Ultimate Characters - the making of

zaphodbrx

New member
Hi folks. I said I would make a thread about ultimate characters a few weeks ago, but due to masses of RL and work I had no time to play Diablo 2 till now, But anyway here it is.

The purpose of an ultimate character, is to meet the following requirements as well as can be done.

- To be able to defeat all kinds of monsters, and not skip any monster as far as possible. This means not restarting the game when encountering 3-4 nasty boss packs of fanaticism and conviction or whatever, or spawning a certain type of immunity.
- To be able to kill hell monsters on players 8 with a decent kill speed, anywhere in the game, with a good comfort level.
- No deaths, as far as possible. Even in softcore, I don't like to die. Less than once in ten hours is what I'm looking for.

As you can imagine, the building of an ultimate character is one of the toughest things in D2. This is what I had been interested in for the last one year, trying different builds, respec'ing, testing, and now I think I've taken concept to a good level, maybe not perfect, insofar as no character can really ever be perfect, but still good. If any of you are interested in this kind of thing, which I don't think there is, but anyway, I would be happy to hear any suggestions.

The testing was mostly all carried out in p8 worldstone keep runs ( level 1,2,3, throne, waves, baal ). WSK spawns very erratically and sometimes very tough types of monsters, so I think it is a good representative of Hell mode in general.

1. Matriarch Zarine - Blizzballer sorceress

The blizzballer is, in my opinion, the best sorc build of all time. It is great for untwinked, decent at MF with a Tal rasha set ( can do p3 hell almost anywhere with 300 mf ), and with the items I equipped it comes the closest to an ultimate character that I can think of. Huge cold damage, decent fire damage, boosted by conviction, which also breaks quite a few immunities, and she packs a good amount of -efr/-ecr to deal with broken immunes. Unbroken dual immunes are taken out by static field and merc. Static is also used to deal with bosses and just to soften up monsters sometimes- it's a great third element, practically a tri elementalist. Also, telekinesis spammed on dual immunes so that they don't bother the merc.

The phoenix shield is very key in recovering mana and life quickly, and is actually what makes the sorceress very comfortable to play. Though she is quite fragile, careful play and teleporting keeps her safe. I only died twice levelling from 94 to 96.

Merc: A2 holy freeze, eth infinity CV, Andy's ( RJOF), ebug fort.

Full build here. The LCS pics are for level 94 and it improved slightly at level 96 but I can't find the new screenshots (they're in the lounge thread somewhere ). This is the only character that I planned from the beginning as an ultimate character, the others just sort of happened - they went through so many respecs that they have very little in common with their original character - and thus don't have a mat/pat thread.

Pros: Very high damage and kill speed, practically no problem with immunities.
Cons: Low survivability, low FHR. The cold immune witches on WSK 1 and throne are really killer sometimes.

2. Matriarch Rukmini - Lightning javazon

Lightning fury is perhaps the single most powerful offensive ability in the game. Add to this killer single target damage in charged strike, elr and conviction for broken immunes , decent physical damage via merc and jab and you have a very formidable ultimate character.

I have two swap setups for her
-( chaos/other leechable/easy areas ): Moser's (+10/-6), Rare amulet +1 skills/20@/8ML, razortail
-- maxblock, max pierce, better dmg and -elr. LCS.
-( Worldstone keep/difficult areas ): Phoenix monarch, Mara's 29@, Tgods
-- high fres/lres and sorb, better hp, big boost to jab/throw, wtfbbq redemption aura LCS.
Other items are all same, Griffons +20/-25, Chains of honor, 2/20 gloves, rare boot, ravenfrost, Stone of Jordan

And of course 3 stacks of ethereal upgraded Titans, one used and two carried in cube for convenient swapping -Pic.
I planned to replace the mosers with AtSoD or JMod with 5/5s but never got round to it. Prefer the phoenix for the most part anyway, more versatile and smoother. Sometimes carry both sets for swapping depending on area Pic, but this only uses 2 sets of javs which can cause depletion. Eth titans can't be repaired obviously and must be rotated. I used to carry a thunderstroke for Baal but stopped bothering really.

Merc: A2 might, eth infinity CV, Andy's ( RJOF), ebug fort.

Pros: Immense damage output. Decent crowd control using slow missiles and decoy. Good survivability via dodges and blocks.
Cons: Immune problem, broken ones are easily dispatched but unbroken ones have to be jabbed down one by one, despite ~3k jab and good merc dmg it's a little slow, and sometimes they can be immune to both lightning and physical. I usually skip these, or keep an Um'ed reapers in stash to swap on merc if I really want to kill them ( open wounds preventing regen ). No teleport, compared to the sorc.

3. Matriarch Graendel - Kick trap assassin

A powerful and versatile character. Good lightning damage and CE from traps, great crowd control using CoS/MB, decent physical damage, leech, mana leech, life tap, max block and max pdr.

Items: Azurewrath/Stormlash, Stormshield (um ), CtA Phaseblade/Spirit monarch, Enigma, Harlequin crest ( Ambergris JoF ), rare amulet ( 2 sin/10 fcr/6 ml/17@ res/58 mana ), upped gores, dracs, Arachnid mesh, raven frost, bkwb.

Skills: Lightning sentry level 39, with all its synergies maxed. 3 in fireblast, 1 pt CoS,MB,fade, rest in dragon talon ( around level 27 ). Charms - whole bunch of entrapping skillers. Merc: eth infinity CV, Andy's ( RJOF), ebug fort.

The CTA pb/spirit switch is used for trap laying ( 9fpa max speed, +3 more skills ) and for teleporting around/mindblast ( 65 fcr ). The stormlash/Azure + stormshield is used for kicking. Stormlash is mainly only used for Baal - around lightning immunes the Azurewrath with it's sanctuary, magic and cold dmg is much more useful in general areas. Stormshield provides max block and pdr, Resistances are maxed ( except fire, which is a little less ) due to fade.

I prefer k/T to pure trappers - I don't like fireblast and find that the setup for melee - lifetap, max block/pdr, sanctuary,mana leech etc. more comfortable to play with. Lightning sentry damage is still very high ( around 1-8600 ) and Death Sentry CE also provides a huge amount of damage once some bodies are on the floor. CB and static are also very nice for Baal runs and other bosses, as compared to a pure trapper. This video shows Baal run with stormlash.

Pros: Versatile, mobile, good survivability, great crowd control.
Cons: Killing speed is not as good as a sorc or zon.

4. Patriarch Conan - Whirlwind/Berserk Barbarian

The WW barb is one of the strongest physical damage characters in the game, so it is hardly a surprise that it would be represented in the ultimate characters collection. In addition to physical damage, he also brings magic damage for immunities via berserk and a whole host of crowd control skills.

Items: Grief pb/Azurewrath (cham), Grief pb/stormshield (shael), Fortitude sacred armor, Arreat's face (um ), String of Ears, LoH, Highlord's, gores, ravenfrost, rare dual leech/resists ring.
Skills: 20 WW, sword mastery, BO, shout, 1 pt warcry, taunt, incr speed, iron skin, berserk, rest in howl. A few extra in natural resist.

Charms are mainly resistance, life, and about +30 max dmg/some AR. Resistances are overstacked to about 30 fr and 70 lr under conviction - a little overkill maybe, but take that! conviction gloams or hydras or whatever.

Merc: A2 might, eth reapers ( shael ), Guillame (cham ), treachery.

For the most part, whirling through, leeching and having great hp and defense means he can effortlessly mow down mobs. Merc applies decrepify and crushing blow. The only difficulties are presented by physical resistance, immunity and unleechables.

To some extent, the physical resistance/immunity problem can be solved by the sanctuary aura via Azurewrath, which sets the physical resistance of undeads to 0. This helps dealing with wraiths ( immune ), gloams ( 90% dr ), doom/oblivion knights ( high dr, and can be very dangerous - the cham in azure freezes them and sanctuary knocks them away ). The unleechable problem can't really be solved but we can use potions for health and mana recovery.

The actual problem, however, is the A5 monsters that are naturally immune to physical and are not undead - ie. Hell temptess, blood lord, death berserkers, etc. There is no option but to berserk them - and unlike single bosses that are physical immune some times, whole groups of monsters can be pretty dangerous to berserk. Not only do we not leech, but the defense rating drops from ~20,000 to zero.

This is where warcries are important. Sometimes just charging in and warcry -zerk one by one ( fcr from forti helps ). Sometimes they have to be taunted out one by one. I usually switch to grief/stormshield - the ~45% block helps a bit. Howl is also sometimes used to isolate troublesome bosses.

Overall with practice I have got the technique down to where PI's are not much problem any more. Also, I switch the weapons quite a bit- grief/grief if I see no PIs or troublesome undead, grief/azure for sanctuary/freeze, grief/stormshield for berserk.

Pros: Great survivability, due to high hp,stacked resists, defense, leech and warcries.
Cons: Somewhat slow kill speed. PIs, especially hell temptresses can still pose a threat when multiple bosspacks with bad mods spawn. Without AOE, stygian hags are frustrating. Dolls are a problem for any meleer, though I'm impatient and just whirl them when not amped, it seems reasonably safe.

5. Patriarch Duran - Poison/Summon hybrid mercmancer

He is one of my experimental builds that I call the poison summon hybrid mercmancer . The basic idea behind this build is to have a summon/CE type mercmancer that didn't suck too much against physical immunes. The summon/CE mercmancer is easily the strongest necromancer build in the game, due to the combination of strong merc damage, amp, skeleton meatshields and CE, with only one weakness - physical immunes, which this build tries to rectify.

Items: Beast zerker/Death's web +4/-55 ( in cube, in inventory, for swap ), spirit 35 fcr, CtA/spirit switch, Enigma, shako (um), Mara's (29@), 2 SoJ, Arachnid mesh, rare boots.

Skills: 20 Raise skeleton, 20 Poison nova, 20 poison dagger, 20 poison explosion, 1 clay golem, golem mastery, skeleton mastery, summon resist, amp, decrepify, lower resist, rest in CE ( level 22 after skills )

Charms: PnB skillers
Merc; A2 might, Ebotd warpike, Guillame(cham), ebug fort.

He has decent poison nova damage when equipped with a death's web but I only use that against physical immunes. Merc/CE with skeleton support ( LCS ) is usually a lot better, though the summons need to be replaced more often than a conventional summoner. I use Beast here ( dweb is kept in cube for swapping ).

He does all right against anything not physical immune due to amp-teleport-merc kills stuff -CE-CE-CE. Against PIs, I swap to Dweb and use poison nova. It is effective most of the times though it kind of sucks against high hp stuff like frenzytaurs. There are some things that are immune to both physical and poison, like wraiths. Which suck, even though they break under both amp and lower resist. Decrep is used against dangerous bosses and teleporting on top of monsters can be dangerous sometimes, so a little care needs to be taken.

Pros: Good crowd control and survival, as long as teleporting is done carefully
Cons: Slows down versus PIs and bosses, mana problems ( needs potion popping, a little ), very dependent on minions.

6. Patriarch Robinhood - Fanatic Dreaming zealot

This is my last addition to the ultimate characters. It is a fanatic zealot that relies primarily on physical damage, but also has two dreams equipped for holy shock lightning damage vs immunes.

Items: Grief phaseblade ( 396/37), Fortitude wire fleece, Dream crown, Dream hyperion, SoE, LoH, Highlord's, Gores, ravenfrost, dual leech ring. Cta/spirit switch.

Skills: 20 zeal, 20 sacrifice, 20 fanaticism, 20 resist lightning. 1 sanctuary, redemption, vigor, cleansing, charge, holy shield rest in conviction ( level 10 after skills )

Charms: Resistance/life/max dmg
Merc: A2 might, eth reapers ( shael ), Guillame (cham ), treachery.

The fanatic zealot is one of the most powerful physical damage builds in the game. Unlike a barbarian though, there isn't any easy solution to physical immunes. Sanctuary is available to paladins, but isn't always useful. Reapers merc is useful but only to an extent, since decrepifed enemies still have 90 dr. Thus the need for an alternate type of damage. This is where dreams come in. Even though we have less physical damage compared to a two handed setup or the same build with guillame/phoenix shield, the dreams add about 3k lightning damage which greatly help in dealing with immunities. We also have max block and around 8k def.

This is the only paladin on which I use very many skills. Main switch ( grief/dream ) has zeal left, and right aura cycles between fanaticism, sanctuary and conviction depending on what type of enemy we face. Fanaticism for normal enemies, sanctuary for undead high DR ( gloams)/immune, conviction for non undead PIs ( example ) Switch has call to arms for buffing BO, holy shield, also charge on left and aura on right is vigor ( fast running ), redemption ( clearing corpses/regain life ), cleansing ( negate poisons and amp ). Note that 4fpa zeal is obtained even when not running fanaticism.

Dreams also have chance to cast confuse when struck, which is very helpful against tough enemies ( they fight each other ), but can be irritating sometimes due to small enemies running away ( like flayers ), and overwrites decrepify. This adds some degree of crowd control.

Overall I think it is the most satisfactory type of zealot.

Pros: Good survivability, some crowd control, versatile.
Cons: Some types of monsters are physical and lightning immune, and don't break under decrep or conviction. These must be parked. A little slow kill speed. Without AOE, stygian hags are frustrating. Dolls are a problem for any meleer, though I'm impatient and just zeal them when not amped, it seems reasonably safe.

Okay, so that's the lot. Hall of fame Pic.

[highlight]Close but no cookie[/highlight]

These are the builds that have merits to them and work very well under different circumstances, but can not be accepted as ultimate characters. I tested them all thoroughly.

Sorceress

>Lightning/orb sorceress - Lightning has some disadvantages compared to fire and cold. First the cast rate is much lower, and you have to stand there and cast it, unlike fire and forget spells like meteor and blizzard. This makes it a lot more dangerous to use against tough enemies like witch boss packs, conviction gloams, etc. Second is the immune problem, orb and conviction/-elr helps, but its not enough. Things like extra fast zealots in WSK1 can be very difficult. Not having a phoenix shield on this build doesn't help either. Finally, you can not use static against immunes.

>Pure lightning sorc - The same problems as the above but the immune problem is even worse and you are entirely reliant on merc to kill unbroken ones. Not versatile at all. Overrated build in general - it's only good for Baal runs.

Amazon

>Icemaiden ( FA/EA) - Works pretty well in general, but EA has low damage and some types of monsters almost can't be dealt with, such as vampires. Also, mana problem.

>Physical bowazon ( strafe/multi/MA/GA ). This is probably best suited to low level/low hp areas such as pits, any kind of physical resistance or immunity just pwns it in the difficult areas. Same goes for physical spearazon/lightning spearazon.

Assassin

>Pure trapper is quite good, though I haven't got the full build for it ( don't like shopping claws ). Some disadvantages such as against bosses, dual immunes, etc.

>Phoenix striker- killing speed is low, but it is versatile.

Paladin

>Two handed fanatic zealot/ 1H fanatic with grief/phoenix, etc. These are rather good in general, but physical immunes are problematic. Also they have no crowd control.

>Avenger, Auradin. They have multiple types of damage, but kill speed is too low, plus other problems.

>Hammerdin . Great build if you want to only kill about 70% of the monsters in the game. For full clear, you will be tearing your hair out of frustration trying to nail kitey monsters, monsters in small passageways and magic immunes are impossible.

Barbarian

>Wolfbarb is an awesome build so long as you skip non-undead PIs. Shifting to zerk and cast warcries is too much.
I have grief/beast main and grief/azure switch depending on whether I want fanaticism or sanctuary.

Necromancer

>Conventional Summon/CE mercmancer. I have one of these, with the same equipment as Duran except for the Dweb and the skillers are replaced with graverobbers. Skills are 20 RS,SM,CE, golem mastery with insight iron golem and remaining points in amp. Great build, so long as you skip PIs.

>Poisonmancer. Equipped with Dweb, bramble, 3 piece trangs, his poison damage is very good, with LR and -80% ePR and what not ( LCS. But he really struggles against unbreakable PoIs and there are just too many of them in act 5 hell, it's a big weakness. Plus, problems with high hp enemies ( frenzytaur ), and bosses.

Druid

>Windy druid is the only one which is sort of acceptable, but he doesn't really cut it in WSK type areas. Damage is too low, immune problem and oak sage is unreliable. The druid class is badly designed and is not suited to being an ultimate character.

Hope you had fun reading!
 
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Excellent thread :thumbup:

If I find a DFathom I'm definitely making a Blizzballer since I've only ever played them untwinked.
 
Excellent read and writeup Zaph. I had some of the aforementioned gear in my SC stash (Grief, Dream...) and played all the above chars etc and this would sum up my feelings on the toons although I hadn't analyzed play like you've done.

My comments now are strictly pertaining to HC and that is, with the limited experience I have had thus far, I believe KS will drop right off (by comparison to say a Furyzon) in order to have an idiot proof character that can survive indefinitely in hell with whatever it encounters.

I'm building barb number 3, a singer, on the most awesome naranjadita's suggestion and will repec to wolfhowl once high enough. I'll see what I do with PI's when i get there. The sorc and Necro I currently have are way to fragile, too many NDE's with the sorc already, mainly teleporting.

Anyway, once again, great writeup and THANKYOU for sharing your experience and recommendations!!
 
Thanks for the post Zaph, I've been waiting for this. Well, I was hoping that you'd share some secret key tech on Druids, but sadly it's not to be.

The hybrid necro looks particularly interesting, I'll have to try that out.
 
How did you get so many HRs?

My summoning necro can kill PIs thanks to Lower Resist, his mages and puny Bone Spear (1 point on the way to Bone Prison to synergize Bone Armour). Sometimes it takes a bit, but it can be done. When I find many HRs like you, I'll make an Infinity and speed up the process.
 
>Windy druid is the only one which is sort of acceptable, but he doesn't really cut it in WSK type areas. Damage is too low, immune problem and oak sage is unreliable. The druid class is badly designed and is not suited to being an ultimate character.

Actually I'd vote for a physical bear. Shock Wave is great in terms of safety - close to that of War Cry I'd say. And if you pair quick melee attack with damage of some good weapon, you're good to go. True, physical immunes are a pain in the mass, but with usual ways to solve the problem they're quite doable.
Resists of the character can be a problem, though.

Same goes for a wolfbarb - except for x1.5 hp, x1.5 resists, x10 def and a buzzload of leech (even compared to a WWer).
Not like I'm trying to provoke an argument. Just some thoughts off the top of my skull.

edit:
Fanatic Dreaming zealot
I'm too lazy to do the math (I'll do it later), but speaking of dual dreams.
Afaik, Holy Shock is going to add about 2.5k average damage per hit. Shouldn't it just compensate the lack of crits from Guillaume's? Then, what is the average elemental damage per hit (and per second) of, say, eOath BA 1pt Vengeance with 1pt Convi you can use as a situational weapon set?
Also, this set up requires less skill points in DD skills and less high runes.
Anyone bothers to do some testing?

Aside from that, the build sounds like a lot of fun and is somewhat refreshening after thousands of standard zealots and smealots.

Also, it would be great if someone who is filthy rich and having a high level zealot finally says a word or two about the 'Phoenix' shield with zeal, smite and vengeance (after some tests ofc).

edit:

I'm building barb number 3, a singer, on the most awesome naranjadita's suggestion and will repec to wolfhowl once high enough. I'll see what I do with PI's when i get there.

While singer is really safe, you can't put him in a row with the ultimate chars - just because he ain't gonna cut the thick skin of /p8 monsters. Safety IS a big deal, especially if you go HC, but what we want here is safety + high DPS (and DPS of an average singer is about 3k before physical resistances of monsters).

To deal with PI's you can:
1). combine 1pt berserk with battle cry (to remove enemy's defense completely) - that's just as ridiculous as berserk on a wolf
2). wait until merc procs Decrepify - that means you'll lose Meditation aura. Ouch.
3). stun/scare the problem monsters and keep on going - why not?
4). use partial TO set for firewall - but that's a move of a style, not efficiency.

Don't get me wrong, singer is still great and will carry you through /p3 Hell with no problems.

the most awesome naranjadita's
The one and only!
 
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While singer is really safe, you can't put him in a row with the ultimate chars - just because he ain't gonna cut the thick skin of /p8 monsters. Safety IS a big deal, especially if you go HC, but what we want here is safety + high DPS (and DPS of an average singer is about 3k before physical resistances of monsters).

To deal with PI's you can:
1). combine 1pt berserk with battle cry (to remove enemy's defense completely) - that's just as ridiculous as berserk on a wolf
2). wait until merc procs Decrepify - that means you'll lose Meditation aura. Ouch.
3). stun/scare the problem monsters and keep on going - why not?
4). use partial TO set for firewall - but that's a move of a style, not efficiency.

Don't get me wrong, singer is still great and will carry you through /p3 Hell with no problems.


The one and only!

Only minor nitpicking, but a singer geared for damage can quite easily reach 4-5k DPS. Even my MFer, which is very much not geared for doing high dmg, does around 3.5. Still far from being able to clear P8 auras at a reasonable speed though.

Also, yes, singer without meditation aura. Ouch indeed. Would be very borderline unplayable.
 
One point vengeance doesn't really work. You need to max it out and get all its synergies to make it half way decent. It's not at all like berserk. One thing you also need to account for is that grief doesn't work with vengeance, so I made mine with an ebotd zerker but even then it's really underwelming. Phoenix shield results in maximum physical damage, but then you can just go two handed instead for even more damage , although lacking block ( I did this on my travi zealots ). The whole point of dreams is to solve the zealot's two main problems: physical immunes ( through lightning damage ) and crowd control ( through confuse ), phoenix doesn't help with either.

Werebear doesn't really cut it, made a couple of those and it's meh at best. Link.
 
grief doesn't work with vengeance
hence the eDeath suggestion.

Phoenix shield results in maximum physical damage
What I wanted to know about Phoenix is the whole attack interruption thing (firestorm bla bla delay bla bla).

meh at best.
Also, if "meh-ness" of a bear is all about "lacks CE" and "weapon breaks", I'd say that you may underestimate the build a little :D
I'll have to try it though in order not to be empty worded (wandered off to plan a druid).
 
Your gear choices are interesting. I like how you use the CtA/Spirit switch to lay traps on your assassin, or how you lean on the Phoenix shield to avoid using Insight on your sorc. Agree with your comments on all of your builds. Good job!
 
Just asking what about Hammerdin/1pt Smiter&1pt Fanatacism? Crowd control on Magic Immunes could be an issue. 1 Pt in smite + 1pt in fanatacism + some CB with a decent elite shield can tear down almost anything.
 
Nice thread! I am surprised you left fury druid off of the list...
Dang, 2500 is some nice LF damage. Did you ever try enigma for merc micro management? And am I the first to yell at you for not trying mentioning fishyzon as stronger than Icemaiden? Although the jav part is redundant with the #2 character.


I'm too lazy to do the math (I'll do it later), but speaking of dual dreams.
Afaik, Holy Shock is going to add about 2.5k average damage per hit. Shouldn't it just compensate the lack of crits from Guillaume's? Then, what is the average elemental damage per hit (and per second) of, say, eOath BA 1pt Vengeance with 1pt Convi you can use as a situational weapon set?
Also, this set up requires less skill points in DD skills and less high runes.
Anyone bothers to do some testing?

3.5k per hit at 4fpa at the same time as your physical damage without needing your weapon switch (leaving it open for BO). That will leave a dent in things. The best avenger evar (WORG) did 9.6k avg damage at 8fpa. A 1 point vengeance backup will do something like 500 average damage?
 
3.5k per hit
Level 30 HS with a bonus damage from maxed RL deals ~2.8k average damage. Maxing Salvation is out of skill limitations of a physical zealot.

at the same time as your physical damage
and the physical damage is ignored. PI's, remember? And against non-PI's there are crits and crushes from Guillaume's.

without needing your weapon switch (leaving it open for BO).
Yay for one-button characters! Yay for CtA being an ultimate buttplug fitting any hole!

The best avenger evar (WORG)
Have no idea who it is.

did 9.6k avg damage at 8fpa.
My avenger deals 8k-24k at 10 frames. Yay numbers without any context!

And finally, since noone is bothering doing the math before throwing numbers left and right:
ethBA deals 47.5*1.5 ~ 71 avg dmg
Oath with a good roll (+330%): 71*(1+0.01*330) ~ 305
Normally a paladin carries, let's say, 2 combat skillers and Highlord's Wrath. Also, HoZ would make a good shield for a 1-handed Vengeance. This means, 1+4 = 5 Conviction and 1+4+4 = 9 Vengeance (+3*118% rainbow damage). This is 305*3*1.18 ~ 1080 damage per hit. With 9 frames per attack that'll do about 3k DPS.

Yes, this still is miserable. But I figured it out 'cause I bothered to check it, not because of some random uninformative forum post (containing rather inaccurate numbers, btw) You get the idea?
 
Firestorm procs from phoenix doesn't interrupt zeal. Zeal is uninterruptible :)
Still not sure what point you are trying to make with 1pt vengeance. It doesn't work, it's not like berserk. Just try it.
 
Firestorm procs from phoenix doesn't interrupt zeal. Zeal is uninterruptible :)
What about delays of any kind?
Like, I'm using a firewall on a singer and there still is some delay between firewall and war cry despite the fact that war cry has no cast delay.

what point
I just wanted something based on practical experience or calculations, and what I got was just "yadda yadda yadda it's not gonna work".

Forums got ya down?
Kind of.
 
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Firestorm procs from phoenix doesn't interrupt zeal. Zeal is uninterruptible :)

When skills with a casting delay are cast by Chances to Cast, no active skill can be used for 11 frames after the action frame. While this will not interrupt an individual Zeal sequence, it can cause a delay between sequences.

For example, maximum Zeal attack rate with a one-handed weapon is 4/4/4/4/8 (4+4): if a Phoenix shield's 40% Chance to Cast Level 22 Firestorm on Striking is triggered by the fifth attack in frame 20, the delay expires at the end of frame 30 (frames 20-29 and 30 totals 11 frames).

So if it's triggered by the last attack, the interval between Zeal sequences is 30 frames; if it's last triggered by the fourth attack, it's 26 frames; otherwise, it's 24 frames (since the delay expires before the sequence ends).

In the absence of blocking, the chance of it being triggered by the last attack is chance to hit (CTH) * chance to cast (CTC); the chance of it being last triggered by the fourth attack is CTH * CTC * (1 - (CTH * CTC) ), where 1 - (CTH * CTC) is the chance of the last attack not triggering it.

So with maximum 95% chance to hit and 40% chance to cast, the chance of it being triggered by the last attack is 38% (0.95 * 0.4); the chance of it being last triggered by the fourth attack is 23.56% (0.38 * 0.62); and thus the chance of it being last triggered by earlier attacks is 38.44%. This means average interval between Zeal sequences is (0.38 * 30) + (0.2356 * 26) + (0.3844 * 24) = 26.7512 frames.

Thus with 95% chance to hit average attack rate is ~11.5% (1 - (26.7512/24) ) faster without 40% Chance to Cast Level 22 Firestorm on Striking, so in terms of DPS a Phoenix shield may be a false economy if it does not increase DPS by ~11.5% or more.

What about delays of any kind?
Like, I'm using a firewall on a singer and there still is some delay between firewall and war cry despite the fact that war cry has no cast delay.

The same 11 frame delay applies when actively casting a skill which has no casting delay after a skill which has one.
 
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Good info there, though in practice, I find that it doesn't matter that much.
There are usually delays between zeal sequences anyway. Like moving around etc. I haven't found it to be much of a problem, though I haven't tried it much, admittedly. For pure physical damage I prefer two handed weapon and for a hybrid dreams are better as explained.
 
Good info there, though in practice, I find that it doesn't matter that much.
Prompted by naranjadita seeking clarification and my own uncertainty, I did some frame-by-frame video analysis which indicated that delays are triggered in frames 4, 8, 12, 16 and 20, so an 11 frame delay triggered by the last attack effectively extends the length of a Zeal sequence to 30 frames, not 32 frames. Consequently I've made corrections to my previous post, and the impact of the delay is slightly less than previously stated (with 95% chance to hit, average attack rate is ~11.5% faster without 40% Chance to Cast Level 22 Firestorm on Striking, not ~16.6% faster).
 
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