in smite, couple in redemption, holy shield until it stops improving block chance much (slvl 16). Screenshot is already outdated as he's at lvl 61 now.

Also attached are screenshots of a typo in the quest log (can't believe how many typos there are in 1.0) and the bug in river of flame where a barb can leap (or a sorceress can teleport) onto invisible islands in the River of Flame.

The plan for awhile has been to beat the game with each class in 1.00. Amazon may be next. Not really looking forward to the amazon playthrough. Does anyone have any tips for solo amazon?

(Edit: Holy shield stats seem to indicate that lvl 16 is the last level that increases block chance, maxes out at +21% http://web.archive.org/web/20000816000101/http://www.battle.net:80/diablo2/skills/p3.shtml)

Also about blocking: does it actually work in 1.0? I have something like 66% chance to block and I never see the blocking animation even when standing still.
https://www.diabloii.net/forums/threads/a-guide-to-classic-1-06b.745320/


Defense and blocking are both essentially useless except in PvP. Monsters have a very high AR and will almost always hit, even with 75% block. Have a nice trip :D
That sounds wrong. If that's really the case, no one would ever be using a Sigon's Guard or a 3D tower shield in classic. The attack formula rolls for block completely independently in the expansion, and I'm pretty sure the only thing that changed from classic was that blocking melee attacks had the animation added, whereas in classic it just looked like a miss.

It'd be trivial to test it anyway; just put on a Sigon's Guard and tank some hits and see if 2/3 of incoming attacks are missing.
Sigon's shield is somewhat effective, but due to the bugged AR it still isn't quite as good as a when the bug was fixed. I haven't touched 1.00 in awhile but neither of my characters blocked well and they had about 50-60% chance.

Edit: I'll test it out later and see if it's a broken animation or actually bugged to be much less useful. Been busy with other things.
I was aware of that bug, but I guess I underestimated it. I didn't think it would account for never blocking an attack at all through the whole game.

Also, fun history: here is the first reference to this bug that I can find, by Jarulf no less: http://www.network54.com/Forum/31101/message/966001167/Do+monsters+hit+&quot;to+often&quot;-
I noticed that with the blow-dart Flayers in Normal; dozens of white specks that always find their target!
Encountered something strange this morning while leveling my paladin... A multishot oblivion knight boss who seems to fire arrows? Is this a known thing that I just never noticed before? Seemed to happen about the same time he cast decrepifiy.

Getting the screenshot was harrowing, as I'm sure you know if you've come upon a multishot oblivion knight in hell. The two arrows are visible in the upper-left portion of the curse's cast radius.
Well imagine De Seis on steroids... That's definitely some sort of bug. It looks as though the monsters actually use the multishot skill (i.e. lv 1-3 for arrows).
That's hilarious
I've finally got all five characters (and a mule character) to the end of Normal difficulty and they are somewhere between lvl 27 and 28. What is a good level to begin Nightmare? I am playing each character individually (except for the character that is baby-sitting the mule) therefore I'm only playing at players1, so where is the best place to build up my XP before heading out to NM?
Honestly I would stay in act 4 and do RoF or outer steppes until 30. Then you can power all the way to act 4 hell. Nightmare really isn't that difficult, you can get through it with a level 25 character. Same with hell, I've managed act 4 hell with a level 30 WW barb =)
Ta, I'll give that a try.
I'm so happy i found this thread here! I began 2 weeks ago with Classic 1.00, first with a paladin then with a sorceress! Have anyone of you linked any guides about your choice of builds? I'm thinking about a thorn + conversation-paladin and/or a hydra/FO-sorc with alot of static field.

~ John
Installed D2 again and am working on 1.00.

My barb just hit 35 and my sork is 28. I'm going to spend a few days farming act 4 normal RoF for war scepters/war staffs/grim wands. I've got some nice rares on my barb and sork but the sork is still missing weapon/armor/shield/1 ring. Once I feel like she's good and geared I'll move forward to act 4 Nightmare and spend some time farming. I think I'll be in act 4 hell by Sunday.

My plan is to spend a significant amount of time in 1.00 before I move up to 1.06b and onward.

Unfortunately I went the softcore route. I've got quite a few projects I want to complete here. My primary goal is a 1.10f bonemancer. I missed out on making one before the Marrowwalk bug was patched. I'd like to gear one up and get into the mid-90's.
I finally got all five characters to level 30, so it is time to venture into Nightmare. During my leveling I found my first SoJ and this little beauty!

View attachment 7296
How many affixes do rares get? I'm trying to calculate the best possible stats I can get on a +2 sorc amulet with fcr and resist.
6 max, so best possible would be 2/10 with [email protected], with one resist at 73, then maybe 119% extra gold and some amount of life or str.

However, this requires item level 90 -2 so must be gambled, as Diablo himself doesn't drop amulets (to my knowledge).

You can also save up skulls and reroll any rare amulet with 6 perfect skulls in 1.06b - this will set ilvl to 99, making any affix available.
 

Albatross

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Mar 17, 2020
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You the man!
I've been dealing with this since last night. I just looked at my barb and he had 1233/777 life in his bulb. I went to Akara and it didn't fix itself. I removed my barbs helmet that offered +37 life and put it back on. My health corrected itself. Now I no longer get a crash when I put my cursor from the Guest character to the Host character. I had six crashes with three different characters after placing the cursor on the host. All within the same game.

Game is still up and running right now. I would make sure your hosts life is correct the next time this happens.
If you go out of town and BO you should be fine. Or just make sure to leave the game after BO runs out before hosting a new one.
Interesting thought regarding hybrid sets... I discovered these two items:
View attachment 7371 View attachment 7372

Pair these two with the original (1.10+) gloves, and you'll get:
Knockback
6% DUAL leech
Slow 25%
20% IAS
25% CB
+2.5 AR/lvl
... And the freedom to choose ANY weapon, even bows!

Looks like a killer twink option for bowazons, right? Especially if you want one pre-1.13 where respec isn't an option?
Required level 4...

Interesting development here! It's a shame you can't use that in 1.09 for a killer Guided+Pierce zon. I tried out all sets to see what morphs. Here's the table:
Code:
Classic Set               Morphs into (1.10+)      Base Item
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cleglaw's Brace           Civerb's Cudgel          Grand Scepter
Hsarus' Defense           Civerb's Icon            Amulet
Civerb's Vestments        Civerb's Ward            Large Shield
Cathan's Traps            Cleglaw's Claw           Small Shield
Tancred's Battlegear      Cleglaw's Pincers        Chain Gloves
Milabrega's Regalia       Cleglaw's Tooth          Long Sword
Isenhart's Armory         Hsarus' Iron Fist        Buckler
Iratha's Finery           Hsarus' Iron Heel        Chain Boots
Vidala's Rig              Hsarus' Iron Stay        Belt
Berserker's Arsenal       Iratha's Coil            Crown
Sigon's Complete Steel    Iratha's Collar          Amulet
Death's Disguise          Iratha's Cord            Heavy Belt
Infernal Tools            Iratha's Cuff            Light Gauntlets
Arcanna's Tricks          Isenhart's Case          Breast Plate
Angelic Raiment           Isenhart's Lightbrand    Broad Sword
Arctic Gear               Isenhart's Parry         Gothic Shield
What determines the morph? Is it a shift in an array or something in the code?
Ah, so any one piece from a given set will morph into the *same* piece of another? That should make for some interesting options... If you don't want the knockback from Cleglaw, you can use tancred boot, armor or amulet...

And the entire Iratha's set is available as different items o_O

Shame there is a lot of items missing. Would love a death's weapon morphed into a shield or ring.

EDIT: So a Civerb shield should remain unchanged? The most promising seems to be avoiding use of a set weapon, although Civerb scepter is actually quite reasonable to use for twinking.

EDIT2: Sigon shield instead of using an amulet for iratha set should provide some extra safety, not to mention the free amulet slot. Use the morph belt for CBF as well.
You are correct Helvete, any item in a given set will morph into the same item when brought forward (Civerb's Ward is the only one that works). This should lead to some kinky mix-matching. Although the Cleglaw is probably the best.

@pharphis This bug is so stupid it's not even funny. Hybrid rares are actually randomized, where as sets are not. Prior to 1.10, all set items and the bonuses were in a file called "SetItems.txt". In 1.10, they changed it so each individual item is stored in "SetItems.txt" while the complete set bonuses are in "Sets.txt". The problem is they didn't update the conversion code, so each set item get's its' inherent ID from the individual items in SetItems, which previously contained all sets itself. Would be really easy for them to fix this!

Edit: updated the above table for readability

Edit #2: Now imagine this for twinking:
1.10 Cleglaw's Pincers (Gloves)
1.10 Isenhart's Horns (Helm)
1.00 Milabrega's Robe (Armor)--Cleglaw's Tooth
1.00 Cathan's Seal (Ring)--Cleglaw's Claw
1.00 Arctic Binding (Light Belt)--Isenhart's Parry
1.00 Angelic Halo (Ring)--Isenhart's Lightbrand
1.00 Arcanna's Sign (Amulet)--Isenhart's Case

This would give you BOTH full set bonuses of Cleglaw and Isenhart at Clvl 8, freeing up weapon, shield, and boots. If you wanted a different belt for 4 rows and no knockback, you could also do:

1.00 Arctic Mitts (Light Gauntlets)--Isenhart's Parry
1.00 Tancred's Hobnails (Boots)--Cleglaw's Pincers

Which takes up the boot slot but frees up the belt..............

And to top it all off, a bugged Raven Claw with level 33 arrows!
I finally did it!

View attachment 7403

Also in regards to overall 1.00 progress, i've found a wealth of good items but nothing so far has motivated me to start an amazon. I've beat the game with ever other class, but I'm feeling that zon will be difficult so i've put it off.

e/ also some other items i've found lately which i don't think i shared
View attachment 7404 View attachment 7405 View attachment 7406
Those items are beautiful. I really like that ring.

Question: These Superior Mage Plates that drop. If I forward them to 1.13, will they have the same defence as their 1.13 counterparts?

I'm also struggling with putting together what prefixes/suffixes and how many are possible to spawn on items. Is there a link available to that information? I haven't had time to go through all 28 pages of this thread but will hopefully have time sometime this week.

I saw what Treeharl posted regarding the affix tables. However, I'm unsure of what exactly can and cannot spawn.
*puts in wooden teeth*
I cannot tell a lie, I can't wrap my head around playing a zon in 1.00. I've only /ever/ played bow zons and usually use strafe. But I get the impression that one has to use javs because of the bow ED bug.

re: affixes, there's no "magic only" affixes, if that's what you mean. If an affix can spawn on a magic item of a given type, it can also spawn on a rare of that type. Up to 6 affixes, 3 pre- and 3 post-, afaik
So, I started an Amazon, and it's been pretty slow going. Jab is insanely good (being frozen AND decrepify do NOT slow the attack speed of jab!!!). But without magic, rare, or unique javelin-class weapons, it loses power pretty fast. I twinked this character with some goodies including a twitch, bloodfist, and some other stuff. Then at clvl 25 i gifted her a pair of superior harpoons, just for use as a melee weapon. Still not that great, I'm afraid. Also gave her a failed unique 130 dmg pike for jabbin'; damage with it is great but shieldless is no bueno so i don't use it that much.

She's currently at lvl28 in nm act4 (I did self-MP with my sorc to help her along a bit. zon in 1.00 is hard stuff!!). And let me tell you, this is one of the most difficult Diablo 2 experiences I have had. More pics coming later but, I did encounter this which seemed strange-- is this something that is possible in later patches? Or have I just never noticed it?
View attachment 7543
I've converted all of my 1.00 characters to 1.05b and I'll be starting a bowazon there to finish off my classic penta-char completion. Playing an amazon in 1.00 was so difficult in Heck Difficulty that I just tapped out altogether. I had been getting rather bored in 1.00 anyway because of how easy it is to get insanely good items.

So, farewell for now.

I intend to return to 1.00 but I'll be doing so in a fresh state.
@Barl Amazons are great in 1.05. The biggest letdown in 1.00 is that pierce is capped to 50% (on top of ED bug)

Jab works wonders with Lances now that you can find them. Multishot is also sick, and Immo Arrow is good for stacking.
Alright - started my 1.00 run too. Like @helvete mentioned in his guide I started with 8 dudes (2 barbs and 6 sorcs) 2 of which are leveled (1 barb and sorc obviously).
Quick question cause I havent quite found the time to read the whole thread: can u mule with atma in 1.00 ?
atma doesn't work pre 1.07 and I'm not sure it works at all in any later classic version, either. Probably not
I hope Gheed makes use of all those precious gold coins...
These boots are a start, but I'm wondering how often it's actually supposed to roll "+20" but you get 19 due to the n-1 bug. I see 19 quit a bit, some I'm guessing this would be the case here.
Also, I dug more into the item/affix generation code, and will post some info on that at a later date.
View attachment 7873
a bit off topic here but, if you're as interested in classic diablo II as i am, give this forum archive a look: http://www.network54.com/Forum/31101

it covers from september 1999 to april 2001, so pre-release to a bit before the expansion's release in 2001. many of the classic bugs we are aware of now (n-1, the 4x monster AR, etc) are discussed there and it's super interesting to me. jarulf is even present here and he's one of the first people i can identify as being interested in and able to gather technical info about the game.

the only problem is, there is no search function. i tried to make an archive with a script but it took more than 24 hours and the script crashed. is there anyone here who could archive, analyze, sort, and make a working sort function for these forums? i feel like it's important to the game's history.
@Barl I've ran into that site before but I thought It was only 20 pages long lol. Thanks for pointing out it covered back to 1999.

There is a wealth of information on this old website. In particular, there is quite a bit of info on both the Classic and LoD beta. I was checking April 2000 (pages 350-360) and stumbled upon a hidden gem. The patch notes from the original beta!

You can view a copy of everything below, but in particular I'd like to point out the following changes:

Apparently, Static Field was just disgusting during the beta. It did a whopping 33% damage, it went through walls, and even had a minimum damage of 1! This means you could actually kill monsters with it. The Sorceress was nerfed pretty hard before 1.00 came out. Apparently MS was nerfed too, multiple arrows would hit the same target (I though that was the case in 1.00?).

Overall, it seems Static Field was originally intended to be a continuation of 'Apocalypse' from the first game. It was just as powerful. The next note about quest items. Does that mean we could've got infinite Skill Books/Elixirs from the Radament/Alkor quest?

Anyway, this is a cool find. There are a few posts by Jarulf way back. I'll try to go through all 300 pages when I get the time. But for now, you can search by doing the following in google:


(It seems Blizzard likes to nerf everything upon the 10th patch, i.e. 1.10 for the final game)
Code:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Version 1.10
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Diablo II will default to DirectDraw after this patch. To change video
display options, please run VidTest.exe located in your Diablo II Beta
directory.

General/Interface Changes
* Changed Gold drop/deposit/withdraw screen
* Chat and Message Log can be displayed at the same time.
* Shortcut Descriptions for page up and page down are now different.
* 'N' key now clears text messages in trade and stash screens.
* Automap is recentered after exiting game and creating a new game.
* New Player Icon Scroll buttons have been added to the chat interface.
The smaller top buttons should scroll by one character, the bottoms buttons
scroll on a page basis.

Art Changes
* Brood War Icon should display differently than Starcraft Icon on
Battle.net chat interface.
* Chat Client Icon should no longer be the Ghost Icon.
* Some new spell effects for shrines and special abilities have been added.

Skill Changes:
* Starting Radius for Static Field decreased.
* Static Field should no longer go through walls.
* Lightning no longer gets a minimum damage increase per level.
* Charged Bolt's damage has been reduced.
* Increased mana cost by a small percentage for many skills.

Bug Fixes:
* Chat sent from battle.net to a player in a game should no longer be
truncated.
* You can now tab to the character difference level in the Create Game
Dialog Box.
* Town Portals should now display the creator's name.
* Can now move quest items in trade screen when legal to do so.
* MessageLog is now updated on the fly
* Choking Gas and Rancid Gas Potions displayed in hand are now correct.
* Oil and Fulminating Potions have correct Inventory Graphics.
* Players in party of person who solves Horadric Malus Quest must be level 8 or
greater to recieve the reward.
* Warriv's Menu says 'Go East' After you hear the reward speech.
* Palette should be correct if you alt-tab out of the game.
* Players should not be able to get multiple quest items by trading.

Graphics Changes
* Cutscenes in DirectDraw no longer open and close windows between cutscenes.
* Direct3D nVidia Detonator workaround has been removed. You need to have 5.08
Beta Detonator drivers for Direct3D on nVidia chipset cards, but it is MUCH faster.
* You can now adjust the Gamma in DirectDraw
* Gamma now uses the game settings for Battle.net as it does for the game.
* Shadows of characters in Battle.net chat screen should now be correct.
* VidTest.exe has been updated.

If you are playing under Direct3D and have less than 128MB of RAM on your system,
we would encourage you to try playing the game under DirectDraw and see if your
performance improves.

ATTENTION ALL USERS OF TNT,TNT2 and GeForce cards:
In this version of Diablo II Beta if you are using Direct3D and do not have the
5.08 Beta Detonator drivers, all your textures will be garbled. DirectDraw and
Glide users are unaffected.

Detonator 5.08 Beta Drivers may be obtained at:
http://www.3dchipset.com/beta/nvidia/win9x.asp

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Version 1.02 to 1.07
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

* Changes to Battle.net connectivity code to make Diablo II more robust when
losing network connection.

* Corrected Prices of Magic Items.

* Fixed Starcraft Client Avatar in the Battle.net Chat Screen.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I was watching a few videos of others who had tried 1.00. In one of the videos the player retired the character into Act 2 NM . The build was a concentration zealot who was played untwinked.

Even with the tips provided , the player gave up
I thought , is this impossible to get a paladin past act 2 NM?

So instead of playing the usual champion runs with the Sorc , I set off in this untwinked adventure. I ignored the urge to rush him to hell and level him in maggots.

I decided to change the build slightly and make a hybrid.

The plan is for Might/Thorns Zealot with some conversion. Never tried conversion before. I decided against concentration because if I plan to self multi play I think concentration has no AoEon the aura or at least there is nothing in the skill description

Thorns because reflected damage is powerful in 1.00. The IM/BG Necro is very good and Thorns reflects 10x the damage at slvl 20. The conversion may be like getting a few revives. I never tried this skill before so do not know if this will work

5 pts Zeal after +skills for 6 attacks maximum. Zeal attacks is slvl + 1 in 1.00 and if you miss one zeal attacks all the attacks after miss also

Might for ED in party play, Fanaticism does not give ED in 1.00

Defensive auras prayer for party healing and redemption for his healing, a point or few in Meditation, Vigor and Salvation

Early game, get a point in might and one point wonders then get 4 points in Zeal and max Thorns ASAP

Apart of the obvious the key thing about SP 1.00 is unless you do full clears you will lag behind in levels. I found a couple of things . I spent about 16 hours in total to get to Lvl 28 untwinked and defeat big D. Yes that is a long time!

1. I hired a cold merc for Act 1 Normal. With the might aura going, she was actually killing stuff and was somewhat useful until got pwned at the inner cloister waypoint. She level up when I levelled . This happen twice before she sied. But when she killed the monsters that seemed to not drop anything unless they were bosses and champs. I let her basically clear the stony field . I know Mercs are useless in pre 1.07 but that seemed like an interesting bug

2. Levelling in the false tombs in Act 2 and Kurast temples in Act 3. This got me lots of gold and useful stuff so I was able to gamble the basics. But this still takes a long time. I used Kahlims Will to clear the temples . What am awesome weapon in normal for this patch . The zealot kicked butt with this and when he got surrounded, melee packs died to thorns, It meant I just needed to tank with few healing potions

3. This build is not mana dependent so the lack of mana potions is not a problem

4. Would this be effective in a higher players setting , any experience with that

5. Does thorns stack with IM?

6. with a low AR will he hit anything but fresh air in Hell? I am looking for a rare divine spectre with of piercing for ITD . Still havent found one. I thinks spectres can have ITD

7. Following this, will this build be an effective normal cow runner. He could be a rare collector and SoJ hunter.

Any thoughts on this?
 

Albatross

Active member
Mar 17, 2020
467
78
28
Does anyone have the modified dll file for 1.00 to allow for multiple instances? I'm afraid the original link in the forum sticky no longer works.
Stickies are in the process of being updated. I've uploaded singling for 1.00 here. It also has a fix for windowed mode to keep it from auto-minimizing and speeds up TCP loading times, which should make muling/rushing much less of a hassle.
[not 1.00 specific, just classic in general]

man, multi-shot lightning enchanted bosses (MLEB or MSLEB depending on your community/parlance back in the day) are very often just instant kill monsters. lightning enchanted in general is just very very dangerous. is this why they allowed the affix for 40+ lightning res on armor/helms/belts? instead of balancing the monsters, just make lightning res more easy to come by? i believe the prefix is "amber".
Actually the affix pool is more similar to Diablo I in many ways. Just like it, single resists go up to 50% (49 with bug). This was likely reduced in the Expansion because of the new items and charms, and they wanted to balance out how easy it would be to get max resists (consider the -100 penalty also).
I was referring to the ability of the "amber" prefix to spawn on armor, helms, and belts while the other 31-49 single resist affixes don't:

Code:
Ruby       Fire Resist        31-50% Wands, Staves, Boots, Rings, Amulets
Sapphire   Cold Resist        31-50% Wands, Staves, Bows, Boots, Rings, Amulets
Amber      Lightning Resist   31-50% Armor, Staves, Wands, Bows, Boots, Belts, Rings, Amulets
Emerald    Poison Resist      31-50% Scepters, Rings, Amulets
(http://web.archive.org/web/20000818010139/http://www.battle.net:80/diablo2/items/pre.shtml)

I also didn't realise that the 31-49 poison resist was available on the fewest items compared to the others.
@Tenecabo I think all the DLLs are included in Trenshadow, but you need to enable (i.e. rename and swap) them.
Alternatively they are here
Thanks guys, got it to work, 1.00 adventures await!
I've decided to start fresh again on 1.00 after getting bored with 1.05. going to archive the 1.05 saves and set aside.

I think I want to do a 1.00 let's play or long-play. Starting with a bloodgolemancer as it's my favorite build. Stay tuned.
Hello everybody!

After 8 years searching for the grail in Patch 1.13c only Tyraels is missing. But I´m getting somewhat tired of spending thousands of hours in the Ancient Tunnels with my Level 97 HC-sorc @ /players 1. I think I´m going to put my whole Diablo 2-Installation to rest, park it on my NAS and start somethimg new. Timetravelling like many of you guys do I´d like to try.

I would like to start with Patch 1.00 and obviously I would like to start with HC ;-) That´s what I did the last ten years and I don´t want to miss the thrill of being toasted in the blink of an eye.

So, the only problem is: when you start with Patch 1.00 there´s no chance to start with HC because you have to beat Diablo in SC/Normal Difficulty before you get the chance to roll over to the darker side ...

But that´s a real pain for me so here´s what I´d like to ask: is it allowed that somebody, who has already beaten Diablo on Normal Difficulty, send me a naked 1.00-HC character named something like "HC_Start"?

I would really appreciate that. If it´s not allowed then it´s ok. But if yes I´d be glad if someone send me a character via email that I could give via PN.

(Excuse my bad english, I´m not a native speaker.)

Regards, Tom
Good luck both. Interested to see how you guys will be doing.
I suggest you start in SC. 1.00 Classic is one of the most difficult patches I have played, you may want to get the feel of it first.

Please have a read of the rules - An intro thread would be nice too :)
SC doesn´t feel right for me ...
... I might/probably will fail with the first character. But that´s the game. I am the hero, every decision should make sense and be thought over. At the end of every run I like watching my character in the startscreen. Not dead! ;)

I will open an intro thread when I´m ready with my installation of Diablo 2. At the moment I´m struggling with Trenshadows Switcher. It doesn´t start because some .dll is missing. I installed a clean 1.12 Version from my Diablo III Collector´s Edition USB-Stick ...
My party of 8 is lvling in hell RoF now, got the barb at 78, the sorc at 67 and the mules/chars to forward to 1.07 etc at 56. I've been picking up amethysts and rubies apart from the skulls and I believe that by the time I'm done I'll have a nice collection to forward to 1.14. I've been leaving my skulls at flawless right now and will try to shrine them up to perfect.
Gambled 5 sojs so far, trying to get all of my sorcs to be forwarded 2, and a good set of starter rares. Have found a couple of nice rares so far, but sadly they all miss one stat to make them crazy good, or they have all the right stats but on the low end. Damn you RNG!
Don't use trenshadow, use bliss version switcher. It's far more up to date, and have been patched and upgraded a lot in the past year or two.
So, I made it to act 4 normal with my bloodomancer. I saw a hilarious unique monster name in act 3: View attachment 9491


Also, if you didn't find me on twitter (@harddorothy), long ago I posted this wonderful edit of a Diablo II screenshot back when I was doing my initial exploration of 1.00:

View attachment 9490
Damnit.. it seems they've recently changed the forum to use the Tapatalk format, which has effectively removed a big portion of the information, and made searching even harder. Many, many replies were (partly) posted as Titles, but those titles were deleted with the change, destroying a lot of good information in the process. :(

I started pre-LOD only a few weeks ago, and since I found your post with a link to that forum, I've been thoroughly enjoying the amount of information that is not yet "polluted" by all the post-Classic info.

The wayback machine is way slow, and the majority of the site is broken via it.
Quite bummed out. I don't suppose you've ripped the entire forum? ^^
oh crap!!

no, i completely forgot about that. frick!! i didn't think the archive would be altered anytime soon since it's been the same since 2001... lol. what a horrible stroke of luck.

well, i do have a very partial archive somewhere, but i'll have to find it.

all the more reason for someone to please find a way to archive this now! please
Well it seems all the information is still intact, but it is indeed harder to search. I backed up some of the older pages that had information about the battle.net beta, but I've considered writing a script to dump the whole forum in .MHTML format so it can be accessed anytime. It's a shame they updated that. It was a legacy forum from 1997-20001, no reason to change it now.
perhaps not all information is literally deleted, but not all of it is accessible any longer. replies were done as Title + Post, but those titles are not showing any longer. if you view a user's post history, for some reason there the titles will show up, but many posts were not made with logged-in accounts, and thus you can't view the titles of their posts. it's a mess now :/

when i saw the search field at the top, i figured that must be the reason for the change. Nope. it's not working.
why would they bother with this change 17 years after the forum was closed? ;D
 

Albatross

Active member
Mar 17, 2020
467
78
28
Well, good news. Seems like the tapatalk is now working correctly. Post titles are back and the search function is working. It's better now than it was before it was changed IMO, for example here's some information on the battle.net beta circa April 2000:
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/thelurkerlounge/search.php?keywords=beta 1.07&sf=all&author=&st=0&
titles are still missing in the threads themselves. :/
they show up for the posts in the search hit, but click any of the posts, and no titles will not show up in the threads.

it's great that the search function is at least doing something of course, but i'd still prefer the older version where 1) all titles show up in the threads and 2) all replies(titles) show up on the pages. it was quick and easy to scan for useful information before, when all replies to threads where all lined up below one another.

edit: just to give examples of what i mean:
https://web.archive.org/web/20040825003604/http://www.network54.com/Forum/31101
https://web.archive.org/web/2004092...orum/thread?forumid=31101&messageid=987179116

(just took two random links from the wayback machine.)
as you can see, in the threads you will see the title above the content, which is no longer the case. and on the forum pages you will see all the titles (of the replies) in a long list underneath one another. this made it really easy and fast to just scan for "interesting information". it also helps to see who replied. there were a couple of very knowledgeable posters, like jarulf, crystalion, charis, trucidation, to name a few.
before, i could just of scan/search for replies from these members and it would usually give me valuable, or at least interesting information.

the search function is great if you already know what specifically you're looking for, but it will not catch abbreviations for example, and there's also a lot of good information on those forums that you wouldn't even think of searching for.


/rant
man, i can't get 1.00 to run :(
1.06b works just fine, so i'm not sure what the problem is.

i tried running game.exe, diabloii.exe, i tried -w, -window, -windowed, i tried directdraw, direct3d, glide, a bunch of different compatibility options, running as administrator.
whether i run game.exe or diabloii.exe, the process will show up in task manager for a few seconds, then just vanish. nothing else happens.
i have the play disc mounted, and the install is clean/legit. i tried singling to see if that would magically fix the problem, but it didn't.

what else can i try? i searched the forum for a bit, but it doesn't look like this is a common problem.
Are you on Windows 10? Mine works fine with these settings:

Compatibility for XP sp2
Run as administrator

(With the modified game.exe to allow for multiple instances and fullscreen)

On other 1.00 news, I found the hurtiest stick I've ever seen in 1.00:

View attachment 9860

Shame it's not a failed unique, I didn't have the unique pike on the character during the run.

Also, here's an example of an insane drop from the King of Cow:

View attachment 9861

Needless to say, my new run of 1.00 has been going well. Almost have enough gear to start a barb.
@Fruit just wondering who version of Win 10 you are using, Home , Pro, something else?
Maybe try doing a fresh install from the CDs after a backup of your existing folders.

Also, try turning off UAC if that is on

If the version of 10 you use that supports multiple user profiles, trying install under new profile with admin access, it maybe user profile related?

In one case last year, an older version Bliss' Switcher did not work for 1.00 after I installed it and I had to go back to my orig backup but the version I have now works

@Barl, looks like a nice stick . The damage is very high. Just need that on a failed unique and you are good to go.
thanks for the suggestions guys! 1.00 is running. :)



well.. wow.
i assume that was from the cow king? in that case, your %damage rolls are almost perfect! (perfect %ed should be 38-175 damage)
unfortunately, he is just too low level (-2) for the King's prefix :p so he won't be able to drop the actual hurtiest stick. (no +2 skills from him either, of course.)


edit: dunno if this was known, because i kept reading that "whirlwind attacks every frame in 1.00"; it's not true. whirlwind attacks every fourth frame just like in every other Classic patch. why it does so much damage in 1.00-1.02 is because it attacks twice in that frame. (according to the patch notes this was reduced in 1.03.) i've tested/confirmed it by recording at 25fps and playing back the result frame-by-frame. i'd be happy to generate some proof if anyone cares (and has a good suggestion how that would look).
That's true, WW never attacked every frame. But another little known fact is that the damage bonus and mana cost for WW is twice as high compared to 1.01+. (A level 20 WW costs ~63 mana and gives 235% ED IIRC, roughly 35 mana/110 ED in 1.01).

Also, WW and Static Field were both nerfed several times during the beta. So Blizzard has repeatedly nerfed them ever since bringing them into existence.

Rough timeline of the nerfs from the first beta to retail 1.01: [More nerfs in 1.03/1.07/1.08]
hahah... they didn't see that one coming? :D



ah, so it was 1.01 :) classic blizzard-ninja-nerf. they started their tradition early, it seems!
i noticed the difference between 1.00 and 1.06, but there was nothing about it in the patch notes.
(was it a little known fact? the skill description correctly displays it :p)

btw, do you happen to know anything about this?
i noticed in skills.txt that Whirlwind has a SrcDam of 4, but it's "not working":
1=50%, 2=100%, 4=100%. i expected 4 to translate to at least 200%, but nein. no other numbers are used in this column (besides 0).
they may have intended to give whirlwind double damage with this value(?), but perhaps it just wasn't implemented to go beyond 100%.
this value is 4 for WW in 1.00-1.06b, but it doesn't look like it ever did anything.

also, i checked out the whirlwind search radius in 1.00. i assume (some of) you are familiar with the "star bug" of auras. well, as (some of) you know, whirlwind uses the same radius calculation as all other radius-based skills.
white = search radius of whirlwind, purple = melee range of pike versus cows:

..which means that whirlwind has the tendency to pick targets outside of melee range, and in turn you will not attack anything.

in 1.04 they fixed the star-bug, with the consequence that the radii for most skills were reduced to "unacceptably small" sizes (perhaps to their intended sizes?), so in 1.05 they increased the radii for all skills, whirlwind included: this is what the search radius looked like after that "fix". /genius!
(1.06 did not fix the whirlwind search radius. perhaps 1.07 did?)

1.03 fixed enhanced damage on maul-weapons, but pre- and post-1.04, the search radius of WW was really just too large for mauls to work well. (so if you like mauling, get to 1.04.)

talking pre-1.07: 1.00 should be by far the best patch for whirlwind versus single-targets, while whirlwind in 1.04 should be better against large groups, especially for short-range weapons.

lastly, i'll quote myself on frozen orb:


this is true for 1.00-1.06b. i wonder if this bug has ever been fixed? and if yes, when?
(sorry about the stuttering/lag, no idea what i'm doing.)


if only singling still supported all patches :p
(besides whirlwind, 1.04 strafe should be amazing since it (and guided arrow) multiplies total bow damage, rather than base bow damage. though, the star-bug fix from 1.04 also affected strafe's search radius.)


edit: does anyone know anything about this? (from the 1.03 patch notes)
@Fruit

That makes sense as when I cows , I always try to whirl around the outside of the big group to tip them from out of their melee range at they get hit . But whirl too close and the ones closest smack you and others in the other side of the pack are getting it. So WW in 1.00 12 attacks a second or thereabouts. If you use IceBlink when WW that may make this easier to see

@GalaXyHaXz


Defense

There is a lot of discussion about def being of little value in 1.00. So for the monsters in the RoF and CS Hell what is their AR? I recently found this and so would be interested if this OP on a barb would be any use

View attachment 9900
It's certainly less value but from experience I can attest that throwing on a huge def armor like that helps quite a bit on barb.

Or maybe I'm misremembering and just thinking of the "chance to be hit" values
barb with iron skin, shout and high-defense gear should still have a proper defense rating. but i'm just going by what others have said :D

this formula came from a 2000-post from the archived lurkerlounge forum, probably from Jarulf, but i can't remember.


the issue is that monster AR is multiplied by 4.
for example doom knight is lvl 74 and has 343 attack rating according to monstats.txt (so 1372 attack rating).
urdar is lvl 82 and has either 514 or 380 attack rating, depending on which attack he uses. so that would be 2056 or 1520.
i honestly have no clue how high a barb's defense rating can get if you stack it. i also don't know if the character screen is even accurate about it :p
but if you take your current defense rating and clvl, and run them through the formula together with the stats from one of the above monsters, it should give you an idea of how valuable defense is.



made a fun (or so i think :cool:) image of lvl20 Static Field:
@Fruit

Thank-you. Those are the stats I am looking for

So a boss champion back have much higher AR again , e.g. champion 2 x AR, 2 x damage, etc
I will give it the armour a try for one of the barbs but if the boss has 4000+ AR, defence to still less relevent I guess.

@pharphis your work with the HC 1.00 whirler last year will convince me. I expect to get at least 2K def minimum with Iron and Shout

@Fruit
Also I presume, Corpse Explosion is affected by the same star feature setup. It is great research.
I also seem to think that monsters walking either NE, NW, SE or SW through a blizzard seems to increase the damage they take.
i have no clue what bonuses champions get exactly, haven't found specifics on it.
the damage part would be easy to test, but the AR part might be hard to find out. (unless someone has peaked at the code.)

i can imagine that high defense will make a noticeable difference, but defense rating is something i'm ignoring until i have the gear to support it. for now, my shout and iron skin will remain base level 1 as prequisites. with a massive armor like yours i might change my mind :p



it is, and its radius is almost as large as static field: -1 tile at all levels (when comparing equal levels), and because of the bug, -2 tiles for vertical and horizontal.
the same star shape should apply to all auras, all curses (except attract i guess), most skills with a search radius (whirlwind, guided arrow, bone spirit, strafe, lightning fury, etc), slow missiles, inner sight, freezing arrow, fireball, meteor, glacial spike, etc.
i believe the search radius of hydra heads uses a different calculation; it seems to have the shape of a rectangle (landscape). there may be more exceptions. :)

Edit: interesting! Blizzard works quite uniquely:


clarification (hopefully):
similar to Pierce, Blizzard uses the location as seed. in blizzard's case, the seed is used to determine the pattern of projectiles.
so, casting 100 blizzards at the same spot will produce 100 times the same pattern. this seed is not just used to determine where projectiles will drop, but also which projectile graphic is used.

39 tiles (3 lines of 13 tiles each) can be picked by blizzard to shoot a projectile at. (these tiles/lines can be seen on the image above.)
the lines are not hardcoded, but rather a result of the radius.
this skill does not use the same calculation for radius as other skills, and does not suffer from the star bug.
the radius of the projectiles themselves seem to be hardcoded and are only 5 tiles (an X, basically).

hopefully the image is clear enough: i cast Blizzard until my mana bubble was empty, and took a screenshot to show that the impact graphics are all lined up. the imaginary rectangle is 9 by 13 (117 tiles total), but Blizzard will never shoot a projectile at 78 of those tiles.

and to explain what i meant with "pattern of projectiles", let's say p = projectile.
blizzard is cast:
p1 is shot at coordinate (0, 3)
p2 is shot at (4, -4)
p3 is shot at (-4, 10)
p4 is shot at (0, -12)
p5 is shot at (4, 2)
etc
now if blizzard would be cast again (and again) at the same location, then the exact same pattern will show every single time.




that number ("average chance a level X monster will hit you") is as good as worthless, as the *4 multiplier isn't taken into account. :(
(and what AR number does the CS even use, anyway?)

not sure about "chance to hit". i recall reading there were bugs with some skills that gave an AR bonus, but it looks like i never saved that/those post(s). :<
From a gameplay perspective the cross pattern this is the reason why stationery targets are never damaged but if moving and once hit, every stacked blizzard shard seems to hit. Certainly stacking blizzards does cause lots of damage. It seems that next delay does not exist or is set very low but I don't know enough about the code to say for sure.
You're absolutely right -- there is no delay at all for the projectiles. So if you stack Blizzards like crazy, and 10 projectiles spawn at the same location at the same frame, they will all hit.

What may also be interesting to know is that Blizzard has a physical damage portion. (Yes, Amplify Damage increases Blizzard damage!) This damage is not included in the skill description: (3+(slvl)). So at slvl 20, a projectile deals 23 physical damage on top of the listed (cold) damage.
Definitely a nice bonus when enemies have high cold resistance, but low physical resistance.

Another thing that may be interesting to know is that the projectiles actually deal their damage at the frame they spawn at, and not according to the graphics. To illustrate:


The point of the outline (of the health bar) is to show that the projectile has already dealt its damage, even though it has just spawned. When (graphically) the projectile ultimately lands/disappears (and you see the splash on the ground), no damage is being dealt at all, it's is really just "empty graphics".
(Edit: The reason the cow isn't blue is because I had removed the cold damage portion to confirm the skill deals physical damage. Sorry about that!)
Have blizzard's mechanics changed since then, especially the seeded targeting part?
Some things have, some things haven't: https://www.theamazonbasin.com/wiki/index.php/Blizzard

I don't doubt that there is still a similar seed system in place in 1.14, but I do doubt it still uses the location it was cast at (as seed). The Basin wiki does say "somewhat random pattern", perhaps the somewhat indicates that whoever contributed that part of the page had noticed re-occurring patterns.

The missile interval is the same (every fourth frame).
No clue about at what point the missiles deal damage in 1.14. From memory (playing good ol' 1.14), I suspect that has always been the same as well.

The Basin wiki says nothing about physical damage, so I suppose that has been removed at some point.
The area of effect is definitely very different (1.14 Blizzard seems to use the same radius calculation as other skills.)

Oh, and the projectiles are size 2 in 1.00 as well (not hardcoded). Size refers to a different system than radius: https://www.theamazonbasin.com/wiki/index.php/Size
So, it's the same size as players, and monsters like cows. That explains the X. :)



Edit: The awareness radius of Hydra heads seems to be a hardcoded 26. Now, this isn't very interesting, but what's funny is that this radius was actually coded correctly, while the one used for almost everything else was not. :D
Here's Static Field (radius 24) compared to Hydra awareness (radius 26):

(Yes, it's a cow. Just pretend it's a Hydra head.)

They meant for radius to create an octagon, but the goof caused it to become a cross.
(Note the x and y on the image, which is how the game sees coordinates. Not in vertical and horizontal the way we see the game as players.)
The orange radius you see there is actually the shape that radius-based skills like Static Field should have used.

So what went wrong?
Well, a - was placed where a + should be, so as L goes up (see below), the radius enlarges (rather than shrinks).
The correct one (that Hydra uses): | G + L / 2 | < R
The broken one (star radius): | G - L / 2 | < R
G = greater of x and y
L = lesser of x and y
R = radius
The | signs mean this.

(I didn't figure this part out myself, it turned out this was already known late 2000.)
I suppose blizzard doesn't leech, right? What about in older versions?
@Fruit I love your enthusiasm about digging deeper into the game. It's great to have people like you around, who can still provide us some fresh information about an old old patch!

Way to go! :)
Wow, hidden physical damage. So the skill maybe is stronger than advertised. Great research again with the blizz and hydra

@pharphis, that would be hilarious if a sorc could leech with blizzard.
 

Albatross

Active member
Mar 17, 2020
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Thank you Grape!
I actually really appreciate the comment, as I often feel hesitant to share findings.

So thanks. :)





Unfortunately it doesn't. :D (Not in 1.00 at least.) That would've been so much fun.
Every time I start up Diablo, a part of me hopes to find a bug like that. Especially a bug that would actually allow for a unique build.

One bug I recently noticed is that when a Sorceress enchants herself, Fire Mastery is applied twice when using a ranged weapon (but unfortunately the damage is also divided by 3). Another thing is that fire damage from gear is also increased by Fire Mastery (I assume this wasn't intended). As usual, the character screen and skill descriptions are lying about much of it.
These particular bugs are irrelevant of course, since they'll never net you enough damage to be effective on Hell, but they give me hope that there's a useful bug hiding somewhere, like leech working with Blizzard or something. :D

(It's funny (to me) that in 1.14, the description (of Enchant) says that its damage is divided by 3 for ranged weapons, even though it is not. While in 1.00, it is divided by 3, even though the description doesn't mention it. Also, in 1.14 it's actually the melee damage where Fire Mastery is applied twice, while in 1.00 it's the ranged damage. And in 1.00, Fire Mastery doesn't apply at all when enchanting allies, but this was already known I believe. Every attempt at fixing a bug seems to have caused five new ones. :p)


@TedDeeBoy
A little extra on Defense. I did a (bit of a lazy) test:
As a level 72 Barbarian with Shout(20) and Iron Skin(20), I reached 8710 defense (without a shield, and with 45 dexterity). I let a Doom Knight on Hell (level 74) attack me 100 times, and I was hit 16 times.
If you run the numbers through the formula (including the *4 multiplier bug), you'd end up with a ~13.79% chance to be hit.
Since I'm too impatient to let a Doom Knight attack me a million times, I'm just gonna assume that the 16/100 checks out with ~13/100, and my conclusion in turn is that defense rating shown in the character screen is accurate. (Premature conclusion, but for now I'll take it.)

The character screen however showed only 3% chance to be hit: When I ran the numbers through the formula without the *4 multiplier bug, the result was ~3.79% chance to be hit. So, obviously, the character screen doesn't include the *4 multiplier bug. (And who knows what base attack rating it even uses.) My conclusion is that this number is totally useless. :p
(I used the attack rating of a Doom Knight. Doesn't really matter, though.)

As Sorceress with the same gear and stats, and with active Shiver Armor(20), my defense reached 3698. In that case, the chance to be hit would be ~27.06%. Pretty much twice as high as the Barbarian with 8710 defense.

With 300 defense, the chance to be hit would be ~82.06%.
With 1000 defense, the chance to be hit would be ~57.84%.

Anyway, those are just a few examples. There are important variables to consider during gameplay, like: Base attack rating of the attack, mlvl, clvl, and champions, elites and minions may get an additional AR multiplier(?).
To add to what Grape said.

I've also always enjoyed reading about game mechanics, especially those which are broken.
Does blizzard do physical dmg in 1.07? Maybe it leeches in there, like lightning fury does
Thanks again for the great research. What armours with base def rating did you use for the test? It looks like a titan iron barb would will a good build if you can compensate for walking everywhere.
I checked -- turns out it was 1.07 that removed it (1.06 still has the physical damage portion). Good thinking, but it seems we're out of luck. Lightning Fury 2.0 would've been good :p
(Do you happen to know if the LF bug from 1.07 also applies to 1.00-1.06?)

Probably a bit too hopeful, but I'll definitely be going through the Lightning and Poison skills of Amazon at some point.
Since Freezing Arrow adds the base arrow damage to the entire splash radius (1.00-1.08), kind of similar to LF from 1.07, there's a chance that there are more skills with a similar bug. (Chance is slim, but worth investigating in my opinion :D)



Not sure if I'm correctly understanding the question, but base defense is always (max+1) when +%defense spawns, so there isn't actually a "base roll" at all.
Here's how my items ended up after spawning them with the Holy prefix (+81-99%):
Ornate Plate(879), Grim Helm(238), War Gauntlets(101) and War Boots(103). I could've cheated perfect +99% rolls, but I think having Holy on all four pieces is already lucky enough :p (The idea was to simulate something realistic.)

You make a good point though; walking. It's one of the reasons that makes investing in defense rating not look so appealing to me. However, defense is in full effect while whirlwinding, so if you play well, you should be able to avoid autohits.
dunno never tried zon pre-1.07. I just call those "cow mules"

edit: I guess they are actually RoF mules or "maggot mules" in classic
Actually it wasn't a bug originally. Before 1.07 you only had white/superior javelins, and no synergies. Blizzard made LF treat damage sources the same way for each bolt, so physical/elemental damage carried. This balanced the skill somewhat. In 1.07 they introduced much more powerful (and magical) javelins, which unintentionally made LF insanely good. They eliminated this "feature" in 1.08, not realizing that they butchered the skill for post-lod classic players. (who don't have Titans--try making a 1.10+ classic LF zon :p)
I do hate to be skeptical, but do you have a source? I searched the "Tapatalk LL" and found nothing on it. (Not of a bug, nor a feature.)
Here's what the patch notes from 1.08 say: "Fixed the bug that added javelin damage to Lightning Fury, and made the graphics simpler for the lightning."

I checked both 1.00 and 1.06 in-game, and the bolts from LF definitely do not carry anything. (Only the actual javelin does.)

Your theory would make total sense, but it doesn't seem to check out anywhere. :oops:



Edit: Removed some stuff, I see what went wrong now. There was a change in Missiles.txt:

In 1.00-1.06 in Missiles.txt, they had declared the damage for the bolts directly in the FuryLightning entry. In 1.07, they removed the damage from this entry, and in stead pointed to Skill 35 (which is Lightning Fury in skills.txt) to fetch damage numbers. But because the Lightning Fury entry in skills.txt has SrcDam 2 (which means 100% source damage), the bolts would now copy the lightning damage as well as the source damage (javelin).

In 1.08 they changed the SrcDam colum in Missiles.txt (for FuryLightning) from a 0 to a -1. I think we can safely assume that this tells the game that it should ignore the source damage column when it fetches damage numbers from skills.txt.

PoisonJavCloud and PlagueJavCloud are the only other missiles that have this column set to -1.
So, it was just a small goof: Whoever changed Missiles.txt in 1.07, forgot to change a 0 to a -1.

1.07 is definitely the only patch with the broken Lightning Fury.
Anyone have any idea what I can go with all these Goldskins? (why can't I hold all these goldskins?) I keep finding them from the cow king but I often don't have room to keep them around for more than a few sessions of cow king runs. I sometimes will use them on a barb early on, but beyond that, they're not that great.
View attachment 9921

Also, found a pretty good pike, so I will start a pike barb soon.

View attachment 9922
@TedDeeBoy
I made a few quick reference tables that give a better idea of how defense affects chance to be hit, specifically for Hell Act 4 (forgot to add the small demons/maggots that can be spawned):

link:
You can see at the top what values for defense rating and clvl were used to create the tables. The last table is against Champions, which apparently get 200% attack rating (found this info in a post from 2000).
Uniques only get a bonus to attack rating if they spawn with certain affixes, but I don't know if these bonuses sum with, or multiply each other. (Or maybe only one bonus is used? Who knows.)

Anyway, I think that the first and third tables, when compared, show that stacking defense definitely pays off.

In case you wanted to get a better idea, you can copy/download the spreadsheet. All you have to do is edit the values for clvl and defense rating, and optionally bonus percent.
Nice dual leech tooth pick. Definitely need to start a barb to that pointy stick. You can even use a tarn and all out gold find gear eventually and still have leech coverred

generally Goldskin is not that to good to keep many, you could accumulate rare full plates if desired and have a chance of other rares.



That is a work of art and science combo Fruit. Thank-you so much. A great additional resource for the 1.00 player community. I will need to get the cyber dust of that OP I found and level my Barb so I have enough str put it on or build a new one with max WW, Mastery, BO, 13 NR, some into Inc Speed and rest into Shout and Iron Skin, str 170 vita 250, some into dex or gear and AR and rest into vita probably
Haha -- not sure that level of praise is all that appropriate, but i'll take it anyway. :p Cheers!
As for strength, I was actually looking into something related to it the other day.
Specifically, I was looking at two things:
  • The relationship between base weapon damage and requirements.
    • For example a Grim Scythe has very high damage, but it requires 140/140 (strength/dexterity). Then there's a Yari that doesn't have very high damage, but requires no dexterity at all. So how will damage look if you use the Yari and spend those saved points (that would otherwise go into dexterity) on strength?
  • The actualdamage that weapons/Whirlwind deal(s).
    • What am I talking about? Well, for example the description of a Bec-de-Corbin will say 24-77 damage, which is correct, but these are not the values used to calculate damage whenever +%damage spawns. In the case of a Bec-de-Corbin, it is actually (24+1) and (67+1) that are used for +%damage. That difference of 5 average base damage ends up being very big if you factor in strength and skill multiplications.
    • Most weapons incorrectly display damage in their description, and the character screen often incorrectly displays damage per hit.
Anyway, here are 3 quick examples/tables that hopefully sketch you an idea:


awd = average weapon damage
ahit = average damage per hit
rt = required (stat points) total

awd is the average weapon damage after +%damage from the weapon, but before strength and skill multiplication.
ahit is the average damage of a single hit with Whirlwind.
rt is the total stat point requirement of the weapon minus the stats points you start with (30 strength and 20 dexterity).

For the tables above, both Whirlwind and Mastery were set to lvl20, and +%damage was set to a (perfect) 198.

The stat points cell means the total number of attribute points spent:
The weapons will basically take enough points from this value to meet its dexterity requirement, and then put the rest into strength to increase their damage.

Why these weapons? Well, these are all the weapons in 1.00 with a range adder of 4. (Except for the Partizan, which has one of 3, but I felt it needed to be included because of its massive damage.)


- As you can see, the average weapon damage of a Grim Scythe is ~1.19 times as high as that of a Pike, but after 230 stat points spent, the average damage per hit with a GS is actually only ~1.02 times as high, because it needs you to put so many points into dexterity.
- The Yari, even though it has a lower average weapon damage than a Pike, actually does more damage after 230 points spent.
- The Partizan has fantastic damage, since it requires no dexterity, besides having high base damage. Unfortunately (and the reason it's cut off from the rest) it has shorter range than the other weapons listed.

The Partizan seems to be the king of damage, but not of range. For AoE, I would probably suggest a Bec-de-Corbin.
Of course a weapon like the Grim Scythe will boost your defense and attack rating as you put points into dexterity, so perhaps it is not such a bad pick after all?

The Pike is obviously also more than sufficient, and is significantly easier to obtain due to that Cow King stuff.


In case anyone is interested to have a closer look at the relationship between variables, feel free to copy/download the spreadsheet.
How bad is the shorter range for WW?

I think it might actually be advantageous in areas like RoF when there are hordes of maggots... at least until you're guaranteed 1-hit KOs. I know before I got a higher dmg weapon (and a higher chance to hit) that it felt really slow to kill maggots on p8 because of the huge selection of monsters that WW would rotate hits between. It was quite annoying. I suppose long-term higher range is impossible to beat because you'll get more dps from just landing more hits
Not terrible, but also not inconsiderable:


yellow = 4 (Pike for example)
green = 3 (Partizan for example)

The search radius of Whirlwind covers 181 tiles, a Pike would cover 105 (~58%) of those, while a Partizan would cover 85 (~47%).
Essentially, this means efficiency drops by ~19%.
But you can work around the problem to some degree, with diagonal whirls for example, so in practise it may not be as bad as these "stats".

You could definitely expect to hit less (against larger groups), but if the change would make you go from 2hit kills to 1hit kills, I'm gonna guess it's going to be worth it.



Edit: I'm confused after re-reading your post. Were you asking if having a shorter range could actually be better than a longer one? Because that is not how it works (unfortunately).
Yes that's what I was thinking just so that you're not likely to hit something (that takes 2 hits to die) and then leave it around for awhile because there are too many other things being hit as well
It looks a little bit like this:

If not frame #4, do nothing.
If frame #4, scan for targets within 5 radius, and:
1) Pick a target.
2) Attack target.
3) Pick a target.
4) Attack target.

Now the thing with the Whirlwind (search) function is that it doesn't consider your melee range at all, and step 2 and step 4 are not actually part of Whirlwind.

Imagine standing still, holding shift, and then clicking a target that's outside of your melee range. What will happen? You will just swing the air, with absolutely no chance of hitting. (But you did select the target!) The exact same thing happens with Whirlwind.

This is why the radius bugs for Whirlwind in 1.00-1.06 (with the exception of 1.04) are such a bummer: Whirlwind often picks targets that are out of your melee range, so you keep "swinging the air".
Reducing your melee range will not help this at all, in fact it will make it worse.


Feel free to PM me here or on Discord if something isn't clear.


Edit: I see you've already replied, but since I've already made it now, I'll just add this image:


Looking at their feet:
You can tell that the cow that's swinging at me is within my melee range. The cow to the left is within the search radius of Whirlwind, but not within my melee range. So what can happen now is that Whirlwind picks the target on the left, and I'll "swing the air", even though the cow next to me is right there within melee range. Even an attack rating of a million wouldn't fix the problem. :(

This example is with a Martel de Fer.
oh ok I understand.
View attachment 9951
tfw you grind cow king for hours and get nothing and then suddenly you get gold.

Also, I will say that managing inventory during cow king runs has gotten ridiculous. Trying to keep uniques around to force failed unique rares plus keeping all the good rares around has proven difficult. I don't want to mule off the items because it will reset the map. Kinda don't like giving up a good map.

e/ also i think this time around i will try a few different builds. obviously my cheese-o-mancer is present, and i'm planning a pike barb, but maybe for sorc i will try something other than static/orb and i'll try a different paladin build. still really dreading the amazon run though.
@Barl
Absurdly good boots, grats on those!
I have the same problem with maps, since i don't use gomule/atma (either). But ultimately it's not too bad imo, since it essentially forces you to change things up, in stead of running a map until you get absolutely sick of it. At least, that's how it feels to me. :D

As for builds/skills, spoilered up to avoid being spammy:
Thorns + Conversion used to be a thing. Conversion has a significantly higher chance of succeeding relative to 1.14 (42% vs 63% at lvl20), and the duration is much longer (3.5 minutes at slvl20, while in 1.14 it's 16 seconds at all levels).

Hammerdin is an option, but perhaps by "different build" you meant a build other than hammerdin. :p
(Might and Concentration work with Blessed Hammer, it just won't show in the character screen.)

Vengeance is also an option for a Paladin. It's bugged to add the skill damage twice:
The skill will use your physical weapon damage (excluding strength) and add damage equal to the listed percentage for each element. So at slvl14 (+100%), the skill will add 100% of your weapon damage as fire damage, 100% of your weapon damage as lightning damage, and 100% of your weapon damage as cold damage.
The bug is that these 3 damage portions are added twice: Even an averagely rolled Battle Hammer could easily deal >1000 damage per hit.
Note that this skill does not convert any physical damage (so you still deal your regular attack damage as well, with which leech will work). Elemental damage from your gear is not increased by Vengeance.

Conviction works differently compared to later patches: It lowers a target resistance by the listed percentage of that target resistance. So when a monster has 0 lightning resistance, Conviction will not do anything. (I hope this is not too vague?)

As for Sorceress -- Blaze and Inferno were actually used skills back then. :eek: (Blaze was probably used in combination with SF.)
Inferno cast speed is static, and is not affected by any speed modifiers: FCR or IAS won't increase speed, but being chilled or affected by Holy Freeze also will not decrease speed.

Amazons.. well, it really depends on the skills you plan to use. Bowazons are in a bad spot because +%damage on bows only adds 1-1 damage.
Guided Arrow (at all levels) actually reduces total bow damage by 5%.
Strafe multiplies total bow damage by the listed amount, which is great, but of course it will multiply a low bow damage in any case.
Fend suffers from the "miss first = miss all" bug, like Zeal does.
Jab might actually work with a good Pike. Like Inferno (see above), the speed is static.
Lightning Fury was used in earlier patches, but you may still want to have a Spear in your inventory to deal with high lightning resistance. (Unfortunately no quick-switch.)

Twitchthroe only adds 1 IAS. Although there are cases where that single point is enough for you to hit the next breakpoint, usually the armor won't increase your attack speed.

Sorry if I'm just repeating common knowledge, I don't really know what everyone around here knows.
I don't think many people know those facts. I may have only seen 1-2 of them before
 

Albatross

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Can anyone explain precisely how bonefarming works? I can't really get it to reliably work. I've heard various things like, fill the screen with bone walls, walk several screens away and wait. Or, walk several screens away and then come back and kill them with bone spear, etc.
edit: treeharl had apparently uploaded a youtube video early 2017 where he shows it off.
he mentioned that 1) magic find doesn't work and 2) ilvl = 56.
imo the magic find thing would still have to be explored. rng is rng after all.
i hadn't even thought of checking the ilvl, but this could give us clues as to what's happening.
edit: all my items so far are ilvl 57, regardless of which act (on Hell) i spawned the bonewalls in, which implies that the bonewalls use their own mlvl. i assume treeharl made a typo when he wrote 56.

my lightweight testing didn't give me the impression that it matters how the walls are destroyed/killed.
i don't know what happens technically, but i believe it to be something along the lines of:
- bone wall is cast
- bone wall is created, treasureclass is fetched and returns 0, timer starts
- player(s) move far enough away from the area, area is compressed and stored in memory
- player moves close enough, area is retrieved and decompressed, bonewall is "restored", treasureclass is set, timer starts (from the top, because time_left isn't stored apparently)

(i read that town portals keep areas alive, as in keep areas from being compressed, so if that's true you'll have to use waypoints, or walk.)

so when treasureclass is set when bonewall is being "re-created", clearly something is going wrong. i do wonder what happens. does it get assigned the treasureclass of the nearest monster? if there is no monsters near (enough), does it grab a default value? perhaps the first entry from treasureclass.txt of the appropriate difficulty?

anyway, in practise, as in if you want to see it in action, the easiest way is: take a waypoint where there are usually no enemies (so they don't attack/destroy the walls), cast a bunch of walls, go to town. return, and wait out the timer or destroy them.
sewers level 2 is perhaps the best/safest option. durance of hate 2 is probably also good, perhaps catacombs level 2. etc.

imo, rather than hoping to get good loot, i'd figure out how the walls fetch the treasureclass. i feel sure that it fetches a treasureclass from the current difficulty, and i highly doubt it's "just random".
i read a claim that bonewall always fetches a treasureclass from act 4 when re-created, but i have no clue if it's true.
to me it wouldn't really be interesting (to use for loot) unless we'd know how the treasureclass is fetched. right now it's so random that i'd rather spend my time gathering gold and gambling stuff.

it would also be valuable to know if an entire wall is treated as only one monster, or if each segment has a chance to drop loot (probably the former). what would be even more interesting is if it matters if 1) more players affect the nodrop chance and 2) if destroying the walls with magic find would affect the quality.

i'm pretty sure you can get any kind of quality (regular, magic, set, rare, unique), though i have not tested enough to confirm that.
i can confirm that bonewalls can drop all the way up to Ornate Plate (the highest level base).


edit: there may need to be a short time after leaving an area for it to be compressed and thus for the bonewall to lose its initial 0 treasureclass. not sure.

edit: also, just a note, once a certain threshold of sprites (i guess) has been reached, you will no longer be able to interact with some objects. so if you keep casting bonewalls near a waypoint, eventually you won't be able to use the waypoint anymore. so either use a few different locations, or make a new game. :p

edit: forgot to mention that subsequent bonewalls seem likely to drop the same stuff as bonewalls before it. so if your first walls drop an emerald and a spear or something, it's likely that they will keep dropping. this could support the "bonewall uses treasureclass of nearby entity".
this is after 3 "batches" of bonewalls:


this isn't enough to draw a solid conclusion, but it seems to even repeat the quality, and whether or not it rolls exceptional. imagine finding a Silks of the Victor, and then another, and another, and another.....
or better yet, the same sick rare for all your toons!

the thing seems to be strictly seeded. there's a good chance it's seeded in a very simple way, but not necessarily a predictable one. possibly similar to how the cow king thing works, or racking in 1.07.



sorry for the wall (again). should probably also have used capital letters and such. Oh well. :oops:
lots of good stuff above. i can't begin to understand all of the datamining going on with 1.00

anyway, i found this,
View attachment 10038

and since i routinely judge pikes based on them being 100+ damage (and other mods), maybe i should make a zealer/other skill paladin? there are many options since i'll have loads of skill points. zeal/smite/conversion/thorns? or maybe something else.
Is there something different about socketing white items brought forward from 1.00? I bought some white flails from Hratli in 1.00 and brought them forward to 1.14d (via 1.07, of course). They are ilvl 28, so they should be able to get up to 4 sockets, but 3 attempts at the cube recipe all yielded only one socket. It's possible this is just bad luck but before I wasted any more materials that could be used for crafting caster amulets I thought I'd ask and see if there was something else going on. I suppose I could settle the issue by taking one to Larzuk but I'd prefer not to waste that on a base item that's so easy to acquire more of.
I'm in the process of renovating my new home and will move soon. I'll edit my guides to comply with revised forum rules at a later date. I've been so busy that I just noticed the revision.
if you plan on changing any content, i'll suggest a correction, and a note on gambling:

there was no such thing as magic level until 1.07. the +2 that amulets get is actually global, it applies to absolutely everything. (every item, every source.)
so if a monster with mlvl6 drops an item, then the "qlvl"=6+2. if a player of clvl38 shops staves at nightmare, qlvl=38+2. etc.

similarly, imbue ilvl=clvl+4, and then gets the +2 bonus. gamble ilvl=-5 +4, then +2. (again, not just amulets, everything gets this bonus.)

and a small note on gambling, i'm not sure if it's know, but: ilvl=clvl-RND(10)+4
what difference does it make? well, after the subtraction, if ilvl is <1, then ilvl=1. and then the +4.
so at the very minimum, ilvl=5, and therefore the minimum qlvl is 7. (so even at clvl1, qlvl is guaranteed to be high enough to spawn affixes of lvl 7.)


i realize my noname-self doesn't have a great amount of credibility, so if anyone could chime in to confirm? :p this forum is too good to house misinformation. right? B)

especially the global +2 i mentioned is easily confirmed. ilvl = clvl when you shop vendor items, so with an affix table handy, check out charsi her inventory. you'll find that her items can have affixes 2 levels above your clvl. (but keep in mind the ilvl caps on normal.)

the second one also isn't hard to test, but certainly more tedious: take a clvl 1 char and gamble some stuff, you would see that affixes up to alvl 7 can spawn at that clvl.



@Barl
vengeance might be fun :p i wouldn't touch zeal on hardcore myself. (perhaps with absurdly high AR.)


and in case you were still interested in bone farming, last week i did a bit more testing and know now exactly what walls can drop.
on nightmare and hell they use the same treasureclass, but because mlvl is 32 in nightmare and 57 in hell, there are a bunch of items that won't drop on nightmare. (which means they are more likely not to drop anything.) furthermore, a lot of affixes won't be able to spawn on nightmare.

i won't discuss Normal bone walls too much, since they're only mlvl 7: the game first picks a base item, and then compares the lvl of that base with mlvl+3, so the walls will drop nothing most of the time because 10 is often too low for the picked base. (and of course the affix pool is terrible as well.)


some factz and assumptionz:
- MF sometimes applies. unfortunately i don't know why it sometimes does (not). note that MF will only apply if you kill(destroy) the walls.
- walls can drop any quality, including rares and uniques.
- health of the segments scales with player number just like the health of normal monsters does. walls also have "standard" health regeneration (2).
- high poison and high cold resistance. 0 resistance to all other damage types.
- each segment has its own life, and its own regeneration. segments don't share damage. if one segment drops, they all drop, so AoE won't do you any good: focus fire on one segment. (or just let the timer expire, but then MF surely won't apply.)
- i'm pretty sure that 1 wall can only drop 1 item, regardless of how many segments the wall has.
- i'm pretty sure that the number of players in the game has an effect on the "nodrop" chance. and if that's true, it would be most efficient to farm at P5.

in single-player testing, it seemed that walls go "inactive" after about 4 seconds:
i would spawn walls in the cow level, take the red portal back to town, wait 5 seconds, and that would consistently do it. in multi-player it was less reliable, unfortunately.



anyway, it's not pretty, but here are two lists. at the top are the affixes that can not spawn on Hell due to the mlvl being too low. everything else can spawn.
below it are all the items that the walls can spawn on Hell. imo i would not bother farming on nightmare or normal.

and if you were wondering why the +2 skills affix isn't shown, well as you can see below, amulets can't drop at all, so those affixes are irrelevant.
also note that most items, even though they can't spawn a certain listed affix, can spawn higher versions of it. (for example a belt can't spawn 31-39 life, but it can spawn 41-59 life.)

Hell Bone Wall drops:



edit: WHOOPS, sorry for the wall. :-( it didn't seem like that much as i was typing it.
Thanks for the info. I did mess around with it a bit based on your previous info and had mild success. It didn't occur to me to try it in the cow level. I thought town portals mucked the whole thing up? Or is the red portal special in this way?
Right -- red portals don't keep areas active. In this regard, you can consider them to be more like any other entrance that swaps (map) layers, like going from City of the Damned to River of Flame, or from Lut Gholein to Sewers Level 1, etc. But of course they do share with town/player portals that you can't use them while hostile to another player, so I see why you thought what you did. :)
(I wonder now what rules would (not) apply to portals created by shrines.. :D)



And for the interested, while checking out the Bone Wall stuff I also I took a closer look at Magic Find, and learned that there are actually more "bad breakpoints" like the infamous 150/151 one. The following is specifically about Rare Exceptional items:



Lazily quoting myself to explain the tables/picture:
i'll try to explain what the stuff on the picture means:
the "bad" column means that your chance to find a rare exceptional is now lower than the "good" column.
the "global recovery" column means that if you reach that amount of MF, then you no longer have less chance to find a rare exceptional (compared to the "good" column) for every mlvl.

the "avoid" table on the left shows the MF values you should avoid if you want to be absolutely sure that you are not hurting your chances for rare exceptionals (from any monster).
there is no other bad_breakpoint again after 151, so if you reach at least 201 MF, then you are completely safe from further bad_breakpoints, and every bit of extra MF is good. :)



And then Blood Golem + Iron Maiden in 1.00-1.03. I will spoiler this up, because it's alotta text:
Most know how it works in later patches: Golem returns damage of (physical_damage*iron_maiden), and leeches a percentage based on the damage it dealt.
I'm not sure exactly what goes on in 1.04-1.06, as those patches have a bug that was fixed in 1.07 (according to the patch notes).

Anyway: In 1.00-1.03, this is not how it works. In fact, the amount leeched has absolutely nothing to do with damage dealt.



Firstly: Monsters, like players, have a default h2h (melee) physical damage of 1-2 that goes through the ToHit check (independently), using the attack rating of the attack that is used.
That means that if a monster uses an attack of 4-5 damage, the potential of the attack is actually 4-5 + 1-2.

The silly thing about it is that it also applies to ranged attacks (when the attackee is with melee_range of the attacker). The h2h damage is considered a melee attack, even if a ranged attack was used.

So if a Damned attacks you with his Lightning Ball attack while you stand within his melee_range, he will also attack you for 1-2 melee physical damage (using the attack rating of the Lightning Ball attack).
If the h2h damage hits, then everything that "returns", will go off: Thorns, Iron Maiden, Attacker Takes Damage, even Frozen Armor, etc.



Now for the Blood Golem leech:
- The life the Golem leeches is the listed percentage of the current life of the monster. So, yes, this scales with players. And yes, this can end up in the thousands of hitpoints per hit.
- The leeched life is not removed from the monster's life.
- This total amount is then split 30/70 (you/Golem). Any surplus will potentially go to the ally. Note that damage is subtracted before leeched life is added.


And this would be where the h2h thing comes in:
Let's say the Golem stands within melee range of a Damned: The Damned attacks the Golem with Lightning Ball, the 1-2 h2h damage is successful in the ToHit and thus hits the Golem. Now, first the Damned deals 1-2 damage to the Golem, then Iron Maiden will return damage based on the damage roll of 1-2, and then the Golem will leech life based on the current_life of the Damned.

Now if the Damned had rolled to have its maximum 639 life, on P8 that would be 5112, and a level 1 Golem would leech about 1580 life, significantly more than the damage the Damned would have caused.

- Obviously, the more life a monster has, the more life will be leeched, so Champions and Uniques usually mean god_mode.
- The h2h thing applies to all attacks, but not to spells (like the Shaman's fireball, or Diablo's hose).
- For melee attacks, the attack's damage and the h2h damage are applied in one hit, meaning the leech from the Golem will go off only once, not twice.



Additional facts:
- Damage dealt to the Golem is split 10/90 (you/Golem), but damage dealt to you is not transferred to the Golem.
- The Necromancer can not be killed by damage dealt to the Golem: If life<1, then life=1.
- The Golem should receive 25% of your healing, but in my testing it only seemed to apply to rejuvenation potions, and not to regular healing potions. Note that a Rejuvenation Potion heals the Golem based on your maximum life, while a Full Rejuvenation Potion will max out both you and the Golem.




Last but not least, an overflow bug (hey, what's new):
The total_life_leech is calculated by multiplying current_monster_life by the listed percentage, before dividing it by 100.
If the value exceeds 8388607 before the division, the value will wrap around, starting at -8388608. (In reality, the value that needs to be exceeded is 2147483647, since the game stores life/damage with a precision of 256.)

This means that the life leech will potentially "heal" you and the Golem by a huge negative amount (-83886).

At this point, the Golem will certainly be one-shot, while you will be left with life very far into the minus. I suppose the negative leech will not count as damage, but simply as -life gained, so it will not apply the (if life<1, then life=1).

Your life may seemingly wrap around (0-8192), but in reality your life may be many thousands into the minus, and any damage at this point will one-shot you. In my testing, healing at an NPC or leaving and re-joining a game would not fix this. Using a Full Rejuvenation Potion however, would. (I suppose the potion acts more like a modifier that directly sets current life/mana to the maximum.)

Note that subsequent hits that "add" -life will further reduce your life, and if your life gets below a certain value (I think -83885), your game will crash.



Normally, the above bug only applies to the following three monsters, because only their life can get high enough (>239674) for the leech to pass the threshold. What player numbers are safe depends on the level of your Golem, but you will be guaranteed safe from this bug for these monsters at the following player numbers:

Hephasto: P7 and lower
Diablo: P5 and lower
Izual: P4 and lower
Wow, all good info thanks!

Also weird aside, I was reading the lurker lounge archive and noticed a discussion that mentions iron golem and life tap combo instead of the well-known blood golem and iron maiden. (https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/thelurkerlounge/life-tap-thorns-question-t10966.html) this is not something i've heard of before.

I shopped a +3 life tap wand and I already had a lvl 2 iron golem (+1 from soj) and about lvl 8 golem mastery. While he's not a broken invincible tank like the blood golem is, he definitely stays alive for longer than i would think in the river of flame. Maybe with more points he'd be better? % damage returned from the golem's thorns aura caps out at about 400% and unfortunately life tap never goes above the starting 50%.
Yeah! That's an interesting topic. :)
I did briefly test Thorns + Life Tap a short while back, but it did not seem to work at all in 1.00.

It's definitely possible that things were changed between 1.00 and 1.05 with regards to damage (returned), and potentially healing off of it. Specifically 1.04 brought a few major "behind the scene" changes, where significant chunks of code were re-written. It was also this patch that changed how Blood Golem's leech worked. But it wasn't until 1.07 that some bug was fixed related to Blood Golem + Iron Maiden.

And we shouldn't forget that even then, Blizzard very much kept separate server and client versions. On that very forum you'll find a lot of talk about differences between single-player (or open bnet), and closed bnet. (But usually this was just because the server was updated before the client updates went live.)
So there is a chance that what Ohmn described (Thorns and Life Tap working together) was actually a (closed bnet) thing that never even applied to single-player.

At this point I don't know too much about 1.01-1.04, since I haven't played any of those versions yet.
Honestly, I'd love to cheese the game with Thorns, Life Tap and maybe Conversion or something :D



I assume that at this point you are not 100% sure if Life Tap + "Iron Golem Thorns" works together?
Keep in mind that Iron Golem will still leech normally if he deals damage with his attacks directly, so it's possible it was just that which was keeping him alive for longer.

Do share if you find anything else, we need more cheese-builds! >;D



Edit: Life Tap + "Iron Golem Thorns" isn't working in 1.00. Notice the lack of leech overlay graphic whenever he is slapped. :( And if the leech was working, my IG would last infinitely longer than he does right now.
If it works in any patch at all, my bet is 1.04.
Edit: Life Tap + "Iron Golem Thorns" isn't working in 1.04b.
Edit: Life Tap + "Iron Golem Thorns" isn't working in 1.03.

I honestly think people were just remembering incorrectly. To preface: There are a few functions related to damage/attacks that exist, but certain attack types don't call all of them. For example Thorns won't reflect bow/arrow damage because that attack type won't call the function that handles Thorns. Similarly, Thorns will not reflect Thorns damage because that type won't call the function that handles, well, itself. Life Tap happens to grouped with Iron Maiden and Thorns, so these will never call one of the others.
But after reading those claims, I thought maybe in an earlier patch it worked differently, or maybe there was a bug, or maybe 1.04 messed with functions or attack types. But after testing [the above patches], I'm skeptical. :p
re: remembering incorrectly
this was less than one year after release. i don't think people forget things that quickly! maybe there's more to it? but i'm not sure how to search tapatalk.
Well it's not uncommon for people to combine different memories to form a false one, but you do have a point. :>
I'm just having a hard time coming up with another angle. Perhaps I was stupid to test only Iron Golem + Life Tap in 1.03/1.04, maybe it was only Thorns + Life Tap that worked. But we don't really have much to go off of other than a few claims that [so far] haven't checked out. The patch notes say nothing that would help narrow it down, let alone confirm anything.

As for searching at Tapatalk, hover your cursor over the magnifying glass (top right, just to the left of the Register button), then the search bar should appear.
The most concrete stuff I've found on the matter came from Jarulf, and he simply explained [why] it doesn't work. And then there are those who said "it used to be possible", while I didn't find anyone saying that it is possible, so we really just have their memory of playing an older patch, which may not be right. :p
But yeah, some of them do seem pretty convinced..

Edit: My point with that last bit was that, if someone had said "hey I just tested it, and it works!", then I would feel differently about it, but I've only seen "it doesn't work" and "it used to work". :/
Wow guys, just hopping in to check how 1.00 land is in 2018. I'm deeply impressed by the amount of time and energy you guys put in. The quality of the information is amazing.
A question for fruit, when i played sorc in 1.00 the last breakpoint seemed to be extremely fast. I understand that the system of fcr was with points in 1.00. My question is was the last possible fcr point faster then 200fcr in 1.07 etc. Because it shure felt like it.
The system has never actually changed. The only difference between 1.00-1.06 and 1.07-1.14 is that they added the diminishing returns part, by which I'm referring to this: EFCR = [FCR x 120 / (FCR + 120)]

I suppose the main reason that they used to talk about "points" is because the underlying calculations weren't known to the majority of players. But another reason could be that it was just easy language, since FCR only came in 10 or 20 anyway. :) They talked about IAS the same way.

For example, for Sorceress in 1.00, the actual breakpoints are: 0, 8, 17, 28, 41, 56, 75, 100, 134, 181, 250
After that (367, 600), the animation speed essentially becomes so fast that the action doesn't happen anymore (so you will do the casting animation, but you won't actually cast anything.). Caps weren't implemented until 1.07. And at 1300 you would reach a 0-frame breakpoint, but I don't know what happens then. :p


Anyway, the maximum obtainable breakpoint for Sorceress is actually the same: In 1.07+ you need 200 FCR to reach the 7-frame breakpoint, while in 1.00-1.06 you only need 75 FCR to reach the 7-frame breakpoint (thus 8 points, in 1.00 language :p).
100 FCR isn't possible in an un-modded game, so you can't actually get any faster than you can in 1.07+. Unless there is some bug I don't know about. :D
https://www.diabloii.net/forums/threads/1-00-fcr-breakpoints.922343/ I actually mention it here, were im pretty sure it felt alot quicker then 200fcr in 1.10. The post actually started a few of you guys in here to start the 1.00 adventure lol. Anybody that can try with maximum fcr possible? Maybe it was all in my head^^ Or maybe it contributes a new fact. So you can get 20fcr shield 20 fcr from weapon ( or is maelstrom 30fcr ?) 30 x from jewelry and 20 from magefist. So thats 90 fcr right? and that's what i used. So hmm.

Thx for answering btw, your awsome!
I remember coming across that thread at one point, in fact it was probably when I was looking into FCR and such. I'll definitely be reading the full thing to see if there's some juicy 1.00 info that I've missed.
One of the things I still need to check out is "Coldworm farming". It's my kind of cheese. :cool:


I'm 99% positive on breakpoint-related stuff, as I didn't want to make any mistakes there. I'd rather not find out at clvl 80 that 20 of my FCR had actually been redundant all that time, you know? :>
Specifically, I recorded at 25 frames per second and played back the clips frame-by-frame, to verify tables/formulas. I double- and triple-checked a lot. 75 FCR on Sorceress is definitely a 7-frame cast.
Unfortunately you can't really verify my claims unless you're also willing to record, and play back frame-by-frame.

And yeah, 90 FCR should be the max for 1.00-1.06. Maelstrom is 20 FCR (everything is 10 or 20).
1.04 changed the descriptions on a few items (from Fast to Faster iirc), but not their values.

There is of course that chance that there's a bug where cast speed is sped up unintentionally, but I haven't read about anything like that.
I mean, you never know with Diablo.. perhaps you can somehow keep the FCR of an un-equipped item? :p



Edit: Finished reading the thread you linked, there's one thing I failed to understand:


Could you elaborate?
Sure sounds important.. :eek:
O my, that sounds terrible yeah. My memory is very efficient. What it doens't use/does anymore it forgets (add/adhd). So i'm unsure what exactly i was trying to say. But i was rushing characters. So i think what it means is that when your mules dont complete a certain quest it can bug your rusher. So that should be a very important thing.

I rushed alot of characters. With the sorc i would static diablo until 1 hp and then let the mules kill dia (in hell this takes time even with 1 hp ). I was trying to find out if dia cant drop what is already dropped ( what was on mules and in there stash ). Again i'm super efficient so my memory is clogged up with facts like "you now have kids and this means you need to check if you have enough diapers so you don't have to use towels like last time you forgot because your playing video games " I was trying to get some of the rare stuff like ume's lament.

In leveling the mules also discovered that when you let you mules leech in the coldworm lvl the xp gets divided between chars if they are in party. When you go through the portal with the char that is doing the killing the amount of xp it gets for the kills made by his firewalls increases a lot. So this means that if your rushing and you need 1 character leveled unparty the others. The bug that lets you farm happens when you kill off the maggots only and then when most died go to town. If the mules are to close to coldworm the bugging doesn't work. Some maggotlair 3 spawns are actually not capable because there is not enough distance possible.

I remember using a bug to block the maggots from getting to the my rusher character in the tunnel leading up to coldworm. It involved getting on mule to die and leave the corpse in blocking the maggots form getting further. This i found important because the maggots could overwhelm you and leave your items on the ground. And setting up a good maggot cheese takes time and i would want to be in there a few hours.

From the foggy depths of my memory i remember that the fastest possible way to get to hell and leveled up in 1.00 in your first playthrough was by teaming up a sorc and a nec and to have 6 mules in game. The longest and hardest part was getting to act 2 coldworm norm and get your sorc to lvl 18 for tele and then just push for hell. So maybe there should be a 3rd char that has the best skill to get to act 2 from scratch in a 8 players game? When you get the sorc and nec to lvl 6 your good to go to andy/maggot. Use golem and static then you can chain ce and lvl only the nec and sorc by not partying the other mules. I think you can then just power through the game with tele and static the bosses to 1 hp (while dying a lot ) and getting the mules in game at the right times to get them the q's. Get to hell maggots and use the coldworm cheese until your nec is around 70. From this point i would get to hell and with my sorc i would tele to the choas sanctuary then make sure i kill at least 1 demon then get the nec to CE the entire Choas sanctuary in no time. I think in this way you can get to 86 extremely fast then it slows down (udars only good source from this point ) What are your fastest ways to get leveled in 1.00?.
Is it just me or is lightning resistance much more common of a modifier on rare items? That and the fact that 40-49 lightning resistance can spawn on helms and armor are interesting. I have often thought that lightning resistance was given a slant in favor of finding because lightning damage from many enemies is the most deadly. lightning enchanted boss? could be death very quickly for a lot of characters. Multishot lightning enchanted? very very dangerous. So what to do? just make it much much more likely a player will have lightning resistance.

I can't recall if I found this theory elsewhere but this is my gut feeling.
NM meph dropped me this pike, had tanner gorerod in stash.



Is it any good with the monsters flee? Has huge damage
Generally, flee is bad, but in this case, I doubt they'll survive long enough to do so.
 
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Albatross

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Ouch, that's a nasty pick. It's a bit of a shame it rolled Flee, but like helvete said, the monsters it works on at all typically won't last too long anyway.
For me that would basically be a reason to start a Barbarian, if I didn't have one already. :>
Agree with @helvete, Flee is annoying but should be counteracted somewhat by using Iceblink on the Barb. I have not tested this to see if hit freezes target overrides flee though. The damage is tasty and you should get it close to 1K max per hit on WW after maxing all skills. Good work @Tatterson.
Does anyone have info on why the rushing bug happens? I had a tcpip game open rushing my other 7 characters, didn't have durance level 2 waypoint so I went to a singleplayer game and got reset from Lord to just normal. I still have all normal quests completed, even a4 q3 but still cant access nm. Do I need to kill diablo?

Someone mentioned that Diablo quest can drop +2 skill amulets somewhere in this thread, but I think they said its not sustainable to run him. Can you not open a tcpip game with a character that has completed the quest, and go kill diablo with a character that hasnt? That way the killer cant complete the quest and still should get the quest drops.
Made a good point there with Freezes Target. I would guess that both get applied since they are completely different effects, but the freeze should make sure that the target can't run away. But if freeze wears off before Flee, perhaps they immediately start running? I've put it on my todo list to check it out. :p

Note that the character screen is totally off on damage for a Barbarian that uses a Mastery: The character screen adds the damage bonus from Mastery to those from strength and attack skills, but in reality the bonus from Mastery is a separate multiplier -- you get an absurdly big damage boost from every skill point in Mastery.
I also read that the chance to deal a critical hit with a Mastery is (slvl*2)%, but I haven't it yet verified myself. From memory playing Barbarian, i assume it's correct.

Btw, I do believe that Hit Blinds Target overwrites Flee. Not sure, though. Will check it out. :>




Edit: Ah, so you left the game before completing the quest. I wonder if that is the bug? As if the character assumes the "game's" state on the quest is his/hers.
I've been trying to replicate the bug by killing Diablo (outside party, inside party with no rushee nearby, etc), but so far it hasn't worked. Maybe I just had the wrong idea of what the cause might be.
Hopefully if you complete the quest now for the rushees, his quest will be fixed.
If you have any more details to share, please do!


Boss drops work quite differently in earlier versions, you can't repeat them like you can now.
I think Izual, The Summoner and Blood Raven also have boss drops, but I don't know if those are any good, or if they can drop their boss drop more than once.
Anyway, quoting myself on the boss drop thing:

  • Act bosses have a bonus (quest) drop, which is dropped alongside their regular drop if killing them completes the quest for a character. However, this happens only when the killing blow was dealt by a character who had not completed the quest yet.
  • Andariel her quest drop is 3 gems. Almost entirely useless.
  • Duriel, Mephisto and Diablo their quest drop is a unique/rare item.
  • Andariel, Duriel and Mephisto will drop only one "set" of their quest drop, regardless of how many characters are completing the quest.
  • Diablo however will drop a set of his quest drop per character that completes the quest. This means that if 7 characters that have not completed the quest yet are in town, and are all partied to an 8th character that kills Diablo to complete the quest, then 8 rare/unique items will be dropped by Diablo.

And to add to that (see the last bit):
Monsters that kill themselves by hitting a Bone Wall/Prison while cursed with Iron Maiden, will not grant experience. Magic find also will not apply. If a boss is killed this way, it will not drop its quest drop.
Not sure why people don't like flee on WW barb weapon. You don't want to kill anything but champions / minions anyway. :cool:
Minions are whimps too, though. :cool: (Flee affects minions.)


As for (some of the) stuff mentioned earlier, I took a quick look at them:
  • Freezes Target and Flee are both applied simultaneously, but since Flee lasts such a short time, you can expect it to have worn off before the target thaws. Thus, FT practically "overwrites" Flee. (Smite also applies these, as well as HBT -- FT can be used to nullify the knockback from Smite.)
  • Hit Blinds Target overwrites Flee, so this is a straight nullification. HBT is always applied by successful melee hits, and so is FT. (Flee probably is too? I haven't checked.)
  • Barbarian Masteries indeed give 2% chance per slvl to deal a critical strike. Deadly Strike can potentially quadruple damage if pared with Mastery.
  • Blood Raven seems to be the sole exception to "magic find does not apply to unique monsters". She seems to be treated as a regular monster in that regard. This probably doesn't yet make her interesting to run, though. :p Izual and The Summoner seem to drop only Magic items, but since I had already completed the quests I don't know if they drop any differently when you kill them the first time.
Some other misc stuff:
  • Leap attack is bugged to check for resistances twice. So if you roll for 100 physical damage, but an enemy has 50 physical resistance, you end up dealing only 25 damage because it gets halved twice. This also applies to elemental damage. And just to mention it, Leap Attack is not a "ranged attack", even though some guides say it -- but it is true that it does not check for Thorns, Iron Maiden, Life Tap, and also does not apply stuff like Flee, HBT or FT.
  • The resistance columns in monstats.txt wrap around 0-255, so Andariel who should have -50 fire resistance on all difficulties, actually has 206 fire resistance. Luckily this gets capped to 75. This also applies to -50 poison resistance for The Smith (all difficulties) and -50 poison resistance for Hephasto (normal and nightmare). This was fixed in 1.04 by having the colums wrap around -128-127. (This was later changed to a larger range, I'd guess in 1.09 or 1.10.)
  • Most of you probably already know that the blocking animation doesn't play when blocking melee attacks, or missile attacks that would deal less than or equal to 1/12 of your maximum health in physical damage, but it turns out that this is true for monsters as well. So a Carver for example will block your melee attacks, but no animation will be played. This makes me think it was never a feature to begin with, but just a nasty bug that wasn't fixed until 1.07.
  • Conviction does not apply its resistance de-buff to players -- I always figured it was just a character screen display bug, but now I've checked it out, and it simply does not do anything to players. It does work on monsters however, so the Paladin's Conviction is still a valid PvM skill.

Again I could not replicate the Diablo quest bug. :/ Will definitely give it another go when I have time, I really wanna know what that's about..




Edit: :D Just thought I'd edit this in real quick.
I was going through skills.txt to look up some value, and noticed that in the effect column of Valkyrie, it says:
"oooh scary valkyrie beast. Comes to fight for amazon"
Developer fun. :'D
[i only ask questions like this because i know there are members here who enjoy code-digging]

There exists a glitch in 1.00, and possibly further on into classic, where if you transmute a Horadric cube recipe with superfluous items in the cube, they disappear. e.g., you put 3 rings and a helm into the cube. THe game recognizes the 3 rings = 1 amulet recipe, and executes that. but the helm is apparently outright deleted? Anyone have any insight as to why or how or if the superfluous item has any bearing on anything? What if you put 3 rings and 3 amulets in at once and hit transmute? Is it based on position in the cube? Or the order in which you put them in chronologically? My brain is amazed by it.
Could be either of those or a ordered list of recipes to check for after counting how many items of each type are in there...

My guess is position or the order in which they are place in, like you suggest, though.
Ah, 1.00. Where I thought my Thorns Paladin with his Skull Gutter Broad Sword was the biggest badass in the land.

And like all self-proclaimed badasses, they eventually get knocked down a peg or two.
the cube function in 1.00-1.06 is very simple and small.

the function simply deletes everything that's in the cube, and it doesn't keep track of the order you put items into it. in fact, the cube never uses anything of the items that were put in the cube, not even their ilvl.

in the case of 3 rings + 3 amulets, it will always go for the "3 ring = amulet" recipe.
the reason is simple: when you click the transmute button, the cube function starts going through the list of recipes, comparing the contents of the cube with what a recipe demands. this always happens in the same order.
as soon as it sees a match, it deletes everything in the cube, and generates a new item defined by the recipe it found a match with.

(i take no credit for digging up the function, i can't read Assembly.)

it's a shame that the cube is so lackluster in the earlier patches, especially before it got the 6-p.skull recipe in 1.04.
luckily it got a massive overhaul in 1.07, and continued to evolve. it's one of the coolest things in the game imo. :p



and in case you were curious, i'll dump the list that the function goes through (from top to bottom). i copied it from my notes, so it's a bit messy, sorry!

there used to be complaints about a bug where the 6p.skull recipe didn't work with swords, and as you can see in the list, the function will see a match for "6 gems + sword = socketed long sword" first, thus the contents of the cube are deleted, the socketed long sword is created, and the function ends, never even reaching the 6p.skull recipe to compare the contents with.

also note that in 1.00-1.03, all the recipes that generate a Magic item with non-randomized stats will not be saved properly, and are basically re-rolled when you exit the game you made the item in. the recipes that randomize the stats are fine, though.

  • Shaft of the Horadric Staff + Top of the Horadric Staff = Horadric Staff (ilvl=clvl+4)
  • Khalim's Flail + Khalim's Eye + Khalim's Brain + Khalim's Heart = Khalim's Will (ilvl=clvl+4)
  • Wirt's Leg + Book of Town Portal = Portal to the Secret Cow Level
  • 3 mana potions (any type) + 3 health potions (any type) + any gem = Full Rejuvenation Potion (1.00-1.03: ilvl=clvl+4, 1.04-1.06: ilvl=0)
  • 3 mana potions (any type) + 3 health potions (any type) = Rejuvenation Potion (1.00-1.03: ilvl=clvl+4, 1.04-1.06: ilvl=0)
  • 6 perfect gems (any type, except for Skull) + 1 Amulet (any quality) = Prismatic Amulet (ilvl=100)
  • 3 perfect gems (any type) + Magic item (any type) = Magic item of same type (ilvl=100)
  • any Ruby + 4 exploding potions + 1 ring (any quality) = Garnet Ring (ilvl=100)
  • any Sapphire + 4 Thawing potions + 1 Ring (any quality) = Cobolt Ring (ilvl=100)
  • 2 of any Topaz + 1 Ring (any quality ) = Coral Ring (ilvl=100)
  • any Emerald + 4 antidote potions + 1 ring (any quality) = Viridian ring (ilvl=100)
  • 1 axe (any type and quality) + 2 daggers (any type and quality) = Throwing Axe (ilvl=clvl+4)
  • 1 spear (any type and quality) + 1 Arrows = Javelin (ilvl=clvl+4)
  • 3 rings (any quality) = Magic Amulet (ilvl=⌊clvl*3/4⌋+3)
  • 3 amulets (any quality) = Magic Ring (ilvl=⌊clvl*3/4⌋+3)
  • 6 gems (any type and quality) + 1 sword (any type) = socketed Long Sword (ilvl=clvl+4)
  • 1 Small Shield (Magic or better) + 1 Spiked Club (any quality) + 2 skulls (any quality) = Small Shield of Spikes (ilvl=100)
  • 1.04-1.06: 1 sword (magical or better) + any ruby + 4 health potions (any type) = Long Sword of the Leech (ilvl=100)
  • Diamond (any quality) + 1 staff of any type and quality + 1 kriss (any type and quality) + 1 belt (any type and quality) = Savage Bardiche (ilvl=100)
  • 1.00-1.03?: 1 Strangling Gas Potion + 1 health potion (any type) = Antidote Potion (ilvl=clvl+4)
  • 2 Arrows = Bolts (ilvl=clvl+4)
  • 2 Bolts = Arrows (ilvl=clvl+4)
  • 3 gems (of same type and quality, except perfect) = gem of same type of one higher quality (1.00-1.03: ilvl=clvl+4, 1.04-1.06: ilvl=0)
  • 1.04-1.06: 6 perfect skulls + 1 rare item (any type) = 1 rare item of same type (ilvl=100)


and 2 small misc things i ran into (something related to gidbinn, and something related to an "off-map" area):
i was trying to reproduce a bug that i read about in the official patch notes, and even though i found nothing, i found:
  • if you don't talk to asheara after giving the gidbinn to ormus, the gidbinn-pedestal will not be lit in new games that you create. so, you can just click the pedestal again to spawn a free monster pack. the gidbinn will not again be dropped after you gave it to ormus however, so you can't farm rare rings this way (damnit).
  • the following may apply to more areas than the Flayer Jungle, but as i was teleporting towards the gidbinn-pedestal, i suddenly teleported "outside" the map, and there was a huge rectangle that was absolutely filled with flayer guys. there had even spawned a chest, Well and a Shrine. the mini-map gives you an idea of how far away i was from the "real map". unfortunately the area is not actually drawn on the map, so it doesn't show how enormous it was.



fyi i was investigating a bugfix from 1.04: "Fixed a bug that occasionally prevented the Golden Bird and Gidbinn quests from giving their rewards."
(but didn't find anything.)
Hm. I've never teleported to such an area. Is that a classic-only map bug?

Anyone else ever see this? I would have assumed some people have trying to get through A3 quickly (as I have many times) but I haven't seen these glitchy teleport areas other than in cellar tower, some tombs, RoF/CS, some A5 places from what I can recall from memory.
i have no clue myself, it's the first time i've seen this one.

the 1.04 patch notes say: "Removed "invisible islands" from the River of Flame, Tal Rasha's Tomb, Spider Forest, and Tower Cellar, preventing Barbarians/Sorceresses from leaping/teleporting onto them."
perhaps this silly area i teleported into was also fixed with that patch? there were a million undocumented changes after all, so perhaps this was one of them. :>
Never seen that, and I have done my share of Flayer runs in 1.00. Neat find! :)

Edit:
I know the islands are in River of Flame in 1.00 (teleport down under / east of the sanctuary and you can get a free pass all the way to the seals) and of course in Viper tombs and Tal Rasha's tombs (which is still present in 1.14 or whatever the latest patch is now).
they're fun areas because of the lack of obstruction, there's pretty much nothing in-between you and a big gang of evil dudes. it can also happen in great marsh, i can inform thee, so probably in spider forest as well.



first time i saw a 1.00 barb leap "out of bounds" in RoF, my brain went "oh no, he's gonna die in the lava!"
awkward moment.
The real question is: Can unique monsters spawn there
They can, but it's not likely.

The file levels.txt has the colums "MonUMin" and "MinUMax", which define the minimum and maximum amount of random champion/unique packs that spawn in an area. Unfortunately, it's always 0-1, 1-1 or 1-2 (in 1.00-1.06), and in the case of Spider Forest, Great Marsh and Flayer Jungle, it's 1-2.
So even if Great Marsh spawns 2 packs, the chance is that both packs spawn outside of the funny area(s).
It's also possible that the density of a level is so low that no packs spawn at all. (Ever seen a Tower level without a pack? Even though they should always have 1.)

Some levels can/will generate map-segments that come with packs, though. For example Tristram, which is why you typically see 3-4 packs there, in stead of 1-2. (Super Unique monsters are also not included in the min-max for each level.)
I never really paid attention to it before, but I noticed now that Barracks is a map with a tendency to spawn multiple segments that come with a pack. It's great for XP at lower levels.

1.14 has separate min-max columns for Nightmare and Hell, which is why you see so many more more packs on those difficulties, in that patch. These columns don't exist yet in 1.09, so they were added quite late. (Perhaps 1.10? I have nothing installed between 1.09 and 1.14.)
This is one of the things I really miss in older patches. The amount of packs is so low that it's generally more efficient to roll a map that has a pack close to a waypoint, and then just kill the pack -> make a new game -> repeat.


As for XP.. I noticed that all the (Necromancer's) Golems grant it. :p And so do Decoy and Valkyrie. (This was fixed in 1.03.)
They actually give quite a bit of XP, but since it's just 1 monster at a time, it's probably not worth yours. :D
so much of what i have learned from playing 1.00 for so long is:

-lord de seis is the hardest boss for every class. harder than diablo.
-killing diablo requires either being a barb, or having a very thought out plan and good equipment. after that, it's just luck and following his pattern to damage him.
-grind cow king for weeks to get enough equipment to start your next character

edit: lord de seis is the only must-kill-to-advance monster/boss that does not have a melee attack. so that's why the blood golem/iron maiden/corpse explosion necro has such a hard time. (i'll often gather revives just for lord de seis) witch doctor endugu is also pretty scary in hell mode.
From my experience that's not really true. Killing Seis is easy with barbarian. I would say that Hephasto is the hardest one (for barb at least). Main problem is his damage and cursed+extra fast tags. Even having >2000 HP can't ensure that you will survive second hit (at that point you are already cursed).

Tips for barbarian killing Seis:
  • Remove all potions from belt (to lower possibility of game crashing)
  • If you had potions and Seis stole them from your belt - dropped on the ground - do not pick them up (they can become bugged and crash the game as well)
  • Don't engage Seis pack once in visual range - let them throw curses on you. Once initial curse barrage is over start killing the pack
  • Prioritize minions first (to lower the chance or iron maiden)
in case anyone felt like trying something other than a WW barb, Berserk happens to be bugged to allow for absurd tankiness.

the TLDR is that if you have ≥ 442 +% enhanced defense from skills, then Berserk will actually increase your defense.
what's even funnier, is that it does this every hit, exponentially increasing defense. (as long as the last length had not expired yet.)
note that the character screen stops updating after the first Berserk swing.

to give you an idea:
with 1000 defense from items, 90 dexterity, lvl 20 shout and lvl 20 iron skin, you'd have 6,234 defense.
attack once with berserk, your defense will shoot up to 21,369! the hit after that, 83,422!! then.. 337,840!!! then.... 1,380,953. :eek: this continues to escalate very rapidly.

i haven't tested yet to see what happens if you reach extreme Defense values, but it's possible there's an overflow bug eventually, if you keep on swinging. my bet is that it wraps around and becomes a super low value (thousands or even millions into the minus), but hopefully there was a cap implemented.
Finally, a use for this, the only ornate plate I have saved so far in this run of 1.00:
View attachment 10295

I only even consider saving -40 ones, 170 strength is awfully high.
 

Albatross

Active member
Mar 17, 2020
467
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Pretty sure I had def overflow (to a small positive value) in 1.07 after stacking 4 or 5 def shrines... I've posted about it before, somewhere.

Of course that's just the LCS so who knows if it's accurate or not. Anecdotally I *feel* as though it works but that might be based on decade-old thinking before I knew the LCS was garbage
i remember that post from going through the 07 thread, i had even put it in my 07 todo list to check it out. :p never got to it though, because i had already sunk down deeper all the way to 1.00, and i typically have rng related stuff at the bottom, especially shrines since they're such an inconsistent thing in actual gameplay.

but yeah, the LCS is just too unreliable. :/ especially for defense rating, attack rating and damage.
can't be sure about anything unless you test or/and read some code. damage is rarely a problem to test, but AR and DR are tedious because the most efficient way to test is standing still and have a monster swing at you a few hundred times, while noting the numbers. :mad:

but i'm still curious.
for one, i read that shrines actually "snapshot". so if you equip a martel de fer with 300 damage and use a combat shrine, and then switch to a hand axe, you will still have that snapshotted +damage from the martel on you.
though even if that's true, you typically use the highest damage weapon anyway.. :p
Hi all

Started time travelling again but in hc this time.

So as per helvetes excellent guide guide I started with 8 players any levelled barb and sorc side by side. They are all in nightmare now except for One of the party members that died at Diablo.

I have a few questions that I can’t seem to find the answer to.

1. What is the best course of action to level the lvl 1ns later on? Leech in hell on maggots? Does partying matter?

2. When rushing do I only need one of the rushees close when the kill occurs (like Diablo for ex). I know it’s different per quest (like none need to be present for Duriel)

Any help is much appreciated

Cheers
1. Hell river of flame maggots, party up the rushees you want to gain exp.

2. I think Andy and Diablo need the rushed character to be there. I think with mephisto I just walked in the portal with the rushees.
Ty m8

So all rushed chars need to be there or just one?

I guess I should also mention that I started this a while back and stopped so I don’t actually remember if I had all the guys there or not :)
only one, the rest will get the quest in town as long as they are partied.
for andariel and mephisto, the rushee can be anywhere in the level. but for diablo, radament and izual, the rushee has to be quite close to get the quest, about 2 to 3 screens is my guess.
for den of evil, one rushee has to deal the killing blow on 1 monster, that's all. the rushee can then go back to town while the rusher cleans the place. everyone partied in town will get the quest.
and if you plan to do the hellforge, it will drop gems for every partied member in the act that completes the quest. (pretty nice to get 7 or even 8 batches of gems at once, for Diamond shields or something.)

also be aware of some weird bug where the rusher can no longer enter nightmare / hell. it was mentioned a few pages back but i don't think anyone knows exactly what causes it.



looks like it's a double-edged thing :(
berserk penalizes you with -50 physical resistance, so if attacks do go through your Defense, you'll be hit very hard. they really didn't want us trying different builds huh. :p
Ty fruit :)

Yeah I read about that bug. I guess frequent backups can be important :).

I think I will skip hellforge as Hephasto is a scary guy :). Plus I plan to time travel in all the best patches and rune count are at 0 at the moment hehe.
Does the den of evil condition hold for other patches as well? I've often wondered why my rushees ion the den don't get the quest in 1.07 and probably later versions
yup, they never changed it.

funnily, any rushee that makes a kill in the den does not even have to be partied, nor does that rushee has to be in act 1.
so a rushee can potentially make the first kill in the den, then unparty and chill in act 4. if the rusher then clears the den, the rushee will complete the quest and can get the reward.
if there are more rushees that need the den quest, then they will have to be 1) partied to a rushee that made a kill in the den and 2) be in act 1. not that that's ever a problem, but it's good to know i guess. :D

it's always been standard routine for me in rushes to start off a difficulty with Den. open a TP in there, static the first monster to a sliver, make the kill with a rushee and put it back in town, then just clear the den with the rusher. i prefer to just get those quests out of the way.

in newer patches, the jade figurine is probably the most annoying quest to do in rushes.
while in older patches, the figurine will drop even if the killer has already completed the quest, which i'm sure you know. :) no clue in which patch they changed the jade figurine thing, but i wish they hadn't. :p
I still don't know how the jade figurine drop works. Maybe part of my confusion is based on differences between versions
Re gidbinn. So in 1.00 you can just open the fire and kill the monsters with the rusher? And the the others in town will also get the reward?
I finally got to do it! I've been taking my paladin through nightmare and when I got to Diablo, a fire shrine spawned right next to his spawn-pentagram!

View attachment 10386
View attachment 10387
View attachment 10388

A good healthy chunk of Diablo's HP gone in one single click! I drank a full rejuv right after clicking it so it was no problem. Feels so good!

By the way, this paladin has been quite a journey; I've been trying to keep a good balance of zeal/fanaticism/hammer/concentration and it's working out pretty well so far. I'v never done a hybrid melee/hammer pally, and certainly not in classic. But it's actually going pretty well.

The usual crowd control scheme is like this: cast several hammers, then switch to zeal and start hacking. the hammers will damage or kill some of the mob while you hit them, so it's like multitasking! I'm worried about my chance to hit as I enter hell, as the level disparity will become greater as I advance. That's why I put points into fanaticism, for the AR bonus, and a couple points into dex.

This is very much in line with a guide i found on the old lurker lounge which suggests the more common method of playing a paladin in classic was to diversify skill points among a great number of skills/auras.
So, this must be public knowledge by now, and I'm not sure when this stopped being the case, but, I decided to rush my paladin through hell with my bloodomancer, and I discovered that, you can just skip all of act 3. No gathering of body parts, nothing. Your rusher can go to the Durance of Hate waypoint and open a town portal, and the rushee can just enter it. I hope the following screenshot captures this: the only completed quest is the final one.

One of the unique council members on the Durance of Hate lvl 3 actually dropped the jade figurine, too! But I forgot to screenshot that.

View attachment 10413
I think this is common knowledge for most time travelers, because it wasn't changed until 1.10. So most veterans of pre-1.10 patches know it by now. :)
In 1.00-1.02 you do not even have to complete Q6 in act 3 to take the red portal to Act 4. (Although I wonder now if this may be the cause of that progression bug? Well, probably not..)

I think the figurine for Q1 keeps getting re-assigned, so if a monster spawns with the figurine but you swap to a different area before killing that monster, it will get re-assigned to another pack in the new area. I think they have slightly changed how this works in later patches, but I'm not sure. :D
What's nice (for boosts) in earlier patches with this quest is that the figurine will also drop if the killer has already completed the quest. In later patches it will only drop if the killer has not completed the quest yet, so you typically save this quest for much later.
Oh, that's quite interesting. I've been playing off and on since release and I never knew that. I never knew about rushing way back in the past so I guess I never discovered that. Cool to know, though!
I found a very cool cow level map where the red portal spawned nearly in the center of an intersection of four squares. i don't think i've seen this map before, in over a year of playing 1.00.

View attachment 10495
I've never seen a map like that in any version, afaik
what's everyone's experience with FE explosions? has anyone ever been insta-gibbed?

mainly out of curiosity i checked it out, and it actually seems to do 60-100% of (base) corpse life as 50% fire / 50% physical. so it's basically Corpse Explosion up to that point.
however it does not seem to scale with player number, and also does not scale with the health multiplier that unique bosses get.
the radius seems hardcoded: 4 in Normal, 5 in Nightmare, and 6 in Hell, but because of the star bug, the area of effect is actually fairly big.
i saw the exact same numbers in 1.07, so i suppose it took quite a while before blizzard touched/nerfed FE explosions.

anyway, despite not scaling, this would mean that it's fairly easy to get killed by FE, especially if it crits or while you are cursed.
some late-Hell enemies could even do over 1000 (non-crit) damage.
does that seem to match experiences? :D
I only died from it in norm (from council) while leveling a sorc. Can't remember what my resistances were but I had about 200 hp
View attachment 10687

Why is this item worth so much?

I have gathered that the game overprices certain items. Armor, especially ancient armor and full plate mail. The exceptional versions, which I think only appear as minimally, "superior" and never just "ornate plate", often go for the maximum 25,000 even before you repair them. war boots and war belts; death masks, winged helms, grand crowns, magic or rare, often when repaired sell for around 10,000 or 20,000.

This is much higher than any one pile of gold. Even with gold find gear, i do not think you will see piles of 21,489 gold every five minutes. That, and if you run Chaos Sanctuary, you find many of the above items but also war staves, war scepters, grim wands; which, with staffmods, also routinely sell for the max 25k without being repaired.

This makes gambling very lucrative if you only gamble for items with minimal cost. Gamble for items that cost less than 10,000. That way you get many more chances at rares, but every attempt is not very taxing on time, because to do one CS run and gain 170,000 gold, you then gain a fairly large number of attempts at rares and uniques.

Which brings me to this item, the Arctic Binding, part of the set, "Arctic Gear".

The base item, "light belt", costs:

View attachment 10688

just 3900 gold. So, when I'm in a penny-pinching gambling session, I will inevitably get one or two of these. And, it costs 3900 to gamble, and sells back for 25,000-- always. Just the full max always. No need to repair first. It's like a lottery ticket.

So, I have to ask: why is this item worth so much?

The game follows certain patterns for over-valuing items. Exceptional armor, helms, belt, and boots. Essentially, high dense items. Those, along with wands, scepters, staves, who have staffmods which the game also overvalues, especially with the exceptional versions, make up a class of items that are very good drops, and they happen very often in the chaos sanctuary, and hell cow levelruns.

The "light belt" item type does not usually ever reach max selling price. Even a rare example would not break 15,000.

So, why, exactly, does the set version sell for more than the unique and any other rare version?

It follows none of the usual overvaluing schemes of the game. No high defense, no staffmods, nothing really at all.
 

Albatross

Active member
Mar 17, 2020
467
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The short answer for the selling price on Arctic Binding is the +Defense stat.

The short explanation is: The last calculation to determine the "final base price" is a multiplication of (current_defense/minimum_defense). So in this case, 33 is divided by 3, and the result (11) is the multiplier. The selling price is then [final_base_price*[1024*current_durability / maximum_durability] / 4096]. Obviously gambled items are bought with full durability, so it immediately sells back for the (potentially capped) maximum, quite convenient indeed sir. For reference, if the durability was 26/28, it would no longer sell for the capped maximum of 25,000, but in stead for 24,941.
Pelta Lunata is a very similar case where the +40 Defense stat means that the mentioned multiplication is (44/4), which ends up spiking the cost.

The stat +Defense can not spawn at all on Magic and Rare items, so you will generally not see such spiked prices on them. These items can of course spawn high +% Defense, but for example [199%] of (3+1) is still only 7, so the multiplier would be (7/3). (In case you're wondering where the +1 comes from, that's just what happens when +% Defense spawns.)

The long answer would be.. quite long. :p There are a ton of variables and constants involved, and there are many different cases that are all handled slightly differently (Superior items, Gemmed items, Low Quality items, items with quantity, items with staffmods.) Some constants/variables are: the stats themselves, the values of those stats, base cost, defense, level of the staffmod(s), etc.

Generally speaking, items with high defense sell very well (especially when Superior or better), simply because Blizzard decided to make defense an expensive thing. :) (Funnily enough, in reality it's an extremely underpowered stat because of the 4*attack_rating bug.)


Edit: As for the abundance of Superior Exceptionals:
Because of how the magic find system works, any Exceptional item that is dropped by a level 48+ source will be at least Superior. Of course from a certain point in the game, all sources will be level 48+, so you will no longer see Exceptional items drop that are not at least Superior.
Ah. I guess I didn't need to write an essay then. But I had fun doing it! Thanks for your help as always, Fruit.
[Sorry for double posting]

Can anyone speak to how the repair-before-you-sell mechanic works? I was just about to gather some field data and try to figure it out by brute force but, I understand some members here are able to do some code-digging so maybe you can save me some time.

How much of a benefit do you gain, based on item type, rarity, and disparity of current durability vs. maximum durability?
The ratio is essentially 2 to 1.
I figured I'd take the Arctic Binding belt as an example:
  • dur = Current Durability.
  • sell = Selling Price.
  • rep = Repair Cost.
  • sinc = Selling Price increase after repairing.
  • rat = Ratio. Simply a division of sinc by rep.


So the ratio simply means that the selling price will go up by (about) double the repair cost (unless the selling cap prevents it of course). As the table shows, it's rarely exactly 2, this is because of rounding.

In case you or anyone else felt curious, the repair cost calculation is:
[[final_base_price / 8]*([1024*(maximum_durability - current_durability) / maximum_durability] / 1024) + 0.5]



Edit: Since I was playing, I figured I'd take some screenshots for an in-game example:



Per the "2 to 1" rule, you'd calculate: 1707 + 2*670 = 3047
You can see it's off by 4, caused by rounding in the calculations, but it still shows that what you can expect is:
new_selling_price = current_selling_price + 2*repair_cost

Thus, what you essentially make by repairing, is the repair cost itself. :cool:
About gold find, you can definitely get gold piles far in excess of the sell cap. I usually see around 12k to 55k from champions in hell river of flame, and I don't even use the patriarch, I use a pike. 70k should be quite reachable in a single pile.
Wow, I don't know how I never figured this out. I guess I'll forego the repairing in the future.

Thanks as always, Fruit, for doing what I'm either incapable of doing or too lazy to do. This thread is quickly becoming a pretty big resource on 1.00 and sometimes on classic in general. People like you, galaxy, helvete, treeharl, et al, have contributed so much. And I continue to do so little other than run cow king for hours (I tend to get stuck in a loop).

Thanks to everyone who has contributed here. This thread should be printed on fine paper and distributed in a leather-bound tome for future generations.

As for me, I continue to try to find glitches and interesting things, but I can only do so by repeated experimentation and not by code analysis so if I ever do find something, it will probably take a very long time.
I just remembered that I made some posts a year ago about cow king and I don't recall if anyone had similar experiences.

It is common knowledge in this version that once you have a map, the cow king will always have the same mods (and a set of drops) but I found a few rare exceptions where cow king has different mods (not sure if the drops were the same or not).

Yes this occurred on a map that I ran dozens or hundreds of times.
I have had the same experience, yes. Mostly, he will have the same mods on a given map but on some maps his mods may vary slightly: e.g., teleportation is replaced by cold enchanted sometimes (which is nice because teleportation is heckin AWFUL). I'll also reiterate (for the sake of visibility to new viewers) that it seems that in classic in general, where enemies die, how you move around the map, and other perhaps unknown factors, will influence item drops to a precise degree. That is to say, it is possible in 1.05 and prior, to get legit dupe rares with enough persistence (i've done it before).
ya I've had several dupe rare drops from cow king
Yea, this does not only affect the cow king but in fact every minion in the game.

Here's a post from 2009 I wrote when I first discovered it: https://www.diabloii.net/forums/threads/diablo-1-00-oddness.747133/. Since then I probably did 30000 Urdar runs and have gotten a ton of duplicate rare items. Champions have a 12.5% chance to drop rare items and you can manipulate it a great deal to get high end rare items.
A sum equal to the repair cost is what you miss out on by not repairing. If ancient armor sells for 10k before repairing, and you spend 4k repairing it, it then sells for 18k.

Straight sell: 10k
With repair: 18k - 4k = 14k
Difference: 18k - 14k = 4k = doubled your money.
Oh. I'm a little dense when dealing with numbers. Thanks for the clarification.
View attachment 10860

So, I've got a pretty bad problem. I was self-MPing using my necromancer to help my new sorc along, and when I went to log into my necro again, I found that he has been stripped of all titles and is stuck in normal. The last quest in act 4 is still marked as complete, and I'm not sure if killing Diablo again will afford me the ability to enter nightmare again.

I've had this happen before, during my last run of 1.00, and I never figured out how to get out of this situation. I think I just restored from a backup last time. But this time, I haven't backed up recently (oops) and I don't really want to go that far back. My last backup was over a month ago, and I've gone from about lvl 72~78 in that time.

Does anyone know how to fix this?
You have to use a character editor "Jamella" or a backup

When this happened to me I couldn't find a way to fix it either. Killing diablo again did nothing, even if the quest was open IIRC:
Yeah I posted about that bug a year ago. It's 100% permanent, because the flag is already set for the quest state so the character is stuck on normal or nightmare. Jamella can fix this by changing the max difficulty back, but doing so probably isn't allowed around here. So unless you've backed up the character, it's probably ruined. If you forward to the expansion it *might* fix it by giving you the portal to Act 5, but I've never tried.
I do have a backup that is quite old, so i'm not completely hosed. not sure if i want to back up or just delete yet. thanks to the both of you for the information. maybe i'll just keep the character around to run normal cow king, assuming the map is somewhat decent, since i can never reset it.

i'll decide that later. i'm busy with moving tomorrow and then saturday i'm driving for 12+ hours. so, this problem will be put on hold
Should be able to reset map with tcp/ip
Oh right! Thanks.

I've decided that in memory of this Horrible Event, that my current sorceress will remain in normal permanently. I will never kill Diablo. I will never venture to the cow level. I will attempt to level her up as far as practically possible without ever going to nightmare.

Her name is Flamer. This is a name chosen based on the following factors:

-Her fire-tree-focused build
-Her start as a twink character. (I started her with a SOJ and other unique items from level one.) You may know of the term 'twink' in the context of Diablo, but it also has a history in the LGBT community. This seemed like a perfect overlap of those two terms.
-My general disdain for slang/derogatory terms against LGBT people, and a desire to 'reclaim' the term.
@Barl
Sorry to hear about your Nec catching the bug. :(

Assuming you still have the bugged Nec save file, could you perhaps be bothered uploading it someplace?
(Not that I think I'll find anything useful, as I believe GalaXyHaXz, but I'd still like to check it out. :))

As for the Sorceress, have you considered Inferno as a fire skill? On the old lurkerlounge forums I read that it was used even in Hell, so it might be absurdly strong in Normal? Also, of all fire skills, I think Inferno suits the name Flamer the best. :D

@GalaXyHaXz
Do you have any more details? What is the cause? It would be great if we knew how to avoid it.
I failed to replicate the bug when I tried to, some time ago, so I guess I either overlooked something, or it's more obscure/specific.
(Any clue when it was fixed?)
As a friend of Dorothy, I approve of this message.
 

Albatross

Active member
Mar 17, 2020
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Yes, the file is still as it was at the instant I realized what had happened. I've internally referred to it as "finding a new way to die". The only things I really did quest-wise in the MP game where this occurred:

-A semi-rush of act 2.
-A full old-style cheat rush of act 3 where I just simply went straight to Mephisto.



Honestly, I don't recall ever casting this spell. I'll look into it, though.

[Edit: She just turned 18, and learned fire wall. This... is an amazing spell.]



n_n thanks
@Barl
When you talked to Tyreal with Flamer, was Dorothy still down there in Tal Rasha's Chamber..?
Because that actually seems to be the problem. :/

I'm not too familiar with quest-related stuff, but it seems that talking to Tyreal will update the quest flag(s) for every character in Tal Rasha's Chamber, regardless of what the quest status is of the character that talks to Tyreal, and regardless of party-status. Everyone down there is affected, kind of like how Cow King works in later patches, with the difference being that in this case the game doesn't consider the quest status of the initiator.

You can avoid it in the future by making sure the rusher is not in Tal Rasha's Chamber when a rushee talks to Tyreal. You don't have to leave the party though.
Yeah, that's exactly what happened, now that I recall. Good to know, thanks.

My normal-locked sorc is doing well, managed to hit level 40 this morning.

View attachment 11061

From 39 to 40 took about 5 or 6 full CS clears in eight-player games. My initial goal was level 50, but it seems like that will take a very long time. On a typical more-or-less single-pass playthrough with a new character, in SP, I tend to reach hell act 4 by lvl 40 about, so it's amusing to me that I've reached that in normal only.
So I’ve been having the itch to get back into some D2 and am thinking I’ll start all the way back in 1.00. I’ve read through the time travel guides but haven’t had a chance to get through the entire post here. I’ve got a few questions before I get started and am sorry if some have been covered throughout here.

What are some goals for things like life and damage in hell? It’s been a while since I’ve played D2 and compared to D3 with their super inflated numbers I don’t fully recall what’s actually decent or what’s crap. Plus it feels like numbers might be quite a bit different than 1.09/1.10+
How important are resists once you get to hell?
Are these kind of things not really of any concern as long as you are making the progress that’s outlined in the guides?
Has anyone tried or is working on patching gomule/ATMA to work?
Any preference over trenshadow vs bliss switchers? Why is the newer bliss a no go and is the one linked in the time travel guide still the newest allowed one?

I suppose that’s it for now. I’ve got all the files downloaded to my laptop but haven’t gone through and got it all working yet. Thanks in advance for any and all replies and look forward to sharing more once I get going.
When I play a caster class (e.g., necro, sorc) by level 40 I typically have around 400 hitpoints. Depending on how much you grind for levels, you may find yourself lagging behind in level (i've baroned characters routinely at level 45). This might be mitigated by re-running areas or multi-boxing the emulate the players setting but, I don't do either of those things so I can't speak to that. Monsters in general have far less HP than in later versions. Classic in general just simply has lower HP values. Urdars are the highest regular-level monster at lvl 82 in hell. (see the archived battle.net strategy guide from 2000: http://web.archive.org/web/20000815065211/http://www.battle.net/diablo2/)

They list Urdars as having from 577-1040 HP. Not sure if that's accurate but it's the official strategy guide, right?

For any character other than a two-handed barb (pike/polearm), you'll want to find a socketed tower shield (all socketed items have a fixed number of sockets so they don't vary) and cube up 3 perfect diamonds. The resistance penalty only being -50 in hell can still be hard to overcome, and the ~57 resist all from a 3-pdiamond shield helps a lot.

In general high resists and high block are what you'll want. As well as simple avoiding getting surrounded by monsters since they can stunlock you and you'll just die. I've been playing 1.00 off and on for like, the past year or so? There is a LOT about it that's different from current D2/1.09/1.10/etc. I forget exactly what's covered in the guides for time travelling, though.

Also, the sorc I posted about above has decided to leave for nightmare! I got bored I guess. :p
Thanks for the quick reply. I think I’ve got a hard copy of that strategy guide packed away somewhere. Or maybe it was for 1.07... whichever came with the older battle chest.

As I’m reading through the threads and looking at the gear mentioned and snapshots from people I’m thinking to myself, “is that really that great?” And then feeling really disconnected from how much I used to know about this game. I’m sure it will all be coming back in due time.
Evaluating rare items in classic is difficult if you haven't played the game like that before. Usually desirable rare items have fhr, life, good resists like fire and cold (lightning resist seems more abundant so you'll likely have that maxed a lot of the time or at least that's what i end up having). and in classic boots and belts found in hell can often have 12 str, 11 dex, which if spawns on low requirement boots can help conserve stat points into strength so they can be put into energy or vitality instead.

That's another thing: you can't buy mana potions. That didn't happen until 1.10. So for caster classes you often end up with 400-500 life and over 1000 mana by endgame hell (if you find a pair of frostburns and maybe a soj. both are easy enough to find if you grind the cow king for hours a day for months like i have been!).

I don't like plugging my twitch channel, but i sometimes play 1.00 on stream, if you happen to pop in feel free to chat if there's anything you want to know. I think i linked it in the streaming thread.
Well I managed to get everything up and running with multiple instances and no cd all configured in. Yay! Didn’t get much further than that though. Ran through the blood moor and took a few guys out then called it quits. I was just reading through the link about skills and damage along with the enemy info. Which raised some further questions about skills and game mechanics back then.

I know I saw a little bit about it, but does lower resist/conviction effect magic res? The necros bone spirit has some of the highest spell damage, albeit single target, and I always wondered about Hammerdins pre1.10. IIRC most monsters had little to no magic res anyways and it’s was the elemental res that some had? I like to play the oddball character builds.

Also, does stun get docked in nm and hell? Or do champs/uniques/bosses get stunned the same or less?

I’m also hoping to stream some once I get the glide wrapper figured out. That’s my last thing to figure out before delving too much deeper.

Lastly, charge had a crazy ed% has anyone played around with that? And I’m done for the night.
Hammerdins are good. They deal physical damage instead of magic, though. Charge is broken and different.

I'll have to do another d2 stream soon
does the physical dmg leech?
nope! + mana per kill is nice though. trying to gamble a unique bone shield and a spectral shard for the past two weeks. sometimes they're hard to get but, if you just keep gambling you'll eventually get what you want:
Might or concentration buff the damage at all? Thinking about hammer/shield bash for a pally build maybe?

Another thing I forgot to ask, does hydra only allow one on screen at a time or can you cast multiple of them at a time?

And for necro haven’t seen much mention of Skellies of any kind so I’m guessing they’re a complete waste of time.

Edit: answered own question about CE: it’s 50/50 physical and fire.
Concentration works with hammers but the LCS doesn't reflect it in 1.00 ("fixed" in later patches). Since you only need to max conc and bh, you'll have extra skill points so i usually get a point in redemption, some in holy shield, and a couple in smite. smite is okay in late normal or nightmare but for crowd control later on it's not very safe. at least that's my experience.

See here: View attachment 12095

192 + 390% is more than enough for hell cs. as mentioned previously monsters don't go much past 1000hp for regular monsters.

Never used hydra, dunno.

Skeletons are useless. CE/blood golem and iron maiden is the combo deck if you like that type of thing. not sure much else is possible necro wise. never really tried.
Regarding Blessed Hammer, for any min-maxers, it's fairly easy to combine Might + Concentration for Blessed Hammer to reach disgusting damage.
The cycle for auras is 3 seconds, meaning every 3 seconds the equipped aura is "activated", and when that happens it is applied for 8 seconds.
So once your current aura is activated and you switch to the other one, you'll have both auras for ~8 seconds, depending on the timing. (This was/is called "flashing".)
And just fyi, Concentration and Might aren't calculated in until a hammer actually hits a target, so you don't even have to make sure that you switch to the other aura before you cast a hammer. Hope that makes sense.


Edit: Turns out this is not correct for 1.00. Perhaps I got the above from 1.06? I can't remember.


Urdar aren't that high-life. Grotesque can reach 1558, and there are a bunch more that can have more life than Urdar, like those corpse eating guys, those tree guys, Storm Casters, Unravelers, and a bunch more.

@cheerupemokid10
There's no cap for how many Hydras you can have up, but Fire Mastery doesn't work on them, so their damage is fairly poor. There's no cooldown on the skill of course, so you can rapidly put down a few. But they cost quite a bit of mana, so your pool drains quickly.

Lower Resist indeed lowers magic resistance, but Conviction does not. And indeed, not many monsters have magic resist.
(Also: Conviction against players is completely crippled, most likely unintentional; it lowers the "+maximum resist" from your items only. So if you wear Hotspur, which has +15 maximum fire resistance, then Conviction will apply only to that 15. And if you have no items with +max resist, then Conviction will literally do nothing.)

Blessed Hammer deals 150% damage against Undead btw. This multiplier is separate from Concentration and Might, so at higher levels your damage is pretty disgusting against anything undead.
One downside to the fact that BH deals physical damage is that it can be blocked by enemies. It's especially annoying against Diablo.

Not sure how stun works on champions/uniques. I'll check it out. :p

@Barl
What's the deal with Charge? Are you referring to the movement quirks, or something else?
Yes the movement of charge allows for attacks to "chain" together for as long as you have room to do. I called it the "staff charge machine" because i made a charge/thorns paladin that had a pretty decent damage rune staff.
@Fruit: Boo on fire mastery and hydra. That sucks. I do remember reading about flashing with auras though so that makes things even more interesting for a Hammerdin. And thanks for looking into stun, although it doesn’t seem like it will make or break any ideas I have going. I’m going to assume it’s 1/4th in hell like the guide says freeze, cold, and slows are. Are there any other fire skills that fire mastery doesn’t work for?

@Barl: When you said charge is broken I thought you meant it doesn’t work at all, not that it works like that. I’d assume that’s better after reading your last comment. Basically like a built in KB to keep a combo chain of charge going?
Sorry yeah, I meant broken as in imbalanced and powerful, not broken as in it doesn't work. Yes, it has an inherent knockback. I think it kinda stacks with knockback if it's present on the weapon too. At least that's what I've been able to observe. i try to show how it works here on the youtube:

@cheerupemokid10

Stun:
  • Is never applied to act bosses
  • Has a 50% chance of being applied to Champions and (Super) Uniques
  • Is always applied to regular monsters and minions
  • Always applies the full length, regardless of difficulty or monster
  • Has a hardcap of 10 seconds, just like in 1.14
So there, very simple. 50% is decent odds against uniques, a lot higher than in 1.14 (where it's only 10%).
Also, except for act bosses, there don't seem to be any restrictions. So unlike in 1.14, you can actually stun static enemies like Crow Nests, Coldworm the Burrower, Mummy Sarcophagus, etc. It seems to halt their AI, so I guess they will temporarily stop spawning monsters. Might even work on those Maggot Eggs to prevent them from hatching, heh.



Regarding Fire Mastery, only Hydra is screwed.
The reason is simple; when damage is calculated (whether it's melee or missile), the function responsible for applying Fire Mastery does a number of checks.
The first one is "does the attack carry any fire damage", if yes, then the second one is "is the source a player".. the Hydra will already fail this second check, since it's a monster, so the game exits the function without applying FM.
It would also fail the third (is the source a Sorceress) and fourth (does the source have Fire Mastery) checks.
I don't think they fixed this until 1.07. Real shame. :<

Then again, not needing Fire Mastery does save up a lot of skill points. :p Unfortunately the skill costs a lot of mana, so perhaps it's not a good choice in the end.
But it sure is a fun build. Static Field + Hydra + Blizzard for example is quite possible. Maybe throw in some Warmth to reduce mana problems. Coolio. B)

And just fyi, FM also is not directly applied to Enchant:
If a Sorceress is Enchanted, then (if she has it) FM will increase Enchant damage for her, but when Enchanting allies, FM is not applied.
If an Enchanted Sorceress does a ranged attack, then FM is applied twice to the fire damage from Enchant, but unfortunately Enchant is reduced to 1/3 for ranged attacks, so the damage will still be poor. (The more you know, eh?)



I also took a look at auras again to refresh my memory, and the cycle is actually 3 seconds in 1.00, not 2 seconds like I said in my prior post. (I probably got the 2-second cycle from the Basin wiki, but that's of course 1.14.)

So once you equip an aura, it takes 3 seconds for it to activate, and when it does, it will be passed on to enemies or allies. Then the aura will stick for 8 seconds.
The only exception I see is Fanaticism, which activates immediately when it's equipped, rather than having an initial delay of 3 seconds.
For the provider himself however, auras are enabled/disabled instantaneous..

So unfortunately I was also wrong about flashing. (Maybe what I said applies to 1.06? -- I have developed a talent for mixing up patches.)
The "8 second aura cling" actually only applies to enemies and allies, and not to the provider himself. So it's useless to skill both Concentration and Might.
Furthermore, Concentration (and Might) are actually baked into the missile, so you want to make sure that Concentration is active when you cast the Hammer, because if you cast the Hammer first and then turn on Concentration, the aura won't affect the hammer.



@Barl
That's one cool charge-din. I love that you went with a Staff, heh.
Didn't realize that Charge always hits. Or maybe I once knew and I've just forgotten. :> I guess I'll check it out to satisfy my curiosity, perhaps it works similarly to Leap Attack, which is also quite crazy.



OK then. Back to the nerdcave!
@Barl: Now I know I’ve read about the aura flashing before too. But maybe it was to flash conviction on mobs then swap back to something else for speed/damage? Idk... but I know it’s been discussed before in one of the time travel patches.

I figured that was the reason behind the mastery issue, it makes complete sense. Still disappointing though.

Seems like stun might be a nice option against cow king then and any other “tough” targets. War cry for the barb is sounding a lot better now.

I made it through the den of evil last night with my barb/sorc at a whopping level 4. It’s a little slower going with the sorc so far but I think it will get better once I finally start getting a little gear and skill levels.
Blood raven is down and the crypt/mausoleum proved to be very fruitful before my game glitched due to this stupid hotel internet. I stay in lots of hotels because of my job (railroad) and this hotel has the worst WiFi of them all. But I digress.

Got a pelta lunata from the crypts and arcannas helm from the mausoleum. If only it would have been a tarnhelm! Oh well, it’s stashed in hopes for it. Only level 8 with sorc and 9 with barb but have found a nice ed/lightning trident that has made the going muuuuch better. I would have attached screenshots but I can’t even get on the WiFi now and my cell service isn’t great here either to upload them that way. So I’m calling it a night and gonna get a nap in before I get called out to work back home. Minimal progress, but progress none the less. Hopefully more the next time I have some better internet.
 

Albatross

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Mar 17, 2020
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A pretty good amount of progress over the weekend. Cain is saved, cloister cleared, only a couple of deaths, mostly from an idle sorc and not swapping in time. I had to drop back from p8 to p5 as things were starting to slow down considerably. Mobs were starting to hit too hard and take too little damage. Got to the catacombs 2 wp and called it a night. Will have some time to play tonight and hopefully get through a good chunk of act 2.

Level 16 with the sorc and 17 with the barb. Got some points saved up to hit a few things at 18, but gear drops haven’t been so great. Still using the same trident I found quite a while ago. I have gotten a mana leech ammy and life leech ring so that let’s me use bash nonstop on everything but mana burn enemies and those damn apparitions. The ll keeps up for the most part unless I get surrounded by two or more mobs at once or a strong champ pack. Only other notable drop has been Arctic furs with their @res. That makes two sets and one unique. Otherwise, my green and gold fountain has no longer been flowing.

Can’t wait for firewall. Static is awesome until it comes time to finish off a pack. And I’ve been pumping mana so much I don’t have much life left by that time to to be able to tank some finisher skills. Planning for firewall, blizz, and static. Not wanting to use FO as that’ll be a main skill on one for a later patch I’m thinking. I do still have my 1.09 characters saved from about 7 years ago but I’m thinking about going fresh with these 1.00 chars. That is a lot of repeated farming and whatnot for later though, so we’ll see once I actually get there. It’s a ways off and I’ve got much shorter term goals for now.
Ugggghhhhh I got the cube and tried upping rejuvs... only to find out I can’t. I’ve got a mule full of em! Feel like that’s been a bit of a waste hoarding them now.

But this does bring me to another question, is the cobalt ring recipe bugged in 1.00 or just 1.07 for an mpk ring? Anyone ever even tried it? I only have three chipped sapphires so I feel like it may be a waste to try and find out for myself. May make the sorc work better if so cause I’m still staying strong on the barb for now.

Otherwise, cube rings/ammys I’ve got so far? Or save for a higher Clvl or later patch? Don’t have many as I accidentally exited out of my long game Friday night with the host before picking them up with my mule.
Hey @cheerupemokid10

Nice progress, keep it up it can get easier once WW becomes available

it has been a while since I played 1.00 but from what I can remember of the cube recipes in 1.00, the recipe I found that does give Full rejuvs was 3 health + 3 mana + 1 gem = 1 Full Rejuv. Can't remember if any gem grade works so cannot test this.

So try to save those amethysts for this recipe as amethysts are generally useless in 1.00 once you have a 2 Pamethyst mask for twinking up to clvl 8. It is difficult if you do not have excess mana potions also

Once you get maggots you should get lots of gems in players 5 or above
Well I wasn’t very good at the whole maggot spawning thing. Idk what I did to mess it up but just kept questing afterwards instead of trying to figure it out. The XP gains seemed pretty minimal. Summoner down and a canyon of magi cleared. Decided against running this repeatedly as well and just went for ole Duriel. Static with sorc and baba bash for the kill. No special drops from him and I took him down at only lvl 23.

Moved on to A3 and gambled all my money on 3 pikes. Two were the same +14 star but the third, which I had to sell off some stashed items to get enough money for, rolled with enhanced damage and 1 cold dmg. Woot! Only problem is it’s soooooo slow without the 0fps of WW. Once I’m there I’m sure it will destroy. But until then the 3 hits with my Spetum is faster and better for leeching more. I’m able to get more hits in when I get in to recovery animation or stunlocked by the heavy hitting mobs. It only takes 2 hits for most mobs with the pike right now, but the spetum is still faster.

May have to go back and do some leveling somewhere though.

And on a good note, a couple more sets and two uniques. Berserker splint mail, cathan mesh and helm, venom husk, and a worm skull! Too bad I’m not making a necro yet. Shopped a few more nice items too. Slowly getting there.
Wormskull is still awesome in 1.00 since leech works on anything and no penalties in nm nor hell. Should go very well with pike and ww as long as you can find a source of mana leech, usually jewelry.
I started a Sorceress over the weekend. Pumped Charged Bolt, stuck a Triumphant sword and rings on her, and wrecked ship until Normal Trav. FE council blew up in my face and deeded me instantly. Going to try again with some better gear (take time to shrine 3 diamonds) but it worked really well for /p1.
Yeah I’m considering swapping to the wormskull from a +21 life helm for the extra LL. I do have some ML on a ring so I’m doing alright so far. I think I need to gamble or shop for a pair of ias gloves possibly though.

Sorc has a nice +2(x) mana and life belt and an fcr ring/ammy. Then a bunch of +mana gear. Think I may need to search for some triumphant gear like @logoutzero mentioned though.

Still playing just at /p5 for now but might try doing some /p8 in canyon for extra xp. I’m just so impatient and ready to get to some cow runs. I’ll get there eventually though.
Well, second attempt at a Boltress is going well enough. This time, enough Strength for Large Shield, and the rest Vitality. Max Charged Bolt, a point in Warmth, and am now working on Teleport. I intended her to hopefully be able to handle Normal rushes, and maybe some Cow King to gear other characters, but MAN there's such a huge jump from Act III to IV!

Still missing a point of MPK on a ring, but not sure it would fix anything. Seems like the dangerous mobs have pretty good Lightning Resistance. Took her into CS, but backed down for now. Maybe some EXP grinding will help.

If nothing else, she was easily able to get most of the way through Normal on a fresh start, and should have no problems rushing others to the good self-MP EXP areas, like Canyon and RoF. Currently level 25, and taking a break. I might rush a Barb or Necro, as that was really the Sorceress' whole purpose. Slogging along with a sub-30 Barb or sub-18 Necro is not what I call fun.
From last summer's discussion of patch notes:



I wonder if this has to do with somehow equipping the weapon from the set, then equipping another of the weapon onto the offhand slot? Of the five +skill sets, those are the only two where you can auto-unequip the weapon by equipping another weapon in the offhand; it's possible that the +skill bonus from the set gets misapplied when this happens (or if you try this with a full inventory and somehow the set bonus is reapplied?).
I thought I had found an old post on the lurker lounge where the bug was described as having to do with dying while having the entire set equipped.
@Barl
Right. :p
@DariusTriplet
As far as I know, there are only two (Infernal & Milabrega), because the bug is specifically with +skills from set bonuses not being removed from the character.

Equip the set, die, and the +skill bonus from the set will still be in effect.
This keeps stacking, so by repeating the process of dying and picking up your corpse, you're able to reach absurd skill levels. It's possibly something that the SPF mods would ban. I mean, imagine a level 200 Concentration on a level 200 Blessed Hammer.
It resets when you leave the game however, so it isn't a permanent buff (probably a good thing). But if you just gather some monsters around a waypoint, you should have no issues dying a few dozen of times in a relatively short time -- certainly time you will make up for by killing at insane speeds. (Level 100 Bone spear, anyone?)
Obviously, this is not for Hardcore characters. :p

There does not seem to be a ceiling to skill levels, so you would eventually cause an overflow somewhere. I wonder what kind of funny consequences it might have. Some skills may crash the game, while others will simply cause positive numbers to go negative. But we're probably talking about at least a few hundred skill levels before something starts going very wrong.

Perhaps something that you'd want to run past a mod before abusing.
@Barl @Fruit Many thanks! I must've overlooked the Lurker Lounge link regarding the bug.

I doubt I'll be abusing this bug anytime soon - I play almost entirely HC - but it's fun to think about what level 255/65535 Teeth would look like :D
We all expect lots of screenshots and videos.
More than probably ;)

Our position is basically:

Play the old patches, enjoy the old patches for what they are. Enjoy your hard won items in the future, if you choose to forward them.

NOT:
Try and find ways to exploit old patches for loot.
To be clear: I definitely understand and respect that view from the mods. And I 100% agree with it. So I don't want to discuss the use or abuse of this bug in any way.

Buuuuuuuuut ... yes, it would be hilarious to just do this on a test character, just to see a lvl 100+ Teeth, Charged Bolt, ... at work :p.
Ag

Agreed :D
It shouldn't be done to actually profit from it, but I still would love to see the outcome of it.... For science!
When I played a lot of 1.00 I had tried to collect the entire Milabrega's set to try it out and make youtube video about it, just to show off ancient bugs and glitches in the game. But I wasn't able to find all the items in time before I lost interest in the idea. Maybe someday.
May have been a bnet only thing, or maybe it was in (a) patch(es) between 1.00 and 1.04.

I still had these links saved:
In particular:


I think 1.03 was live when those posts were made, so perhaps it was a post-1.00 thing.
From that first quote, it sounds like the bug was a result of a patch.


In the 1.04 patch notes there's also this:

Perhaps before clients were updated to 1.04, this particular change was at first a server-side only thing that caused this "equip anything" bug exclusively on bnet. Blizzard usually had their servers updated incrementally before clients were updated with one big package.
Finally got 1.00 working again on the new laptop. Time to pick up where I left off. Barb is 85, got one sorc at 70, 3 sorcs at 67 and then a necro, barb and sorc at 57.
@helvete writing in his guide "I dare you to level this far in 1.00 though...." makes it soooo tempting to get that barb up there ^^.
 

Albatross

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Mar 17, 2020
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28
@Tenecabo 85 is only the start. To guarantee that any amulet gamble are a high enough ilvl to possibly get +2 skills, 93 is the goal. It can be done especially if you self multi play with the modified dll. How is the barb and sorc geared?
4 urdar champ pack as close to the last wp as possible is the way to go. You'll get tired of the same rares over and over, but gold and exp is great.
They are pretty well geared. I should really get the barb a better pike at some point (is just sub 100 dam, but my highest damage pike only has 25 dura). I don't use the sorc much anymore, the barb face rolls through anything including Hephaesto (I only skip him if he's mana burn/teleport combo). Almost 86 on the barb now. Yes I self multi with 8 clients.

I'll post his gear when I get home tonight.
The main reason I want him at 91 is for the +3 skill tab crafts in 1.07. I will keep the lower barb in 1.00 and he will be my main 1.00 guy.
Yeah teleporting/MB/might Hephasto is dangerous and annoying for sure. I just avoided him at > 87 because a death meant he was too dangerous to retrieve your corpse.
Please don't mind my horrible paint skills.

View attachment 12646

Also, funny enough pretty much right after @helvete mentioned the champ pack I got an urdar boss pack right next to wp with a shrine in between wp and the boss pack. Too bad not a champion pack but I think I'll ran these for a bit. Unfortunately it also means no self mp or I'd lose the seed.

View attachment 12647

EDIT: Erm… so this just happened:
View attachment 12649

View attachment 12650

I got both of these on completely different runs. o_O
I play completely selffound and will never trade (can't trade 1.00 stuff anyway), but might need a mod ruling on these @maxicek
This is known, relatively common, and a big part of the reason for banning trade og pre-lod items.

Also the whole reason why I said tired of the same rares a few posts up.

Minions have no xp bonus, so until you get more xp from one lvl 85 unique urdar, you're much better off with four lvl 84 champion urdars. This doesn't happen until lvl 90 or so.
Ah, now it makes sense. I figured it had to do with unique items, but I can see why banking rare dupes would be a problem. :D


But yeah now I think about it, it makes sense that items keep ending up the same. Monster drops are seeded by their own seed (..is there a better way to put this?). This seed is used & updated at their AI checks, as well as when they attack (for the to_hit roll, the monster_critical roll, and the melee_damage roll), so if the monster does the same amount of random rolls as last game, he will drop the same item. By far the biggest factor of randomness would be the player's actions, as that can affect the frequency of their AI checks, and potentially get them to attack more often. I wonder how they solved this in later patches. :>

Edit: Well, I'm not sure what initially gives the monster their seed, so maybe there's another factor. Maybe that you have to take the same route every time, or something.
I kind of recall farming those ghostey guys in RoF, and whenever they took the same path, the same rare belt dropped. And it wasn't even good!
Do they end up with a different hash value in go mule?
Go mule does not work for 1.00.
My barb is almost 87 now, I have been screening games for the spawns and if they have urdars, spawners and corpse eaters I clean the entire map, as those 3 still give good xp at this point. And with 3 shrines on my route I get to pop an xp one regularly. Also found that if you whirl back you can kill Hephasto without him hitting you, which means he won't override my xp shrine with amp.
This isn't going to be a big deal to you guys but I've been playing 1.00 for a few hours and I've gambled exactly one item. Here it is:

View attachment 12710
I like this patch.
Well done. More awesome rare boots coming your way if you keep gambling the same base!
Nice find! It's always nice to throw 2300 gold at Gheed and get a useful unique out of him.

It looks like you're working on a CE Necro?

(EDIT) One minor thing to note about the +15% max resist - Classic doesn't display resists above 75% (MAX), so you'll need to track that manually when using +max% gear.
I'm doing the 'ol blood golem with iron maiden (the build of my very first character); CE is just to speed things along. I'm doing such a cheesy build because the specific purpose of this character is to get a character I've got stuck in an awkward spot on 1.09... out of the awkward spot (I'm playing on hardcore). I will probably do some gambling/cow king along the way - I could always use more sojs - but I've actually played a fair amount of 1.00 in the past and once I kill hell Diablo with this character I'll probably be moving along.

Speaking of which, doing act bosses on this character has been... interesting. Duriel was a breeze (as is to be expected with a character seemingly specifically designed to take the challenge out of Duriel), but I had to kill Mephisto by putting iron maiden on him and summoning clay golems next to him in hopes that he'd whack them, which, to be fair, did eventually work. Does anyone know if bone spirit scales well enough to get me through nightmare act bosses at least?
I have a hybrid Necro in 1.00 with a maxed spirit, lvl 25 after +skills doing about 400 dmg per spirit. It would take quite a few spirits on their own. But with 30 FCR it will put a small dent on Big D life but you will need something else for you kill him on a regular basis

Big D is the necro's nemesis for sure.

But if some decrep 9+ after +skills,IM and 6 revives with decent Skeleton Mastery synergy you can clear the 3 seals and chaos wearing with decent MF with the bone spirit and CE
No no, don't waste your skill points. Skeleton Mastery does not help Revive. The description's lying (what's new).

Revive does take some value from SM (from skills.txt), but then it uses its own skill level. Someone was sleepy, I guess. :) Revives are kind of incredible in 1.00, but the AI makes you cry.
This is fixed in later versions correct?
I killed Diablo on normal with level 3 bone spear. It took a long time, but it was very easy (I was never in any particular danger; meph was definitely harder). I honestly don't intend to kill Diablo more than once per difficulty. My only requirement is that I can kill him at a remotely reasonable speed.

It sure does. I love when I'm getting chased by a herd of cows and my golem gets hopelessly distracted by a shiny object. Only thing to do is summon a new one (or TP) since if you try to use the tether to get it to come to you there's a good chance it'll just unsummon anyway.
Great tip.

Ah well, too late to save my toon although he does also use some skeleton mages and on rare occasions skeletons. Given the number of bugs in 1.00 I expect Skeleton mastery to not even work on mages elemental damage though. It is good to know for new players . Wasting those points did not cripple my character as I levelled him lots but could cripple a low lvl finisher



Cows are slow, but tank well. I found the AI curses, terror and attract help. Best revives are from act4 doom and abyss knights, urdars and balrogs. Others are useless. 6+ revives, decrepify with one max Bone spell and CE are crucial for killing Hell DeSeis "safely".

If you have some spare points, bone spirit or spear is a decent choice . You can plan to have +3 skills on the necro at end game with a bit of shopping and one SoJ.
Be aware that the interaction between blood golem and iron maiden was reported as being fixed in 1.07.

That always irked me because this



seems at odds with the fact that the 'official strategy guide' on Battle.net encouraged its use:



Seems like the team didn't communicate well. So if you forward your necro to 1.09, you should have a backup plan.
 

Albatross

Active member
Mar 17, 2020
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It does, but very minimally. I grabbed this hardcoded table when I was going through that function:
Code:
  0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 < Skeleton Mastery level
0 0 0 0 0 1 1 1 2 2 2 2
1 0 0 1 1 1 1 1 2 2 3 3
2 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 1 1 1 1
3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
5 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 1 1 1 1
6 0 0 0 0 1 1 1 1 1 2 2
7 0 0 0 1 1 1 1 1 2 2 2
8 0 0 1 1 2 2 3 3 4 4 4
Rows #1 and #8 are only used for the melee skeletons, the rest was shared iirc. Row #1 is block chance, so that caps out at 3% (lol). Can't remember what each of the other rows were used for, but one of them was bonus damage I believe. I think for melee skeletons, it was simply added to their base damage, while for mages it was used as a bonus to the level of their missiles.

As you can see, the columns just stop at 10. Doesn't mean that skeletons don't benefit at all from more levels in SM, but they barely keep improving after that. Well, even up to 10 they don't improve all that much. I don't remember the function too well, so I can't say exactly what the default improvement of SM was for mages, but I think only some extra hitpoints.

Well, sorry if that's a bit vague, I didn't try very hard to get a good picture of these summons, because it quickly became clear that they're not worth the skill points. :p

I assume so, since the Basin wiki mentions nothing about it. The bug is still there in 1.07, though. No clue when it was fixed (assuming it was).

It wasn't until 1.10 that this was "fixed", RobbyD mentions it in his 1.09 guide as well:

It was a popular build on bnet when 1.09 was live. :) People with this build were upset about it when 1.10 changed it. Maybe that the patch notes meant another bug? Or maybe they just forgot to fix it, but still added it to the patch notes. :p

Edit: He can expect it to be less powerful in 1.09 though, as the leech is calculated differently in 1.00, based on the current hitpoints of the monster, rather than any damage dealt to it. Therefore the leech scales with player number, and is just generally overpowered. There's even an overflow that can happen where you and your Golem get "healed" for a huge negative number (dozens of thousands). In this case, negative health won't kill you because the game of course assumes positive healing, and thus never checks if it kills you. But if you take any damage while your hitpoints are in the minus, you'll die. If you keep taking these negative heals, eventually the game crashes because of another overflow. If I remember correctly, only Full Rejuvenation Potions will fix the negative hitpoints.

Classic Blizzard. :D
Ah. I don't have much experience (I did once convert a 1.00 bloodmancer to 1.14 just to see what would happen (it's real bad lemme tell you)) with 1.07-1.09 so, I guess I just trusted that when they said a bug was fixed..--

--...ahahaha

Does this mean that a bloodomancer would work in 1.07? I would definitely try that.
@Barl
Haha, yeah, Diablo patch notes are hit-or-miss. Not as bad as the character screen though, I think. :p

I still had it somewhere in my old notes, yes the Golem and Necromancer leech from damage returned by the Golem when he's hit in 1.07. It also works with Thorns and Spirit of Barbs. :p (Though my notes say nothing about how it's calculated.)

I wonder if 1.07 has anything else to offer for the Necromancer. His skeletons are probably still terrible. Revives could be pretty cool, since you can get items with Teleport charges in 1.07 to take the revives along with you, and their health still scales with player number. Amplify Damage, Decrepify and Lower Resist work at 100% effectiveness against monsters with immunities (in stead of at 20% like in later patches), and LR still lowers magic resistance to increase the damage of Bone spells. Iron Golem doesn't save yet with the player, so he's no good. Clay Golem doesn't slow yet, so he's no good. Attract had no limit yet on how many monsters can be affected. Am I missing anything relevant? o_O
I played a necromancer when 1.09 was live. Not only does it work, but it actually works better - in 1.00 for whatever reason the leech is often insufficient to keep the blood golem alive (ie blood golem will survive against an entire boss pack but will die to just the minions). As mentioned, blood golem got a boost to the amount of leech they got and I think that's why.
That definitely helps, but the more important factor is the way it's calculated. In 1.00 it's the monster's health, so if monsters are low on health then your golem will leech only little, while those monsters still do respectable damage to it. So in those cases, the damage can overshoot the leech by a lot, and your golem will just get destroyed. In 1.09 it's easy for the leech from the returned IM damage to exceed the damage that the golem received, so it's almost impossible for the golem to die against physical (melee) damage.
Finally got my team to the Hell River of Flame waypoint. Time for some maggot farming now.

I’m mainly after nice boots, so I think I will level a bit then get a Cow King map that drops an appropriate base. Is that the best way for getting rares? I can gamble too, but that seems to be less efficient to me.

Any reason to run Hell Cows over NM? Any drops I should be looking for?

Edit: Re-read Treeharl’s guide and it looks like Normal runs for Greaves is the best bet. The bit about seeds & writing down the drops & stuff still confuses the hell out of me though.
I got bored in other versions so I'm starting 1.00 again with all new characters. Probably going to try to stream a decent portion of it too (with grinding done off-camera in between streams). twitch.tv/harddorothy usually around 6-7pm EST if you want to see playing a blood golem/iron maiden/CE necro from scratch
Oh that makes a lot of sense. Thanks. I was very confused about the circumstances that caused my golem to die.
More rares from King, higher chance that items are upgraded to Exceptional, and higher level affixes. Other than that I can't think of anything. He might also have slightly different drop tables on NM & Hell (compared to Normal), but I don't have my notes on his drops anymore. Not everything in Treeharl's guide is quite right, but I guess none of it really matters enough for me to be annoying about it. :p

As far as King runs go, I'd just check which items he can drop on NM / Hell, and how your kill speed fares on those difficulties. Because even if your main aim is boots, he can possibly drop Exceptionals that you're interested in. Not sure if there are any nice boots-affixes that can't spawn on Normal, but if there are, then that would be another motivation to farm NM/Hell in stead of Normal.

And to clarify the "more rares", not sure if Treeharl's guide mentions this specifically (I may have skimmed over it), but if an item base is upgraded to Exceptional and then rolls for unique quality, then of course the item doesn't exist, so he'll drop a 5x durability rare in stead and then tries again to drop a unique. In line with these "patterns" that Treeharl's guide talks about, this effectively increases the amount of rares that King drops, kind of similar to holding unique items in your stash/inv/body to force certain bases to drop as rare quality in stead.
Easier kill on normal and NM. Allows you to use patriarch and the ward instead of pike, which could save inventory space. Aim to use as many of the unique items he can drop as possible to force rares.
Great tips, thanks @helvete and @Fruit - I will get back to this between RFL rounds.

Better get that second Barb levelled up for the sword and board variant.
I have been hitting the RoF Maggots the last couple of days. Levelling of the mules seemed very slow at first, but now they are at 36 and my Barb has hit 72.

How far did you guys level this way? What is reasonable?

If I want to run Normal Cow King with my Sword & Board barb (one of the mules), I think a few more levels are still needed.

Edit:
Is the Necro Build just 20 in CE, IM and Blood Golem? What about Golem Mastery & Summon Resist?
Should be reasonable to get the mules to the 70's, however, as the killing character level rises, exp drops off for the mules as well because of how exp is handled. The workaround is to simply switch to one of the mules for killing. A lvl 75 killer will provide good exp, but a lvl 90 will provide almost none.

Been a while since I did this, so there is a chance my memory is wrong. My mules were about lvl 76 before I had to give up because main char was way too high lvl.
Thanks Helvete. I have a third barb in the mules, so swapping the gear over should be easy.
hi all, i restarted 1.00. i was wondering is it legit to get javelins from amazons and stack them using multiplayer muling?

Thx in advance,
hi all, i restarted 1.00. i was wondering is it legit to get javelins from amazons and stack them using multiplayer muling?

Thx in advance,
Don’t really understand what you mean- Are you talking about making multiple new character Amazons just for the Javelins?
ehm ill try again. I want to mule javelins and tps to a character to make life easier starting out. Is this something that is considered legit in spf?
As long as they are from 1.00, yes. I’m just not clear where the items are coming from if you are restarting?
Default equip from amazon characters are buckler, stack of javelins, one tp and one id scroll. He's asking if he can make like 8 zons, and mule all the starting gear over to one for QOL purposes.

Kinda cheesy, but I don't see how it's any different from twinking on uniques from lvl 1.