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Thoughts on D2R in hindsight?

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PandadudeSP

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Nov 15, 2008
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Hey guys

Last time I posted here it was on Diablo.ii and I haven't played since either. I obviously heard it when D2R came out, but I didn't pay attention to the details before now.

What was initially a graphics overhaul has come to include a very extensive balance update, with changes to skills, new runewords and items, and new mechanics such as terror zones. As we know from the development of D3 and D4 as well as other reboot blizzard titles like WoW classic or Wc3 reforged, the original developers with their core vision and design philosophies have left the studio, and what is left at the studio is unable to replicate the original successes.

On this forum we have players with decades of experience with D2 across versions, and we have the ability to continue to play earlier versions.

Since I haven't played D2R yet, what are your experiences with the game design compared to earlier versions, especially in the context of single player?

What is good and what is bad?

What is your overall impression of the reboot in hindsight?
 
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Regarding the whole remastering part I think they did an excellent job at everything. The menu, the tabs, the graphics are all beautiful to deliver a high quality game. The ability to switch back to legacy graphics with a single button is somehow going to let the original D2 go off easily since for the most part, it's the nostalgia that drives you back.

Some QoL stuff that were introduced in the beginning were badly needed for such a grinding game. A major patch that brought some changes to skills and items were also a big plus for me. The only downside I can think of are the Sunder Charms which I find them badly implemented.

Generally, I wouldn't say the game has changed. It's like a new patch has dropped and changed a few stuff like it always happened in the past. Overall, I am very pleased with D2R to a point that I can't revert back to D2L and that's mainly because I like to see any game that I play being updated. I am always open to new stuff that can expand the game.

And yeah, I was one of those player that said that can live without fancy graphics.
 
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If D2R just added Terror Zones (boosts lvl of all monsters in a particular area relative to your clvl, rotates per hour), it would be an unequivocal success. The fact that we longer have to farm the same lvl 85 areas over and over is a huge boost to the longevity of the game.

Aside from TZ, the graphic updates are appreciated and the balance pass on skills has all made sense to me. D2R was definitely not a cash grab - they clearly put a lot of thought into what they changed (and what they didn't).

Notably, items have remained largely untouched from the last Legacy D2 patch. They have tweaked/added some set bonuses, added additional base options for existing runewords, and added new runewords, but none of the existing uniques/sets/runewords themselves have received any changes. Considering how much items shape the core D2 experience, I personally agree with this philosophy and hope that any additional item changes are confined to new uniques and new runewords.
 
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I assumed running Terror Zones on all chars might itself get stale compared to running different a85s optimized for different toons, and maybe limit the viability of mono element toons. But then the sunder charms address this by making everyone faceroll?

I just looked at the new runewords, and I guess they don't seem op compared to existing runewords. I was worried about power creep with buffs, more synergies, better hirelings etc. But the real power creep was maybe just 1.10 with OP runewords and to a lesser extent 1.13 for making said runewords readily available to the SP community.
 
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PandadudeSP said:
I assumed running Terror Zones on all chars might itself get stale compared to running different a85s optimized for different toons, and maybe limit the viability of mono element toons. But then the sunder charms address this by making everyone faceroll?
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Sort of? The sunder charms come with a big res debuff, so you have to deal with that. I think that for a player that has many items (e.g. good res charms), the debuff is minimal and facerolling is easier to achieve. I have done a few characters that use more than one sunder charm and I've toyed with making a build that uses as many as possible.

PandadudeSP said:
I just looked at the new runewords, and I guess they don't seem op compared to existing runewords. I was worried about power creep with buffs, more synergies, better hirelings etc. But the real power creep was maybe just 1.10 with OP runewords and to a lesser extent 1.13 for making said runewords readily available to the SP community.
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Dual Mosaic is OP, especially for the runeword cost, though good/optimal bases are hard to come by. It's also a lot of fun.
 
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However, Mosaic doesn't care about optimal bases. You could use random plain claws without ever thinking about breakpoints and still plow through P8 eyes closed like I do. It's just that powerful.

I've never really seriously played an assassin before D2R but now I have a L98 one sporting dual Mosaic made in random claw bases. Everything melts before her. Yes, it's fun but also borderline too powerful. Gonna keep playing her nevertheless.

D2R in general definitely is worth the money. Been playing on and off since the release of D2 and didn't care about the graphics either until I got my hands on this. It's beautiful and some of the QoL that comes with it is just too good to pass to permantly go back to LoD.
 
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PandadudeSP said:
Yes the graphics and QoL look nice, but still concerned around trivializing the game. E. g. Pavke farming at least one of every single unique TC87 (not sure about Tyraels) off TZ Andy in 5000 runs / 30 hours.

https://www.reddit.com/r/diablo2/comments/151bqz9
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That's certainly a valid concern. TZ Andy is a wicked drop machine herself and terror zones in general will tremendously affect your loot & experience gain. Definitely not comparable to LoD experience.

There's a setting to enable/disable terror zones entirely in offline mode.

I don't like everything D2R brought - sunders being one of those things, tz loot in certain spots being another. Purists true to LoD might find D2R a hard pill to swallow but to me the overall effect remains positive
 
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Honestly it changed quite a bit. It's competently done remaster, with added content and lots of overall positive stuff. Qol makes sense, new RWs make sense, buffing underused skills and such makes sense, and while I don't completely agree with some stuff implemented, it's always done from the angle of helping players have fun with the game.

The argument of TZs trivializing the game is something I'm not buying, because people had couple decades for getting their D2L goals sorted, and if they couldn't do it in that timeframe... well idk. It's different experience for sure, but I think it's probably better than never in your life getting DWeb for your poison necro. Also, real endgame stuff hasn't really been touched to my knowledge and getting great inventory, jewels, good rolls on items and such is still the same. It will still take you lifetime to get your inventory sorted out, but core of your build will be easier to get which is a plus in my book.
I've seen lots of posts from players that preferred 1.09, and that 1.10 overhaul ruined game for them. D2R is pretty much the same force - game moving forward, and there's no way it won't displease some people.

That being said, without LAN and by fundamentally changing some game mechanics, I won't be playing D2R. I'm happy that game got good and healthy remaster, but removing LAN options is crossing the Rubicon moment for me.
 
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frozzzen said:
Honestly it changed quite a bit. It's competently done remaster, with added content and lots of overall positive stuff. Qol makes sense, new RWs make sense, buffing underused skills and such makes sense, and while I don't completely agree with some stuff implemented, it's always done from the angle of helping players have fun with the game.

The argument of TZs trivializing the game is something I'm not buying, because people had couple decades for getting their D2L goals sorted, and if they couldn't do it in that timeframe... well idk. It's different experience for sure, but I think it's probably better than never in your life getting DWeb for your poison necro. Also, real endgame stuff hasn't really been touched to my knowledge and getting great inventory, jewels, good rolls on items and such is still the same. It will still take you lifetime to get your inventory sorted out, but core of your build will be easier to get which is a plus in my book.
I've seen lots of posts from players that preferred 1.09, and that 1.10 overhaul ruined game for them. D2R is pretty much the same force - game moving forward, and there's no way it won't displease some people.

That being said, without LAN and by fundamentally changing some game mechanics, I won't be playing D2R. I'm happy that game got good and healthy remaster, but removing LAN options is crossing the Rubicon moment for me.
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You make a good case about the loot from TZs, and I guess it really only comes down to griffon, dweb, and dfathom from TC85 still being valuable in terms of their stats at this point.

I didn't think about it at the time, but I am probably in that 1.09 camp, which is why when I initially came back I went from playing online to SP and didn't have access to high end runewords. I also feel the introduction of synergies made it more difficult to invest into multiple skills, exacerbating the difficulty of dealing with immuness, which still echoes today. Incidentally 1.10 was the first patch after the Blizzard North developer exodus.

Can you elaborate on your issue with lack of LAN? I only know about a yearly dueling tournament on the SPF.
 
I played heavily between 2001 and 2011 and then took a ten year break that started when D3 came out. For me D3 lasted about 18 months and then I moved on. I came back to D2 when I read about D2R. One point I don't see mentioned about D2R is that it does take a more modern computer to play. The "gaming" desktop that I bought in 2015 couldn't handle D2R. Finally had to buy a new laptop to play D2R and I still haven't told my wife how much I paid for it! That and not being able to play over LAN are the only 2 negatives I have with D2R.

I also don't care for Sunder charms.
 
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frozzzen said:
That being said, without LAN and by fundamentally changing some game mechanics, I won't be playing D2R. I'm happy that game got good and healthy remaster, but removing LAN options is crossing the Rubicon moment for me.
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Yeah, that was the biggest drawback for me. I don't enjoy PVP much and I only MPed a few times, but to me removing a key feature is a big drawback. Even if I don't use it often, I like having the option.
 
I chose to leave my legacy characters in 1.14 and start fresh in D2R. As you'd know starting with nothing slows it down a bit, but with time you get geared up.

Its great they finally fixed some bugs .. and I wish they would release for D2 LOD a 1.15 with some of the things that were typo bugs, eg for the assassin and traps.

It can be a bit hard on the eyes going back to the old game. I definitely don't regret getting D2R at all. Some of the builds and new runewords are different than before. Some of the skill changes too, eg Holy bolt hurting demons now too turning into an S tier build.

Sunder charms, another optional thing if you choose to use them can really shake things up. I like the choice of it. I love Terror Zones myself. the in the previous 10 years pre D2R I'd played some .. but not much, last year I had my most fun with Diablo 2 since 2003, I'll leave it at that! You don't have to use it though.

These days I have the option of firing up either D2R or legacy D2 LOD (many patches) if I'm in the mood and glad I have the option of both, and glad I didn't bring my big things to D2R and making legacy poorer. Eg I've recently made an enigma in D2R from a Jah dropped!

Get it on a sale!
 
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PandadudeSP said:
Can you elaborate on your issue with lack of LAN? I only know about a yearly dueling tournament on the SPF.
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Exactly. I've spent majority of my time building and optimizing PvP characters. Not even playing them really, mostly I enjoyed the process of making characters. But by removing LAN it would guarantee that I'd never be able to use those characters again. Even if we play PvP only couple times a year or so it's just nice having option. There is also the case of having final patch out and playing the game by the rules you know and constrains that you understand. Who knows how stuff will change in future patches? What powercreep will be added and all that (for the better or worse, doesn't matter).

As a sidenote, I do agree that adding synergies to game was very bad in terms of build diversity and playing hybrid builds, but 1.10 was also one of best improvements to the game overall. Some didn't like it, but in the end it did more good than bad to D2. Same can be said with 1.13 (?) and increased rune drops? Did it *trivialize* the game by making runes actually possible to get reliably? Kinda, but it sure did more good than bad to overall enjoyment of D2. D2R feels like next step, but in every patch you will have people that won't like it. And that's where I fit in with D2R. My playstyle wasn't nerfed or changed, but it got completely removed.

But we are actually very lucky that we can pick and chose our patches and playstyles as well as having local saves in this game because majority of modern games don't ever give you that option.
 
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frozzzen said:
The argument of TZs trivializing the game is something I'm not buying, because people had couple decades for getting their D2L goals sorted, and if they couldn't do it in that timeframe... well idk. It's different experience for sure, but I think it's probably better than never in your life getting DWeb for your poison necro.
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I totally agree with this!
 
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LouB said:
One point I don't see mentioned about D2R is that it does take a more modern computer to play. The "gaming" desktop that I bought in 2015 couldn't handle D2R. Finally had to buy a new laptop to play D2R and I still haven't told my wife how much I paid for it! That and not being able to play over LAN are the only 2 negatives I have with D2R.
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Haha I still only have my desktop from 2010 or something. Think my phone is catching up to it in terms of specs.

Thanks for all the insightful input everyone. I don't really have time to play D2 either way right now, so I will try to suppress the urge a little longer.

Over the years I have deleted my Atmas stashes, un-installed the game, and thrown away my CDs, which provides a bit of a barrier.
 
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