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The PvP Thread

Re: The PvP Thread

Fuzzy definitely not last. Although Fireclaw druid is kind of mystery to me. But, no awesome avoid abilities as fuzzy and no megaspeed and defense as wolfbarb makes him weaker than both in my eyes.

There is one build that is worse than all here - barb singer. Don't get me wrong, singer can kill and can do damage, can tank and all that, but once you figure out how to play against him, he becomes worthless. Even Fireclaw druid has fine chance of winning in few matches, but singer has zero chances against any build from the table. He is ok against opponents who just cast spells, literally. You tele next to him, start spamming war cry, he tries to cast spell but fails due to stuns, tries to tele out but fails as well. Singer kills him or at least damages him badly. Nice theory. Once opponent figures out all he need to do is walk a little away from spamming singer to get free and to fight back, suddenly everything is different. Unless opponent has 500 hp or something, you can't kill him. + war cry is blockable, costs a lot of mana, deals rather low damage and takes long to start stunning opponent. Tried it, terrible build. Might work against players who don't know to walk away, but once they learn that, I can throw that singer to garbage. Or to PvM, that is the only place where that build belongs. Ok, he can be fine as HP and defense boost stick for team in team battles.
 
Re: The PvP Thread

Wait, there is an official nulio version of the spreadsheet now? Why was I never informed of this? <_<

1. Fireball (ES): 252
2. C/C Trapper: 230
3. W/S Trapper: 223
4. Fireball: 223
5. Bone (B): 220
6. Bone (V): 219
7. Orb (ES): 189
8. Windy (B): 185
9. Rabies: 184
10. Windy (V): 182
11. Smite/FoH: 176
12. Light (ES): 174
13. Smite/Hammer: 171
14. Hammer/FoH: 171
15. Smite: 168
16. Ghost: 163
17. Blizzard: 155
18. Fire: 150
19. Orb: 150
20. BvC: 146
21. Hammer: 146
22. Bowazon: 141
23. BvA: 141
24. Poison: 138
25. LF/CS: 131
26. WW/LS: 121
27. PJ/CS/Bow: 114
28. Charger: 112
29. Kicker: 104
30. Fuzzy: 86
31. Wolf: 82
32. FC: 73

This is highly skewed in some parts because I firmly believe:

1) Any class that walks and doesn't kill you in one hit (Rabies) or have obnoxious range (Bow) can just get kited around indefinitely until they make a mistake.

2) ES makes you immortal if you don't die in one hit due to your ability to stall for life/mana regen while also depleting your enemy's potions.

3) Lag makes most barbarians worthless.

4) There are no good paladin players in SPF.

Obviously you can get instagieb'd by charger and stuff if you are out of position, but that applies to almost all builds in general since most are built around burst damage.

(Shizuru and Lucia still best builds in SPF in spite of what chart says.)
 
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Re: The PvP Thread

Why am I even doing this...? Anyway, here it is. Sorcs OP. Easy to use with high ranged burst and/or sustain.

7tUCFfz.png


Best:

1. Fireball/ES
2. Fireball
3. Blizzard
4. c/c Trapper
5. Block Necro
6. Foh/Hammer
7. ww/LS
8. Block Windy
9. Vita Necro

No one cares about doubledigit characters anyway (details in chart).
/bias /rushjob /fail

1/2 spreadsheets done
 
Re: The PvP Thread

OK, my table is here, do not take any of my numbers there as offense to some char, I clearly underestimated firesorcs according to your results :)

View attachment 5702

Anyway:
1. Bone vita
1. Bone block
3. WW/LS
3. Windy block
5. Windy vita
6. BvA
7. BvC
8. C/C trapper
9. Smite/Hammer
10. Hammer

also: shame on me, I am not able to make better image, but by clicking on him is OK :)
 
Re: The PvP Thread

There won't be any offense taken to any char, it's always interesting to view other peoples opinions. It is just natural not everyone will share thoughts about some character. It depends what characters we took into consideration, our experience playing with them etc...

I do have few comments about your table. For example bowazon vs fuzzy (FC might be here as well), vs wolf, bvc vs bva. For bowazon, it depends how fast she runs and how fast fuzzy and wolf are, but generally if they are anywhere near bowa movement speed, bowa can't do a thing against them. She can shoot arrows before they approach her, but they will close a distance fast. After that, unless she is considerably faster, she can't do anything. She can't outdamage them with jab, and she definitely can't use bow switch cause they will just kill her almost instantly. Wolf barbs are easily faster than bowas, and our one fuzzy in SPF is just impossible to beat due to d/a/e and max block on top of that, he will simply get to you. And then, they will just namelock-walk with you, they don't have to do anything else to win a match. Very similar to smiter vs bowa match, once you get to her she is dead meat.

BvC 5 vs 5 BvA. From my experience this is hardest possible match for BvC (ok, BvB is hardest, but BvA is 95% like BvB). I made zerker barb, it's pretty much like BvA (has ww, max block etc), but with weaker ww and stronger zerk using phase blade instead of eth berserker axe. With that barb I just rampaged over any BvC I encountered with ease, even used zerk for fun to kill them. Also saw other BvA's easily defeating even much better geared BvC's. Don't know, I've put 1 for BvC in this match cause from my experience he just can't win. All he can do is pray for luck for his hits to magically pass the block every time. Or BvA should really mess things up to lose the match. All he must do is whirl after all.
 
Re: The PvP Thread

I have other experience with amazons Grip. If you can hit a running amazon depends mainly on quickness of your attack and her speed. For example a barb will never hit a running amazon with 9 fpa berserk if she has at least 110 frw, no matter how fast the barb is (in a perfect environment, no lag, desynch etc). Because by the time he swings she's gone. I have dueled vs amazons with faster attacks such as fury, feral rage and maul and it's still almost impossible to hit her. She'll run until you swing to the air and then she has enough time to switch and fire one arrow or attack with lfury etc. There you have to use a 4-5 range weapon such as tomb or botd. Close the distance with shield setup and when near her switch and spank her with the pole. Even then a good Amazon will have a chance, because she'll desynch and what not. So in these duels I would give her something between 3-4, at the very worst 2. :)
 
I did not saw any BvA before and I thought that max block have only BvB so ok, bad numbers from my side
bova vs this melle build, I do not know her chances but even aproach could be quite deadly for this builds but big pool of life should save them, other think is that if you are just dueling you can use enigma on bowazon, it will give you enough advantage to beat this builds even with really bad FCR breakpoints
and yes, pyros dodger was really fast even for some slower casters but that setup is probably sacrificing some amount of life so you will have problems with other melee builds :)
 
Delsy said:
Re: The PvP Thread
She'll run until you swing to the air and then she has enough time to switch and fire one arrow or attack with lfury etc.
Click to expand...

I would totally like to see this in practice. Also, desynch will work for bowa as much as it will work against her. Those running chars desynch as well, and she might end shooting with bow at someone who is smacking her without her knowing it.
 
The way you guys are talking about the fuzzydodger build makes it seem as though this or this is a usual occurrence.

Bowazons are actually really hard to catch even if I can run faster than them due to specifically stacking 1.07 Mav's Belt + Enigma + Cat's Eye alongside normal circlet + boots + charms. Even a 4-frame attack will frequently whiff due to their high run speed. A lot of that could be ping lag, though, as I can't remember when I was last chasing bowazons on my own host with my fuzzy.
 
Bowa with enigma... it's possible. In that case I say bowa should be able to 10-0 fuzzy if player is playing patiently and staying away from the danger. She will run faster, can teleport away... her damage will be crap and she will need many arrows and match will last long, but fuzzy is then battling uphill battle, big time. But that is not typical bowa anyway. Someone has enigma in stash when playing bowa? Asking out of curiosity. I've never seen bowa with enigma, just some hybrid Nagisa had.
 
Considering that a fast runner can hit a couple of blows on a 8-frame sorc, any bowazon who just slapped on an enigma would have a between 14 (50% fcr) and 19 (0% fcr) frame cast rate and would be an easy kill. 50% fcr assumes 1.07 valk and two rings, which is still a significant investment in the enigma-bowa build.

My V/T paladin wears enigma and with a 13 frame cast rate I never teleport as it is too slow to be safe in pvp.
 
Amazons can easily stack frw and most will do it as it is a vital part of their defense. But I see now. 5k hp bear with dodges, that's definitely an uphill battle even for the best of bowazons. :D If he uses long range 2h weapon on switch, I would agree it's almost, if not an impossible duel.
 
New PvP table here:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/zpe321vvjy3vrsl/PvP.Table.V1.zip

I added a PvP Average column that ignores blank (or zero value) cells. Now if we leave a cell blank or later decide that we don't want to value a duel (by just using zero) that doesn't mess with the ranking.

I also added an auto-updating final ranking table. My precious <3

Please test it and have fun!

Edit: And here is my table. I suck, etc.

28wpbt0.png
 
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Nuliotable best and most realistic table ever!

Anyway, I took points from all presented tables to get current total and average score for every build.

Build / Total points / (average points)

1. Fireball (ES) 1102 (220.4)
2. Fireball 1031 (206.2)
3. Bonenec (block) 1027 (205.4)
4. Bonenec (vita) 1018 (203.6)
5. c/c trapper 1008 (201.6)
6. Windy (block) 968 (193.6)
7. w/s trapper 942 (188.4)
8. Hammer/FoH 930 (186)
9. Light (ES) 918 (183.6)
10. Smite/FoH 906 (181.2)
11. Blizzard 905 (181)
11. Windy (vita) 905 (181)
13. WW/LS 896 (179.2)
14. Orb (ES) 868 (173.6)
14. Smite/Hammer 868 (173.6)
16. Poisonnec 862 (172.4)
17. Smiter 824 (164.8)
18. Ghost 816 (163.2)
19. Hammerdin 806 (161.2)
20. BvC 794 (158.8)
21. BvA 764 (152.8)
22. Orb sorc 738 (147.6)
23. Rabies 721 (144.2)
24. Bowazon 704 (140.8)
25. LF/CS 691 (138.2)
26. Fire druid 621 (124.2)
27. Charger 605 (121)
28. Kicker 596 (119.2)
29. PJ/CS/Bow 565 (113)
30. Fuzzydodger 420 (84)
31. Wolfbarb 418 (83.6)
32. Fireclaw 368 (73.6)

We want moar tables. Gogogogogo people
 
nulio said:
Re: The PvP Thread

With the non-existing improvements on my host after my ISP upgrading I was talking with Gripp and we had an idea.

What about some of us jumping in and rent a dedicated host for PvP?
I'm assuming many things but I'd say a VPS would allow having a D2 host 24/7.

Before I start researching stuff, do any of you have experience with VPS? Or just running D2 in virtual machines?

Because I already have many questions:
- VPS allow what kind of OS?
- D2 runs in linux in a flawless manner?
- Does anybody has a spare d2 license?
etc

Assuming something like 1GB memory, 20GB disk space, 2cpu threads, dedicated IP, 2000GB(out) and unlimited(in) is more than enough for this it would be really cheap. Only costs 20$ a month, which is nothing if we chip this by 10 of us.

Maybe even having it stream some of the duels.
Click to expand...

Bump on the idea.

- I've seen VPS with both Linux and Windows. Linux ones tend to be cheaper.
- I've read that D2 can work nicely in Linux.
- Question about spare D2 license still stands.
- Does any fellow PvPer (or really nice PvMer) has experience with Linux can test installing and hosting? (RAM needed, stability of the client, stability as a host, etc)
- Same question but for working with VPN/VPS...
- Found some options, the first one is really cheap with Linux and considering 256Mb RAM is enough.

https://www.atlantic.net/promotions/vps-up-to-30-percent-off/
https://www.linode.com/pricing
http://www.ukvms.com/
http://www.intovps.com/
 
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