N help with pvp mb sorc

tcpgeest

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Jul 15, 2008
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N help with pvp mb sorc

Hi,

I was thinking of making a Guardian Angel maxblock vita sorc..
However, google doesn't provide me with any guids or whatsoever..
So I figured I had to do it myself..
I need some input from you guys..

I want the following goals:

86FHR
90 All Resists in Hell After Anya preferably some stack..
Max Block
Good Life after BO.. What is good for a vita sorc to have on life? Never made one.. I'm thinking 3K or so..
Enough mana to not run out of it while teleing + bolting..
As much DR as possible without sacrificing too much damage/life/other goals
105FCR
15k+ DMG (Bolt, Ball 16k+)
The ability to always switch 1 of 2 rings out for wisp/dwarf/raven without sacrificing any goals (except maybe life/mana/1+Skill)

For skills I'm thinking

1 Telekinesis
1 Teleport

1 Frozen Armor
1 Ice Bolt
1 Ice Blast
1 Shiver Armor
1 Chilling Armor

1 Warmth
1 Blaze
1 Inferno
1 Fire Wall
20 Fire Bolt
20 Fire Ball
20 Meteor
20 Fire Mastery

Rest in Hydra

Done at around lvl 80 with all skill q's done..

Considering these goals.. What would you guys suggest in gear selection, besides the obvious Guardian Angel armor?

Extra Question:

I heared Chilling Armor is actually capable of blocking ranged spells/arrows/etc
Is this true?.. How does this work
 
Re: N help with pvp mb sorc

I don't play PvP, but since no one else stepped up yet, I'll take a stab at some of your points...

<hacking & slicing your post>

I was thinking of making a Guardian Angel maxblock vita sorc..
However, google doesn't provide me with any guids or whatsoever..

mephiztophelez' guide to Fire Sorks, stickied at the top of this forum. I don't remember if it mentioned Guardian Angel, but it has a lot of ideas and advice that would apply to your build, so you should definitely read that one.


For skills I'm thinking

1 Telekinesis
1 Teleport

1 Frozen Armor
1 Ice Bolt
1 Ice Blast
1 Shiver Armor
1 Chilling Armor

1 Warmth
1 Blaze
1 Inferno
1 Fire Wall
20 Fire Bolt
20 Fire Ball
20 Meteor
20 Fire Mastery

Rest in Hydra

Static Field is useful for helping you levelup... I'd definitely put a point in that, and leave the points in the cold armors until last - you won't need them for PvM. Since you get more benefit from higher levels, you might as well count on trying to get to a higher level (~90), so that shouldn't be a real problem anyways.

The rest look pretty good to me, and if you wanted a more powerful hydra you can use a staff to prebuff your cold armor of choice.


Extra Question:

I heared Chilling Armor is actually capable of blocking ranged spells/arrows/etc
Is this true?.. How does this work

It doesn't. It's a common belief, but it's a visual-bug (probably based on lag) where it doesn't look like you receive damage when an attack lands. But you do receive that damage.

Every actual test that I've read could never reproduce a single blocked/deflected attack from any of the cold armors, using various attacks.


I want the following goals:

86FHR
90 All Resists in Hell After Anya preferably some stack..
Max Block
Good Life after BO.. What is good for a vita sorc to have on life? Never made one.. I'm thinking 3K or so..
Enough mana to not run out of it while teleing + bolting..
As much DR as possible without sacrificing too much damage/life/other goals
105FCR
15k+ DMG (Bolt, Ball 16k+)
The ability to always switch 1 of 2 rings out for wisp/dwarf/raven without sacrificing any goals (except maybe life/mana/1+Skill)

....

Considering these goals.. What would you guys suggest in gear selection, besides the obvious Guardian Angel armor?


... that's quite a bit, and I'm not certain it's all possible at once. My thoughts:

- I'm thinking that with the points you'll have in dexterity, 3k life is going to be a little of a stretch. If I'm not mistaken, sorcs that get 3k life typically do not have any blocking, so you're probably looking at closer to 2k life.

- One idea for an item that you might normally overlook would be a crafted 'safety' amulet. +1-10% blocking, and if you're lucky you can get one with +skills, resists, FCR, etc.

- I think you'll need to sacrifice/compromise some of that list. DR would probably be the first to go, since you won't have ES it doesn't seem like it would be particularly noticable anyways.

- As I previously mentioned, iirc, the firesork guide at the top of this forum probably has a ton of ideas and some discussion of "what's best".


- Anyways, off the top of my head, here's how I'd go about choosing items:

First, I'd start with the obvious:

Code:
weapon:  HotO
gloves:  Magefist
belt:  Arachnid's Mesh
armor:  Guardian Angel (either Um/+15 resists jewel, or Shael for FHR)
charms:  S-torch & anni
switch:  CtA & +1 shield (you won't have the Strength for Spirit)

If I'm not mistaken, those are pretty much obvious choices for providing the most from those slots.

After that I'd look at your amulet & helm for covering the rest of your FCR (you need 25 FCR more). I hope you're rich, because you'll likely want +skills & resists on these slots too, and getting all of these all combined together will get pretty expensive.

These would dictate what you do with the rest of your gear also. For example:

Shield: if the helm and amulet have amazing resists, you might be able to use an upgraded Visceratuant for a shield (+1 skill & better blocking) instead of upgraded Moser's (cheap & easy) or a high-end Sanctuary (slightly better than Moser's, but not as cheap). Stormshield gets some love too, but with all of the points you'd need in strength & dexterity, you can probably kiss 2k life goodbye (and not even dream of 3k). If your heart's set on 3k life, you might need to choose Whistan's Guard here.

Boots: again, do you need FHR or resists more? I'm guessing triple-resist rares with 10 FHR would be ideal.

Charms: 9x Burning with Life or FHR
- Shimmering/Resists/Serpents Small Charm of Balance/<life>

Rings: whatever... you might consider keeping one FCR ring at all times - it'll probably make your amulet & helm selections more versatile (and quite a bit cheaper)



 
Re: N help with pvp mb sorc

The reason there are no max block vita guides is because its not worthwhile in most people's opinions.

Since block will only block certain attacks (effectively physical no elemental) and requires a lot of dex even with a high blocking shield to hit max block (and yes even with a ga), it's hard to justify. A sorc shouldn't be getting hit very often by the attacks that are blockable, unless its a melee sorc variant. There are guides for that, and I'm sure the main reason you don't see GA mentioned in those guides is because the max resist boost is nice, but you also have to have a source(s) of resists to hit it.

If you plan on keeping the caster role, a spirit monarch is terrible for blocking, but provides so many useful bonuses I can't ever see not using one (unless non-ladder). If you go vita, you might as well focus on it anyway, and vita is far more useful to me on my casters. Being able to take a heavy hit or two can buy you the time to pop a rejuv as opposed to just dying outright.
 
Re: N help with pvp mb sorc

oh as for 3k life - 1 point vit = 2 point life. Without CTA buff, not happening. Even with CTA buff, you need to have any points not in str for gear pretty much in vit. My trapper (different class, I know) gets 3life per vit point, and while her final vit is around 478 and life about 1895, she buffs out to maybe 3100 (and that's a hefty cta BO mind you). So considering that my trap is just shy of pure vit, and doesn't exceed the 3k barrier by much - don't expect it on a sorc.

100 vit = 200 life - considering you have a little over 400 points to distribute by lvl 80, and base life and +life per level isn't going to make a huge difference. My lite sorc has an abundance of str that I should have placed in vit, but she buffs over 2.4k life. If she was built perfectly around gear, I could probabably fit maybe another 120hp in, tho if I ever put a griffon's on, the lost life from shako would more than cancel out anyway. And again, that's just str and vita, no dex boost.

So unless you plan on perfect or near perfect gear, you're setting expectations too high. Hell, even with the most expensive, perfect and near perfect gear, you're expecting to pull too much out of a build. You wouldn't be able to meet all your goals, you have too many that conflict. You can't have everything solid, fhr, fcr, skills, vita, resists. Something has to give.

PDR won't do much for a sorc since you shouldn't be getting hit much anyway, and your biggest threats will be ranged elemental/poison attacks.
 
Re: N help with pvp mb sorc

There are plenty max block/vita based builds with about 3.5k life with about perfect gear..

Also 3.1k life for a trapper is terribly low..
Trappers can reach even higher life than Ghost and Hybrid assa's.. and my ghost has 4.1k life now..


However I do agree on the fact that I might be asking too much of the build..
I am currently researching numerous build options..
 
Re: N help with pvp mb sorc

3.1k life terribly low for a trapper? How do you figure? I have a 20 stat anni and a 19 stat torch, and 55 points free to distribute in case I need it (should I ever want to go c/c).

None of my trap charms are lifers, and they don't need to be. My trapper is primarily pvm and can do anything outside of ubers with ease, and the only thing outside of uberland that can kill her pvm wise is lag. She could have more vit if not for the str req on her spirit, but she's not c/c, is beyond the 48% fhr break point, she's beyond the 102 fcr break point and traps do up to over 10k damage.

She only uses a 3 bo cta, but considering the boost vs cost of a 6 bo cta, don't see the point really. Gear adds 13 points to BO for 16 total, 17 after BC. A 6bo CTA would get her to 20, but its not necessary so I haven't felt the need to buy one.

But as for max/block vita builds with 3.5k life.... I find that hard to believe. 1 vit = 2 hp. Estimating BO will factor in at about 16 for 80%, you'll need a base life just shy of 1950. Since you start with 40 life and gain 1 life per level, if you went straight vit to 99 you could hypothetically hit 1148 life before gear and charms factor in (505 stat points into vit at lvl 99). If you were to add a 20 stat storch and 20 stat anni, that would bring life to 1228. Now if we were to pretend we had 45 lifer skillers (9) and 10 20 life scs that results in 1833. A 16 BO brings that to 3319. You'd need a 20 BO to break 3.5k - and again this is pure vit, perfect life charms and perfect life skillers, no max block. No gear is being factored in this example because of the extremes being assumed in the first place.

Now with that said, that extreme is entirely impractical. 45 skillers are insanely rare, and finding someone willing to part with one you need is all the more difficult. But I'll look for these guides you claim are plentiful that result in 3.5k life.
 
Re: N help with pvp mb sorc

Ok took a look, no where did I see a max/block vita sorc with 3.5k projected life. Most setups will reduce your CTA boost as you won't have as many plus ALL SKILLS. Honestly, I feel you're doing more "paper" research but not actually applying any practicality or reality to the situation.

If you were referring to trapper builds having max block with over 3.5k life, its a completely different story. 3 life per vit vs 2 goes a long way.
 
Re: N help with pvp mb sorc

Ok took a look, no where did I see a max/block vita sorc with 3.5k projected life. Most setups will reduce your CTA boost as you won't have as many plus ALL SKILLS. Honestly, I feel you're doing more "paper" research but not actually applying any practicality or reality to the situation.

If you were referring to trapper builds having max block with over 3.5k life, its a completely different story. 3 life per vit vs 2 goes a long way.

Using an inventory of 20/17 + 9x 45 life skillers..
Using high life circlets, rings, amu..
Getting good + skills (bo lvl 15 or higher)
It's definetly doable..

There is this guy on JSP.. who has made a Low FB dmg max block/ES build with base dex.. he hits nearly 2k life with 0 points in vitality.. and a little under 5k mana..

However it's a matter of how much you're willing to spend..
For the average person I'd say 3,5k life is impossible to reach..
But I don't really have a budget..my wealth is primarily based on the time it takes for me to sell my stuff and accumulate FG .. But I could technically fund everything I need..

That is why I am talking about pure theoretical stuff here.. requires obvious perfect gear..


 
Re: N help with pvp mb sorc

FG or game wealth doesn't matter if the gear isn't for sale. That's what I've been trying to explain.

But, even assuming you could find everything possible...

A nice rare circlet will not provide all skills to boost BO (class). Mana is different because there are more ways to boost (2 sojs can add 40%) Life is a different story. I even provided math examples to give you an idea of what you're looking at that you're apparently ignoring.

And as you said there are plenty of max block/vita builds, you failed to cite even one example where 3.5k is possible.

As far as using jewelry to provide life - you drop plus skills and there are only so many spots to get plus all skills to boost that CTA. Then there's fcr, and fhr, and all the other things you're trying to fit.

In fact, you haven't even provided a listing of gear that could even come anywhere close. I showed you math to try and make a point of just how extreme your goal is.

Note you said ONE guy, and on JSP. Why not get info on how? If you call upon an oak sage with hoto, you'll have a source to boost total life that can hit your projected goal - but its not reliable, especially for pvp. Max block with base dex on a sorc? How? A 75% block on shield is not max block. Base dex means lots of plus dex items. What about everything else you need?
 
Re: N help with pvp mb sorc

Like I said, he invested 0 points in vitality and got 2k.. since it was an ES build..
I however would like to investigate a vitality build.. all the points he put into energy I would put in vitality.. and it's a base str/dex build.. so that would mean every point...at lvl 99 that's like.. 515??.. ofcourse 99 is not reachable easily.. however 95 is.. so it would give us 495 points.. almost 1000 extra boable life.. with around lvl 15 bo.. maybe 1 more or less.
As for the block issue.. we're going with whistans and twitchroe as an armor..
Sorc's start with 25 dex + 40 from anni/torch + 10 from hoto + 10 from twitch.. Ofcourse twitch is socketed with a 9dex/7fhr/adds etc jewels.. so actually +19 .. same jewel is in whistans..so another + 9..= 103 dex..
You'd use rare boots with double or triple res, 30 frw and 20 fhr.. ofcourse legit ones.. they have 14 str and 9 dex I believe.. ur now at 112 dex..
However wealthy u are depends how much dex there is on your circlet and amu.. I believe amu's can have 20 dex and circlets 30 dex..thats a 162 total..
You only need 158 dex at lvl 99 using twitch and whistans..at lvl 95 dunno how much that is.. maybe 155 or something. Even if you don't have perfect gear and have to stat 20 dex points yourself, you still have around 900 boable life you gain from all vit..
Now other goals, FHR.. 20 provided by twitch.. 20 by boots.. and 14 by the 2 jewels. means u need 32 more.. you could sox your circlet with a shael.. or another 9dex/7fhr/adds jewel.. however I'd go with shael if u want 3,5k life..
Means only 12 fhr left.. you can use 1 skiller with 12 fhr.. so that u can use 10 20/5's..
FCR 105 BP is reached.. 40 hoto 20 circlet 20 arach 20 magefist 5+ or more from amu..As for res..
40 from hoto, the jewels I'd use provide minor res on them.. the boots provide res also the amu and circlet.. 10x 20/5's and 40 from torch/anni..
You'd get a little over max res.. or maybe around max res depending on ur jewels..

Summarized:

Max block with no dex invested
No strength invested due to only low items.
+9 to all skills after BC which means lvl 15 BO..
86 FHR
105 FCR
Max Res (unfortunately no stack)
3,5k Life
1k or so mana
No ES used so full damage build, allowing the use of Hydra..
Around 14k Fire Bolt..little more Fire Ball..might seem low to you but it's more than enough.. if someone mass sorbs you it doesn't matter if you have 30k Fire Ball dmg or 14k..

Also it was not one guy, it was 1 topic were one guy responded and soon other people joined in on the discussion and provided their insight..all having similar builds.

Another thing, if you care about the res more.. you could switch to wizzy giving you a possible 50 increase in resistance..the guy claims it's doable with the 12k-13k you have then..
I'm sure it is if you have the skills..
I like to feel a little more safe with a bit more dmg..
Also you'd lose about 200 life or so..and some mana
 
Re: N help with pvp mb sorc

Now that's more of what should have been in the first post.

Gear is extreme, but this is what I'm wondering...

+1 arachnid, +1 anni +1bk/soj +1bk/soj.... where are the rest of the plus all skills coming from? BO only gets boosted from plus all skills - plus sorc skills won't do anything as its not a sorc skill.

With twitch - no +2 all skill
rare circlet - no +2 all skill (maybe +2 sorc, 20fcr and some other wonderful stuff)
fcr amulet - no +2 all skill (plus sorc maybe, but fcr and all skill not happening)
torch - no +all skill (+3 class skill, wouldn't affect BO even if barb torch unless actually a barb with barb torch)
hoto - can't be used at same time as cta, cta is +1, bc adds +1 (effectively +2)
whistans - no plus all skill (not spirit) / lidless switch (+1)

so during cta buff - arachnids, soj/bk, soj/bk, cta, lidless, anni. that's +6 all - +2 if you plan on switching to maras/seraphs JUST for BO. Add the BC to hit up to your +9.

That's a bit of what I meant - you go to such extremes you leave no room for error and end up with a problem you didn't consider.

Lvl 95 - 2-95 adds 470 points, another 15 from quests+40 from anni/torch +base of 40hp +94hp after levels = 1184 hp --+405 from 9x 45 skillers + 200 from 10x 20life scs =1789 +95 from 2 bks = 1884 - need to basically break 1950 base hp for a 16 BO to push over 3.5k. 66 life between circlet/amulet would basically be required.

With that said, while it's technically possible, where do you honestly plan on finding these 20/5s and +1 45 lifers? JSP is big, but someone who's put the time in to accrue their lifers isn't going to part with them so easily. While I'm sure they can begotten over a period of time, the question is how long? For all that work, I'd rather be running a bone necro...
 
Re: N help with pvp mb sorc

Yeah well.. it's all roughly measured..

With the gear that is in my reach.. I'm sure I could reach 3.2k hp myself..
I have pretty good connections and I can get at least near perfect gear myself..with my wealth.. so that really isn't a problem..
The reason is I want it is because I can just make a boner.. I already have so many stantard cookie cutter duelers.. I want something new.. something fun.. and I don't mind spending alot of FG to get it...
 
Re: N help with pvp mb sorc

3.2, even tho just 300hp less, is more feasible. But I do hear you on the cookie cutter builds, in games where I pvp regularly (d2 not being one of them) I always preferred modifying cookie cutter builds to my own variant and having something different yet effective.

The weakness of any elemental build is always absorb - depending on who and where you're pvping will mean your fights will vary. In pubs you'll have mixed results but probably better overall since fewer people will make gear switches. In duels, it just depends on how much is too much and what you and your opponent agree upon.
 
Re: N help with pvp mb sorc

Don't forget +60 hp for your Jade Figurines :)

And btw I don't think aiming for 3k+ life on a max block sorc is reasonable. Even if it's doable, it would be far-fetched. The goal is to kill your opponent before he does you, not tank the most hits possible.
 
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Re: N help with pvp mb sorc

Yeah will I want something totally out of the ordinary that kills easily.. but won't own pubs 7v1.. just something won't expect..
And this ain't your run off the mill sorc..
 
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