WW/Zerk

KTang

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Jan 18, 2004
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WW/Zerk

I searched it before but instead of reviving a year old thread I'd figured I'd write some questions.

So, looking to make a CS runner and was planning on making a Zerker for next ladder after a few weeks of plowing the sorc. Questioning the multiple killing speed of Zerk as I'm looking to clear as much of CS possible rather than just Diablo killing, I decided to look to WW.

Now for the qs:

1) How powerful is 20WW with say Upg Ribcracker and mediocre gear? Tbh, I hate running 1p games, so lets say 4-8p games.

2) Full zerk will most likely clear most mobs in one smack, but would 20 points spent in WW yet losing a synergy of Zerk, would that clear these smaller mobs faster? Or baals minions?

3) Howl or Shout? ;) I'd personally prefer Howl myself to guarentee good riddance of the mobs, safety of Zerk that is...

My plan was when running CS...Leap to the gate, Howl, Zerk OKs, WW smaller mobs and use Zerk on Champ mobs. Find Item on the way.

I worked it out and it'd be something like...

20 WW
10 Howl or 10 Shout
20 Zerk
20 BO
20 Mastery
Prereqs
1 point up to Warcry

Remaining points into one of them. Perhaps Zerk could be reduced to increase Howl, or WW, etc.

Anyway, what do you guys reckon? Haven't seen any builds on it, so just brainstorming for now.

KT
 
Re: WW/Zerk

WW isn't very CS friendly as mid-ww iron maidens are your worst nightmare. While this build might be excellent for baal runs, a pure zerker in my opinion is probably the best way to go for CS

BTW: Howl>Shout
 
Re: WW/Zerk

my current barbarian is a max zerker with 1 pt ww.

20 pole mastery
20 berserk
20 battle orders
20 howl
1 battle command
1 ww
1 natural resist
1 increased speed
now putting the rest in shout
never found a use for warcry

Normally I would reccomend a berserker to just get 1 point in mastery then max it last after synergies, but a hybrid benefits much from mastery. 20 points whirlwind is insignificant boost to attack rate or damage for a hybrid to worry about. My barb is wearing a fortitude so it more than makes up for the loss.

I use an ethereal tombreaver so I get nice whirlwind and zerk speeds.

I am pretty much a berserker barbarian 95% of the time, but I whirl against the annoying packs of small creatures like the little bugs, dolls, sprites, flayers, ect. Whirlwind also helps somewhat more against Lister's pack as they have the annoying stun.

Up'd ribbies are very powerful whirlwind and zerk weapons. make sure it is as near perfect as you can get it before you upgrade.
 
Re: WW/Zerk

@Bush > Thats why I would be howling + zerking all nearby OKs first, but I guess you never know when one is gonna creep up and end you.

@Damric > Hmm, is there not a large difference between the negative affects of 1pt WW to the 20pt WW? I'll test both out but if 1pt WW gets by then I wouldn't mind trying it, thing is I'm looking to run in 4-8 players, I'm wondering if the damage would be high enough. I would use WW for the same reason as you have mentioned though.

Cheers for the input folks. From what you've both said, I'll test it with 20WW and with 1pt WW, average gear though, I won't be using Fortitude in the first week of ladder. Atleast, I don't WANT to be. :coffee:

KT
 
Re: WW/Zerk

50 points in strength negates the -50% damage of level 1 whirlwind. Now keep in mind you will probably have a few +skill items and battle command. You will also probably have much more than 50 strength, so you will still see some damage bonuses for ww just on strength and mastery alone.

There is about a 150%ed difference from level 1-20ww and a 95% attack rate difference. That might seem like a lot to some people or rather insignificant to others (me). If it was a pvp true ww barb, of course you would max ww.
 
Re: WW/Zerk

Alright, cheers for the input. I think I'll attempt the build using 1pt WW, and then once I played around with that using mid gear, I'll pump it up to 20pt WW and see the differences. If it works, I'll design a build around it and spread the love.

Just gonna try it with mid-end gear, top end gear is available but I don't think thats a good way to test a build ;) And I'd also like to see how such a build would fair running heavily untwinked. I think the only "expensive" item my char will be looking at is probably Arreats or Ribcracker. Maybe the ravens and highlords too...hmm :p

KT
 
Re: WW/Zerk

You don't need to be a zerker to be effective in Chaos runs, although you do need at least one point in Berserk. Oblivion Knights are easy enough to deal with if you're careful. Just Howl everything away, charge them, zerk them to death, and while the other monsters are still on the run take a look around to make sure there aren't any more OKs lurking about. Read my guide (it's still near the top of this forum) and tell me what you think.

I'm actually rebuilding my current barb and I've been thinking over the same build questions you have. I had been leaning towards maxing WW, putting 1 point into Berserk, and maxing Howl and Shout. (I won't be able to max both though; I'm planning to put points into Howl until I'm happy with it, then dump the rest into Shout).
 
Re: WW/Zerk

I agree that you don't need a pure zerk barb to clear CS, but WW is one of those skills just asking for trouble because you have no control once its on you. I played HC for a while so I have a strict "dont die" mindset, which most other people don't have. That said, logically and mathematically, safer builds are less efficient in soft core. There comes a point in the game where level isn't as important as items, and items suffer no penalty from dying.

Your build would work, but I would just suggest a different skill other than WW for this area. It will be a bit less stressful and you won't die so much to pure dumb luck. I'm currently building a singer/zerk hybrid ATM, which I suspect will be able to clear CS with incredible ease once finished.
 
Re: WW/Zerk

Thanks for the further input folks, that was my intention when killing OKs, I've played a few barbs before but wanted to try something for the new ladder that wasn't ridiculously gear dependant, something with the Berserker isn't. However, I want to test whether the extra points in Zerk are necessary.

Thanks Bush, I would consider another skill other than WW but I'm looking to clean smaller mobs faster, and where as a singer variant would be safer it would also be more expensive and also not as damaging. The build will be used to run high areas, so CS and WSK will be only part of it, and I'll most likely do Pits as well. If all goes to plan, I'll name it the PvM WW/Zerk Budget Barbarian. I just want to test the effectiveness of WW when using low-mid end weapons, I will primarily be focusing on using Maces, as Steeldriver/Bonesnap/Ribcracker are weapons which are not all that expensive, yet extremely effective when upgraded.

Anyway, thats my plan, just to make a barb which is viable for low budget yet effective at finding nicer items and also good at clearing these areas. I'm not going to waste time using godlike gear ;)

KT
 
Re: WW/Zerk

yeah when ladder resets I'm making zerker first character. I discovered a few very nice budget weapons for zerking this season when I made my polearm zerker. It's painfully annoying to find high damage whirlwind weapons that hit last whirling speed breakpoint at beginning of season.

Pierre Tombale Couant: well that was my epic version, but you get the point, 55% deadly strike ;)

Obediece Cryptic Axe: it should be very easy to make one of these in first day or so and the damage is pretty high even on non-ethereal.

Insight Polearm: even easier to make than obedience and has nice critical strike bonuses.

Back to my current level 85 barb, a pole mastery berserker. On the character screen it shows me 2.5-12k from my 1 point whirlwind. That's with my ethereal tombreaver, low +skills, and no +damage charms (yet). It shows my berserking damage at 4-19k but I have just barely started to put points in my last synergy group (shout). That's with a might merc and a level 17 concentrate from his scythe. I am wearing fortitude instead of enigma so I only have around 4050 life so far.

Pictures say so much more than words don't they? Do you ever find yourself trying to hover over the items in a screenshot?
 
Re: WW/Zerk

Very useful information indeed Damric! I haven't got the barb into some high levels yet, I'll be focusing on maces and mauls instead but the runewords you mentioned are indeed very much affordable, however with the WW as you mentioned I want to be able to hit atleast a decent bp.

I wouldn't make a barb as a first char, but yours sounds convincing. Mine is meant to be successful on a budget, just looking to see how far that budget can take someone ;) 12k from 1pt but with all those auras and fortitude, lets see how that fairs with standard gear and 20pt WW..definatley won't be seeing the same figures of course. I'll let you know how I get on, testing viability of WW and Zerk. Zerk will be fine I'm guessing, I just want to know how useful WW is even going to be.

KT
 
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