There was this other thread here where @Gripphon suggested /p7 might not be the way to go:
I guess it really depends on build as well. Haven't tested really, but I think for Java /p7 should be a no brainer because kill speed is a non-issue after a certain point, and efficiency is more about practice and good herding. For other builds though it will be interesting to see some comparisons.
When it comes to just clearing the level quickly, I'm not sure Hammerdin is so bad. The first instinct is it can't be efficient because of the required damage build up, but when herding a lot it should be able to be reasonably quick. The problem is, that's when the cluttering issue kicks in big time. Same goes for many other builds that don't kill instantly.
I think what makes Java, CE Necro, Lightning Sorc so good is the fact that their damage is (1) very high, (2) effective instantly without delay, so no waiting to see drops, and (3) these skills enable you to constantly kill a good amount of stuff while still seeing all the drops.
As opposed to Travincal and other areas, I think it's important to realize that run times actually don't say all that much about efficiency at all. Because of course you can herd the whole cow level and kill everything at once in under 3 minutes, but it's kinda obvious that's not efficient farming (well, apart from the XP). Add to this that run times are very hard to compare, for example a CE Necro will always avoid getting anywhere near the Cow King and thus skip a portion of the map. Java on the other hand will leave quite a few cows alive when density gets too low for LF. Stuff like this is not accounted for in run times. Now you could check XP/minute or something, but ultimately that's not a much better indicator because it doesn't take into account the (very important) ability to see drops.
TLDR: No need to create any pressure with goals regarding run times. On the contrary, overall this could make running less efficient in the end.
Also, regarding cows... We all simply embraced the "fact" they are best ran on p7 without a question. I guess such belief came from bnet because they don't have stationary maps, so it is obviously best for them to really nail it on p7. Also javazon was widely considered as best by far and when she throws 1 javelin, cows are dead etc...
But, by doing some calculations, I am not convinced that p7 is best at all. Comparing things as drop odds per cow in comparison to their extra life because of higher player settings, and including the fact that it takes certain time to get a leg no matter what player settings is used, I came to conclusion that either p5 or p3 are the best for cow running. For necro who clears cow level in 3:15, he needs to nail them in 2:52 on p5 to be as efficient as cows of p7.
Things are getting even better because:
- on p5 you will have less leftover cows because CE will be 25% stronger, which gives more advantage to p5 vs p7
- p5 cows are less dangerous than p7 cows, you will cruise even easier through them
- less cluttering, hence easier spotting of items and less time loss on trying to figure out what dropped
Disadvantage which should be easy to neutralize:
- it is easier to kill Cow King on lower player settings, especially with necro
In theory, p3 could be even better than p5, but this time it depends on a test and how many items players are picking up...
So, I wouldn't be surprised that either p3 or p5 are actually best for cows. I would assume p5 to be better overall than p3, but am not completely sure. What I am almost completely sure is that p5 will smack p7 by quite some margin. Should be tested though.
I guess it really depends on build as well. Haven't tested really, but I think for Java /p7 should be a no brainer because kill speed is a non-issue after a certain point, and efficiency is more about practice and good herding. For other builds though it will be interesting to see some comparisons.
When it comes to just clearing the level quickly, I'm not sure Hammerdin is so bad. The first instinct is it can't be efficient because of the required damage build up, but when herding a lot it should be able to be reasonably quick. The problem is, that's when the cluttering issue kicks in big time. Same goes for many other builds that don't kill instantly.
I think what makes Java, CE Necro, Lightning Sorc so good is the fact that their damage is (1) very high, (2) effective instantly without delay, so no waiting to see drops, and (3) these skills enable you to constantly kill a good amount of stuff while still seeing all the drops.
As opposed to Travincal and other areas, I think it's important to realize that run times actually don't say all that much about efficiency at all. Because of course you can herd the whole cow level and kill everything at once in under 3 minutes, but it's kinda obvious that's not efficient farming (well, apart from the XP). Add to this that run times are very hard to compare, for example a CE Necro will always avoid getting anywhere near the Cow King and thus skip a portion of the map. Java on the other hand will leave quite a few cows alive when density gets too low for LF. Stuff like this is not accounted for in run times. Now you could check XP/minute or something, but ultimately that's not a much better indicator because it doesn't take into account the (very important) ability to see drops.
TLDR: No need to create any pressure with goals regarding run times. On the contrary, overall this could make running less efficient in the end.