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Vessel of Hatred

Act 2 vs Act 5 merc?

R

Rooster

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Aug 26, 2010
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Act 2 vs Act 5 merc?

Im making a singer barb for MFing anything and everything. Im having a hard time deciding if i should go with an act 2 might or act 5 barb.
Because Im a singer they will have a lvl 45~ BO/Shout, so they should both have great survivability. im wondering which is going to have the better damage? this is what im think their gear would be.
-Gear-
Act2: helm- perf andariel's, Armor- eth fortitude, wep- BOTD/Obedience
Act5: helm- perf arreat's, Armor- eth fortitude, wep- Last Wish/BOTD

remember act2 aura doesnt help me, the merc will be doing all the killing. I will just be buffing/de-buffing and stunning.
Ill be killing both Mob packs and Bosses. Which will rip things apart faster? any gear changes that you think would be better for them?
 
Re: Act 2 vs Act 5 merc?

Well the A2's Might aura doesnt help you, but it does help him...so to even compare, an A5 merc is forced to use LW. LW in an eth Colossus Blade is the only logical option, so thats 67.5 base DPS with 5 WSM, but no IAS, with L17 might and up to 375 ED.

Compare that to A2 Might merc with his best option, BotD in an eth War Pike...thats 157 base DPS with 20 WSM, but 85 total IAS, and up to L20 might depending on merc level, and 400 ed.

There's a reason you dont see anyone with an A5 merc... Auras>all

However, I think eth Reaper's is an even better polearm option than eBOTD war pike. A lot less displayed damage, of course, but the ITD means you hit almost every time (though BOTD comes with -25% enemy defense, to be fair), 33% DS makes up for the lower ED, LL on-weapon means you can go with Guillaumes helm for a huge offensive boost, and the super-reliable Decrep will tear through enemies when it procs (-50% phys resists will double your total damage vs 50% phys-resist enemies), AND on top of all that you can socket it for one additional mod of your choice. Even with the odd shattered corpse due to cold damage, I think its the best option for a horking barb, its what I use on my Trav GF leaper.
 
Re: Act 2 vs Act 5 merc?

you will want insight.
 
Re: Act 2 vs Act 5 merc?

If he's just using WC for the stun and letting 'the merc do all the killing', rather than spamming it constantly, Insight isnt as big a need, I dont think...it sounds more like a Leap barb, except stunning instead of leap-locking

But if he's spamming WC then definitely need that mana regen :)
 
Re: Act 2 vs Act 5 merc?

Rooster said:
Ill be killing both Mob packs and Bosses.
Click to expand...

1) i was going from that
2) i dont see how anyone could play a character and just sit there letting a merc kill things when he could be doing something

a non spamming singer has to be the dumbest idea ever.



 
Re: Act 2 vs Act 5 merc?

crawlingdeadman said:
2) i dont see how anyone could play a character and just sit there letting a merc kill things when he could be doing something
Click to expand...

Does horking count? Leap barb isnt that far off....heck, for that matter Fishymancer isnt either, especially on /p8 when you cant chain CEs ad infinitum...:D


 
Re: Act 2 vs Act 5 merc?

Why would fishy play on /p8 if he runs everything 10 times quicker on /p4? The statement is true, no one would :D.
 
Re: Act 2 vs Act 5 merc?

droid said:
Does horking count? Leap barb isnt that far off....heck, for that matter Fishymancer isnt either, especially on /p8 when you cant chain CEs ad infinitum...:D
Click to expand...

letting a merc kill things is different than letting summons+a merc do things.

ps. i dont play summon mancers any more since finding a good pvm bonmancer guide.



 
Re: Act 2 vs Act 5 merc?

crawlingdeadman said:
a non spamming singer has to be the dumbest idea ever.
Click to expand...

So you've never played one, huh? :rolleyes: I have. It's actually pretty effective for running travincal if you're going for gold or mf. I made a gf singer, and he worked pretty well. I don't know how well it'd run other targets, but I do know that questing/leveling was very tedious. Getting up to 79 without using combat skills is a pain.

I respecced him to a whirler to run trav for runes, and that is of course considerably faster. He holds much less goldfind, though, but I'm after runes anyway.


 
Re: Act 2 vs Act 5 merc?

When does one use a non-act 2 merc, ever? Are there any builds where an Act1, 3 or 5 merc would be the best choice?
 
Re: Act 2 vs Act 5 merc?

Of course. Some physical fighters would prefer Faith over Pride+Might aura.
Fanaticism>Concentration+Might for some people.
 
Re: Act 2 vs Act 5 merc?

I use act 1 and act 5 merc's in some builds.

The act1 ones used to be really fun for effects with +3 or more skills stacked on due to the lighting and other effects bugs.

Act4 is the one that really is hard to use but if you not useing uber gear or doing PVP I find it fun to try everything in the game at some time just to see what happens.

A merc is not really needed to beat the game anyhow.
 
Re: Act 2 vs Act 5 merc?

act 4 mercs are indeed very hard to use, particularly figuring out how to hire one :)

The reason A2 mercs are so ubiquitous is, of course, they're the only ones that can provide dual auras, and also because there's so many useful support polearms and polearm runewords - mainly Pride, Reapers, Infinity, and Insight - that there are no bow/sword equivalents for.

A1 mercs used to be useful because A2 mercs were susceptible to IM; this is no longer the case, of course. A1 mercs are still useful for Faith's Fanaticism aura as stated before; they're also sometimes useful for midlevel players for Harmony's Vigor aura, and for a source of ranged damage if you have summons already.

A3 mercs, I imagine, could be marginally useful for a pure-physical character to take out PIs, but they're relatively very weak even with top-end gear, and you'll have no option for dual-immunes anyway. And pure phys usually go with A2 merc with Reapers, which breaks most PIs anyway.

A5 mercs would be nice, if only there was a decent sword for them. The base damage of a 2h sword is less than that of a polearm, and A2 mercs attack faster with Jab than A5 mercs do with Stun/Bash, so A2 mercs actually do more damage, and have better defense/resists (except poison but eh...). A5 mercs do have faster natural regen, but its not really enough to make a noticeable difference.
 
Re: Act 2 vs Act 5 merc?

Actually the only time I recall using an Act 3 Mercenary is with my Poison Dagger Necromancer...and that's not a very common build.
 
Re: Act 2 vs Act 5 merc?

To clear things up for those that didnt get it before, yes i will just be standing there while my merc kills.
lets just say that both the Act2 might merc and the Act5 merc are wearing an eth fortitude and guillaume's helm. which would be better for killing bosses(and with what weapon) and which would be a better pit runner(which weapon). again please remember that im not interested in the different auras on weapons unless you are thinking it helps make the merc better then the other Merc option (and only the merc, ie..no Insight)
My thinking is that a barb merc will kill bosses faster with a Last Wish(w/over the 95% Crushing Blow) as well as the other nice mods and damage.
As far as pit runs, im unsure if throwing a Death or BOTD on a barb will kill as fast or faster then a might merc with a BOTD or Reaper(which someone made some good points about) or maybe a diff weap.

droid said:
A5 mercs would be nice, if only there was a decent sword for them. The base damage of a 2h sword is less than that of a polearm, and A2 mercs attack faster with Jab than A5 mercs do with Stun/Bash, so A2 mercs actually do more damage, and have better defense/resists (except poison but eh...).
Click to expand...
As far as the stats, the Ultimate merc guide shows an Act5 merc actually having better Def/resists then a same lvl Act2 might merc.
Im not sure on the speed though (dont understand how to read the Atk Freq that the guide lists) so hopefully someone can comment about that. lastly I swear I had just read somewhere that act2 mercs can only use jab with spears, not with polearms (confirm or deny plz)


 
Re: Act 2 vs Act 5 merc?

Guillaumes, Fort, LW means his only LL comes from the 10% CtC LT, which is much too low to be reliable vs bosses, who get IIRC 4x damage bonus vs mercs. Really, mercs are very poorly suited to solo Hell act bosses, who cant be leeched, can't be chilled, are immune to Holy Freeze and ITD, and who get that damage bonus vs minions. Decrep does work vs act bosses, though, so again Reapers would seem to be the best option, especially since most act bosses have physical resists, which reduces CBs anyway.

Jab works with any class of weapons, as far as I know and in my own experience - and I only use polearms on mine. Merc jab does 2 quick strikes, so if you ever see him "doubletap" an enemy's life, you know he's jabbing.

Incidentally, a 35% CB chance (Guillaumes) when attacking twice per cycle (Jab) is the same as about a 54% chance when attacking once (42% chance to CB once, 12% chance to CB twice = 0.54 net CBs per cycle)
 
Re: Act 2 vs Act 5 merc?

droid said:
Incidentally, a 35% CB chance (Guillaumes) when attacking twice per cycle (Jab) is the same as about a 54% chance when attacking once (42% chance to CB once, 12% chance to CB twice = 0.54 net CBs per cycle)
Click to expand...

sum((2 choose x)*0.35^x*0.65^(2-x),x,1,2)=.5775

But, does the act 2 merc attack twice in the time that a barb merc attacks? If not, then it's not that simple. Edit: the german attack speed calc suggests that when using a 0 WSM weapon, an act 2 merc jabs at 7 frames and a barb attacks at 7.5. So......there really isn't much difference at all. Barbs attack quickly by simply having better attack speeds, whereas the town guard uses a skill to gain speed.

Long story short: CB works best when you attack quickly.

I've used an eth Death CB on an act 5 merc to great effect, though it was probably not the most efficient. I was using it on a themed assassin: Barbara. Whirlsin, with Barb merc. :)


 
Re: Act 2 vs Act 5 merc?

?

German calc shows me, at 0 WSM no IAS, an 8 frame Jab (2 hits per Jab) for A2 merc vs a 16 frame attack for the A5 merc. Which means the A2 merc is actually landing 4 times as many blows over time.
 
Re: Act 2 vs Act 5 merc?

Thought I should mention that a barb mercs attack does hit twice, don't know if your calc if factoring that in.
 
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