99 theorycrafting and stuff like that

[CRG]

I re-spec'd my Bowazon last night (as planned - she was set up to test Fort/WF setup /w various mercs) after I somehow managed to have the guts to re-roll my Faith 10% Sup. Shadow Bow that was a +1/slvl 12 fanat after the first try. The problem with the initial roll is that it required 70% IAS to hit 7 FPA, where as an slvl 14 or 15 roll would need 65%. Given that I wanted to wear LoH and an IAS-jeweled 07 Valk Wing (30% inherent IAS) as my only sources of IAS, the roll was a problem and required an additional slot - Nos's Coil for the belt - to pick it up. The Coil also required more skill points to be put into Pierce.

Here's what she looks like - LCS screenshot later tonight:

Faith Shadow Bow
Enigma
07 Valk wing, plain IAS jewel (I know, needs replacing)
LoH
Razortail
Travs
20/244 Raven
LL/+STR/res all rare ring (unfortunately I haven't crafted a decent Blood ring to fit this slot)
ML/+DEX/FCR/res all caster craft
CtA - switch
Spirit - switch

Act 2 Might Merc is currently running for the pits - with the Fanat, he's at 5 FPA.

Reapers /w IAS jewel
G-Face - IAS jewel
Duriel's shell - IAS jewel

She's running 156 STR (about 30 hard points), I threw 100 points in Vita to get her to 1.5K life running around, and rest went DEX. AR is 15Kish with no issues about hitting anything.

Skills went with 13 in MS (enough for 20 arrows /w +6 skills), 1 in GA/Strafe, 18 in Crit (71%), 3 in Pierce (slvl 9 = >100% /w Razortail), 10 each in D/A/E for slvl 16 (enough so that you need two skill points to go up an add'l percent) and maxed Valk - there are a few skill points left. This is far different than when going WF/Act 1 merc, mostly due to not needing 20 points in Penetrate.

I went with the Reaper's over Pride per Frozzzen's suggestion (the runeword I initially thought would be the best), as it effectively gives almost a 100 percent overall damage boost when Decrep is activated (Pit monsters range from 15 to 33 percent PDR) - i.e. you're going from doing 66 percent of your normal damage on Skeletons to 117% of your normal damage.

She also has 75% FCR, enough to hit the 68% breakpoint. It's a slow cast, especially when compared with an 8-frame sorc's cast. But it's far, far faster than what a normal zon has. To go up a notch to the 99% breakpoint, I would need to drop the Razortail for an Arachnid's Mesh and swap on a decent LL/res all/FCR ring, and I don't have one that has decent life leech (i.e. >4%) or decent res. I have rings that have two of those attributes, but not all three.

Play is very, very similar to the MF'ing Pit zerker. Teleport close enough pack so that merc lands and activates decrep, fire away, teleport away and repeat. The nice differences I have are the Decoy and slow missiles, and they make for nice crowd control.

I haven't been able to effectively time the average runs yet, but at clvl 92 she's at about 2M/run. I do know that average time is less than my BO timer of 140 seconds. Baal minions in contrast are about 4M a run, and take longer. I know I can get those times down, it just need to get in right mind set, especially when teleporting in Pit.

What I'm curious about is a way to deal with Big D (and perhaps Baal if I run him 97->98). The Merc does well enough dealing with Big D, but Baal has twice the HP, even at /p3 vs. /p7, a 5% better blocking percentage, lower drain effectiveness, duplication, etc. He's nasty.

The best I can come up with is a merc geared as follows:

(Eth) Reapers, Ber'd
G-Face, Cham'd
Rattlecage, fire res/IAS jewel (for 5.5 FPA, otherwise Um means 6 FPA)

That leaves an 80 percent CB percentage. The other option is to go with a Fort for the armor to up the physical damage, but I'm not sure whether that's the right move.

Thoughts?

 

[frozzzen1]

Ber'd eth Kelpie + IAS'd Guil's + some decent armor for making merc overall durable like CoH, would probably be my pick for Baal. You would loose decrep of reaper's or Pride's ED, but for Baal you would be using cta to buff and then switching to Lacerator to throw couple of them to trigger amp on every baal wave. I'd recommend getting beta CtA for this purpose. Longer duration of BO is really needed to do this comfortably.

75% slow shuts Baal completely so he won't have any of his nasty spells available and you will be able to pound him into oblivion along with your merc. 55 CB should be enough, especially when coupled with amp, (I'm fairly sure but someone correct me if I'm wrong) but crushing blow is affected by enemy %DR so this will help immensely in denting his life, especially when he will be standing in place and not moving around. You might want Gorefeet (25% CB to aid your merc, but I'm against it personally. You can test it with strafe. Speaking of Strafe, you should ditch points in Valk and use strafe as alternative damage source. It's great when enemy lines are thinned, especially since you went with 100% pierce. Yes, I'd say go for it in pits as well. It's worth it.

For Diablo you would still go with Guil's + Reaper's + whatever. Lacerator is only good for places where packs spawn close like Baal throne room and not for randomness of CS. Since overall CB will be lower, you might consider using Gorefeet here to assist your merc in CB delivery with strafe.

Since you have 1.07 VW I guess you have set of 1.07 maxdmg charms as well? Looks to me like you have too high ar for that to be true, but if you don't have them, get them. They can also spawn with resists affixes making them very useful overall but fairly hard to find.

Spoiler

Shimmering Grand Charm of Maiming
Keep in Inventory to Gain Bonus
Required Level: 37
Item Version: Expansion
Item Level: 90
Fingerprint: 0x51fa79d
+18 to Maximum Damage
All Resistances +17

Regular charms are just meh comparing to this. Also faith has ITD so it greatly reduces any ar needs. Also remove decoy and slow missiles from hotkeys. They are worthless and only add lots to run times. You need to get around with not using them at all. With zon slow cast rates you don't want to waste time on those, and you might want to use c/i teleports at least to get to pit entrance and on any empty areas on your map if there are any.

HLW would add roughly 10% to your damage output even if IAS is wasted - 30 maxdmg jewel in valk if you use that? Or Cham into VW so you can ditch RF and open ring slot for more leeching. You have shown that you don't mind sticking Cham into merc hat and it would help your character more. You could use two rings to cover 10fcr, mana and life leech what can be very high with only one ring option. Two is easy game on the other hand.

 

[pharphis]

If you use strafe at all and have 100% pierce then you don't need to throw lacerators. Use strafe and as soon as you're able to (after animation is done but arrows are still in the air) you can switch to lacerator if it's on swap. This gives the easiest method of AMPing everything with lacerator aside from actually being a throw barb or swinging fast.

 

[nulio]

Hmm... I have to try that in PvP

 

[CRG]

Ber'd eth Kelpie + IAS'd Guil's + some decent armor for making merc overall durable like CoH, would probably be my pick for Baal. You would loose decrep of reaper's or Pride's ED, but for Baal you would be using cta to buff and then switching to Lacerator to throw couple of them to trigger amp on every baal wave. I'd recommend getting beta CtA for this purpose. Longer duration of BO is really needed to do this comfortably.

This will require some testing. My thought is that my current CtA gives me 140 seconds. Strafe, switch to trigger amp, and then pound away with impunity should clear things before then. I need to really sit down and time/measure things, but minions-only Baal run seems the most efficient right now. If not killing Baal, I can also use Pride.

55 CB should be enough, especially when coupled with amp, (I'm fairly sure but someone correct me if I'm wrong) but crushing blow is affected by enemy %DR so this will help immensely in denting his life, especially when he will be standing in place and not moving around.

Enemy PDR% does affect CB, but only if that PDR% is positive.

You might want Gorefeet (25% CB to aid your merc, but I'm against it personally.

With missile weapons vs. Baal, CB damage is 1/16th of life (i.e. half of what melee weapon vs. him from takes).

Speaking of Strafe, you should ditch points in Valk and use strafe as alternative damage source. It's great when enemy lines are thinned, especially since you went with 100% pierce. Yes, I'd say go for it in pits as well. It's worth it.

I can max MS and Strafe and still have slvl 17 Valk.

For Diablo you would still go with Guil's + Reaper's + whatever. Lacerator is only good for places where packs spawn close like Baal throne room and not for randomness of CS. Since overall CB will be lower, you might consider using Gorefeet here to assist your merc in CB delivery with strafe.

Since you have 1.07 VW I guess you have set of 1.07 maxdmg charms as well? Looks to me like you have too high ar for that to be true, but if you don't have them, get them. They can also spawn with resists affixes making them very useful overall but fairly hard to find.

Spoiler

Shimmering Grand Charm of Maiming
Keep in Inventory to Gain Bonus
Required Level: 37
Item Version: Expansion
Item Level: 90
Fingerprint: 0x51fa79d
+18 to Maximum Damage
All Resistances +17

Regular charms are just meh comparing to this.

I don't actually have any v1.07 damage charms. I got the VW from Disco Neck Ted many years ago via a trade on another to-not-be-named forum, and my other v1.07 stuff (Viscertaunt and Valor) came from Lord Vega. And that charm is just sick.

Also remove decoy and slow missiles from hotkeys. They are worthless and only add lots to run times. You need to get around with not using them at all. With zon slow cast rates you don't want to waste time on those, and you might want to use c/i teleports at least to get to pit entrance and on any empty areas on your map if there are any.

I will play around with that, but I'm slow missiles is great for dealing with Archers in Pits, Gloams in Throne, and Waves 2, 3 and anything LE. right now with my minimal light res and 8% PDR (and 1.5K life), Slow is a lifesaver. Decoy is great in the throne as well for keeping decrep off of my merc.

HLW would add roughly 10% to your damage output even if IAS is wasted - 30 maxdmg jewel in valk if you use that? Or Cham into VW so you can ditch RF and open ring slot for more leeching. You have shown that you don't mind sticking Cham into merc hat and it would help your character more. You could use two rings to cover 10fcr, mana and life leech what can be very high with only one ring option. Two is easy game on the other hand.

This idea I like a lot. The Cham is going to take some work to find (and this build is going to require two more Bers and two Chams...).

 

[CRG]

If you use strafe at all and have 100% pierce then you don't need to throw lacerators. Use strafe and as soon as you're able to (after animation is done but arrows are still in the air) you can switch to lacerator if it's on swap. This gives the easiest method of AMPing everything with lacerator aside from actually being a throw barb or swinging fast.

I have found that MS works better with getting Amp to trigger because you can more easily switch after a single volley or two so that Lacerator is out when arrows first hit. The animation for strafe is too long to do that effectively.

Also, throwing works very well.

 

[pharphis]

I have found that MS works better with getting Amp to trigger because you can more easily switch after a single volley or two so that Lacerator is out when arrows first hit. The animation for strafe is too long to do that effectively.

Also, throwing works very well.

But only the middle two arrows can proc amp iirc, and with strafe you're nearly guaranteed to proc amp whereas with only 2 arrows hitting less targets you'll probably have to switch to repeat the process. I haven't tried it, though.

 

[onderduiker]

The Merc does well enough dealing with Big D, but Baal has twice the HP, even at /p3 vs. /p7, a 5% better blocking percentage, lower drain effectiveness, duplication, etc.

Diablo has 0% drain effectiveness in Hell, while Baal and his clone have 20%. However, mercenaries only apply 25% damage to Act bosses in Hell... and this reduction also applies to percentage Life Stolen per hit, rounding down (so 12% is reduced to 3%, for example).

75% slow shuts Baal completely so he won't have any of his nasty spells available and you will be able to pound him into oblivion along with your merc.

Slows Target has a 50% ceiling when applied to Champion, Unique, Super Unique and boss monsters. Baal has 15% chill effectiveness in Hell, so if any cold length is applied then the combined 65% reduction may be effective.

You might want Gorefeet (25% CB to aid your merc, but I'm against it personally.

Goblin Toe Unique Light Plated Boots have 25% Chance of Crushing Blow; Gore Rider Unique War Boots have 15%; Gorefoot Unique Heavy Boots have none.

 

[CRG]

Ber'd eth Kelpie + IAS'd Guil's + some decent armor for making merc overall durable like CoH, would probably be my pick for Baal. You would loose decrep of reaper's or Pride's ED, but for Baal you would be using cta to buff and then switching to Lacerator to throw couple of them to trigger amp on every baal wave. I'd recommend getting beta CtA for this purpose. Longer duration of BO is really needed to do this comfortably.

75% slow shuts Baal completely so he won't have any of his nasty spells available and you will be able to pound him into oblivion along with your merc. 55 CB should be enough, especially when coupled with amp, (I'm fairly sure but someone correct me if I'm wrong) but crushing blow is affected by enemy %DR so this will help immensely in denting his life, especially when he will be standing in place and not moving around. You might want Gorefeet (25% CB to aid your merc, but I'm against it personally. You can test it with strafe. Speaking of Strafe, you should ditch points in Valk and use strafe as alternative damage source. It's great when enemy lines are thinned, especially since you went with 100% pierce. Yes, I'd say go for it in pits as well. It's worth it.

For Diablo you would still go with Guil's + Reaper's + whatever. Lacerator is only good for places where packs spawn close like Baal throne room and not for randomness of CS. Since overall CB will be lower, you might consider using Gorefeet here to assist your merc in CB delivery with strafe.

After testing this with a Ber'd eth Kelpie/Cham'd G-Face/CoH for Baal and Reapers(IAS)/Rattlecage/Cham'd G-Face for Big D, I'm all-but going to declare this build 99 viable. I agree with the recommendation to go Cham'd Valk Wing/Highlord's and will test out Goblin Toe. The War Trav/HW has the highest average damage without counting CB and the difference between adding and losing Trav for Goblin Toe is about 10 percent, so as long as I get that or better with adding CB (which you will vs. bosses), it's worth it.

 

[espr]

Hit 93 today on my barb, which is the highest I've had a character in many years, so I'm pretty chuffed about that. I'm not sure if I've got it in me to push him to 99, but I'm considering it. Trouble is I do not know if that is remotely feasible with baal and nihl blocked off atm. Ancients can be done at any time of course, but I'm not sure when is the best time, and I don't foresee me ever wanting to give up a pindle portal on this character any time soon.

I can see what my CS run times are like (especially once I find a ber for enigma), but outside of that... is something like pindle or pits to 99-40millionExp a sane option?

For that matter, does the relatively quicker lead up to 98 via baal offset giving up the non-penalized 40 million push to 99?

 

[Delsy]

For some reason if I hit the up arrow it doesn't repeat the previous message when I make a new game (I want to use the players x command). But I see in the videos you are using it just fine. What am I doing wrong?

I didn't want to make a new thread just for this question so I hope it's fine that I asked here. Thanks.

 

[frozzzen1]

Game remembers it only if you type it multiple times. Not sure how many, didn't try, but just spam /players x and uparrow+enteruparrow+enteruparrow+enteruparrow+enteruparrow+enter several times and you will be able to do do it in next game.

 

[Corrupted]

Should do a table where people record the time spent for a given level in CS along with their build and method (seals only, seals+packs, seals+packs+diablo) and possibly which of the vizier layouts you had since it's pretty difficult to quantify otherwise. When I get my hands on my computer again I'll do another hammerdin to 95 or 96 again just for the sake of assembling some data.

 

[CRG]

She's a heck of a lot of fun to play - Baal himself is very slow due to the ridiculous amount of HP he has (even with 80% CB on merc), but the minions go down fast enough (and that allows Rattlecage to be swapped out for Fort).

 

[Gripphon1]

Should do a table where people record the time spent for a given level in CS along with their build and method (seals only, seals+packs, seals+packs+diablo) and possibly which of the vizier layouts you had since it's pretty difficult to quantify otherwise. When I get my hands on my computer again I'll do another hammerdin to 95 or 96 again just for the sake of assembling some data.

I can share some info about that since I did some testing. Leveling from level 95 to 96 with Hammerdin.

First what I tested was is it worth to kill Diablo at all xp-wise.

1. p1 Seals, p7 Diablo as fast as you can.
Result is rather poor I must say.
Is it worth it? No, it's very slow compared to alternative. Poorest of all.

2. p8 Seals, p7 Diablo as fast as you can. ~5950 xp/sec.
Is it worth it? Unless you are much faster runner than me (~74 sec per run like that), it's very poor compared to alternative.

3. p8 RoF + Seals, p7 Diablo.
Deleted data, but conclusion is the same as on upper cases, xp gain is poor compared to alternatives. So overall conclusion is, on level 95 it's not worth it to kill Diablo at all if you are mainly after XP.

4. p8 RoF + Seals vs p8 RoF + Seals without De Seis seal.
I concluded that De Seis seal takes too much time due to him being rather dangerous target, so he is better skipped. Unless you have stable bosspack spawn near De Seis, he might be worth to target, otherwise skip that part of map entirely. p8 RoF + Seals with skipping De Seis is faster (and safer) option.

5. p8 RoF + Seals with skipping De Seis, killing the rest.
140 runs sample, ~1:26.000 avg running time, 7311 xp/sec average. It's 7300-7500 range to be more exact, 7500 when trying to run most efficiently.
7311 xp/sec means it takes you 8.54 hours to level from 95 to 96. For 7500 it's 8.32 hours.

6. p8 RoF + Seals with skipping De Seis, skipping mage champions and extra fast mage boss
Not so popular idea of running. Idea is to skip almost entirely champion packs of mages since they tend to run around and you have to spend too much time killing them and getting rather low xp/sec for it. Tele on them, start to kill them, but once they scatter, skip them. Also totally ignore them if they spawn at tight spaces. When you encounter extra fast mage bosspack, kill minions, stomp the boss. If he starts to run around, skip him, otherwise just kill him. It's really not worth it, he can stall you for 10 seconds with running around and in that time you can kill 2 more bosspacks. Also decide when it is profitable to skip random possessed champion, they also take too much time if you tend to kill them from full hp after you get rid of other champions. Also sometimes skip non-fast mage boss if he runs into crowd, also might take too much time to kill him.

Even though this method doesn't sound that appealing, it's considerably faster than method under 5.). I did 15 runs test to see how much time those monsters actually take.
Runs done: 15, ~1:20.000 avg running time, ~8100 xp/sec.
This means it takes 7.7 hours to level from 95 to 96.

7. p8 CS + Seals with skipping De Seis and RoF, skipping mage champions and fast mage boss
My map is not exactly great for this kind of running cause my bosses are not that well positioned. But still this turned to be fastest leveling option. Idea was to focus on killing as many minions as I can from Seal packs since they spawn with million of them. So you pretty much need map where Visier doesn't spawn with only few minions, but rather with many. Obviously it works nicely. Same principle of running as mentioned under 6.)

Runs done: 40, ~62 sec avg, ~8400 xp/sec.
This means it takes 7.43 hours to level from 95 to 96. That is even faster than my Javazon and litesorc running Lister/Baal.

EDIT:
did another test with paladin level 96 now. Ran the way as explained under 7.)
Runs: 20, 62.5 sec avg, 4217.7 xp/sec. Or it would take roughly 16.13 hours to level from 96 to 97 with that method.

With better map with nice CS bosspack spawn locations, I believe it is possible to hit near or even over 10k xp/sec. Also I used MF equipment in most part, it is possible to up damage by 10% and to run faster like that too. I will probably test how well it goes with new paladin, focusing more on damage and rolling good map for that.

Hopefully my testings and conclusions are helpful.

 

[Corrupted]

Thanks! If only we had more info on lower levels. Personally I always skipped champions unless they were stacked with another pack of sorts. It may be that some of them are worth doing on lower levels though before the level difference penalty really kicks in.
Scared of Seis? Pft, grow a pair. I find that unless you're already amped or he has extra fast/might there's not that much risk jumping him directly if you're 3k+ hp with either doom defiance merc or decent reapers merc. Lawbringer A5 merc is also an option but I dont like the effect on stormcasters.
The problem with RoF packs is that most of them are ssturdy demons so unless they're stacked or undead they're not efficient for exp.
Diablo becomes worthwhile on 96 if your damage is good and you're able to stack hammers. That or you could try a merc with Beta CM if you use such things. What is your damage btw?
I would like to see Blizz/Nova sorcs performance as well - 8-9K blizz obliterates CS packs and 2k nova may be decent enough for seis especially paired with Marrowwalk.

 

[Gripphon1]

Maybe its a good idea to share Hammerdin equipment I've done testing with.

Spoiler

1.13 Shako (Ist rune)
Enigma
1.13 Rising Sun amulet
Hoto
Spirit in Sacred Targe
Arachnid Mesh
Magefist gloves
10 fcr ring
beta BKWB ring
War Travelers

Switch: beta CtA + Spirit

Inventory: 40 MF Gheeds, 7x Combat skillers, rest MF charms with resists etc.

Merc (defiance): Insight, CoH, 1.07 Valk with Cham

Incredibly comfortable running with such equipment. No mana problems, you almost don't need to drink potions. Simply chill out and kill whatever you see. Not the best possible equipment for sure, for start damage can be higher replacing Rising Sun amulet with something else. It's possible to use Prayer merc which works great along with Insight. Also merc with other weapon than Insight is possible option. I choose this one cause it's generally most comfortable to run with. 300+ MF is not bad either.

De Seis wasn't really problem for paladin, but for merc... he tend to be damaged really quickly by those minions if you don't watch out. But generally De Seis is no different than any random Fanaticism pack, it just took too much time being out of route and with no stable bosspack spawn near him to hit more than 1 bosspack going for his seal.

Also I'm questioning the usefulness of defiance merc. Rising defense from 10k to 14k doesn't seem to do much. Perhaps having might merc + your concentrate, or prayer merc, or holy freeze merc makes more sense overall.

Best map would be with huge bosspack spawn in one of the open areas in CS before you hit seal there. Also it would be cool to have same thing in RoF so you can hit multiple packs at the same time. When I will level new paladin, I might roll for that kind of map to see how fast hammerdin can level up. My map IS like that, but has that annoying obstacles there which block hammers and entirely change running strategy in that area. Also might try some other equipment with higher damage output and with less MF.

 

[Corrupted]

Rising Sun is indeed excellent as long as you're skipping Diablo as you can completely ignore your fire res/conviction etc. Insight merc is of course very comfortable and probably the best option when you skip De Seis. 1.09+ Shako/Spirit and proper redemption usage does it for me though.
One thing Seis offers is the extra drops you get from spawning Diablo but this mainly concerns non-set/uniques. Of course your merc will melt against his pack when it has neither defense nor damage reduction (8% hardly counts). Freeze aura is crucial and as such I don't recommend going defiance merc unless you put a Doom on him.
One of the advantages of higher defense/decrepify is that you'll not have your casting interrupted as often due to block animation.

 

[Grape1]

Has anyone tested what's the best setup fo Nihlathak running smiter?

I'm soon lvl 98 with my CS Hammerdin and the plan is to switch to Nihlathak from there on. I'm most curious about the best wep/shield-combo. There seems to be many options. Is Grief that obvious? What about a Ber'd Astreon's? Could that be even better? HoZ or Exile? Something else?

Well, soon I can test it out myself I guess. Would be cool if someone had done this before.

 

[Grape1]

Has anyone tested what's the best setup fo Nihlathak running smiter?

I'm soon lvl 98 with my CS Hammerdin and the plan is to switch to Nihlathak from there on. I'm most curious about the best wep/shield-combo. There seems to be many options. Is Grief that obvious? What about a Ber'd Astreon's? Could that be even better? HoZ or Exile? Something else?

Well, soon I can test it out myself I guess. Would be cool if someone had done this before.

Any thoughts?

After a few weeks break I'm back to some gaming again. I've reached 98 and I just tested what's my exp/hour in p7 CS with Hammerdin. It was a 2,511,141. Roughly 2,5 millions... Long time average would be less, because I tend to pick more stuff I did with this batch of runs. The map has 4 shrines (RoF+CS) and only seal bosses and Diablo were killed (maybe a few now and then if they were near seals..)

How fast Nihlathak runs does 2,5m/hour compare to? I'm starting to debate whether I should stay with CS