Arrested Development Mafia Game Thread

[IWantToUseNumbersInMyName]

I like scumbers. It has an awesome ring to it, and I feel if I were to have to choose a new forum handle, that would absolutely be it.

Okay ... did the game seriously just spend an entire day talking about what to do about the private convos? Any publicly agreed strategy will be useless for the town since scum will by default know what is going on. Use or don't use the thing as you see fit. Mass claiming pairs sounds like the worst idea I've ever heard of.

Also, I tried to engage my partner in conversation, but the mod went and answered my question aimed at my partner. I had a clever plan to try and feel out my partner and BPC just had to step in and answer the question and rob me of my read. Gah!

Also... I think the implication, Pharphis, is that the game might as well start with your name in the dead list since you're likely to die quickly?

In any case, Drixx, the most natural reading of your words, given the context used, made it certainly sound like your primary point was about our strategy regarding utilization of the QT's. The mass claim point seemed to be purely a secondary consideration. Such silly things people think are scummy.

Sathoris, if you're telling the truth(which, luckily, since it's just you, we don't know)and you're town, I kind of hate you a little bit right now. Even if you are lying about your partner(for whatever reason), forcing the hand of everyone else by exposing that information is pretty crappy. I still think pyro's nearly baseless arguments in favor of revealing pairings are scummier than your partner claim, but you just rocketed up the suspicious list for me, for what that's worth.

Unvote: Bad Ash
Vote: Pyrotechnician

Speaking of BA:

You do realize there is actual context behind what I said right? Or do you not care?



So an opinion has to be blatantly stated for it to be shared? If you had to guess based off of my posts where I stand in revealing or not revealing QT partners what would you think the answer is? Cause, I'm pretty sure, you'd be right! Shocking I know.

Anyway, I am torn between voting. Not sure I'll be around rest of the day, but will try to re-download tapatalk since I still only have forum runner.

On the one hand I have my QT partner (hmm, where do I stand on naming them or not numbers?) who isn't interested in trying to leverage an aspect of the game that could be beneficial to the town, and this is why I think they are scum.

On the other hand is one of the worst reasoning votes of all time by phar who doesn't even know who said what made him vote and if he did he didn't even read what the point was in the first place.

Vote: pharphis

I actually asked a related question earlier, and only FoE responded. He said he, and several other players from what he knew of their styles, would be more likely to engage with their QT partner so as to manipulate them, rather than ignoring the QT. I find myself agreeing with him about that(which is amazing, because I feel like I never agree with FoE). You however feel the opposite? Marginalizing the QT is scummier to you? Care to explain why?

 

[thefranklin]

So you think that claiming pairings is bad, but revealing yourself as vanilla is good?



While mafia can intentionally break-up mini mason pairs, it is not without risk as it means they are going to get more scrutiny for being part of a "whole pair. At the end of the day mafia know up to 3 pairs and atleast 2 pairs (assuming 3 mafia). I'd rather town knows all 7 pairs then mafia know 2-3 and town knows 1 each.

So i'll reveal my pair and force more hands. Fred is my partner.

How exactly does revealing your pair "force hands?" And I would put good money on either you or Sath is scum.

 

[Drixx]

To all the "no pressure" comments, I present a rebuttal: Day one lynches are generally random unless some kind of major slip happens, and going into the final few hours of the day as the vote leader, with no case made but the votes sitting there constitutes pressure on day one. The reason is simple inertia. Since there is generally nothing concrete to motivate folks to swap their votes, what ends up happening is that late in the day people just pile votes onto whomever has the most votes, because otherwise there's a no lynch, and our particular play group decided years ago that lynching is always the right thing to do.

So to all of you saying I had no pressure and therefore should not have responded to the votes on me, you may want to re-consider what constitutes pressure at the very beginning of the game. You know what I am saying is exactly how our day start games always play out. At this point with 4 hours left, it would take a slip of monumental proportions to move the inertia off me and onto someone else.

 

[thefranklin]

Using the fancy physics word, inertia.

You also post enough where we can take apart your quotes and find something scummy. Like, say, post 82 where you state that a dead Sath would break a town to town pair. But what about Sath's partner? Are you speaking for their alignment?

 

[Goryani]

Probably an overreaction by me, but their approach to the QT thread. Half of it I agree with and half of it I don't and it's the part I don't that I don't think I like.

You don't like it, or you don't like it and you think it's scummy?

If there are 3 anti-town with 11 pro-town, that leaves 8 pro-town to form groups without anti-town members, or 4 groups.
Going off blind luck and in game hints and getting perfect results, anti-town has a 1*0.75*0.5*0.25 -> 9.375% chance to break everybody up in 4 days.

If we tell them the pairings, they have something approaching 100% chance barring other powers, or neutrals, etc.

Why is this a good idea?

Why is keeping pairs secret a goal to be valued more than being able to find scum? Revealing pairs makes every townie better at scumhunting. Keeping pairs secret makes one role better at scumhunting (typically and theoretically - no guarantees the role exists or is partnered with a townie) while making every other townie worse.

Vote Count:

Drixx (1): thefranklin
Bad Ash (1): Pharphis

Uggh. For some reason I thought today was a twilight day.

 

[IWantToUseNumbersInMyName]

How exactly does revealing your pair "force hands?" And I would put good money on either you or Sath is scum.

Not directed at me, but I'm going to answer because I actually used similar words about sathoris(or at least I thought them, it may not have made it into my actual post): It forces hands because IF sath's pairing is purely town, scum now know 3/7-4/7 pairings, rather than 2/7-3/7. That means it's likely they now know more than half the pairings. If their aim were to split up teams "just in case" as it were, they can now shoot semi-randomly(not targeting themselves, their own partners, sathoris, or goryani) and would be guaranteed to split up 1/4-1/3 of the remaining unknown pairings, rather than being guaranteed to split up 1/5 to 1/4. He has forced our hands, as it were, by both increasing the effectiveness of scum actions, AND by diminishing the value of the knowledge in the event we don't all share today.

 

[Bad Ash]

Bad Ash, why would you not talk in your QT? You can choose to ignore whatever your partner says (or share his posts in here and bring it to our attention why you dislike what he said. Is that allowed btw? To post QT contents..) and simply keep on talking to him.

Also why must we know that you won't be talking in your QT? Will you inform us if you change your mind and start posting in your QT again?

What do you personally think the point of the QTs are?

Btw Tapatalk is back and is amaaaazing compared to forum runner.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

 

[Drixx]

Like, say, post 82 where you state that a dead Sath would break a town to town pair. But what about Sath's partner? Are you speaking for their alignment?

There's a broader context than just that post; however. I don't know Sath's alignment (you'll note I use the word "if" a lot), or the alignment of his partner. What I do know is that the mafia must know the composition of at least 2 tables, and more likely three of 7, meaning that with just the few claims we've seen, if those people are town the mafia now has all the info they need to play out whatever strategy they choose.

The town; however, gains no benefit whatsoever from this information being in the thread and available. There will be an endless amount of WIFOM involved in trying to extrapolate anything from what they do with their night kills. Some people will inevitably comment on what they think is going on and the scum can change or not depending on which course suits their ends.

Knowing the pairings has almost no potential value to the town and in actual gameplay I suspect it will have a net value of absolutely nothing. The only people helped by knowing that info are the scum who can now play it however they like and leave the town more confused and more in the dark than usual, due to the extra mechanic to account for and the confusion it adds to any logical analysis of interactions, voting, night kills and such when looking through the thread to form reads.

 

[pharphis]

There's a broader context than just that post; however. I don't know Sath's alignment (you'll note I use the word "if" a lot), or the alignment of his partner. What I do know is that the mafia must know the composition of at least 2 tables, and more likely three of 7, meaning that with just the few claims we've seen, if those people are town the mafia now has all the info they need to play out whatever strategy they choose.

The town; however, gains no benefit whatsoever from this information being in the thread and available. There will be an endless amount of WIFOM involved in trying to extrapolate anything from what they do with their night kills. Some people will inevitably comment on what they think is going on and the scum can change or not depending on which course suits their ends.

Knowing the pairings has almost no potential value to the town and in actual gameplay I suspect it will have a net value of absolutely nothing. The only people helped by knowing that info are the scum who can now play it however they like and leave the town more confused and more in the dark than usual, due to the extra mechanic to account for and the confusion it adds to any logical analysis of interactions, voting, night kills and such when looking through the thread to form reads.

What do you make of my claim that sath is lying and gory is my partner? Who do you think is lying and why?

 

[IWantToUseNumbersInMyName]

There's a broader context than just that post; however. I don't know Sath's alignment (you'll note I use the word "if" a lot), or the alignment of his partner. What I do know is that the mafia must know the composition of at least 2 tables, and more likely three of 7, meaning that with just the few claims we've seen, if those people are town the mafia now has all the info they need to play out whatever strategy they choose.

The town; however, gains no benefit whatsoever from this information being in the thread and available. There will be an endless amount of WIFOM involved in trying to extrapolate anything from what they do with their night kills. Some people will inevitably comment on what they think is going on and the scum can change or not depending on which course suits their ends.

Knowing the pairings has almost no potential value to the town and in actual gameplay I suspect it will have a net value of absolutely nothing. The only people helped by knowing that info are the scum who can now play it however they like and leave the town more confused and more in the dark than usual, due to the extra mechanic to account for and the confusion it adds to any logical analysis of interactions, voting, night kills and such when looking through the thread to form reads.

Yup. I hate how I deliberately bring up this topic just so people won't do what they did last time, and start blurting out pairings, and then it happens anyways, and without anyone actually bringing up a tangible benefit to town in spite of me repeatedly asking them to do so.

 

[Goryani]

Let me show you how sharing partners will work out. My partner is Goryani. Who is your partner Zokar?

Sathoris and I are not partners.

 

[Goryani]

Also, the last time this mechanic was in play we were all serial killers. Our arguments were coming from a very different place. We were attempting to sound town, while only having our own interests in mind.

I was non-mafia and wanted to be able to catch mafia so I was in favor of any idea to make it easier. That served my own interests then as it does now (expecting BA's LAMIST comment in 3...2...1...).

Numbers dishonestly analyzed my first post of the game. I questioned why we spent an entire day of the game talking about what to do about the private convos (which encompasses usage, claiming, etc...) and yet he tried to parse me into saying something I didn't.

This is an unusual logical mistake on his part, and I don't think it's a mistake. I think we've finally seen Scumbers make an appearance.

Can you expand on this? I gather this is something based on you knowing Numbers but I'm not following from A to B here.

Also, a huge LOL at me getting voted for showing up to the game and commenting on the massive waste of time, but none of the people saying basically the same thing after me taking any heat whatsoever.

THe others saying basically the same thing are also participating in that giant waste of time. It's one thing to disagree, it's another thing entirely to not participate.

I am more interested in seeing if peoples opinion on claims has changed from game to game.

When I am mafia, the one thing I fear more than anything else is a town mass claim especially Day 1. Thus it is interesting to examine who is opposed to mass claims. I am particularly interested in people who normally favour claiming, in this case not wanting to claim. Some people never want to claim (Noodle, Coju, Gory-2014 edition).

I'm in favor of it. In my QT, I proposed an idea that goes further. Everyone makes a full role claim to their partners in the QT today. Tomorrow, everyone claims QT partners. It's a modified D1 mass claim.

[I don't think my partner liked the idea. My partner pointed out flaws without actually giving an opinion.]

 

[Bad Ash]

I like scumbers. It has an awesome ring to it, and I feel if I were to have to choose a new forum handle, that would absolutely be it.



In any case, Drixx, the most natural reading of your words, given the context used, made it certainly sound like your primary point was about our strategy regarding utilization of the QT's. The mass claim point seemed to be purely a secondary consideration. Such silly things people think are scummy.

Sathoris, if you're telling the truth(which, luckily, since it's just you, we don't know)and you're town, I kind of hate you a little bit right now. Even if you are lying about your partner(for whatever reason), forcing the hand of everyone else by exposing that information is pretty crappy. I still think pyro's nearly baseless arguments in favor of revealing pairings are scummier than your partner claim, but you just rocketed up the suspicious list for me, for what that's worth.

Unvote: Bad Ash
Vote: Pyrotechnician

Speaking of BA:



I actually asked a related question earlier, and only FoE responded. He said he, and several other players from what he knew of their styles, would be more likely to engage with their QT partner so as to manipulate them, rather than ignoring the QT. I find myself agreeing with him about that(which is amazing, because I feel like I never agree with FoE). You however feel the opposite? Marginalizing the QT is scummier to you? Care to explain why?

Nah.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

 

[Bad Ash]

I was non-mafia and wanted to be able to catch mafia so I was in favor of any idea to make it easier. That served my own interests then as it does now (expecting BA's LAMIST comment in 3...2...1...).



Can you expand on this? I gather this is something based on you knowing Numbers but I'm not following from A to B here.



THe others saying basically the same thing are also participating in that giant waste of time. It's one thing to disagree, it's another thing entirely to not participate.



I'm in favor of it. In my QT, I proposed an idea that goes further. Everyone makes a full role claim to their partners in the QT today. Tomorrow, everyone claims QT partners. It's a modified D1 mass claim.

[I don't think my partner liked the idea. My partner pointed out flaws without actually giving an opinion.]

Not sure I connected the dots to why it make a LAMIST comment here.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

 

[thefranklin]

Umm, so scum kills a good PR tonite and tells town tomorrow that their partner was VT? Pass.

Or scum gets a mislynch by claiming the above has happened to a group of two townies?

Ignore lack of spelling and logic, phonestyle

 

[pharphis]

I'm in favor of it. In my QT, I proposed an idea that goes further. Everyone makes a full role claim to their partners in the QT today. Tomorrow, everyone claims QT partners. It's a modified D1 mass claim.

[I don't think my partner liked the idea. My partner pointed out flaws without actually giving an opinion.]

This is strange. I need to wrap my head around it but I don't see it being a good idea for the town. That would give a very high chance of mafia knowing at least one of probably several PRs... unless we all fake claim.. lol. It also makes the partner of whoever dies that night seem highly suspicious by proxy

 

[Sathoris]

Sathoris and I are not partners.

Good, now that we know people lie and people won't talk in their QT and disagree with their QT partner it's pointless to debate about revealing partners let alone actually reveal partners.

What I do know is that the mafia must know the composition of at least 2 tables, and more likely three of 7, meaning that with just the few claims we've seen, if those people are town the mafia now has all the info they need to play out whatever strategy they choose.

If scum now know everything and town can't know anything substantial. Can we move on from the subject or must we drag pairing into every future argument about why someone is scum? Or do random pairings have nothing to do with someones alignment?

What do you personally think the point of the QTs are?

Btw Tapatalk is back and is amaaaazing compared to forum runner.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

To help you scumhunt or sow confusion as mafia. Up to you whether you use it or not.

 

[Goryani]

Lies, my partner is Goryani

Again, not true. Prophetic (or imitation?) but not true.

 

[Sathoris]

Again, not true. Prophetic (or imitation?) but not true.

So your plan.. What objectios did your QT partner have?

 

[Laarz]

Have to wonder if all this partner/qt talk so far is just a way for scum to hide, not sure I see the point of it.