PvM Gunslinger - Physical Bow/Lightning Java Hybrid

Re: PvM Gunslinger - Physical Bow/Lightning Java Hybrid

1) people have mentioned the 90+ before, but i've never heard the ins and outs of why

2) if you're not going to use a merc, use faith yourself. if you use a mat faith you wont need a whole lot of ias.

you're not pushy, you're direct. direct questions are the ones i like.
 
Re: PvM Gunslinger - Physical Bow/Lightning Java Hybrid

Tymbark said:
Thanks for posting this guide, it's always nice to see devoted non-standard amazon players.
I might have one (well, maybe two) rather silly questions though.

1) Boots:rolleyes: I made a survey among people I know for decent knowledge about amazons, and they claim that using gores is generally better for 90+ chars with close-to-high-end equipement, while War Travs are nicer for the development stages. Is it true (regarding the standard eq you mentioned)?

2)I don't like the idea of having a merc with me, I'm rather aloof, you know:prop:
I understand that without her I'll need more ias, and first thing that crossed my mind was just mavina's helm. Oh, and I'll use fort/windforce if that matters.
Do you think it is an option, or without merc I'll lack too much to call my ama a "gunslinger"?

As you may've noticed, I tend to be pushy, but any answer will be very much appreciated.
Regards,
Tym^^
Click to expand...
My opinions on those:

1) The only reason i see that a level 90+ could consider gore's to be any more effective then a "less then 90 char", is that open wounds does more damage at later levels. That is a pvp aspect, for a pvm amazon it will be insignificant and 90+ has nothing to do with whether you'd choice gore or WT.
From a pvm aspect (regardless of level) you should factor gore's CB+DS vs WT's +dmg+mf+stats, which one is better will depend on everything from bow damage to personal taste.
(Try this, currently most of my zons data in it, just edit it towards your equipment/stats/level :azn:)

2) Not having a merc isn't a problem as such, CDM mentioned one option for you, a good one, matri faith needs a bare minimum to reach 7 fpa.
Otherwise you can consider going for a more "pure strafe" bowside, that way a low ias will not be of any problem, specially since the discovery of the strafe x/2 speedbug.
For a 8 fpa with wf you could consider a 60 ias armor, though only reason I myself saw that as an option was to use a might&pride or might&infinity merc.
In short; lots of options, and you don't really need 4k+ to make the bowside viable, so even without merc it's not that bad. You might have to consider getting some more ar, to compensate for the loss of fana (lava gout gloves suggested).

The guide is aimed towards the physical (x)bow/lightning java amazon hybrids in general, no other requirements other then to use those attacks/weapons. Since people have been playing such hybrids for a long time, I have no authority to name the generalized build, but if you should choice to call your amazon "a gunslinger" I'll be honored. :wink:



 
Re: PvM Gunslinger - Physical Bow/Lightning Java Hybrid

Thanks for all the suggestions, I guess I should just test them and use the one of my personal taste. I also decided to try the original (with faith merc) option and then compare it to the lonely-striker ones^^ However, my sixth sense whispers me that runing cs (that's the main purpose of building that char) will be generally better with, not without a faithfull mercenary... Again, thank you for all of your help!
You may wish me goodluck as well, I plan full clears in 5+ games if possible, curently act1 nm EuScL, lvl 39... Didn't I mention the word "aloof" before?:)
 
Re: PvM Gunslinger - Physical Bow/Lightning Java Hybrid

Ok so I have my Hybrid built, basically in line with this guide, and she pretty much kicks ***.

I use WF (faith merc), titans and spirit, war travs, LoH, rare leech ring, raven, razortail, andys and fort.

The one thing I'm not sure about is the ammy. At the moment I have metalgrid, since my resists are fairly low and some more AR is never a bad thing.

The other option I'm considering is Hilords, in which would not only give me +1 skills, but its 20IAS would allow me to resocket my WF with a 40%ed jewel.

Are there any other good ammy options I should consider? (I dont have a spare maras sadly...)
 
Re: PvM Gunslinger - Physical Bow/Lightning Java Hybrid

davidmcc said:
Ok so I have my Hybrid built, basically in line with this guide, and she pretty much kicks ***.

I use WF (faith merc), titans and spirit, war travs, LoH, rare leech ring, raven, razortail, andys and fort.

The one thing I'm not sure about is the ammy. At the moment I have metalgrid, since my resists are fairly low and some more AR is never a bad thing.

The other option I'm considering is Hilords, in which would not only give me +1 skills, but its 20IAS would allow me to resocket my WF with a 40%ed jewel.

Are there any other good ammy options I should consider? (I dont have a spare maras sadly...)
Click to expand...
None I didn't mention among the ones suggested in the guide, highlords is the most balanced one if you're looking to increase your damage. If resistances is your call mara, rares or crafted amulets are your best bet. Metalgrid has resistance of course, but lacks +skills, so I'd go with anything with half the res and +2 skills.

If you go with highlords you may wish to consider something other then a 40ed jewel in your bow. Many runes provide interesting mods when socketed into a weapon, or you could free up your andys socket for and um rune to get a bit more res instead.



 
Re: PvM Gunslinger - Physical Bow/Lightning Java Hybrid

Hi,

This is a beautiful guide in so many ways! Truly amazing.

One question - as you're foregoing phoenix as a possible shield due to the fact that your attacks may be interrupted would you consider foregoing D/A/E too (personally I always have valk for my zons but I was wondering what you thought).

Cheers

*Pif

P.S. Although it's stickied it would be nice if it was also linked on the main guide page (maybe I missed it).
 
Re: PvM Gunslinger - Physical Bow/Lightning Java Hybrid

Pif said:
Hi,

This is a beautiful guide in so many ways! Truly amazing.

One question - as you're foregoing phoenix as a possible shield due to the fact that your attacks may be interrupted would you consider foregoing D/A/E too (personally I always have valk for my zons but I was wondering what you thought).

Cheers

*Pif

P.S. Although it's stickied it would be nice if it was also linked on the main guide page (maybe I missed it).
Click to expand...
D/A/E causes a delay because of a defensive action (avoiding an enemy attack), for the duration of 8 frames.
Phoenix causes a delay because of an offensive action (casting firestorm), for the duration of ~15 frames.

I'd say it's ok to interrupt your one of your attacks to avoid an incoming attack, but replacing two of your high damage attacks with a pitiful ~100ish damage firestorm is a pure annoyance.

So when compared, d/a/e isn't a 1/10 of the annoyance firestorm is, but you could still skip them if you wish, though I'd not recommend it.
Your valk and decoy are tools to avoid incoming fire, keep dolls from being to close etc. Halving the defensive wall will on a low budget be a bit risky in some locations, it's not a high life build. However, if you feel you kill your enemies fast enough before they pose a threat, and if you leech back your lost life fast enough, then you could of course do without a valk.

Just be careful in areas with extra fast monsters, specially dolls. Decoy can of course be used to great success once you've got the hang of it, but personally I'm just to lazy to recast every time I need a tank.



 
Re: PvM Gunslinger - Physical Bow/Lightning Java Hybrid

Kijya said:
Cham rune in your bow?
A cham rune would cause all and any bow to freeze its target, meaning that a multiple shot suddenly turns into a large area, high physical damage, freezing attack if you use a good base bow (such as windforce). The freeze duration would be very short, but in terms of safety make a big difference if you are struggling against enemies that can be frozen.
Click to expand...
Tested and shown not to work for anything but the center arrows, works somewhat with strafe.

The duration is most likely just as long as the freeze found on buriza, so try that one out if you wish to "test it".

If anyone has info on the true length of the freeze, please do enlighten us :smiley:



 
Re: PvM Gunslinger - Physical Bow/Lightning Java Hybrid

Unstickied and added ot the build guide today. Need space for another up and comer. :smiley:
 
Re: PvM Gunslinger - Physical Bow/Lightning Java Hybrid

Kijya said:
Tested and shown not to work for anything but the center arrows, works somewhat with strafe.

The duration is most likely just as long as the freeze found on buriza, so try that one out if you wish to "test it".

If anyone has info on the true length of the freeze, please do enlighten us :smiley:
Click to expand...

Would you like some cham in yer burrito sir? It doesn't stack I guess?
If not that would be the ultimate waste of a Cham :laugh:



 
Re: PvM Gunslinger - Physical Bow/Lightning Java Hybrid

Hi!
First of all, I'd like to thank you for the very well designed and detailed guide!
I'm interested in trying a Gunslinger of my own, and possibly making her as my first character on ladder season 5.
Do you think it would be possible to play this build 'untwinked'? How well do you think she would succeed, decent enough to give her a try?
Thanks for your replies in advance. :]
 
Re: PvM Gunslinger - Physical Bow/Lightning Java Hybrid

The build relies more upon the lightning skills the less wealth you have. Since pure javazons are viable fully untwinked, so is this build. However it will be played fairly much as if it was a java until you find a decent bow.

I'll suggest using harmony as your mid lvl bow (if you can find a ko) and strafe as your bowside main skill.

Gamble/buy javelins until you get maybe 2 or 3 sets of replenishing ones.


Insight for mana so you can spam LF/CS :thumbsup:

Will need a decent valkyrie to be able to survive hell.

Pits will prove the best hunting grounds to gain wealth in for this build I believe, socketables can get you a steady income. Cows can also be fairly good, seeing as LF will most likely be your main killer.



I myself haven't really played my own gunslingers untwinked much, but I've played both javas and bowzons on low budgets. Found out today that Blackwolf played the build as his first char this season, also BobTheWarrior made one in single player, maybe they'll share their experiences if you ask them.
 
Re: PvM Gunslinger - Physical Bow/Lightning Java Hybrid

After playing around with the editor as preperation for ladder season, FA is most likely going to do better than physical damage for untwinked. Heck possibly even for twinked.

Remember that you also need high dex and some AR items (charms usually) on top of that to have a good damage/second untwinked and even then you'd need minimum something like an upgraded buriza (which is better damage than harmony even though you can't really get faster than 12 frames, but you will be forced to put more into STR which is alright (buriza has +dex that makes up for it anyway)). Better bows are available of course but probably not without duping (windforce, faith and some extremely good rare are the only options I can think of that are stronger than upped buriza).

With freezing arrow the only problem you'll have with itemization is deciding between +3 bow/crossbow gloves to +3 jav/spear gloves (and possibly neck), rest of the gear should work for both builds equally.

With 200 mana you can do fine with mana pot abuse even without insight/mana per kill/leech/whatever. So don't let the mana arguments be a deciding factor.
 
Re: PvM Gunslinger - Physical Bow/Lightning Java Hybrid

I'm planning to use this great guide as my new ladder reset character.
However i need some help with it.
My Gears:
Helm:Shako/kiras
Armour:Chains of Honor(what armor would you recommend me to use for COH?)
Weapon1:Faith
Weapon2:Titans Revenge
Shield:Stormshield
Boots:war travs
the rest is undecided.
skills:
20 CS 20 LF
Max guided arrow(is it recommended?)
5-10 multishots(depends on how many +skills i will have)
passives not really sure...why 1 in all?
btw this will be my 1st char for ladder...hahas :D
any idea how to turn it to a MF? i remember reading one page theres a guy who asked MF too
but my com is lagging so its kinda hard to find it back.
 
Re: PvM Gunslinger - Physical Bow/Lightning Java Hybrid

and how exactly do you plan on getting a faith for your first character?
 
Re: PvM Gunslinger - Physical Bow/Lightning Java Hybrid

biasedlife said:
I'm planning to use this great guide as my new ladder reset character.
However i need some help with it.
My Gears:
Helm:Shako/kiras
Armour:Chains of Honor(what armor would you recommend me to use for COH?)
Weapon1:Faith
Weapon2:Titans Revenge
Shield:Stormshield
Boots:war travs
the rest is undecided.
skills:
20 CS 20 LF
Max guided arrow(is it recommended?)
5-10 multishots(depends on how many +skills i will have)
passives not really sure...why 1 in all?
btw this will be my 1st char for ladder...hahas :D
any idea how to turn it to a MF? i remember reading one page theres a guy who asked MF too
but my com is lagging so its kinda hard to find it back.
Click to expand...
CoH for you is probably best made in a wirefleece, since you're going for SS you should have the str for it and wire is the armor that looks the best on zons, good defense on it to, and it's classed as light armor so no speed penalty.

The selection of the other items will be dependent on if the faith you're thinking of getting is a GMB or MB, see amazon bp's link in my sign to see how much IAS you need to hit 7 fpa.

Max guided is commonly a waste in pvm, especially on this build since CS is your boss killer. Those points would do better to increase you CS synergies.

1 in all passives is simply because they don't need more on a higher budget build, might do on a lower budget, but not on a build such as the one you're listing. Just make sure to get 100% pierce with razortail (if you're using that belt), but other then that you always have to weight each point vs the gain from another point in a CS synergy. Worth considering is spending a few more in valkyrie, but on a high budget I found 1 point to be enough, getting higher CS damage by further synergy is my preference.

Here's the post about mf:
http://www.purediablo.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6366777#post6366777






Guess it shows that I love my lightning skills :whistling:



 
Re: PvM Gunslinger - Physical Bow/Lightning Java Hybrid

Wow... simply an excellent guide, in presentation as well as content. Great followup commentary too. I can't think of much to add, but props to you, Kijya, in any case. :yes:

(My fave Zon variant, too - I've built one every ladder season I've played.)
 
Re: PvM Gunslinger - Physical Bow/Lightning Java Hybrid

can i ask something?
i'm gonna create this tmr the new ladder reset.
so my stats will be?
str:156 for spirit(does not include anni & torch due to ladder reset)
dex:enough for bow/javelin
vit:the rest into it
energy:BASE.
starting from lvl 1:concentrate on javelin skills first.
stats will be added to dex till can achieve max 75% block with lousy shield.
if i'm gonna use spirit as shield, what's the bow i should make runeword Faith in?
 
Re: PvM Gunslinger - Physical Bow/Lightning Java Hybrid

biasedlife said:
can i ask something?
i'm gonna create this tmr the new ladder reset.
so my stats will be?
str:156 for spirit(does not include anni & torch due to ladder reset)
dex:enough for bow/javelin
vit:the rest into it
energy:BASE.
starting from lvl 1:concentrate on javelin skills first.
Stats will be added to dex till can achieve max 75% block with lousy shield.
if i'm gonna use spirit as shield, what's the bow i should make runeword Faith in?
Click to expand...
Stats look about right, assuming you're focusing somewhat on javelin. If you wish to increase your bow damage you should add points to vit until you have enough life for your taste, then pump dex with the rest rather then just going for what's required for your bow.

Faith in GMB or MB, which one is better depends on if you're going to use strafe or multi as your main bow attack, and your IAS.

Which bow attack do you wish to use primarly?



 
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