Ravenwood Retreat Mafia Game.

[Kraz3yIvan]

Re: Ravenwood Retreat Mafia Game.

because he hasn't lied about his role! He is able to actually track people if he isn't the hitman. The two nights he had to submit kills he isnt allowed to use his night action of tracking and "saw nothing to report"

he is self claiming not even using his ability! Because he couldn't as he was too busy kiling people.

look at his bandwagon vote as well. It can be excused as I voted for him, but if he was tracking and not killing he would have said "oh I watched over (for example) CbG and no one targeted him. or "I saw LoZ and nothing happened" but instead he says "nope, nada"

Well what your saying is technically feasible but why would he drop Sathoris in the s**t with the TC observation. The only reason he would do that for is an "all in" strategy for the game win trying to be an unimpeachable townie that's a serious role of the dice, I'm still siding on the simpler explanation.

What say you CgB on this situation?

 

[Bad Ash]

Re: Ravenwood Retreat Mafia Game.

ThunderCat. That means I watched TC two nights in a row, the second being when Sathoris killed him.



I didn't say you killed Ankeli. I said Asrrin did.

The SK kidnapped Asrrin because that's the only chance he has at winning. Had he kidnapped town, mafia would have won, guaranteed.

This is another example of Caluin making a kill last night. He is speaking from personal experience. He has run the SK win scenario and did the only thing he knew he could do. I honestly do not know the SK win scenario at this moment in time. If I was mafia or the SK the last thing I would have done in this exact game was to kill the next person to be lynched. That is unheard of.

Well what your saying is technically feasible but why would he drop Sathoris in the s**t with the TC observation. The only reason he would do that for is an "all in" strategy for the game win trying to be an unimpeachable townie that's a serious role of the dice, I'm still siding on the simpler explanation.

What say you CgB on this situation?

Probably because he never was aligned with Sathoris. It is fairly obvious that there are multiple kill groups. I was told this night one by Laarz and its been shown throughout the entire game.

For one mafia group to win the other must be eliminated

 

[Caluin Graye]

Re: Ravenwood Retreat Mafia Game.

How would the mafia have won guarunteed?

Hmmm, you're correct (without going through all the scenarios; I can if you want, I suppose, but it's silly). There was a way for SK to win had he nabbed town. However, that would have required the town to lynch mafia instead of trying to save their lost townie, and the mafia would need to kill another town that evening, leaving the game in a 1-1-1 scenario.

I guess it's a good thing for us he went the route he did. In any case, that's neither here nor there; I prefer to work with what's in front of us, rather than what could have been.

 

[Bad Ash]

Re: Ravenwood Retreat Mafia Game.

Hmmm, you're correct (without going through all the scenarios; I can if you want, I suppose, but it's silly). There was a way for SK to win had he nabbed town. However, that would have required the town to lynch mafia instead of trying to save their lost townie, and the mafia would need to kill another town that evening, leaving the game in a 1-1-1 scenario.

I guess it's a good thing for us he went the route he did. In any case, that's neither here nor there; I prefer to work with what's in front of us, rather than what could have been.

So you didnt fall in my trap.

So you think Asrrin was town then? Because he was next to be lynched and you said that the town would need to lynch a mafia to win?

 

[Caluin Graye]

Re: Ravenwood Retreat Mafia Game.

Probably because he never was aligned with Sathoris. It is fairly obvious that there are multiple kill groups. I was told this night one by Laarz and its been shown throughout the entire game.

This is such BS. Show me one night where two kills were made at the same time the SK kidnapped someone. Or an odd night where two kills happened (since the SK only strikes every other night; the evens). You can't.

 

[Bad Ash]

Re: Ravenwood Retreat Mafia Game.

This is such BS. Show me one night where two kills were made at the same time the SK kidnapped someone. Or an odd night where two kills happened (since the SK only strikes every other night; the evens). You can't.

I am counting the SK as one of the two kills.

Cal is the serial killer. He is a tracker, Sathoris was a tracker. Cal had no info on the nights he made kills and just pulled some stuff out of thin air when presented with it.


Think this through:

The serial killer is a kidnapper. He has "followed" his victims. Found them in uncompromising situations. The tracking ability even fits in with his M.O.

 

[Kraz3yIvan]

Re: Ravenwood Retreat Mafia Game.

So you think Asrrin was town then?

No way was Asrrin town - he would have been all over Sathoris with the observed evidence against him - when Asrrin is like a blood hound = town.

A forgiving Asrrin or at least a bit wishy washy = mafia/third party.

 

[Caluin Graye]

Re: Ravenwood Retreat Mafia Game.

Cal is the serial killer. He is a tracker, Sathoris was a tracker. Cal had no info on the nights he made kills and just pulled some stuff out of thin air when presented with it.

How was I able to spot Asrrin targeting TC on night two? Something that Asrrin confirmed that he did, so I couldn't have just made it up.

 

[Bad Ash]

Re: Ravenwood Retreat Mafia Game.

No way was Asrrin town - he would have been all over Sathoris with the observed evidence against him - when Asrrin is like a blood hound = town.

A forgiving Asrrin or at least a bit wishy washy = mafia/third party.

Absolutely. This is just another example of Cal being flustered at being outed and tripping over his words.

There was a 100% chance that asrrin was to be lynched next

 

[Kraz3yIvan]

Re: Ravenwood Retreat Mafia Game.

I am counting the SK as one of the two kills.

Cal is the serial killer. He is a tracker, Sathoris was a tracker. Cal had no info on the nights he made kills and just pulled some stuff out of thin air when presented with it.


Think this through:

The serial killer is a kidnapper. He has "followed" his victims. Found them in uncompromising situations. The tracking ability even fits in with his M.O.

This smacks of desperation now Bad Ash I believe the phrase clutching at straws would be appropriate here (If your right of course I'll be eating humble pie later!)

Would the mafia have two trackers? Remember Sathoris was a "part time" tracker - we have seen the mafia claimed roles this game look a bit part time i.e. not quite right

 

[Caluin Graye]

Re: Ravenwood Retreat Mafia Game.

Absolutely. This is just another example of Cal being flustered at being outed and tripping over his words.

I'm sorry, at what point did I ever say I thought Asrrin was town? Pretty sure I've been pushing for an Asrrin lynch longer than anyone but Ankeli.

You're trying to put words into my mouth.

If I was the SK, why would I bother to reveal myself as a town power role on day three? That defeats the whole purpose of "laying low, avoid attention". That's just asking for mafia to kill me off, not exactly a winning strategy there.

But you... you've been nothing but low this entire game. Suddenly, it's crunch time, you're the last mafia alive, and you're all kinds of gung-ho.

 

[Kraz3yIvan]

Re: Ravenwood Retreat Mafia Game.

Last night I blocked Ankeli again because I was certain he was anti-town. It appears as though I was wrong to some extent.

Have we in his game seen any successful use of your ability at all?

 

[Bad Ash]

Re: Ravenwood Retreat Mafia Game.

I thought that at first too, but can't think a recruitment would be very successful long term wise if it drew attention to itself by making the player disappear for a time frame. Should Leo pop back in suddenly, we'd have no recourse but to lynch her just to be sure she wasn't recruited. Seems counter-productive from a recruitment angle.

The poison thing bothers me. I don't think I've ever seen a case of someone dying at the beginning of a night phase (excluding the lynched, obviously). I wonder if it's a prolonged night action for a serial killer? Feysal didn't have the post restriction until the end of the first half of the day phase, then dropped dead at the end of the second. I have a bad feeling it's going to happen again.

So... what happened to this being a 'vanilla' game?

I wouldn't say it'd be my first action, but there's no way to tell for sure without the lynch. Obviously you'd want as much information as possible before doing the deed, but lynching is one of those most sure ways to get solid information. No matter what her explanation for the disappearance is, you can't tell if it's a lie or not without the lynch.

Seems pretty basic reasoning to me. Protecting your new-found cult buddy, Ivan?

I can see how my point was lost in the shuffle, but you caught the general gist of it. I was trying to show that it's a WIFOM situation, and the only way to be absolutely positive of where Leo's loyalties lie (should she return to us), is to go through with the lynch.

My personal opinion is that she's listed in the dead pool, we should treat her as such, and only worry about it should she happen to return to the game. In that unlikely scenario, I would indeed push for a lynch.



I'm of the opinion that they're red herrings.



How very... convenient.

I don't know what that means. I'm gonna go Wiki that and learn something new today.



Yes, agreed, which I plainly mentioned yesterday in post #264.



I wasn't being completely serious about it. Think of it as just trying to see how you'd react. So far, it's been very telling.



I didn't go straight to cult; I simply responded to Noodle's suggestion that it may be a recruitment (indicating cult activity) in post #237. You're the one who took the idea and kept rolling on with it. I feel my reasoning is fairly valid (as nobody has given a reason opposite to it), but seeing as she is not here, there's nothing we can do about it now, it's not worth worrying over.

However, now I'm sensing you're trying to deflect and trying to cause confusion amongst the town.

Moving on.

Still not convinced about Mara. I don't believe his claim to be a cop, I don't believe his excuse about the failed investigation, and think he's pulled a fast one on us.

Right now, I'd be up for lynching Mara, Ivan, or possibly TC. I strongly suggest the town figures out who we're gonna put in the noose and get it settled early, so we don't miss another lynch.

A number of us don't believe Mara was truthful when he claimed cop. I still find Mara scummier than the water that comes out of the taps in this backwater hotel.



Gorny, IMO, if you think you can learn who he swapped night one.

I've already explained my reasoning about that, which others have agreed with. I'm not going to repeat myself.

In fact, I'm glad you brought that up. In post #249 I state that we'd have no ability to confirm Leo's story without a lynch on her. So you're suspicious of me for using the lynch to gather information on Leo, but are pushing hard about doing the exact same thing on TC.



Flip-flopping is what a good townie does. Suspicious of everyone, revisit who's the scummiest at each day, evaluate who's the best option for a lynch, and gather as much information from that as possible. Yesterday, TC was our best option for a lynch. Today, he is our worst.

It's a scum move to push on a single person day in and day out, unless you're the cop. However, since I'm operating under the impression that Mara is the cop, then that doesn't apply here.



Every single thing the cop can determine about a player the mafia already knows at the start of the game. If mafia have reason to believe nobody will counter-claim, then it's actually an excellent idea for mafia to claim cop. He can then lead us by the nose. If someone does counter-claim, then mafia have found one town's best power roles.

This smacks of desperation now Bad Ash I believe the phrase clutching at straws would be appropriate here (If your right of course I'll be eating humble pie later!)

Would the mafia have two trackers? Remember Sathoris was a "part time" tracker - we have seen the mafia claimed roles this game look a bit part time i.e. not quite right

Would the town have 2.5 cops? Would the town have 1.5 Coroners?

Have we in his game seen any successful use of your ability at all?

How would you have liked me to prove it? By blocking our doc?



From Cal's quoted posts:

He was the first to notice Leo was "officially dead"

He was the first to know that is was a 3rd party that killed the 2nd night and when confronted by this fact by krazeyivan he tries to pin it on him with bolded letters.

Of course I am desperate! I have 2 votes on me in the first hour when it takes 3 to lynch. 5 players left and 2 kills and a wrong lynch could end the game. It would not be continued this long if it was already over. Again, how would you like me to play this? Aggressive is the only way I know how and I don't want the town to lose a winnable game.

 

[Bad Ash]

Re: Ravenwood Retreat Mafia Game.

If you want to ignore the Cal information then think of this:

you lynch me and I show up town. That leaves 4 players left

Krazey
CbG
Cal
Zarni

Who do you lynch and why?

Even if you lynch me and I were to show up anti-town (I wont) who do you lynch and why?

 

[Bad Ash]

Re: Ravenwood Retreat Mafia Game.

edit on my 2nd to last post:

Marahumm was a cop
Laarz was a vigilante cop
Noodle was a 50% cop who could be converted to mafia

CbG is the doctor
Someone was a bodyguard which sounds to me like a second form of doctor or protector

TC was a coroner if Leo was killed because Leo was the coroner.

There have been multiple of a lot of roles, them being "double tracker" doesnt seem odd at all

 

[Caluin Graye]

Re: Ravenwood Retreat Mafia Game.

Would the town have 2.5 cops? Would the town have 1.5 Coroners?

I don't believe Laarz was cop. I think he was the real tracker that Sathoris was claiming to be. He was the head of security, which typically means video cameras and the like. Very tracker-ish.

By extension, this means I don't believe your claims about being in a mason group with him.

He was the first to notice Leo was "officially dead"

He was the first to know that is was a 3rd party that killed the 2nd night and when confronted by this fact by krazeyivan he tries to pin it on him with bolded letters.

Hardly damning evidence. Again, I ask: If I was the SK, why would I draw attention to myself? Why claim power role? Why bring evidence against myself? It's ludicrous.

Of course I am desperate! I have 2 votes on me in the first hour when it takes 3 to lynch. 5 players left and 2 kills and a wrong lynch could end the game. It would not be continued this long if it was already over. Again, how would you like me to play this? Aggressive is the only way I know how and I don't want the town to lose a winnable game.

I don't call into question your furious posting late game, that's to be expected. I call into question the fact that up until now, you've been coasting. Up until this point, you've never proven to have the town's best interests at heart. You, amongst others, cost us the lynch when we were split between Asrrin and Sathoris.

 

[Kraz3yIvan]

Re: Ravenwood Retreat Mafia Game.

If you want to ignore the Cal information then think of this:

you lynch me and I show up town. That leaves 4 players left

Krazey
CbG
Cal
Zarni

Who do you lynch and why?

Even if you lynch me and I were to show up anti-town (I wont) who do you lynch and why?

If you turn up mafia - then its pretty much Zarni if your town I would say Zarni/Cal (even then leaning towards Zarni more)

edit on my 2nd to last post:

Marahumm was a cop
Laarz was a vigilante cop
Noodle was a 50% cop who could be converted to mafia

CbG is the doctor
Someone was a bodyguard which sounds to me like a second form of doctor or protector

TC was a coroner if Leo was killed because Leo was the coroner.

There have been multiple of a lot of roles, them being "double tracker" doesnt seem odd at all

I acknowledge your point there does seem to be some double/backup roles about

 

[Bad Ash]

Re: Ravenwood Retreat Mafia Game.

Yes because I wasn't able to log on. Not the first time this happened in this game. If you recall I asked the game to be moved back an hour in the sign-ups. It was and was the reason I have been around for ANY of the late day times. Want a pic of my work schedule? CST I work till 3pm M, W, and F. and 2pm CST on T/TR. I usually am sent home before those scheduled times but throw in a 30 min drive and it is what it is. you'll see it as well in SPF game. Sometimes I can post on my phone but its difficult to read lots of posts considering I am usually DRIVING while doing so haha.

Laarz was a vigilante and a cop. It's irrelevant information at this stage of the game because the only person who could confirm it was TC, but he received the information on Laarz and believed my claim

have krazey give me an item, have me block someones night actions, saying I cant prove I am a roleblocker is crazy talk because as stated before I would have to do a block that would hinder the town to prove it. If I blocked an anti-town what would they say? "oh yea, my kill was blocked last night" please....

 

[Bad Ash]

Re: Ravenwood Retreat Mafia Game.

Caluin, you ridiculed me for not being able to log on and secure the Thundercat lynch as well which benefited the town. I'll go grab that post if you'd like as well

 

[Caluin Graye]

Re: Ravenwood Retreat Mafia Game.

Caluin, you ridiculed me for not being able to log on and secure the Thundercat lynch as well which benefited the town. I'll go grab that post if you'd like as well

Ridiculed is such a strong word. Do you really feel like I made fun of you for it? In all seriousness, I meant no offense by it.

However, it is true that I called you out on it. My thoughts and actions were solid at the time. Yes, it's a lucky thing for the town TC dodged two bullets and gave us a lot of great information, but we didn't know that at the time. What we may have learned by lynching TC could have out weighed what we know now.

As an example, Sathoris was pushing hard for TC early on. Had we lynched TC, we'd have known he was town, and pointed fingers at Sath, and he wouldn't have lasted as long as he did. Perhaps you knew this and decided to save your mafia buddy by not pushing the TC lynch through.