Blade Fury Analysis

Re: Blade Fury Analysis

Ceramic Weasel I have played Diablo II for many years but this is my first assassin. I am planning to build one with twenty points in Dragon Talon, Blade Fury, and Venom with the goal of combining the best aspects of the Warrior Monk with those of a maximized Blade Fury assassin.

My gear will be an ethereal 275% enhanced damage Fleshripper, Gore Rider myrmidon greaves and Andariel's Visage. All other equipment choices are open. My goal for Dragon Talon is an 8/3 attack which, if I calculated correctly, is achievable with Andariel's Visage and a shael rune in the Fleshripper.

My questions concern Blade Fury and they are as follow:

How will switching from Fortitude to Enigma adversely affect the damage of my level thirty Blade Fury with all else being equal? Will the strength I gain offset much of the enhanced damage I will lose? And lastly how much in terms of real damage would Blade Fury gain from equipping an act two mercenary with a Pride rune word that features a level twenty concentration aura ? Thank you for your analysis of Blade Fury in this thread.
 
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Re: Blade Fury Analysis

As a dagger, Fleshripper doesn't gain as much from strength as many other weapons do. Like a claw, it gets partial bonuses from strength and dexterity. As such, the ~70 strength gained from Enigma translates only to about a 0.52 multiplier, whereas Fortitude adds a 3.0 multiplier.

Assuming no other equipment than the items you mentioned, using the formula that I use in my examples, the difference on a Level 30 BF is around 1,200 damage.

The effectiveness of high level Blade Fury relies quite heavily on off-weapon ED% and Deadly/Critical Strike. Consequentially, damage enhancing auras from a mercenary can play a big role. It's difficult to give numbers without specifics on STR/DEX and other equipment items, but very roughly the total physical damage, excluding CB/OW will probably work out something like:
Code:
            No Aura        Pride+Might
           ----------------------------
Fortitude | 2,700          5,500
Enigma    | 1,500          4,300
 
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Re: Blade Fury Analysis

The advantage with claws (or dagger), is that when you increase your dext, you increase your dammages and you base ar, so i think it's more worthfull to pump dext over strenght...
I've tested the shurisin with a base 150 vita, she has no problem to survive in hell hardcore ladder (the build was with full natalya set, but, my build was not good enough to deals with full pack of strong monster, because i have more strong than dext) :)
 
Re: Blade Fury Analysis

This has been unbelievably informative, thanks so much to Ceramic Weasel and to all of you. I was thinking of making this pvp (like a lot of other people it seems) regardless of its difficulty and the probability that it will fail (I made a pvp leap barb, so you can see how I roll), and I was hoping I could post my gear and skill setup here and get some input. Here's what I was thinking:

Cham'd Guillaumes
Fort
160% ed monarch or maybe phoenix
Eth beast ettin axe (while fury or chaos may do more damage, beast gives you 80% more attack rating which is, as always, desperately needed)
Angelics
Dungos or maybe Arach
Cleglaws for knockback and slow (yes, slow may not be exactly gm, but cmon, I'm operating at something of a disadvantage here)
Gores of course
Torch/Anni and cta/spirit on switch, with a demon limb in the stash for enchant
As many ar charms as I can get my hands on, and hopefully 9x trap gcs

then the skills would be:

20 blade fury
20 blade sentinel
20 venom
15 fade
One point into prereqs and shadow warrior (I'm not much good with mindblast so I was thinking I might let the shadow warrior do it for me if that was viable)
Remaining points into blade shield

Stats would be the usual stat to use gear and then rest into vit.

How does it sound? Please help.
 
Re: Blade Fury Analysis

I would also like to know, if anyone knows (seems fairly simple to test) whether, if I equip a fool's claw on my off-hand and something else on my main hand the attack rating will carry over to my blade fury? Because if not I still have to go with beast over claws.
 
Re: Blade Fury Analysis

Thanks, beast it is then. It's a shame to lose that critical strike, but I need the attack rating. According to my calculator if I use the enchant from demon limb and the 80% from beast's fanat with angelics I'll have at least 10k before charms, and that's really not bad.
 
Re: Blade Fury Analysis

I only have limited experience using BF in real PvP situations, and that was with 1pt BF. My feeling is that, even fully optimized, it's not going to perform that well.

The limited range and non-seeking nature of BF suggests that striking your opponents will require more than just good AR. Also, transitioning from movement to attacking and then back again doesn't flow as quickly as it does with other skills, particularly those popular in PvP.

If you intend to try it, however, please post your experiences and opinions to let us know how it turned out.


The gear you list looks pretty good. I hadn't really considered Beast as a source of AR, though I wonder how it compares damage-wise to Baranar's Star (+200% AR), etc.

Phoenix should work better in PvP situations, as striking will be a less frequent occurance, and you'll probably want to be firing in short bursts rather than staying rooted in one spot for too long.

Faster run/walk on your charms may be really helpful, depending on how you plan to play it. I imagined the tactics to be similar to an Amazon, but you could be planning something different.

The frequency at which Shadow Master uses skills is based on the skill level, so you may want to consider putting an extra point or two into Mind Blast if you want her to use it more often.
 
Re: Blade Fury Analysis

Thanks for the info on shadow master, that's very good to know. And yes, I was thinking of tactics similar to an amazon, also I was going to make fairly regular use of blade sentinel as an alternate attack, deterrent, etc. You're very right about the faster run/walk small charms, and I should stock up on them. I would like to know how it compares to Baranar's Star in damage, especially eth, and also how it compares to an ethereal Astreon's Iron Ward (150-200% AR). Don't suppose I could bother you for some tests? I don't have a second computer to upload a barbarian to test the damages on, or I would do it myself. No worries if you're all tested out though.
 
Re: Blade Fury Analysis

I just found a visionary basinet, but that's the only mod on it. Using it would add roughly 2k to my attack rating (assuming I have base dex which is all I need for beast). Is it worth it to trade guillaumes in for this, or are the mods on guillaume's too good to pass up?
 
Re: Blade Fury Analysis

I've been messing around with the numbers on a furysin for a while, (since probably about 2 months or so ago), and I'm surprised why no one has yet to make any mention about CoS with BF, as that was my very first consideration for solving the AR issue.

....

at level 28 the -def% caps at -95%, and lasts 35 seconds.

....

In PvP, the duration works out well because constantly casting CoS would make you vulnerable to attacks, and make it more difficult to attack. This would not help against some classes, but slay most others. Barbs and Dins might **** you, but I don't think Blade Fury is the skill of choice in dealing with BvCs or smiters anyway....

.... while casters like windies and necs will have no enhance defense and become very easy to hit with CoS.

I really don't know how a Blade Fury sin would duel at all, but I know for sure that you should have CoS no less then level 28, the increase in cth will probably be higher than the AR increase from beast.

You'll have to crunch your own numbers, of course, but remember there is a -12% decrease in enemy defense applied to total defense after CoS effects enhance defense, gained from eth runes. Just mentioning this because some weapons, such as Death RW, and Fury have this rune in them.

If your giving up enigma, you should know that with a high level of BoS, you can move vary fast (with the right gear/charms).


 
Re: Blade Fury Analysis

I only have limited experience using BF in real PvP situations, and that was with 1pt BF. My feeling is that, even fully optimized, it's not going to perform that well.

The limited range and non-seeking nature of BF suggests that striking your opponents will require more than just good AR. Also, transitioning from movement to attacking and then back again doesn't flow as quickly as it does with other skills, particularly those popular in PvP.
They are very unorthodox and maybe a bit hit or miss on effectiveness, but even you underestimate them ;)


 
Re: Blade Fury Analysis

You make an excellent point about CoS on players with no %ed overall, but I'd be unable to get it to level 28 even if I maxed it. I actually have no +skill gear on the character whatsoever, and so even with cta I only have +5 to all skills. And I may not have the requisite leftover skillpoints to max it, but I'll see what I can do. I was considering putting extra points into shadow warrior because apparently they gain four resist per level and have no cap, thus enabling them to be immunized against elemental damage. I also might put my spare points into burst of speed so I can use it or fade depending on the person I'm dueling (although the only people who fade is totally useless against are hammerdins and bone necros, because it also gives %dr.)
 
Re: Blade Fury Analysis

If you're taking it into pvp, and can't get 5 skills, there's more lacking than just your skill selection.
 
Re: Blade Fury Analysis

Not really. Melee gear isn't heavy on the +skill and that's basically what this is. Fort, guillaumes, phoenix, dungos, beast (I might use death instead), angelics, cleglaws, gores. Hopefully I'll be able to get 9x trap gcs, but those won't add to my cloak of shadows.
 
Re: Blade Fury Analysis

Not really. Melee gear isn't heavy on the +skill and that's basically what this is. Fort, guillaumes, phoenix, dungos, beast (I might use death instead), angelics, cleglaws, gores. Hopefully I'll be able to get 9x trap gcs, but those won't add to my cloak of shadows. It's sort of unfortunate when you get down to it because it's a build that benefits both from a caster setup (lots of +skill) and a fighter setup (lots of %ed), so you have to choose one or the other.

Whups. My internet's a bit wonky. Didn't mean to doublepost.
 
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Re: Blade Fury Analysis

Highlords, Arach, trangs, circ, and raven/something is what I'd go for. nets more DS, base dmg, and a little less AR, but easily solves skill problem.

Depending on if you'd like to be mobile, possibly prompting for an enigma over fort.
 
Re: Blade Fury Analysis

That seems nice in theory, but with that setup you'll barely have enough attack rating even to hit a windy or a bone necro. Even if I used dual perf ravens that's about five hundred attack rating as compared to 2,040 from angelics. And enigma would be nice, but since the damage isn't all that high on a blade fury build to start I think fort is the way to go. Although a nice circlet wouldn't go amiss if I could find one. Right now though I'm torn between Death (a good bit more damage, about 1.4k less total AR) and Beast (less damage, 1.4k more AR, and 25-40 str which helps me use a monarch)
 
Re: Blade Fury Analysis

Don't suppose I could bother you for some tests?
I don't really have the time to run tests on each of them, but putting them through a calculator I came up with some numbers. Based loosely on lvl 35 BF, Fort, Phoenix, Gores, etc. and uniques socketed with Lo runes:

Beast: ~6.5k
B. Star: ~5.7k
Astreon's: ~5.7k

Astreon's would be better than B. Star though, due to the Slow, CB and unresistable magic damage.

I suppose Guillaume's isn't optimal in PvP, would be better off with a +2 Sin visionary circlet, or maybe CoA. The loss of Deadly Strike is tough though, since it's lacking on other gear.

Highlords, Arach, trangs, circ, and raven/something is what I'd go for.
Certainly more DS would be nice, but losing Angelics will totally wreck your AR.

Perhaps you're right that I'm underestimating the potential of a Furysin in PvP, but I'm used to playing fairly competitively in PvP games and don't want to cause anyone to waste their time. I'd be delighted to learn that I'm wrong.

I really don't know how a Blade Fury sin would duel at all, but I know for sure that you should have CoS no less then level 28
This may work for casters, provided you can catch them with your first CoS (you certainly wouldn't want to miss and have to wait for the duration to expire). The real troublesome targets, however, are high defense characters, and CoS won't help much at all against them. If you're going to build a Furysin with these targets in mind, then the usefulness of CoS is really diminished.



 
Re: Blade Fury Analysis

Well, believe me, I don't build a furysin with the idea that she'll be able to wreck any class, or even the expectation that she'll be particularly successful. I'm really looking more for a fun play that can kill some people. If I were to manage to find a visionary assassin circlet I would lose the guillaumes and replace my beast with death, adding the necessary deadly strike. Although with no beast and no guillaumes I lose a minimum of 40 strength and as much as 55, which hurts my vit. Arach might be better than dungos, and of course everyone wants a berber coa but they're tough to get your hands on (at least for people of limited means like myself).
 
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