The Most Extreme Elimination Challenge Mafia Edition

[Goryani]

Thanks to phartchemist for hosting. Congrats to town. (Don't think I said these earlier)

More thoughts and feedback:
Replay is a nice alternative to a mafia "roleblock" ability. I'd like to see it again. However, the "can't be used to repeat an action with 0 charges left" restriction was too restrictive this game. I think there was a single ability it could have been used on: Morty Liberman's rolecop. Oh, watcher too I guess.

 

[BipolarChemist]

I agree on Replayer. I think a 1-Shot Replayer that can be used to repeat night actions, independent on number of shots left would be much more interesting.

 

[thefranklin]

Could you have gotten another nk with the combination of replay and bus driver?

On the limited shots thing, that would only be useful for mafia on mafia action?

Ignore lack of spelling and logic, phonestyle

 

[pharphis]

Thanks to phartchemist for hosting. Congrats to town. (Don't think I said these earlier)

More thoughts and feedback:
Replay is a nice alternative to a mafia "roleblock" ability. I'd like to see it again. However, the "can't be used to repeat an action with 0 charges left" restriction was too restrictive this game. I think there was a single ability it could have been used on: Morty Liberman's rolecop. Oh, watcher too I guess.

I agree on Replayer. I think a 1-Shot Replayer that can be used to repeat night actions, independent on number of shots left would be much more interesting.

Yeah I agree with that. We did originally intend it as a misinformation/role block tool, and I think that's the best use.

You can see in the mafia chat that we later made lightning's interviewer ability a little easier to use. Easy enough that I didn't notice it upon first reading the thread! Otherwise it was too obvious that she was Guy

We placed no restrictions on mafia using an ability + hitman I don't see too much of a point in that restriction typically, but didn't feel it was needed anyway.

@frank, that's exactly what i was thinking before I realized the x-shot limitation ruined the combo
I can't remember if mafia came up with that idea or not, as well

 

[Gwaihir]

Feedback#2: I think it's really really really really fun for mafia to know the details of the rewards/penalties/eligibility/etc and try to put them to good use.

Agreed, it is more fun when someone is controlling the mechanic. How exactly did that work anyways?

I guess I misunderstood your original post then. I thought you were saying mafia wouldn't "risk" exposing a mafia power role as long as a plain goon could submit the NK. To me, it looked like you were saying: "well, Laarz wasn't the hitman since he flipped replay so that means a mafia goon faking a power role also targeted Drixx." I just disagree with that supposition in it's entirety and will do so each and every game it comes up.

Oh, and mafia had 0 repeatable night actions. We had 1 repeatable day action and a collection of X shot abilities.

Hmm. It seems to me when mafia discuss who should submit the NK, it is usually: who can we afford to get caught the most. Generally the people with no abilities submit before the ones who have actives/passives.

The real flaws in my argument was I expected a X-shot on the flip if it was limited shots, so I thought it was an every night thing, and I did not expect so many X-shots in general.

Replay is a nice alternative to a mafia "roleblock" ability. I'd like to see it again. However, the "can't be used to repeat an action with 0 charges left" restriction was too restrictive this game. I think there was a single ability it could have been used on: Morty Liberman's rolecop. Oh, watcher too I guess.

Agreed. It really seemed like a fun role to use, just need more good targets for it in the game. Would also make for some funny situations.

Did it expend a shot by a townie? So could you waste a second night vig shot with it?
Imagine the confusion if a JOAT submitted a cop the first night and a watcher the second night, and then got innocent results on both. Also, would the JOAT expend his watcher shot or just not use it?
What happens if you target the same person on 2 consecutive nights? EX:

N1) A tagets B
N2) X replays A, A attempts to target C. A instead targets B
N3) X replays A, A attempts to target D. Does A actually target B or C?

Could you have gotten another nk with the combination of replay and bus driver?

On the limited shots thing, that would only be useful for mafia on mafia action?

I don't think it would work unless the person targeted did not die. Unless you are allowed to target a dead player with bus.

 

[pharphis]

Agreed, it is more fun when someone is controlling the mechanic. How exactly did that work anyways?



Hmm. It seems to me when mafia discuss who should submit the NK, it is usually: who can we afford to get caught the most. Generally the people with no abilities submit before the ones who have actives/passives.

The real flaws in my argument was I expected a X-shot on the flip if it was limited shots, so I thought it was an every night thing, and I did not expect so many X-shots in general.



Agreed. It really seemed like a fun role to use, just need more good targets for it in the game. Would also make for some funny situations.

Did it expend a shot by a townie? So could you waste a second night vig shot with it?
Imagine the confusion if a JOAT submitted a cop the first night and a watcher the second night, and then got innocent results on both. Also, would the JOAT expend his watcher shot or just not use it?
What happens if you target the same person on 2 consecutive nights? EX:

N1) A tagets B
N2) X replays A, A attempts to target C. A instead targets B
N3) X replays A, A attempts to target D. Does A actually target B or C?




I don't think it would work unless the person targeted did not die. Unless you are allowed to target a dead player with bus.

No it would work if shots didn't matter. Use bus on the first kill and the second night replay so the killer repeat the kill but on the intended target this night. At least that's how I would work it

 

[thefranklin]

Right, too bad the bus wasn't a four seater, with Gory's extra kill and all.

Ignore lack of spelling and logic, phonestyle

 

[Gwaihir]

No it would work if shots didn't matter. Use bus on the first kill and the second night replay so the killer repeat the kill but on the intended target this night. At least that's how I would work it

Brilliant, didn't think about that option.

 

[Jcakes1]

Brilliant, didn't think about that option.

nope neither did I.

 

[Goryani]

I agree on Replayer. I think a 1-Shot Replayer that can be used to repeat night actions, independent on number of shots left would be much more interesting.

Screw 1-shot. Every night replayer! Replayer is a hybrid between roleblocker and busdriver - both of which are every night abilities.

 

[pharphis]

Whoever hosts the next WIFOA game needs to include Replayer it seems.

What are y'all's thoughts on Skanki vs. Danny?
Or the role thieving Vigilante?

 

[BipolarChemist]

What are y'all's thoughts on Skanki vs. Danny?

You're not Southern. Stop saying y'all!

 

[Goryani]

Could you have gotten another nk with the combination of replay and bus driver?

First thing I thought of and the answer was no (due to 0 shots restriction and because killing a dead player again ..... replay copies the exact same targets as the first time).

On the limited shots thing, that would only be useful for mafia on mafia action?

All the non-reply mafia abilities were 1 shot. The "can't replay a 0-shot ability" meant we couldn't copy ANY mafia ability whatsoever.

 

[Bad Ash]

Whoever hosts the next WIFOA game needs to include Replayer it seems.

What are y'all's thoughts on Skanki vs. Danny?
Or the role thieving Vigilante?

Love love the role theiving vigilante.

Was Skanki told that I knew he wanted me dead? I always thinks things like that are very fun, but it's tricky cause they can ruin a game with the neutrals IDGAF attitude.

If it came down to it too I think his strongman bullet should have killed me. Makes it that much more fun to have to get skanki killed without him shoving a gun in your face.

 

[Goryani]

Agreed, it is more fun when someone is controlling the mechanic. How exactly did that work anyways?

It was a total team effort of discussion and theorycrafting:

One more bit of information for you all!

We will need you guys to choose a number between 1 and 4.

Number 2. Cause MXC is full of...

A number 1 always follows a number 2, so let's go with number 1!

we pick #3 in line with number picking method of guru

For the number we pick, want to try 4?

That's about the total sum of how it worked for our part.

Hmm. It seems to me when mafia discuss who should submit the NK, it is usually: who can we afford to get caught the most. Generally the people with no abilities submit before the ones who have actives/passives.

The real flaws in my argument was I expected a X-shot on the flip if it was limited shots, so I thought it was an every night thing, and I did not expect so many X-shots in general.

You may be right about the more likely/less likely stuff. It's just opposite of how I think about it. I'd be curious to see numbers but I'm too lazy to obtain them myself.

SOMETIMES mafia have a power role worth protecting. SOMETIMES mafia have a player worth protecting. SOMETIMES mafia don't want Player X to be caught because of some domino falling scenario. Not all games have all. Not all games have any. I tend to protect players more than roles.

In my opinion, far more often, mafia have someone "close" to being lynched already. That player is usually who I recommend performing the NK. If a power role is gonna claim to get mafia lynched, it might as well be on the mafia most likely to lynched without the power role claiming. Role is less important than inherent scuminess.

Plus, WIFOM.

Letting a mafia power role get caught performing a NK just to "confirm" vanilla mafia as townie is not something I have ever thought about before. Now it is. Thanks for that.

 

[Goryani]

No it would work if shots didn't matter. Use bus on the first kill and the second night replay so the killer repeat the kill but on the intended target this night. At least that's how I would work it

I thought of this but I think I assumed the replay would copy the bussed target and not the submitted target.

 

[Goryani]

What are y'all's thoughts on Skanki vs. Danny?

I didn't get the flavor or why they were in MXC. I like the twist on survivor and lyncher. They fit well together. They are well balanced as 2 non-town non-mafia (I think the combo is good for either 2 mislynches or a mislynch + vig kill).

Or the role thieving Vigilante?

In a vacuum: could be super duper swingy. It needs to be used with caution.
This game: pretty sweet.

 

[pharphis]

Love love the role theiving vigilante.

Was Skanki told that I knew he wanted me dead? I always thinks things like that are very fun, but it's tricky cause they can ruin a game with the neutrals IDGAF attitude.

If it came down to it too I think his strongman bullet should have killed me. Makes it that much more fun to have to get skanki killed without him shoving a gun in your face.

Skanki wasn't told you were looking out for Skanki, so Zokar's play D1 was very risky. On the other hand, you didn't know Skanki was strongman OR vengeful. Your 1x bulletproof was designed so that your game isn't ruined by being killed by mafia (and Skanki's, too) and Skanki was therefore given strongman to counter that. We gave you role cop even though perhaps a name cop would have made more sense, but apparently role cop was enough given Skanki's role name.

When we saw flubb would be getting vengeful murderer as his stolen role I was really excited but BPC rightfully pointed out that with the 1x strongman shot expended it doesn't actually do anything. We were also secretly hoping that the thieving role cop would steal another vig shot from someone

I think I asked this in the dead thread but what was the "townie" thing about Zokar shooting flubb? That argument made no sense.

I didn't get the flavor or why they were in MXC. I like the twist on survivor and lyncher. They fit well together. They are well balanced as 2 non-town non-mafia (I think the combo is good for either 2 mislynches or a mislynch + vig kill).



In a vacuum: could be super duper swingy. It needs to be used with caution.
This game: pretty sweet.

I don't know what you mean regarding why they're in MXC. They're characters from the show if that's what you're asking.

We also tried to balance numbers for town vs mafia based on worst case and most likely scenario for vig shots on townies. It turned out to work well in town's favour with only 2 vig shots used effectively against town, rather than 4
Having 2 less than expected sign up felt perfect in the end

 

[Drixx]

Well, at the time I said it was a more townie move than shooting Bad Ash, it seemed like BA was actually a town aligned player and Zokar's target, and would continue to be around with investigative power, so Zokar shooting Flubb (who I deemed likely to be out of shots) was more townie than shooting Bad Ash, given the info available at the time.

Obviously once all the end of day stuff happened, it would have been better for town (but not Bad Ash) if Zokar had shot BA instead ... but that's only the case in hindsight.

 

[pharphis]

Well, at the time I said it was a more townie move than shooting Bad Ash, it seemed like BA was actually a town aligned player and Zokar's target, and would continue to be around with investigative power, so Zokar shooting Flubb (who I deemed likely to be out of shots) was more townie than shooting Bad Ash, given the info available at the time.

Obviously once all the end of day stuff happened, it would have been better for town (but not Bad Ash) if Zokar had shot BA instead ... but that's only the case in hindsight.

But by shooting zokar, flubb saved town from wasting a lynch day, whereas BA had no real evidence suggesting he was town. Forcing the town to lynch someone (even if anti-town) is still something mafia don't want to circumvent by wasting a vigilante shot.