Help with hell mode, please.

M

Moodle

New member
Help with hell mode, please.

Howdy all.

I've recently finished Nightmare mode on my Necro, who is now level a 75 Summoner, with fairly decent gear.

The problem, Hell is well... Hell...

I'm dying continuesly trying to progress through the monastary on Act 1. Either, My skeles wont do enough damage, or I take to much damage to fast.
I don't think my build is bad, or my stats. (Read below for build/stats)

I use the Act 2 Offensive merc for his aura, 200-500 Damage, 2100 Defense.

My stats and build are as follow (Only the important things that I use)

Life: 606
Mana: 420

32 Skele Mastery
29 Raise Skele
7 In all other Summoning spells.

9 Amplify Damage
7 Decrepify
7 Confuse (I like the CC for tight situations)

26 Poison Nova.

(Most Pre Reqs will be 7-8 through +skills)


So the question is, am I to low? is it just meant to be this frustrating? :scratchchin:
 
Re: Help with hell mode, please.

From the information given, your character level is just fine. I usually hit Hell between 72 and 75, so that's fine.

My initial reaction when I saw your HP, though, is "THAT'S your problem." Your life is way too low. What was your stat allocation? And how are your resists?

You skills look a bit schitzofrenic, too. If I were to make a guess, you're basically a summonmancer, but you added poison just so you feel like you're doing something important. I can only guess that your poison isn't doing much damage. Couple your low life with the fact that you're constantly putting yourself close to your enemies to hit them with poison and... well, I'd say that's where your deeds are coming from.

Lastly, are you using Corpse Explosion? Contrary to the name, CE is what makes a summonmancer; if this isn't maxed, drop as many points in as you can from here on out. All you need is a single corpse, and then suddenly a whole screen of enemies is down. Your skellies usually don't produce the first corpse; that's where your Might merc comes in. Make sure he's got a good/great weapon, and then that first corpse will drop pretty quickly.
 
Re: Help with hell mode, please.

Summons:
No Golem? You need at least a point in Iron Golem but you'll use the Mud Man mostly. Put a point in Golem Mastery while you're at it.
No Summons Resist? At least one point so your skellies and such have at least some resistance.
No Revive? Make the bad guys serve you even in death. The Dolls are my favorites.

Poison and Bone:
No Corpse Explosion? Should be maxed. The combination of CE with AD is the equivalent of a small suitcase nuke.
Put a spare point in Bone Armor.
No more points in this tree.

Curses:
Put one point in every single curse skill available and work toward maxing Amp Damage.

Playstyle:
Be PATIENT. You command from the rear. Let your troops do the heavy lifting.

This is Nightfish's NecroCheese and it's a proven Pat
 
Re: Help with hell mode, please.

A standard summon necro generally has around this by level 75:

I aim for 1000 health, with high positive resists.
20 Raise skele, 20 skele mastery and 20 corpse explosion (CE is your main killer at times, as it's effectively a chain reaction spell. One corpse hits 7 monsthers, killing 1, then you can immediately use it again to finish off the old monsters, and new arrivals.

One point in clay golem with 1 point in Golem mastery and summon resists.

That leaves almost 20 points remaining. Dim Vision is a valuable skill, but bone armour can also be useful. I have 2 guardian necro summoners, one with DV, and the other with BA maxxed.

Now, to you personally - you die too often? Summon necros stay behind the minions and watch. They should hardly be hit, unless if your strategy is bad.

I'd disagree with some points by o1d_dude, but most is true. You don't want more than 1 point in Amplify Damage. Summon necros don't do a lot, so they have plenty of time to cast amplify damage as much as they want.

Your merc damage looks a little low too. What's his weapon?

With 'decent' gear and skill point layout, a summon necro is not the fastest killing character. It can often be slow, but that's the reason Corpse Explosion is there usually. The skeletons CAN do enough on their own with time, but CE improves the speed multiple times.

Hope this helps,
~Dryst
 
Re: Help with hell mode, please.

Thanks for the fast replies.

As for my resists on NM they were all 75. They're all low, now. I'll have to check them next time I go on. Also, with the matter of Summon Resist, I do have 7 Points in it, but like Corpse explosion and from players talking, the dimishing returns make putting points in it to high levels kind of pointless. And I also find my Skeleton's are lasting long, with maxed SM/RS.

All Golems have 7 points in them, because they were Pre Reqs and + skills made up for it.

My stat Allocation is basicly, strength to around the 90ish mark to wear gear. A few badly placed points in Mana, the rest in vitality. Also, I now that you will say "Don't get energy" but at the time, I was using playing around with CE and it used a lot of Mana, so I thought, "More mana more boom?!" Please remember, this was my first character in a few years, and I only started getting advice from the internet and guides after 25+ And by then, it was to late.

I do use Corpse Explosion, it's ranked 7. I just looked at the higher ranks of it, and it didn't seem to increase the total AoE by 'that' much. I still do those cool domino corpse explosion type effects :thumbup:

Poison nova, I admit, was a mistake. Currently doing 500-700'ish (Not on my Diablo computer can't check, sorry) but I found it very effective for taking down the big packs in P8 Normal and P1 Nightmare. I just didn't expect it to be this weak in hell.

I forgot to tell you guys one thing. I'm using the wand *Mind blank* Some guys arm? The one that has a chance to cast Bone wall, now, with my luck. I am always getting trapped in there, open to archers and mages. *Shakes fist at how anoying that spell is* but the wand is so great :(

I've been hunting for the trident for my Merc that slows enemies he hit's down. *again mind blank*

Funnily enough, the only thing I can remember is my Merc's current weapon.

http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/The_Tannr_Gorerod
 
Re: Help with hell mode, please.

Necromancers have such piss-poor health benefits from actually dropping points into vitality, that I wouldn't make that my priority. Instead, I would aim for max block and pick up a good bow to help get that first kill for some chain CE's. Before he was stupidly tppked, my Fishymancer used an Eaglehorn to periodically to kill enemies. A Faith would work nicely for a summoner, if you're playing RWM and can get the runes (I've never made one).
 
Re: Help with hell mode, please.

Nogan said:
Necromancers have such piss-poor health benefits from actually dropping points into vitality, that I wouldn't make that my priority. Instead, I would aim for max block and pick up a good bow to help get that first kill for some chain CE's. Before he was stupidly tppked, my Fishymancer used an Eaglehorn to periodically to kill enemies. A Faith would work nicely for a summoner, if you're playing RWM and can get the runes (I've never made one).
Click to expand...

Hmmm... Bows? Necro's? The shield I currently use is the (Spelling) Homuluncus which comes with a large amount of block, 70%. But I would still need a fair bit of Dex to max the block.

Also, with block. I would have to be up close in melee range more (Unless you can block arrows)

So really, even though you do get minimal HP with each point of Vitality, I still personally think it's worth more than stacking dexterity.


 
Re: Help with hell mode, please.

Don't bother with max block. You shouldn't be getting hit.

Tannr Gorerod? Find something better for your merc, quick. That's not gonna get you your first corpse quickly. You can run the Pits in the Tamoe Highland a few dozen times and might end up with either a new unique or a socket elite polearm (preferrably eth) so you can make a runeword. Using RWM? Insight is cheap and will give your merc some true strength. Otherwise, peruse the runewords and find something better. Make sure he's got some life leech, and he'll be strong as an ox.

The only reason people max CE is for the range. It's okay if you can hit a third or half the screen, but it's MUCH better if it hits everyone you see since it makes life so much easier.
 
Re: Help with hell mode, please.

TheReadMenace said:
Don't bother with max block. You shouldn't be getting hit.

Tannr Gorerod? Find something better for your merc, quick. That's not gonna get you your first corpse quickly. You can run the Pits in the Tamoe Highland a few dozen times and might end up with either a new unique or a socket elite polearm (preferrably eth) so you can make a runeword. Using RWM? Insight is cheap and will give your merc some true strength. Otherwise, peruse the runewords and find something better. Make sure he's got some life leech, and he'll be strong as an ox.

The only reason people max CE is for the range. It's okay if you can hit a third or half the screen, but it's MUCH better if it hits everyone you see since it makes life so much easier.
Click to expand...

I've been searching everywhere for RWM. The thread on Diii.net link is broken, or my web page comes up with Error 404. And goolge searching isn't going well.

I got the Tal Rasha's helm for my merc (Had 2 drop over 2 NM Meph runs) and i'll go try run the pits. Will hopefull get some Levels aswell. :D


 
Re: Help with hell mode, please.

The sticky at the top of the SPF entitled "HELP - atma/gomule, rrm/rwm..." has the mods available for download under Game Modifications. I checked and it worked just fine (go for the link under RWM. After a double check, you're right that the updated RRM link is down for some reason. Don't worry, both mods are there). I'll say that if you have any issues getting them to work, however, post in that thread, not here.

By the way, good luck to you. Hope you find something that'll help and your progress becomes smoother.
 
Re: Help with hell mode, please.

Yeah.. I tried again, saying the server cannot be found. And the thread is locked.
 
Re: Help with hell mode, please.

Moodle said:
I do use Corpse Explosion, it's ranked 7. I just looked at the higher ranks of it, and it didn't seem to increase the total AoE by 'that' much. I still do those cool domino corpse explosion type effects :thumbup:
Click to expand...

When CE is maxed, you pretty much hit everything on screen. It's either the best or the second best AoE skill in the game, IMO. Maxing it really is a huge help even if it SEEMS like it isn't going to do much good.


 
Re: Help with hell mode, please.

Smips said:
When CE is maxed, you pretty much hit everything on screen. It's either the best or the second best AoE skill in the game, IMO. Maxing it really is a huge help even if it SEEMS like it isn't going to do much good.
Click to expand...

Is the amount that in increases, does half of the range you get, get halfed and go on each side, or does it add X amount to each side?


 
Re: Help with hell mode, please.

I haven't played any summonmancer, but i'm playing a summoner druid, which is also my first character, so it is comparable perhaps, in a way. I'm currently playing Act II Hell, so we're in about the same league. My level is 80.

To make a comparison:
- your mercenary weapon does about 26-120 damage, (from your post) that translates to 200-500 actual damage.

- I traded 20 pgems at the SPTF for an ethereal 1.07 Thresher
- I socketed the Thresher using the socketing quest, and got 5 sockets (by default)
- I traded the Lem rune I had found in Nightmare for a Ko and Fal, and (using the RWM) I made "Obedience" runeword

- my "Obedience" Thresher does 84-1097 damage and including Might aura, Heart of Wolverine spirit, Enchant on the weapon, and cold damage on the armor, this translates to 928-7207 actual damage. That's 4000 average.

You should be able to attain even more impressive numbers, given Amplify Damage. Also, you don't need the Reaper's Toll, since you can cast Decrepify yourself. (Reaper's Toll is a weapon that casts Decrep on striking).

- I also traded 6 pgems for a low damage ethereal "Insight" Colossus Voulge. 'Low' means in this case that the damage roll on the runeword was only 201%. It is still a weapon that does 84-743 damage. Just to illustrate that a good weapon doesn't have to be expensive.

- The weapon that I used during Nightmare was another "Insight" Bec-de-Corbin, that still did a good 48-255 damage. That is double what you have.

I wouldn't be able to survive and play this game without a good mercenary weapon, since my Grizzly Bear has such a low killspeed. My strategy is basically: "Let the bear tank, let the mercenary kill". I think my mercenary gets like 80% of the kills. With such a good mercenary, you can play the game through Hell without even doing any damage yourself. Given that you can support your mercenary with:
- a lot of extra tanks
- decrep
- amplify dmg
it shouldn't be difficult to make it through Act I and II, at least.

Also, I have only 667 life but the only time I have died during normal play, is when I foolishly ran into a bunch of archers in The Pit.
 
Re: Help with hell mode, please.

Don't expect for this char to be a powerhouse. You messed up your skills and stats early and your character will suffer for it.

With that in mind, there's no reason why you can't pat this char. Put the rest of your stat points in vit and the rest of your skills in CE (unless you haven't put a single point in clay golem and golem mastery, those are 1 point wonders). Get an elite insight on your merc, preferably ethereal. stay well behind your merc/skellies, and amp everything. as soon as a corpse drops, cast CE.
 
Re: Help with hell mode, please.

You don't want your merc running around with a Reaper's Toll. Why? Because his Decrep curse will overwrite your Amp Dmg or whatever other curse you've got going on.
 
Re: Help with hell mode, please.

Thanks Xen. You seem to be a bit more with it :P

I'm going to have to look into that Merc weapon you described. Although, having never played Online, or done trades using programs .. I don't even know what exactly a "Pgem" is, since I can't learn all the Diablo Jargon by myself :(

And, btw, i'm now spending points in CE..

Random guess, Pgems = Perfect gems? :D

Edit: said Prune not Pgem :P
 
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