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Vessel of Hatred

2017 Winter RFL Signup and Running Thread: 2nd Round

Yeah, RFO scoring system, where 5 Um runes can eat up that one Cham :D
I think this 116.3 barb score had stronger top 5 than all other sets other than top 2, so...
EDIT: it seems 2 other sets are also stronger than it, so I'm wrong.
 
Some statistics regarding RFO and RFL drop rates, expectations etc. under spoiler, also ways for you to estimate your expected RFO score and so on. Who is not interested to know how lucky/unlucky he is, don't click the spoiler.

Area: p3 Travincal (non-hork character)
55% hork barb: divide numbers by 1.597
56% hork barb: divide numbers by 1.608
Average amount of runs done to get qualifier in specified range:

Pul - Cham: 188.13
Um - Cham: 236.54
Vex - Cham: 572.44
Ber - Cham: 1933.95

Q: I have done 2500 runs for RFL, how many qualifiers can I expect to find at average?
A: 2500/188.13 = 13.29

Q: And how many 10+ pointers is that?
A: 2500/572.44 = 4.37

Q: So, I should find 4 or more Vex+ runes?
A: It is not known what will you find, but mathematical expectation is to find between 4 and 5 Vex+ runes for you. How many will you find depends on a luck. Maybe you will find only 1, and maybe you will find 10.

Q: I didn't find qualifier in 1000 runs straight (for RFL), how improbable that is?
A: There is ~0.5% chance for it to happen, or once in 200 sets of 1000 runs done. However, maybe game probability works slightly differently and such black holes are more probable than that, and maybe gigantic lucky streaks are also more probable than what we could expect. We don't know. I'm not expert on a matter though so I won't claim anything.



[highlight]Estimating RFO expected score[/highlight]

RFO is done over 20 hours where all Um+ runes are counter toward the final score. On RFL Pul rune is also considered qualifier, but NOT for RFO. Only info you really need is total number of runs done, or some estimation of it. You could estimate it by knowing your average runtime.

Area: p3 Travincal (non-hork character)
Expected score on 1000 p3 Travincal runs (if you kill ALL and skip nothing)

Sorc: 40.7005
Barb 55% hork: 64.9987
Barb 56% hork: 65.4464

Further consideration: every 55 runs at average one boss is unbreakably cold immune, and most sorcs skip him. But, do you also skip random minion too here and there? Same question applies for barb. It is not unusual to skip minions here and there because they take too much time to kill. So, if sorc player is pedantic and kills everything except cold immune boss, then he kills at average 11*55-1 minions out of 11*55, aka 604 of 605. If that is the case, then his expected score for 1000 runs is not 40.7005, but 40.7005*604/605 = 40.6332. If sorc player estimates he skips one minion per 10 runs, then his expected score on 1000 runs is 40.7005 * 109/110 = 40.3305.

But, to simplify things, lets pretend this precise estimation is not needed (you could do it for yourself based on your own experience, only you know how often do you skip minions in Travincal.

Q: I did 2500 runs with sorc on p3, what is my expected RFO score?
A: 2500/1000 * 40.7 = 101.75

Q: Over 100? Isn't that a little bit high?
A: RFO is not MFO. On MFO getting over 100 score is a big thing, in RFO it is rather a standard. If you wanna high score in RFO, aim for 150+.

Q: What should my average time be to have expected score of 150?
A: 150/40.7 = 3.686, aka you need to be able to do 3686 runs in 20 hours, that translates into ~19.53s average runtime for a sorc. Or, if you are a barb with 56% hork, then *1.608 = 31.41 s.

Q: What about 200 score?
A: Unless you are some kind of a magician, you can't have expected score of 200. It requires you to be able to have average time with sorc ~14.65 s or with 56% hork barb ~23.56 s. Also assuming they kill everything and skip nothing.

Q: My average runtime with sorc is 24s. What is my expected RFO score on 20 hours of playing?
A: 20 hours = 72000 seconds, 72000/24 = 3000 runs, 3000/1000 * 40.7 = 122.1

Q: I suck in math.
A: Me too, but luckily I have a calculator.
 
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Thanks for the calculations. Or maybe not. You'll know after Thursday, I will know after1:40 hour more of doing Council.
 
Actually, Um+ regarding level of a rune, so Um, Mal, Ist, Gul... all calculate for RFO. Only Pul does not.
Vex+ aka Vex-Cham means Vex, Ohm, Lo, Sur...
Ber-Cham means Ber, Jah and Cham.
 
Tested across 206 runs how many minions do I skip, more precisely how often do I skip them. Apart from cold immune boss I skip by default (once in 55 runs), I also skipped 13 minions in those 206 runs, so overall I tend to skip 1 minion every ~12 runs. Kind of expected value around 10 since that seems to be closely to optimal skipping pace of those minions who tend to be ugly (aka having still full hp and running around, choice is either to hunt him down for a few seconds or use those few seconds to go start a new run and nail 11 new minions faster). But, as a result, I also kinda lose 1 run every 132 runs I do (aka I skip 11 minions by then). Not really meaningful value for anything, just a fun fact. To put it into numbers, on 1000 runs I kinda "lose" 7-8 of them. And since single run is potential of 33 Chams... yeah!

I do wonder do you guys tend to be very pedantic and really go nail all of them stubbornly, or you also take freedom of skipping those who tend to be ugly to kill :D
 
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Posting stuff here. Some finds from my first (and probably only batch.)
Code: 
Emerald Small Charm of Sustenance
Small Charm
Required Level: 32
Fingerprint: 0x15d0622c
Item Level: 85
Version: Expansion 1.10+
+12 to Life
Poison Resist +10%

Emerald Small Charm of Balance
Small Charm
Required Level: 32
Fingerprint: 0xeddf7267
Item Level: 85
Version: Expansion 1.10+
+5% Faster Hit Recovery
Poison Resist +11%

Shimmering Small Charm of Fortune
Small Charm
Required Level: 25
Fingerprint: 0x3cf38080
Item Level: 85
Version: Expansion 1.10+
All Resistances +3
4% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items

Small Charm of Vita
Small Charm
Required Level: 39
Fingerprint: 0xce674f25
Item Level: 85
Version: Expansion 1.10+
+19 to Life

Mara's Kaleidoscope
Amulet
Required Level: 67
Fingerprint: 0xea1d2348
Item Level: 85
Version: Expansion 1.10+
+2 to All Skills
All Stats +5
All Resistances +24

Sapphire Small Charm
Small Charm
Required Level: 32
Fingerprint: 0x387471b9
Item Level: 85
Version: Expansion 1.10+
Cold Resist +11%

Chilling Grand Charm of Balance
Grand Charm
Required Level: 42
Fingerprint: 0x199ae37a
Item Level: 85
Version: Expansion 1.10+
+1 to Cold Skills (Sorceress Only)
+12% Faster Hit Recovery

Amber Small Charm
Small Charm
Required Level: 32
Fingerprint: 0x92e607c2
Item Level: 85
Version: Expansion 1.10+
Unidentified
Lightning Resist +10%

Carrion Wind
Ring
Required Level: 60
Fingerprint: 0x891d60b9
Item Level: 85
Version: Expansion 1.10+
10% Chance to cast level 10 Poison Nova when struck
8% Chance to cast level 13 Twister on striking
8% Life stolen per hit
+112 Defense vs. Missile
Poison Resist +55%
10% Damage Taken Goes To Mana
Level 21 Poison Creeper (14/15 Charges)

Expert's Grand Charm of Dexterity
Grand Charm
Required Level: 42
Fingerprint: 0xe0332714
Item Level: 85
Version: Expansion 1.10+
+1 to Combat Skills (Barbarian Only)
+6 to Dexterity
I also got a BK ring but must have put it on a char already so cant find the readout.

I've completed my 20 hours in Travincal. I used 2 chars, a Blizzsorc and a WWBarb, both doing 10 hours apiece. Unlike round 1 of the event, I did get 5 qualifiers in a single batch. Here are the numbers:

BlizzSorc 110 runes 489 runs (0.2 runes per run, 0.18 runes/min)

WWBarb 168 runes 413 runs (0.4 runes per run, 0.3 runes per min)

The stats are abit misleading in terms of qualifiers. Buts that's the RNG for you. I am most happy that neither of them died. I did take extra care with gear selection. TGods, RF and Hellmouth for Sorc (thx to Gripp for Hellmouth suggestion), CoH for both Sorc and Barb. I must say that CoH (from a HC melee perspective) is IMHO superior to Fortitude. +2 skills, LL, resists, +strength, %DR (rather than Integer DR, don't know which is better), damage to demons and undead, it's all good. In theory and on paper, things are in favor of Forti but in practice, CoH was way better. I did not have one NDE with CoH but when I used to have a WWer wearing Forti, there were some very hair raising experirences (life bulb would do the yoyo thing) and that ultimately led to deeds.

And I know I'm going to get some stick about this next gear piece but I'm gonna say it: I used a Raven Frost on the WWer.
'But Dave, the RF adds cold damage, shattering corpses' I know.
'But Dave, being chilled lets you whirl slower, meaning more hits on Council members'. I know.

However I have deeded to these guys before and I know it was because I was chilled. There was a HF boss in there (I know RF doesn't help against HF) but my Barb was also taking cold damage from some Council member and due to that unfortunate combo, my Barb was moving very slowly. And then for some reason they all disengaged, scattered and left me in the middle, whirling air, while hurling bolts at me. Nek minit, Deeds. I wasn't going to take that risk again. And so, Raven Frost.

For my sorc I don't think I abandoned a single run unless they scattered or were split in 2(one group on the balcony, one group insidee the temple). But for the WWer, Conviction bosses were an immediate restart and a Might Aura boss + Fana or + Conviction was also a re-start. Otherwise we went for it.

My run times are pretty lol but then again, both of my runners are still breathing, and that is of course the most important.
 
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Just how much harm does Ravenfrost actually do?

Allow me to answer this. First harm is that CBF thing that makes chilled ww impossible, but it is not that important. Second harmful effect is that corspe shatter, minions have 20% chance to be shattered upon kill. To compare it to standard non-cold damage barb, we should include the fact barb's merc carries cold damage in Reaper's and by my tests, 1 second cold duration Reaper's at average shattered 1 corpse per 4 runs. Ravenfrost would shatter 2.2 corpses per run at average.

By these numbers, standard barb has 10.75 corpses to hork per run, while Ravenfrost barb has 8.8. How big of a difference does that make? Taking into account that hork is automatically p7 which means 1.1111x more effcient than standard kill, we get to these numbers for a 56% hork barb:

Standard barb at average "kills" 17.689 minions per run.
Ravenfrost barb at average "kills" 16.476 minions per run.
Ravenfrost barb is ~ 1.074 times less efficient runner. To translate into concrete numbers, if Ravenfrost barb has 40s runtimes, standard barb needs ~42.94s runtimes to be as efficient aka can afford ~3 seconds of more laziness to be as efficient as Ravenfrost barb.

In the end, difference is rather small, but it exists. If someone can't really do without Ravenfrost, he might consider using it without much drawback. He will be less efficient, but in some normal limits.

Advantage is it offers nice AR bonus, however by my calculations, it is not really much profitable to go above 4500 AR with the somewhat maximum potential at 5k. Why? Because AR is useless against 8 out of 11 minions (ignore target defense) and after 5k AR bonus into Strength and damage is more welcomed for faster running, also few points to Zerk to have solid chance to hit against physical immune boss.
 
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Gripphon said:
I do wonder do you guys tend to be very pedantic and really go nail all of them stubbornly, or you also take freedom of skipping those who tend to be ugly to kill :D
Click to expand...

I often do the stubborn thing (except for killing the cold immune), but I always feel very stupid when I do. ;)

Just finished my set as well. As far as interesting finds go I'm not too tidy about keeping different stashes etc., just kept track of these:

7x RBF: 5/3 p, 3/3 p, 4/3 p, 5/4 c, 3/3 c, 3/3 l, 5/5 l, 5/4 f RBF
Skillers: Druid Elemental, Pala OA, Pala DA, 2x Pala Combat, Barb Masteries (no useful secondary stats on any though)
15ias/23ed jewel
2x Thunderstroke (4/189, 4/183)
Shako
2/17/6mf sc
10fr/9life sc
15@ gc
2x HLW
+2 pala combat/10 FCR/@ rare amu <-- in particular happy about this one, crafting never got me a good one for Hammerdin.

Plus lots of "good but not quite amazing" jewelry.

Quite happy with the loot, especially a few of the skillers I was still looking for.

Did the last 30 minutes with Barb for a change. Not very efficient, run in this video is about 1m30s. Gear is OK I think. Maybe I shouldn't use the stair case trick, no?

 
finished my set! did about 11 hours on ww barb with a total of 550 runs (only barely more efficient than @ffs :cool: ) and 9h on sorc with about 700 runs. big problem was that i grew bored to quickly, picked up all kinds of loot and rerolled charms all the time etc...

notable finds i remember:
perfect Nagelring, 7mf charm with 10 poison resist, a bunch of much needed skillers (particularly poison & combat). would have liked to find maras, but no luck :(
 
@Gripphon I also kill all enemies except for the unbreakable CI. Maybe I should indeed better leave some alone at times, since some leftover stragglers slow me down a lot.
 
Actually decided to take new step and make this. It actually does make difference, now merc is competent enough to kill something on his own while I pick items up. So not bad improvement at all. What else to do with Cham runes, right.

Code: 
Steel Shade
Armet
Defense: 517
Durability: 13 of 13
Required Level: 67
Required Strength: 99
Fingerprint: 0x67bf7304
Item Level: 86
Version: Expansion 1.10+
8% Mana stolen per hit
+130% Enhanced Defense
Replenish Life +15
+10 Fire Absorb
Cannot Be Frozen 
Ethereal
1 Sockets (1 used)
Socketed: Cham Rune
 
Cham Rune
Required Level: 67
Version: Expansion 1.10+
Weapons: Freezes target +3 Armor: Cannot Be Frozen Shields: Cannot Be Frozen
 
Ok, I finished my first batch. This will also be my only batch, as I only would be able to do some 6 - 8 hours max in second set, and also because I don't feel like doing Travincal anymore. I ended up doing 2911 runs, which equals to an average time of 24.7 seconds. Definitely better than I thought in beforehand, but too bad I only got into sub 24s runs too late to really make a difference.

I found 5 grailers, among which the Highlord's I really wanted, so that's good. O yes, and I had one of these once:

View attachment 4926

Quite a lot of triple drops, but only once I got 4 runes in one run. Did you guys get a lot of those?

Good luck to those still running. I'll send my results in a bit.
 
T72on1 said:
@Gripphon I also kill all enemies except for the unbreakable CI. Maybe I should indeed better leave some alone at times, since some leftover stragglers slow me down a lot.
Click to expand...

If we lose like 3 seconds to catch straggler every 15 runs, that basically would add 0.2 seconds of runtime to our average which is kinda insignificant, but if we skip them, then by some math (assuming we autoskip that cold immune boss) it turns out we saved ~0.006968 x avg.time of our runtimes. Since we need to save 0.2 seconds or more, this means that any sorc which is slower than ~28.7 seconds has more profit by chasing them all. But my assumption of 3 seconds could be wrong, it could be only 2 seconds, though definitely seems more than that.

So, by math, we all profit more by skipping those stragglers :D
But not really important, however it does make for more relaxed running which could make us more efficient on a long run. Kinda cool for players like me who try to squeeze every nanosecond out of running.

Also gratz on sub 25s running, 3k runs is good amount to farm good stuff.
 
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