New 1.07/1.08 Magic Find Meta?

[frozzzen]

A short report on all this; I posted this in discord the other day and yeah... 1.08 + MF trick is strong. Here are some useful things that dropped over the course of exploring this:



Not everything because not everything fits, some stuff is ID'd and some not etc. But it's good way of showing that you can get a very solid base of useful 1.07/8 uniques on the way, especially if you want to use it in newer versions.

So far I never got Schaefer's Hammer, Cranium Basher, Windforce, The Grandfather and Stormspire. Everything else is checked and majority of them have dropped in multiples. Also cows seem to be the best source of good stuff, and as much as I dislike the area, I don't think it should ever be skipped

But I'm curious about some things, if it's even known. How do 1.08 minions work in terms of dropping stuff? In ATMA drop calc I can't get their odds of dropping anything, not even gold. And that's just not true in game. They do drop stuff and they can be horked for additional loot. Also hork. How exactly does it work? It's obvious that you can't hork additional potions from super/unique monster, and it does look like you get regular drop in terms of quality (you can get gold and low quality loot) but do we know exactly how it works and where does it draw its TC restrictions from? If I hork Pindle, do I get second chance of getting Archon Staff, despite his minions not being able to drop it at all?

Also regarding souls. So far I haven't ever managed to make them not wander off while doing the ritual over long period of time. Soul would get stuck behind wall, doodad, or something, and its AI seem to be stuck in constant behavior where it would never go in another ritual attempt as long as it's stuck. I'd have to move slightly towards it, it would spaz and ritual would start almost right away. If you have any videos or screenshot of map where souls don't do this stuff it would be super useful.

 

[ziambe]

A short report on all this;

Very nice info @frozzzen . My finds after about 16(ish??) hours are pretty similar; 4 shakos, 2 ark. valors, 1 eaglehorn, 3 highlords, 8+ mara's, 2 veils of steel, 3ish soj and 3ish bkwb. For TC3 its: 3 knell striker, 3 lenymo, 2 or 3 rixit's, 2 biggin's, 1 Gnasher, 1 Pluckeye, maybe(?) 1 pelta, 1 hotspur, 1 Gull.

Everything else drops so frequently, I only check if it's ethereal because I want a few eth vamps and headstrikers.

Cranium Basher is a bit tricky in that it has a Qlvl of 91 which means it must come from a unique or champion because regular mobs max out at mlvl 90.

At the moment I'm only running areas with at least one mob that has a 'relatively' high drop rate which equates to:

• Crystalline passage only until I find
• Frozen River,
• Halls of Pain,
• Ancient's Way only until i find
• Icy Cellar
• WSK 1,2,3
• Throne

+Pindle, Halls of Vaught/Nihlathak, Sharptooth Slayer, Baal's Minions

I am, however, not doing cows...yet. I have toyed with the idea but i dont like the odds. Based on @galaxyhaxx's guide, cows need to drop their highest tc to drop a hydra bow and highest tc is always much, much rarer. This corresponds with the odds in the drop calculator, but i wonder if you have noticed any of the weap87 bases I mentioned in my previous post (and if so, with what frequency) from cows?

Regarding drop rates of minions and the functionality of hork: did you download the 'fix' for atma which galaxy made? It supposedly fixes minion drop rates in the atma calc...(and i would wager that pindle most certainly offers 2 chances at his drop table with hork, although as i said in my hours of farming 0 of my 'close calls' have come from a unique monster). I think the best information available on mechanics would be anything @Fruit or @art_vandelay have found in the 1.07 info thread (dont know off the top of my head).

Finally, yes the souls are dumb and wander off. But my observations suggest the ritual only requires that they 'see' each other, so as long as at least one still sees you the ritual will still start. Thus maybe try to find a place where they wander off together? I've had the best luck using the corners of maps, even if it means a bit of luring.

Cant wait to get back to the grind in a couple days!

 

[Pyrohemia]

Well this is bizzare. Almost makes me want to get a 1.08 Highlord's for my pvp characters I play once a year.

I think that most people who have played a lot have seen wisps do weird synchronized behaviour, but we never thought it meant anything.

 

[frozzzen]

Very nice info @frozzzen . My finds after about 16(ish??) hours are pretty similar; 4 shakos, 2 ark. valors, 1 eaglehorn, 3 highlords, 8+ mara's, 2 veils of steel, 3ish soj and 3ish bkwb. For TC3 its: 3 knell striker, 3 lenymo, 2 or 3 rixit's, 2 biggin's, 1 Gnasher, 1 Pluckeye, maybe(?) 1 pelta, 1 hotspur, 1 Gull.

Everything else drops so frequently, I only check if it's ethereal because I want a few eth vamps and headstrikers.

Cranium Basher is a bit tricky in that it has a Qlvl of 91 which means it must come from a unique or champion because regular mobs max out at mlvl 90.

At the moment I'm only running areas with at least one mob that has a 'relatively' high drop rate which equates to:

• Crystalline passage only until I find
• Frozen River,
• Halls of Pain,
• Ancient's Way only until i find
• Icy Cellar
• WSK 1,2,3
• Throne

+Pindle, Halls of Vaught/Nihlathak, Sharptooth Slayer, Baal's Minions

I am, however, not doing cows...yet. I have toyed with the idea but i dont like the odds. Based on @galaxyhaxx's guide, cows need to drop their highest tc to drop a hydra bow and highest tc is always much, much rarer. This corresponds with the odds in the drop calculator, but i wonder if you have noticed any of the weap87 bases I mentioned in my previous post (and if so, with what frequency) from cows?

Regarding drop rates of minions and the functionality of hork: did you download the 'fix' for atma which galaxy made? It supposedly fixes minion drop rates in the atma calc...(and i would wager that pindle most certainly offers 2 chances at his drop table with hork, although as i said in my hours of farming 0 of my 'close calls' have come from a unique monster). I think the best information available on mechanics would be anything @Fruit or @art_vandelay have found in the 1.07 info thread (dont know off the top of my head).

Finally, yes the souls are dumb and wander off. But my observations suggest the ritual only requires that they 'see' each other, so as long as at least one still sees you the ritual will still start. Thus maybe try to find a place where they wander off together? I've had the best luck using the corners of maps, even if it means a bit of luring.

Cant wait to get back to the grind in a couple days!

I applied the 1.07/8 fix once before, and just now, and I still can't see minion drops at all. ATMA 5 fwiw. That's why I'm asking about minion drops - just can't figure it out myself, and ATMA refuses to elaborate. If you can dig info out of your ATMA it would be appreciated.
but now you've made me paranoid in terms of ATMA not giving proper odds for items.



As far as cows are concerned I've seen total 1 item from your list from 9-10 runs or so. One rare Unearthed Wand couple days ago. Everything else never spawned to my knowledge, so it's pretty bad, but according to drop odds, cows should be best way of getting Hydra Bow, as there is a lot of them with best odds with the exception of Icy Cellar and FI scales better with regular monsters than super/uniques.

I'll see about Cow level, it might not be worth it, but if goal is Stormspire then it absolutely should be ignored because you will get like 50 Hydra bows on average before getting Stormspire in Icy Cellar. But I don't get why you are running WSK/Halls. Nothing there can drop Hydra bow according to my drop calc and I've never seen bosspack in WSK either.

My route is:
Pindle
Ancient's way (regular scourge + slashers which I should probably drop completely) -> Icy Cellar
Abadon/Infernal Pit/Pit of Acheron (bosspacks only, and I hit act 5 superuniques on the way to these areas)
Crystaline passage bosses -> Frozen River (focus on Evil urns + bosspacks)
Baal waves
Cow level
Total some 45 min but I think I can trim it a lot, and it will probably happen once I get Windforce, since almost every target except Icy Cellar + act5 hell pits will be discarded.

Well this is bizzare. Almost makes me want to get a 1.08 Highlord's for my pvp characters I play once a year.

I think that most people who have played a lot have seen wisps do weird synchronized behaviour, but we never thought it meant anything.

If you want to tag along with us in 1.08 gogo! But if you just want HLW just drop me your mail in pm and I'll send it your way.

 

[ziambe]

If you can dig info out of your ATMA it would be appreciated.

My atma drop table does look considerably different...ill screenshot it when i get home.

Your cow experience sounds as expected; they shouldnt be able to drop an archon staff (weap90) but unearthed wand is weap87 and so it should appear extremely rarely. For what its worth, the unearthed wand is the rarest item within weap87, so you were quite lucky! Or unlucky depending how you wanna look at it

I must strongly advise you to do wsk. Of course its tedious, the density sucks and 0 boss packs, but at least half of my near misses come from there!

I do halls of pain because the undead mobs there can drop weap90 according to my atma, and they can be killed multiple times and can drop each time. While I have seen a thunder maul and possibly berserker axe in the HoP, i cant remember which type of mob they came from. Maybe i made a screenshot, but thats at home too.

For me, the red portals arent worth it. My calc says that of the monsters that spawn in there, only one type (a physical immune minotaur - blood lord maybe), has the 'relatively' high drop chance. (I.e. can drop tc90). Even though beserk stomps them, they obly appear in abbadon and i cba to look for it (although there usually are 2-3 boss packs...maybe i should rethink).

As to whether cows are 'best' is debatable because you have to account for density. They are not the highest row in your list, so assuming the odds difference is 7x or so, youd have to kill 7 cows to equal any one of the higher rows...

 

[frozzzen]

I guess that explains a lot, since we obviously have different drop tables. I think yours is probably correct one because I literally don't have minion drops at all, despite applying fix. Will see how it goes but will pause the project until I get updated drops. It makes zero sense to smash my head in the wall without having proper info.

As far as near misses go, I haven't really had any of items you posted. I've had Thunder Maul and two Unearthed Wands from when I started all of this this. One wand off Pindle one off Cows. Can't really recall where Thunder Maul dropped, but I think it was Ancient's way. But if majority of your good finds come from WSK that would explain a lot since I've never done that area. According to my drop tables, WSK can't drop anything. Not Hydra Bow, and most certainly not Archon Staff. Anyway, looking forward to unfucking this mess so I can do it properly.

EDIT: since it's kinda relevant, this are only eligible targets for Stormspire with their odds.



Essentially it's only couple act5 superuniques, those shattering frozen monsters, and act 5 hell pits Frenzytaurs (note that frozen monsters can't spawn in Icy Cellar, Frozen River and Drifter Caverns so this is already dubious. Frenzytaurs I kinda believe, because they are sort of special. They are Night Lords and Blood Lords in their respective areas, but once they are converted to bosspacks they "morph" into Hell Lords and Death Lords, so them having increased drop odds (same as Icy Cellar) did sit with me.

IDK if your odds are similar to this, but I'd welcome additional sources of Archon Staves, since atm it's very, very few mobs per game.

 

[ziambe]

Did you check the readme that came with the atma fix? Iirc it cant show correct odds for minions and regular monsters at the same time, its either/or depending on which text file you swap.

Im using the 'regular monsters' data, not minions.

I think we may have to rely on the 'science' of trial and error in terms of optimizing efficiency. I am willing to live with potentially incorrect probabilities as long as I can visually confirm that a mob drops the right tc.

 

[frozzzen]

You are right, I was using the minions one - default. So our loot tables shouldn't be compared to each other but should rather be combined. When you do that things actually make more sense:



For example, this explains why Death Lord and Hell Lord type Frenzytaurs minion can drop Archon Staff but Blood Lords can't - because Blood Lord bosspacks don't exists in the game and they get upgraded to Hell/Death Lords, depending on area. Essentially every Frenzytaur monster can drop Archon Staff. Also WSK is absolutely fantastic for high TC items despite not having boss packs.

Only thing that I find weird is the fact that Blood Temptress in Icy Cellar doesn't appear to be capable of dropping Archon Staff while ones in Frozen River can. I do think this is just drop calc error and it actually refers to ones in Icy Cellar, but I hit Frozen River too, I'll just add hork to those things, just in case. Guess I'll have to add halls of Pain as well, as there's metric ton of Unholy Corpses.

So there's some routing changes, but I'm really happy with how this turned out to be.

 

[ziambe]

Back home now, here's the data I extracted from atma regarding qlvls (TC's), if you wanna identify 'near misses':

Edit: near misses from today's run: Bloodlord Skull in frozen river. Can't really see if it was from a frozen abominable or rot walker and...

Spoiler: Horked on WSK 1

Well that was a surprise! I believe I have now found every weap87 except Unearthed wand and Hydra bow...

Also a 2nd eth Headstriker and 4th Highlord's. it was a great night!

 

[ziambe]

Some thoughts this morning...

• Have you noticed how these mobs are the woe of 1.08? Far more dangerous than dolls imo. I've had NDE's with as few as 2!

Spoiler

tldr: Watch out!

• There is a weird effect with monster shrines in WSK 1/2/3:

Spoiler

Invisible, Unkillable and can walk through walls. If you change floors and come back, you will also get a error but D2 somehow won't crash...

• You asked about keeping souls stable to afk...I really have almost no trouble with this. ever. Here is a screenshot of an area pretty typical of what I use:

Spoiler

Sitting here already more than an hour without interruptions - including lunch Maybe I am wrong in assuming, but you are running TCP/IP right?

This morning's near miss: Winged Harpoon
Other highlights: 2nd Eaglehorn, Arreat's, another SOJ, whole bunch of TC3s which I stopped picking up

 

[ziambe]

2nd run in today: Scissors Suwuyyah from Unholy warrior in HoP
Other notables: 4@6mf SC

and the 1 in 10K rare class specific that I just cant avoid picking up:

fun for twinking I guess thanks to lvl 30 req

 

[frozzzen]

I have drop from super unexpected source, but nowhere as good as yours:

Spoiler

I'm really not sure why would I ever do TCP/IP thingie. Because you can use PC for something other than D2 or player command? If that's the case then nah, I don't like it much. Also this is my map and config for souls not spreading. It's semi stable, but I can't just go to work and leave PC up because it does mess like once in 2 hours for sure. I have similar corner to your screenshot so will try it there.

Spoiler

Spoiler

Idk, will see about it. Really, why TCP/IP?

 

[ziambe]

I'm really not sure why would I ever do TCP/IP thingie.

Eeek! Because you need to run /p5 at least to reduce the chance of no drop! This is huge!

Also I play in windowed mode and in non-tcp games if I click off the window, the game will minimize and 'pause' (im sure this is an OS-thing rather than d2).

In a tcp-ip game, the game can run minimized without pausing and once I have enough stacks I can add mules to buff up drops

 

[ziambe]

Last run for the day:

Thunder Maul on WSK 1 from rot walker
Diadem on WSK 2 from Greater Hell spawn
Shadow Plate in HoP from Unholy warrior

Notable finds: Schaefer's and a Mal rune! Finally found a stormshield too.

 

[frozzzen]

Eeek! Because you need to run /p5 at least to reduce the chance of no drop! This is huge!

Also I play in windowed mode and in non-tcp games if I click off the window, the game will minimize and 'pause' (im sure this is an OS-thing rather than d2).

In a tcp-ip game, the game can run minimized without pausing and once I have enough stacks I can add mules to buff up drops

note to self: shop helm/armor of the ages with Sols so it doesn't wear off for longer stretches of afking.

I was considering some of these things, but when doing self MP in longer games I sometimes get Unhandled Exception: Access_Violation (C0000005) error which crashes the game and makes me hate myself.

It would also mean that I'd have to do set of HF rushed characters for 1.08 self MP. On the flip side, I'm playing a lot with pathing and pack spawn manipulation. So far I can fairly reliably force game to spawn frenzytaur bosspacks in hell pits, I have a place in Ancient's Way where I can spawn double, sometimes tripple bosspack in one area and WSK 2 with only few of those suicide things. Instead floor is filled to the brim with boars. Your method is probably better in the long term, but I'm not losing this map seed.

I might make a set of HF rushed characters for self MP and do entire procedure on my laptop alongside this, but leveling another barb seems meh, even in 1.07/8 self mp cows. There's also getting another pair of Grandfather swords which is kinda yikes and not really readily available. But I'll put this as possible project for next month or so. To be honest, with your results I'm kinda itching to do it asap, but RL gets in the way. How much of a difference does /p5 do for no drop? Also are mules required to be with you in game, act or zone to simulate higher player settings?

Give screenshot/readout of Schaefer's and your barb setup plz

 

[ziambe]

Give screenshot/readout of Schaefer's and your barb setup plz

I didnt screenshot it because I already have 3-4 from 1.07 racks, but here's an atma ss:

Spoiler

Barb is level 99
90 DEX
157 STR
Rest VIT

• 20 Sword Mastery
• 20 Find Item
• 20 Whirlwind
• 1 pt Berserk
• 1 pt Increased Speed
• 5 Natural Res
• 9 BO
• 1 BC
• Sitting on 23 unused points >.< probably should max BO because Nihla can one shot me if cursed

Gear

• Guillame's (needs new socket)
• 1.08 Highlord's
• 1.07 Crafted 448% ED Safety Colossus Sword (Eth/Hel/open)
  • Spoiler

    
• 1.07 Crafted 487% ED Safety Balrog Blade (Shael/Eth/Shael)
  • Spoiler

    
• 1.07 Gladiator's Bane (needs new socket)
• 1.07 LoH
• 1.07 Blood ring with 31% LL
• 1.07 Mavina's Belt
• 1.07 Gore Rider's

The swords are old crafts from 1.07 in my attempt to get the 500+ ED I kept hearing about. Still never managed...Bone Gutter was originally intended for pindlefarming in 1.10+ but my grail got to -1 before it was needed. Cruel Hew was made specifically for WSM bugging before I knew that CtC amp and DtD works on offhand WW weapons in 1.07 (but not 1.08).

The combo is WSM bugged (hence the hel rune in the CS) so it hits the last ww bp with 40IAS. The helm and body socket were Fervor jewels because I first tried a Frenzy barb (silly me). Just been too lazy to replace them.

Inventory

• 6x 20 Max dmg GCs (1.07)
• 6x 6 Max dmg SCs (1.07)

I have played 1.07 and 1.08 for several years already so have a few completely unused 99's sitting around from having leveled 3.98 javazons in MP cow levels. Also racked for ages and ages for crafts and runes before we even knew about stale runes. And recently farmed billions of gold @ trav for gambling 4 socket magic weapons in 1.07.



Annoying run this morning:

Near miss: Diadem from Death Lord - Throne of Destruction
Besides that, 5(!!) TC84 drops = Great Poleaxe, Vortex Orb, Shillelah, Demon Crossbow and Ghost Spear; all 1 or 2 qlvls short of hydra bow!!

Insane other drops too: 3 shakos, 2(!) eaglehorns, 1 ark. valor, 1 Doombringer

Onwards to lunch!

 

[frozzzen]

That's pretty darn optimized. I just took whatever I had in my 1.07 stashes and winged it. I use 2 x Grandfather because I've never done any serious 1.07 crafting, they have solid one handed damage and are indestructible. Current gear is:

Arreat
HLW
2 x GF
Spirit Shroud
LoH
24% leech ring
fcr ring with dex+
Mavina's belt
Gores

Switch is 2 x Wizzy for 105 fcr breakpoint and couple lr/maxers to hit 75 LR in hell. Unfortunately my barb doesn't have enough Dex to use GFs when forwarded 1.07 -> 1.08 so I'm stuck with PEmeralds in body pieces and forced dex on ring It will be fixed on level 97 but I somehow don't think I'll be staying here that long. Reason I took Spirit Shroud vs Gbane is that with +4 skill on gear I get 53% FI breakpoint. I'm not counting on BC because it lasts 20 sec and is generally worthless.

Got Thunder Maul fail earlier and 2 SoJs in same game, but when comparing to stuff you get I get lowkey depressed I guess player settings do help a lot?

@Pyrohemia I did send you HLW. Hopefully you aren't as rusty that you can't unpack mail and forward it to.. wherever.

EDIT: Scissors Suwayyah from Blood Lord in Abaddon.

 

[ziambe]

This afternoon did not go according to plan at all...

First the bad news:

I am reasonably certain that one of the two eth headstrikers I found was on a merc that got permanently devoured by the Act 4 corpse eaters

Remember me saying that I never have problem collecting soul buffs? Well I ate my words today! I died not once, not twice but three times one hour in to the buffing process! JEESH.

Started my 2nd run at almost 10:30 pm, meaning there would be no time for a third run today. :/

The good news:

It took a while to get momentum going, but once it did, this turned out to be the mother of all runs.

• Shenk started with a little Doombringer
• Nothing in Crystalline or Frozen River. Fairly certain that both of these areas can be removed from the run.
• Perfect roll Gnasher in Icy Cellar - the only good thing ever to come from here :O
• Scissors Suwuyyah dropped in WSK 1 from defiled warrior
• Then 2nd Grandfatherfrom wave 1 Baal - not sure if it was hork or not but I think it was hork
  • Spoiler

    
• Off to Halls of Pain where I start to notice I am getting a SUSPICIOUS amount of eth items this run
  • In this run alone: Eth Goldskin, Azurewrath (kek), Bonesnap, Warlord's Trust, Felloak, Todesfalle, Stormchaser, Atma's Wail, Minotaur, Dark Clan Crusher and Lidless!
• 2 TC3's from a poppable
  • Spoiler

    
• Why Hello there Unholy Warrior!
  • Spoiler

    
• 
• Also Guardian Crown in HoP from another Unholy Warrior

When it rains, it pours!! Leaving game open to do a victory lap in Moo Moo Farm tomorrow morning!

I will sleep well this night!

 

[frozzzen]

Huge congratz. Hope your game is stable enough not to crash

It seems like I'm always trailing behind you on this I've also had best run by far today. I got pretty much every single useful item a game can drop - Shako, HLW, Valk, Arkaine's, SoJ and my first 1.08 Grandfather. Unlike you, Icy Cellar has treated me rather well.



I also agree with you regarding Crystaline Passage/Frozen River. No matter how many runs I did there and ATMA saying those Blood Temptress can drop TC90, I think it's simply not true. We'd see something. Ofc, I'm somewhat partial to that area because of that Sur rune, I think it's time to retire it and focus on TC90 capable monsters only.

Once again huge congratz and hope I can at least win in race to Stormspire

 

[Pyrohemia]

Ziambe, prior to this thread getting a 1.08 doombringer, grandfather, and windforce in one run would be the most absurd luck to end all luck. Congrats on the find!