1.09 Assassin Planning Questions/Build Proposal

[RobbyD]

1.09 Assassin Planning Questions/Build Proposal

My Necro is making good progress, so I'm feeling good enough about his chances to start planning on my 1.09 Assassin (#7 of the Sept). I've been reading some guides and gathering some information, and I've decided to make a claw-wielding MA Assassin.

Thing is, I've never played an Assassin, and they apparently changed quite a bit for 1.10+... as such, planning for this character is a bit challenging - so I'd like to see if any 1.09 Sin Vets out there can help me out with some guidance.

Here's what I understand about 1.09 Assassins:

1. Claws are a must - bugged CM and broken non-claw AR make any other weapon a real drop.
2. Kicks are weak due to no kick damage on boots.
3. Fade doesn't give PDR, nor does Natalya's Odium (thus ending my desperation to find a Nat's Mark to make a Natalya's Sin).
4. Pheonix Strike MA Sins were like Buriza Bowazons - basically 95% of all Sins you saw.

So, I'm of course planning on maxing Claw Mastery and PS. I'd also like Claws of Thunder for the superior lightning damage and a Shadow Master, but I'd also like Burst of Speed. Here's the deal, unlike the other characters I've built in 1.09 (other than the Druid), this one really seems to be a skill point allocation challenge (the Druid still has a way to go at level 83, though he's basically retired).

Bartuc's is the hands-down Claw of Choice in 1.09, and I have a nice collection of those, so that will obviously be her weapon. I also plan to use that BKWB the Sorc found, and a melee character must have lightning absorb, so TGod's Vigor will be a must.

So, here's some questions:

1. A guide I read suggested Naj's Light Plate as a good choice for armor - I really like this idea since I have actually gotten one of these - does BoS overcome any heavy armor penalties?
2. Dual Bartuc's or Bartuc's + shield? I have Stormshield, Moser's, Whistan's, etc. available, but I'm also thinking of a style choice - Taebaek's Glory. I'm not against pumping dex - I understand that claws get damage bonus from both STR and DEX. Even if I go Claw+Shield, I'd have dual Bartuc's on switch for casting.
3. Is it worth the points to max Shadow Master? That would have to be the fourth maxed skill (with Claw Mastery, PS, and CoT), so that precludes pumping BoS, Weapon Block, etc. +skills should get a point to a decent level though.

I guess I'd like feedback on my outline of a build and gear:

Str for gear
Dex for blocking (if shield)
Vit rest
Ene base

20 CM
20 CoT
20 PS
20 SM
~5 BoS

Helm: Stealskull or Death Casque (see below) [note - don't have an extra Vamp's available]
Ammy: Highlord's Wrath or Order Torc (see below)
Armor: Naj's Light Plate
Weapon/Shield: Dual Bartuc's or Bartucs + (Storshield/Whistan's/Moser's/Taebaek's)
Belt: Thundergod's Vigor
Gloves: LoH or Storm Hold (see below)
Rings: BKWB + RF
Boots: Dire Trample (see below)
Charms: 2x Mentalist's GC and various resists/life/damage/AR charms

Death Casque
Circlet
Defense: 25
Durability: 21 of 35
Required Level: 27
Item Version: Expansion
Item Level: 76
Fingerprint: 0xd1679c25
+10 to Energy
Fire Resist +19%
Lightning Resist +36%
20% Faster Run/Walk
+1 to Assassin Skill Levels

Order Torc
Amulet
Required Level: 51
Item Version: Expansion
Item Level: 90
Fingerprint: 0x6b72a964
+10 to Strength
+9 to Minimum Damage
Fire Resist +46%
Lightning Resist +19%
Cold Resist +19%
Poison Resist +19%
6% Mana stolen per hit
+2  to Shadow Discipline Skills (Assassin Only)

Storm Hold
Sharkskin Gloves
Defense: 73
Durability: 14 of 14
Required Strength: 20
Required Level: 52
Item Version: Expansion
Item Level: 93
Fingerprint: 0x7973e3d
+15 to Life
+80% Enhanced Defense
+13 to Attack Rating
3% Life stolen per hit
7% Chance of Crushing Blow
+2  to Martial Art Skills (Assassin Only)
Repairs 1 durability in 33 seconds

Dire Trample
Heavy Boots
Defense: 12
Durability: 8 of 14
Required Strength: 18
Required Level: 52
Item Version: Expansion
Item Level: 90
Fingerprint: 0x3f95ecc5
+58% Enhanced Defense
Lightning Resist +25%
Cold Resist +13%
Replenish Life +3
25% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items
20% Faster Run/Walk

Am I missing something obvious here? Is PS MA the way to go, and, if so, am I missing the boat on the skill selections? Should I keep crafting Blood Gloves for a better set? Is SM worth the investment?

Thanks for any feedback.

 

[Serdash]

Re: 1.09 Assassin Planning Questions/Build Proposal

Honestly? I would get rid of CoT and dump those points into Death Sentry. The CE is just as powerful as it is now, and it's so ungodly useful in cows you won't regret the choice.

I'll try to dig up a LITTLE more information than that, look towards an edit in the future.

EDIT:
Here we go. I dug up "ClawsOfFury", Icebird's level 99 assassin from 1.09. This was a part of his "Endless" 7x99ers in 1.09.

http://www.purediablo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178233

I tried to dig up Ryondaahl's assassin, but it doesn't seem he had the chance to post it here before, well... sad things happened. :<

 

[RobbyD]

Re: 1.09 Assassin Planning Questions/Build Proposal

Thanks, Serdash - I knew about Icebird but had not thought of looking up his build. It looks like he would have changed the skills if he did it again, but it has inspired a train of thought (scary, I know)...

I really like the idea of PDR that is missing from the 1.09 version of Natalya's Odium, and I have a couple of Stormshields in my stash. The boots I listed were chosen due to resists, but now I'm thinking along a different line... being the source of CB for Blade Shield to deliver, but using the helm for resists and PDR instead of more CB.

Goblin toes and those Blood Gloves would work well with Blade Shield, and I have some Trapper Skillers that weren't going to see use, but they would come in handy for a build that includes Blade Shield and Death Sentry.

I still want good resists and nice PDR, and going through my stash, I noted some Rockstoppers that have never been put to serious use, including this specimen:

Rockstopper
Sallet
Defense: 188
Durability: 10 of 18
Required Strength: 43
Required Level: 31
Item Version: Expansion
Item Level: 93
Fingerprint: 0x7356157f
+15 to Vitality
+195% Enhanced Defense
Damage Reduced by 10%
Fire Resist +50%
Lightning Resist +23%
Cold Resist +40%
30% Faster Hit Recovery

That should make up for any resists lost by using Goblin Toes, and an Ort or a nice jewel can fill any LR gap (though Stormshield has 25 and will likely get a pDiamond if I go that way)

Maybe Claw + Stormshield for MA melee, then switch to dual Bartuc's for BS casting and DS bombs.

Ah, the rush of planning a character, even if I'm shamelessly anachronistic about it!

 

[Serdash]

Re: 1.09 Assassin Planning Questions/Build Proposal

Keep in mind a couple of things:
In 1.09 the most important resistance was still lightning, the others are pretty much negligible especially in cows.

PDR% was capped at 75%, so if you want to maximize this, Stormshield + Shaftstop + SoE + Vamp Gaze would be a nice combo, not to mention it'd provide a good chunk of life leech.

You'll want to still have quite a good amount of +skills since your biggest source of cow damage to get some corpses going will most likely be spamming meteors from PS. Shaftstop should be plenty as far as PDR% goes, maybe toss on a SoE, I don't see stormshield being necessary. In fact, I see it hindering your kill speed. Don't forget the assassin has the single most powerful crowd control skills in the game at her disposal. MB and CoS are still powerful even in 1.09.

IMO if you're planning on snagging crushing blow with everything, I'd go with Goblin Toe + Guillaumes(Ort for LR if you need it badly), and some blood gloves. Stick with Dual Bartucs, toss on a shaftstop and a SoE, a good rare amulet or whatever you can get your hands on, a ravenfrost, and whatever other ring you prefer. You'll be gg.

 

[Eric Xanthu]

Re: 1.09 Assassin Planning Questions/Build Proposal

1.09 Blender was one of my all-time favorite builds. It's the main reason I got into version switching. With hit freezes (Ice Blink), Crushing blow (Black, Goblin ftw) and Blade Shield, you have one of the most sublime experiences in D2. I don't know if there are any guides still out there for it, but it plays itself.

 

[Serdash]

Re: 1.09 Assassin Planning Questions/Build Proposal

Keeping in mind that hit freezes target is a bit of an iffy mod to have on an assassin that's using Death Sentry. Corpse Explosion doesn't work on puddles of water.

EDIT:
Also, how far are you planning to take this assassin? Were you just getting her to Mat and that was it or did you want to plan on some cows as well?

 

[Eric Xanthu]

Re: 1.09 Assassin Planning Questions/Build Proposal

No need for CE when a crushing blow to a frozen target kills it instantly. With the Shield putting freeze and CB on all targets within melee range, that's a lot of ice cubes. Granted, it's not AoE.

 

[jiansonz]

Re: 1.09 Assassin Planning Questions/Build Proposal

Are you playing HC or not? Becuase that will influence gear choice and tactics quite a bit, methinks.


My only 1.09 assassin was a Phoenix Striker, in SC. But after I had put 15 points in PS, she found Tiamat´s Rebuke in late NM. After that, I barely used PS because it wasn´t needed any more. :badteeth:

(OK, so it was on players 1, because I didn´t know you could change it. All my 1.09 Pats/Mats ended up being level 73, as that is what a single-pass full clear on players 1 gets you to in v1.09)

 

[RobbyD]

Re: 1.09 Assassin Planning Questions/Build Proposal

Thanks everyone for your help. This is my least-understood class, and I'm learning a lot by reading your responses.

Keep in mind a couple of things:
In 1.09 the most important resistance was still lightning, the others are pretty much negligible especially in cows.

That's why Thundergod's Vigor is part of her planned gear. I'm trying out max LR with MDR from String and Skin with the Necro, and it doesn't stop the sparks from hurting, so TGod's will be her belt. For MSLE in 1.09, TGod's is simply THE belt of choice. The only reason my Barb doesn't wear one is because he wields Lightsabre (which, for some reason, doesn't appear to work as well as TGod's).

PDR% was capped at 75%, so if you want to maximize this, Stormshield + Shaftstop + SoE + Vamp Gaze would be a nice combo, not to mention it'd provide a good chunk of life leech.

I don't need to necessarily max it, just get it around 50% (I like Stormshield + Shako on my Sorc). I don't have a spare Gaze (being used by other characters - remember this is character #7), but I do have Stormshield, Shaftstop, and Rockstopper or Shako that can be put to use.

You'll want to still have quite a good amount of +skills since your biggest source of cow damage to get some corpses going will most likely be spamming meteors from PS. Shaftstop should be plenty as far as PDR% goes, maybe toss on a SoE, I don't see stormshield being necessary. In fact, I see it hindering your kill speed. Don't forget the assassin has the single most powerful crowd control skills in the game at her disposal. MB and CoS are still powerful even in 1.09.

That's interesting - I had not thought about MB and CoS - are those skills you need to max or will +skills work with them?

IMO if you're planning on snagging crushing blow with everything, I'd go with Goblin Toe + Guillaumes(Ort for LR if you need it badly), and some blood gloves. Stick with Dual Bartucs, toss on a shaftstop and a SoE, a good rare amulet or whatever you can get your hands on, a ravenfrost, and whatever other ring you prefer. You'll be gg.

Well, see my original post - my planning is for Naj's Light Plate, BKWB, RF, and an ammy with +2 Shadow (it's not +2 Assassin, but otherwise it's a godly ammy). I don't think the extra crushing blow from Guillaumes trumps the PDR and huge resists of Rockstopper or +2 skills, PDR, life/mana of Shako (I have one available for this build).

Also, how far are you planning to take this assassin? Were you just getting her to Mat and that was it or did you want to plan on some cows as well?

I really don't know - the minimum goal is to Mat her, as that will finish out my 1.09 Septumvariate. My other 1.09 goal is to get a Vex from Countess - if that doesn't happen until the Assassin is done, she might do some Countess running. My MeteOrb and BurizaZon do cows just fine, so I'm not in the need for a cow-runner.

1.09 Blender was one of my all-time favorite builds. It's the main reason I got into version switching. With hit freezes (Ice Blink), Crushing blow (Black, Goblin ftw) and Blade Shield, you have one of the most sublime experiences in D2. I don't know if there are any guides still out there for it, but it plays itself.

No need for CE when a crushing blow to a frozen target kills it instantly. With the Shield putting freeze and CB on all targets within melee range, that's a lot of ice cubes. Granted, it's not AoE.

Now you have GOTTEN MY ATTENTION! I've read some about a Blade Shield variant - apparently a Hone Sundan or a Minotaur are both popular weapons for that. So you are saying that with Iceblink and some CB, the Blade Shield will shatter the baddies all by itself?

I'll look for some more info on this - it sounds very interesting!

Are you playing HC or not? Becuase that will influence gear choice and tactics quite a bit, methinks.

My only 1.09 assassin was a Phoenix Striker, in SC. But after I had put 15 points in PS, she found Tiamat´s Rebuke in late NM. After that, I barely used PS because it wasn´t needed any more. :badteeth:

(OK, so it was on players 1, because I didn´t know you could change it. All my 1.09 Pats/Mats ended up being level 73, as that is what a single-pass full clear on players 1 gets you to in v1.09)

SC, P8 for as much of the game as possible (Normal and Nightmare for certain). I have a collection of Tiamat's Rebukes, but I generally use that for a character without a built-in elemental attack.

 

[jiansonz]

Re: 1.09 Assassin Planning Questions/Build Proposal

That's interesting - I had not thought about MB and CoS - are those skills you need to max or will +skills work with them?

Strong characters will not even WANT their +skills to work with CoS, because you can´t recast it until it has run its course, and this timer increases with skill levels.

Weaker assassins (untwinked/variant/tourney chars) may appreciate the longer-lasting effect and more enemy -Def., though.


As for MB, 1 point is usually good enough, since you can spam it if needed.

 

[Eric Xanthu]

Re: 1.09 Assassin Planning Questions/Build Proposal

So you are saying that with Iceblink and some CB, the Blade Shield will shatter the baddies all by itself?

Yes.

The big nerf to Blade Shield in 1.10+ was that most mods were not translated through the Shield anymore. Not so in 1.09, where iirc everything (or at least close) is passed through the Shield. One reason I liked the build so much (other than the extremely fast killing) was the junk gear.

One thing to keep in mind (again, iirc): the freezing algorithm includes level difference, so you have to edge out your enemies' level for maximum effect. Once you do...you can level to 99 while eating a sandwich.

 

[jdkerr]

Re: 1.09 Assassin Planning Questions/Build Proposal

Once you do...you can level to 99 while eating a sandwich.

That is one huge sandwich.

 

[RobbyD]

Re: 1.09 Assassin Planning Questions/Build Proposal

Yes.

The big nerf to Blade Shield in 1.10+ was that most mods were not translated through the Shield anymore. Not so in 1.09, where iirc everything (or at least close) is passed through the Shield. One reason I liked the build so much (other than the extremely fast killing) was the junk gear.

One thing to keep in mind (again, iirc): the freezing algorithm includes level difference, so you have to edge out your enemies' level for maximum effect. Once you do...you can level to 99 while eating a sandwich.

Wow - exploiting 1.09 imbalances that were nerfed in 1.10+ is a big part of this project, so this really appeals to me! This is at the level of +3 skills lightning hose Act 1 mercs and piercing GA for fun 1.09 imbalances and bugs to exploit. So... couple questions:

1) What do you do with PI's? Revert to PS or CoT?
2) Does weapon damage impact this at all?
3) Is this a viable, solo, P8 (for normal and NM), start-to-finish build?
4) Does this build have an Achilles' Heel?

 

[Eric Xanthu]

Re: 1.09 Assassin Planning Questions/Build Proposal

Now you're at my limits...I'm an old man and my memory is not so good.

1. I don't remember but it probably involved Tiamat's Rebuke and Aldur's Whatever. Since there are gobs of points to spare in 1.09, PS would work great. I have a funny feeling that crushing blow worked on the frozen PIs though. You'll have to test that yourself.
2. I used a Black Scourge but I don't think weapon damage had much if anything to do with the build. I think weapon speed affected how often the Shield hit.
3. Yes? I can't say for sure because it was the Bnet days and I may have been partied at times. P8, easily.
4. I don't remember. Range, I guess...you have to be in the face of everything you fight. You also lose out on Shaft for PDR.

Come on...isn't the fun of doing this finding out all the answers yourself?

 

[RobbyD]

Re: 1.09 Assassin Planning Questions/Build Proposal

Now you're at my limits...I'm an old man and my memory is not so good.

1. I don't remember but it probably involved Tiamat's Rebuke and Aldur's Whatever. Since there are gobs of points to spare in 1.09, PS would work great. I have a funny feeling that crushing blow worked on the frozen PIs though. You'll have to test that yourself.
2. I used a Black Scourge but I don't think weapon damage had much if anything to do with the build. I think weapon speed affected how often the Shield hit.
3. Yes? I can't say for sure because it was the Bnet days and I may have been partied at times. P8, easily.
4. I don't remember. Range, I guess...you have to be in the face of everything you fight. You also lose out on Shaft for PDR.

Come on...isn't the fun of doing this finding out all the answers yourself?

You're probably thinking of Baranar's Star, since Aldur's Rhythm, while a very nice weapon, has no elemental damage. What do you think of "Strength" in a Greater Talon? That's -30 base speed, Scourge/Knout is -10.

If CB works on frozen PI's, this may take the cake for the sharpest serving of gormet fromage that 1.09 has to offer!

I take it CBF monsters will not be susceptible to this effect, though?

At any rate, it appears this build is less dependent on skill allocation that gear selection. It sounds like HFT+CB is the required ingredient, and a point + skillers in Blade Shield. Sounds like this could be like the Thorns experiment with my Schaeferdin, but with hopefully more spectacular results.

I've even thought of a name: "Osterizer"

This has gotten me giddy to do this character - thanks a million, Eric Xanthu! This will make a sizable contribution to my 1.09 guide once I've had a chance to check it out.


********EDIT********

Some research dug up this discussion about the skill in 1.09:

I don't know what your experience was in 1.09 but in that version, Blade Shield was the assassin's little secret of unrelenting awesomeness.

Just months before the era of 1.10, there was a small but dedicated cadre of us at diablo2.net who were finalizing what the primary investigator/tester called the Blender. It began when he (I cannot remember fully who) tried to make Blade Shield work for cowing. In the cow level, one is not ever at a loss of many monsters of a single type descending in all directions, thereby maximizing BS's omnidirectional advantage without having to contend, necessarily, with making a character with versatility.

He started by achieving 100% CB, and at the time, the range of BS was the same as the weapon wielded, so he used a "Black" runeworded scourge (range 3). I also get this memory (perhaps apocryphal) that BS also depended on your equipped weapon speed, etc.

In any case, both CB and Hit Freezes Monsters were carried by BS, so there was a small group of little assassins wearing guillaume's face, black scourges, iceblink, and goblin toes, running around and causing Hell Bovines essentially to *shatter* upon impact. It was a little out of hand. Apparently, the reports ran that this Blender assassin was nonpareil at defeating act bosses in a matter of seconds (counted upon one hand). So it seemed clear that if BNet were aware of exactly what was going on (and it wasn't really at all sure if they did, since it's not like there was a plethora of BS sins in 1.09), 1.10 would have to drastically address the insane properties of BS and the blade skills in general, which did, of course, happen.

Ooooohhhhh yyyeeeaaahhhhh!

This may be the headliner for the "Why Play 1.09?" section of my guide if it works out like it looks like it might!

 

[Eric Xanthu]

Re: 1.09 Assassin Planning Questions/Build Proposal

That's pretty much exactly my memory of events. I wasn't in the group he describes, but I definitely was "in on the secret." Between that and the PDR DTM ES-Meteorb...your excitement might get me to fire up the old 1.09 gang I have in deep storage.

Thanks for the correct on Bstar. Hard to believe I forgot the 1.09 omni-weapon.

What's the range on Greater Talon?

EDIT: you're also reminding me what a neat place Bnet was once upon a time. Lots of little communities, "secrets" of a sort, tons of builds...nothing like what it later became. I've been an SP exile for years and years, but there's no doubt Bnet was a special creation.

 

[RobbyD]

Re: 1.09 Assassin Planning Questions/Build Proposal

That's pretty much exactly my memory of events. I wasn't in the group he describes, but I definitely was "in on the secret." Between that and the PDR DTM ES-Meteorb...your excitement might get me to fire up the old 1.09 gang I have in deep storage.

Fire it up and join my 1.09 Hamachi group! I'll be glad to help you out to get restarted, and there's a couple folks that play it from time to time.

I hate to ask, since I have a PDR MeteOrb in 1.09 (current cow champ) - but what's DTM ES?

 

[Eric Xanthu]

Re: 1.09 Assassin Planning Questions/Build Proposal

Damage to Mana, Energy Shield. She can't die. Stand in the middle of cows, rain down meteors. Laugh while they try to hurt you.

 

[RobbyD]

Re: 1.09 Assassin Planning Questions/Build Proposal

Damage to Mana, Energy Shield. She can't die. Stand in the middle of cows, rain down meteors. Laugh while they try to hurt you.

oh... I really wish I had known about that one! I DO happen to know how badly Meteor pwns cows, though.

 

[Serdash]

Re: 1.09 Assassin Planning Questions/Build Proposal

There are still some 1.09 holdouts floating around. Some on other forums.

Damage reduced meteor sorc was pretty nice as I recall, but probably still doesn't top the almighty Nova sorc. (At least not a GOOD nova sorc )