Necro Summoner Guide (Incontestable Greatness)

Re: Necro Summoner Guide (Incontestable Greatness)

I don't understand why anyone would suggest making an iron golem out of an infinity. It's not a question of if he dies. He will die at some point. With maxed GM (and +21 to summon tree, which is what I have right now) IG has ~9k life. If you max out BG for the health synergy, IG will have ~10k life.

Considering my skellies have about 8k life and they fall fast to things like IM and the snakes around Nihlathak and you are expecting to do ubers... either you are not collecting the keys/organs yourself, or you are quiting out of games that spawn the snakes/have bad things around Uber Izual.

I use the might/infinity me w/beast/homunc combo. I do not make an IG out of insight, I just chug a pot when I need too (which isn't often, even with me teleporting and CEing constantly). I collect all of my keys with this character, collect all of the organs, kill all of the Ubers, kill all of the act bosses (when I feel like it), rush people, run all the level 85ers (mainly WSK)... it all goes very fast.

My merc only dies to the same snakes and IM if I don't unequip him fast enough (and nothing else really... he's practically soloed Hell Andy, Hell Durial, and Hell Meph with me just adding amp damage and my fanat aura. I haven't tried him on the other two... I think I will go for Baal next. I don't know what you are talking about when you say they die easily. He has Eth Infinity in a Great Poleaxe, Eth Bugged Fort in a Kraken Shell (that I made myself from finding the armor, cubing the armor, and finding the runes myself), and Ral'd Andarial's Visage with 10ll/30str(I am try to get an eth andys).

Anyways, it sounds like an interesting build, but I would rather not relay on an expensive runeword made into an Iron Golem. My 50k a pop for the rare time when my merc dies is fine by me.
 
Re: Necro Summoner Guide (Incontestable Greatness)

bluewiind said:
I ran into this guide a couple of days ago and I build this necro in SP using the editor. I started at lev 60 in hell, I didnt die once, didnt loose my golem, although I did have infinite number of Infinities available if I did. This is a great build, fast, deadly and fun, as the author advertized and I will build one on ladder east.
I didnt read all the posts here, but from what I did read I was amazed at the level if hostility you necro gurus are showing. I dont believe any of you have actually tried this build and you merely shout you indignation from your soup boxes. How dare anyone question your vast knowledge and introduce a new concept with confidence and upset the status que. It made me laugh, thanks. This is what happens to most people who have new ideas, its a part of human condition. Resistance to change, feeling threatened in ones established niche.
Kudos to the author, this is a great build.
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It really wouldn't have had anything to do with the build had he opened the subject properly. He starts off with an insult to the entire forum, which is a poor choice, especially if someone is wanting constructive feed back. On top of the fact that throughout his thread he makes it seem as though any other approach or weapon set up is inferior, which is again incorrect. Reason being is that due to playstyle, focus, etc people use different builds/gear; this doesn't make a certain build necessarily inferior.

I read through the build and found it an interesting approach, however I found some things irrelavent or unnecessary. FCR was one area I saw as unnecessary. In a build that doesn't focus on spamming spells, the speed at which you cast your golem/skellies/CE is unimportant. 90% of the time if you build your necro properly, which can include builds outside of this one, you don't need to be recasting much, all you are doing is spamming CE. I wouldn't even cast a fourth of my army and take hell on like it was my batch, and I used the might/infinity/beast combo. As it has been mentioned many times pride IG is not the cheapest method, far from it. IG has a nasty habit of poofing or simply dying in those sticky situations. Unlike you most of the d2 community does not have an unlimited stock of eth Pride polearms.

It was mentioned before and should be said again, seeing as I have been reading the forums longer than I have been posting in them, DII.net has a rep for honestly evaluating builds. If you ask in a humble fashion you wont get any backlash, however, if you come off as some know-it-all then you will not be treated nicely.

Tang


 
Re: Necro Summoner Guide (Incontestable Greatness)

Just to clarify, my unlimited stock of runeword polearms comes from SP editor where you can make any item in the game in any quantity. I can certainly understand the hesitation of using an expensive item for IG on battlenet.
 
Re: Necro Summoner Guide (Incontestable Greatness)

bluewiind said:
Just to clarify, my unlimited stock of runeword polearms comes from SP editor where you can make any item in the game in any quantity. I can certainly understand the hesitation of using an expensive item for IG on battlenet.
Click to expand...

I knew where your Prides came from I read your post and quoted it, I was making my point. The point is neither you (in real d2) nor the rest of the d2 community has an unlimmited stock of Pride polearms at our disposal. If a person does I suggest they peel themselves away from their chair, probably overgrown with some sort of mildew, and visit the outside world. What I wrote still stands and is a good summary for what most of the rest of the Dii.net community stated. He was met with hostility primarly because of his starting the thread off with an insult and his know-it-all attitude.

Tang


 
Re: Necro Summoner Guide (Incontestable Greatness)

Yea, not good to ask for honest advice right after you call everyone idiots.
 
Re: Necro Summoner Guide (Incontestable Greatness)

Although he says that his ig never died throught the whole of hell, so I think that it does deserve mention
 
Re: Necro Summoner Guide (Incontestable Greatness)

Tangerinedream said:
I read through the build and found it an interesting approach, however I found some things irrelavent or unnecessary. FCR was one area I saw as unnecessary. In a build that doesn't focus on spamming spells, the speed at which you cast your golem/skellies/CE is unimportant. 90% of the time if you build your necro properly, which can include builds outside of this one, you don't need to be recasting much, all you are doing is spamming CE.
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Hitting the 125 FCR breakpoint, IMO, is the only way to build a runeworded, high end item summoner. The FCR is there solely for teleporting. Hitting this BP lets you be more of a do everything char than an area runner+act boss finisher. The play style of this build is more akin to a hammerdin than it is a poor man's or beast/homunculus summoner.

I think this is one of those builds that is relatively rare, but I think it really plays to the strengths of a necro and is the best summoner build I've played so far.


 
Re: Necro Summoner Guide (Incontestable Greatness)

Pillz: Well it is suited for char which want to teleport in somewhat bearable speed (mostly rushing/Baal running I guess). It sounds like a good build (I like his equipment tweaking, even though I prefer some investments into STR for non-pvp chars - I hate STR/charm glitching), though the thing I like about Necros is you can casually walk/run behind your army, sometimes teleport in the middle of enemy lines, sometimes just fool around and, first of all, you don't need trying to emulate caster.

If I want speed, I'll play my 117%(terminator mode)/200%(FTL mode) FCR Light sorc rather then crawl around with slowly teleporting Necro.
 
Re: Necro Summoner Guide (Incontestable Greatness)

sevencreature said:
If I want speed, I'll play my 117%(terminator mode)/200%(FTL mode) FCR Light sorc rather then crawl around with slowly teleporting Necro.
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sevencreature you make a good point. Firstly the OP is assuming that this will be your only character and as such has to be suited to perform multiple functions. I am more of a builder myself who has several characters that specialize in different tasks. I have a Hammerdin for MFing and Baal running, an uber Paladin for Torch running, a GF Barb for Travincal High Council and a Town Dump Werebear for...well just because I can....LOL

My latest build will be a Poison/Summoner Necro hence my reading and posting in this forum. The OP may not have the best bedside manner however, I do applaud his challenging of the norm and causing people to look outside the box to find more interesting ideas and in this case, more multi-functionality in his build. :scratchchin:

Try not to be too critical of the OPs manner and focus on the idea instead. That said, my personal preference will continue to be using multiple characters to do various different tasks.



 
Re: Necro Summoner Guide (Incontestable Greatness)

Why is teleporting so fast such an important option? My summoner which hits the breakpoint below 125 fcr clears areas faster and kills bosses faster than when he had 125 fcr. Killing things gets me items, not teleporting, so for me killing>teleporting. Each to their own, not knocking anyone for doing it, I just don't see the point of 125 FCR on a summoner outside of PvP.
 
Re: Necro Summoner Guide (Incontestable Greatness)

I use my 125 FCR summoner mostly to run baal so the fast tele is nice. Combine that with running a few act bosses, the A5 superuniques, and the countess, and the difference becomes relatively noticeable.

As for killing speed, I really fail to see how you sacrifice more than a negligible amount by using an FCR setup over what is used in the nightfish guide. Obviously, there is a big difference in DPS from the skeletons with fanaticism, but my merc is the main killer and as soon as the first corpse drops CE takes everything out.

Ultimately, however, it boils down to play style and what you want your necro to do. I only area run the pits, every other MF target I teleport to. Quicker teleport means that I save time and am less likely to get hit along the way.

And deadbeater, that's one of the more uninformed things I've read lately.
 
Re: Necro Summoner Guide (Incontestable Greatness)

not a bad build everyone likes there necro's there way.

imo: no need to max out golem mastery at all, one pt. is only needed in all golem stats just like curses in it actually..... with all the fcr that your wracking in him i see you diefeating the purpose. Why not just recast him barely cost nuttin' and at the end of build or halfway though he should be around 18 already just off of one pt. Summoning fast really isn't crucial to a summoning necro, hence the huge horde once it's up it lasts..if your army falls apart then you have a bunk golem and army. You run four times as much fcr then i do ...personally i would worry about resis and blocking more.
 
Re: Necro Summoner Guide (Incontestable Greatness)

BadAsh said:
not a bad build everyone likes there necro's there way.

imo: no need to max out golem mastery at all, one pt. is only needed in all golem stats just like curses in it actually..... with all the fcr that your wracking in him i see you diefeating the purpose. Why not just recast him barely cost nuttin' and at the end of build or halfway though he should be around 18 already just off of one pt. Summoning fast really isn't crucial to a summoning necro, hence the huge horde once it's up it lasts..if your army falls apart then you have a bunk golem and army. You run four times as much fcr then i do ...personally i would worry about resis and blocking more.
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All the points in golem mastery is so that your iron golem, presumably made out of a decent runeword, has a better chance of survival.

The FCR is for teleporting and teleporting only. 125 FCR is the final breakpoint for a necro, hence the 125 FCR.


 
Re: Necro Summoner Guide (Incontestable Greatness)

sorry, but infinity is way too expensive for the "normal" player (if there are any anymore...) to consider to re-use on an iron golem.

i play the cheap easy "fishy" build
20 skelly
20 mastery
20 Corpse E
1 iron
1 mastery
1 bone shield
1 bone wall (for fun and good to lock ancients in place... oh ancients are fun)
all curses.

and the rest ANYwhere... I put them in bonewall//bone shield.


I got lucky and got a few grand skillers of mine traded for a Jah and Ber rune and found my own low qual archon and upped and socketed to make my own enigma... then I realized how powerful this char class was. I have only played Sorcs for the most part (I can't live without teleport) but leveling my necro was fun... but when it got to hell mode, it got too hard to maintain ya know. So i stopped playing my thing after it was like level 70 in hell... that is til I got the nigma.

I have a might merc with a random cheap obedience (for extra damage and 40% crushing blow) and when I started I did't have enough high runes to even make an infinity (well now I do I guess). Insight'ed Golem with extras on mules (out of any 4os polearm).
I don't know why you wouldn't max Corpse Explosion. I believe it is THE best spell in the entire game.

I stack tele onto anything and AmpDam, it dies, CE once, stack tele onto something else, it dies, CE and CE and CE and EVERYTHING dies. i n5 seconds. My merc and stacked 15 skellies that do 600 damage (I use AoKL and 2 summoning skill charms) kill anything almost instantly.

I try to hit faster break points for casting CE faster as well to beat Nith, but I realized it wasn't worth the MF loss (nagel rings and such).

I mf with around 330 MF... modest.

My necro has probably died 5 times between levels 75 - 89 where I have exclusively ran Pit/Tunnels/all Keys/Trav/Meph/Frigid/SelfBaal (Occasional) solo or Telebaal with some friends.

It's ridiculous. Corpse Explosion that destroys anything in your screen? (15 yard radius) is RIDICULOUS.

Nith runs are like 1 minute deals. tele in using and cast attract on the close end of nith's platform, then tele to a back corner and get one kill, CE that corpse, tele AWAY to other corner. CE CE CE CE and Nith dies.
Hilarious

I'm sure hammerdins can kill just as fast (Meh, I don't think so personally), but it's definitely not as exciting as CE'ing and watching the whole area go up in blood. hahaha.
 
Re: Necro Summoner Guide (Incontestable Greatness)

I had a few "uber" characters last year. Some were "as good" in certain areas and certain situations, but the fishy is great everywhere, and never dies. I retired all the other characters because none could come close to clearing areas as fast as a fully pimped fishy.
 
Re: Necro Summoner Guide (Incontestable Greatness)

This general build, the 125FCR necro, but not the suggested gear setup, is my favorite, and imo most powerful, build.
 
Re: Necro Summoner Guide (Incontestable Greatness)

NumtyDoo said:
I had a few "uber" characters last year. Some were "as good" in certain areas and certain situations, but the fishy is great everywhere, and never dies. I retired all the other characters because none could come close to clearing areas as fast as a fully pimped fishy.
Click to expand...

Couldn't agree more.

when I put the enigma on my necro... all hell broke loose.

A necro with teleport is the single most devastating PvM build in the entire game. Full screen Corpse Explosions? Good game. Just about anything that dies = grenade. Nothing comes close to clearing as fast as this.

Insight is a must for a CE spammer like me


 
Re: Necro Summoner Guide (Incontestable Greatness)

Huh, I don't get it.

I may be a noob, so forgive me, but how is this build different from any other summon build? I mean, you've got the core summon skills, a high GM for the IG, and base points into curses and bone skills. So the build is the same as any other summoner. IMHO it lacks a high level CE, which is the most devastating skill in the game, short of Static Field.

I get the notion of fast casting and teleporting, but if we're talking about efficiency, and in a game like Diablo2, the qualification for efficiency is twofold:

1. Kill as fast as possible
2. Survive

These two points can be reversed in importance for HC players obviously. Several of the OPs posts admit that his build doesn't kill as quick, but allows for faster teleport. I have to say that's a horrible way to judge a build, using an item granted skill from a different class. The only thing this build does over any other summoner is the requirement of Enigma, but IMHO, equipment is not the defining element of a character build, its skill and stat attribution.

Besides, any character with a merc both kitted out in top of the line runewords can kill relatively quickly with Normal Attack.

Bottom line, this is just a standard summoner which the OP is demanding recognition for, and uses pricey runewords and risky teleporting as the basis. A truly good build is one which can be adapted to a wide variety of playstyles, which then showcases the robustness of said build. All this particular build does is come off as arrogant and close-minded, the two worst attributes in a guide, since any good player and guide builder SHOULD want constructive criticism to refine and improve the build.

Believing yourself or your creation to be the epitome of greatness is narcissistic folly.
 
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