minimum damage griswold set-up

[saracen85]

minimum damage griswold set-up

just as what the topic says.. i'd like to try one out, but i have a few questions..

-what type of jewels would fit best in the weapon (228ed)? so far i have 29/6, 26/7, 37/5 ed/min damage jewels at my disposal, but would they provide me with better net min damage than plain min damage jewels (ie 10, 12, 13 min dmg)? the final jewel will probably be a plain 9min jewel..

-for a min damage build, is a plain 5 min dmg jewel = 10min/5max dmg jewel? would the the max damage on the latter be considered as wasted?

-do people actually collect/keep bloody GCs? how much would those with good 2ndary mods go for? (since we're on topic, might as well..=P)

-finally, for those who have tried this build, what is your damage like? any number to target?

EDIT: sorry abt the 2nd question. what i meant was 10min/5max dmg jewel instead of 5-10 dmg jewel.

 

[AJK]

just as what the topic says.. i'd like to try one out, but i have a few questions..

-what type of jewels would fit best in the weapon (228ed)? so far i have 29/6, 26/7, 37/5 ed/min damage jewels at my disposal, but would they provide me with better net min damage than plain min damage jewels (ie 10, 12, 13 min dmg)? the final jewel will probably be a plain 9min jewel..

A Caduceus' min. damage is 37. The ED% part of a jewel adds (37*ED%) to the minimum damage. Any added +min on the jewel is added straight on top of that, so
29/6 --> 0.29*37 + 6 = +16.7
26/7 --> 0.26*37 + 7 = +16.6
37/5 --> 0.37*37 + 5 = +18.7 <-- winner!

As you can see, a ED/min hybrid outperforms most straight +min. damage jewels if you socket them in your weapon. A plain 38% ED ruby jewel adds +14 to the minimum. The easiest jewels to find have 30+%ED and 5+ of min damage. The ideal jewel would be a magical 40%ED/+10min ruby of bliss. The supremely ideal jewel would be a 30%ED/+18min rare jewel.

-for a min damage build, is a plain 5 min dmg jewel = 5-10 dmg jewel? would the the max damage on the latter be considered as wasted?

As long as your min. damage exceeds your max. damage, any +max on jewels is horribly wasted, so you're right. A 5-10 jewel == a +5min jewel in that case.
For that reason, a war trav/gris' setup wastes 45 points of +max damage by default. From the numbers I crunched I reached the conclusion that a hybrid +min/+max setup will outperform a +min. damage avenger in all cases except in the case godly +min.damage jewels and/or 1.07 charms.

-do people actually collect/keep bloody GCs? how much would those with good 2ndary mods go for? (since we're on topic, might as well..=P)

I only grab bloody GCs from patch 1.07 for obvious reasons. In 1.10+, a pally combat skiller already adds (much) more damage than a +3 min. grand charm.

-finally, for those who have tried this build, what is your damage like? any number to target?

I've run a +min. setup through a spreadsheet once, using jewels I had at my disposal. I reached 4.8K min. damage at 8FPA. If you can find a +holy shield prebuff weapon, you have the skill points to fully synergize your vengeance, giving a bit higher damage.

 

[Asmodeous1]

It has been done before.

http://www.purediablo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=466564

Basically, the secret behind that kind of damage is v1.07 damage charms. My own comparable griswold avenger who is all straight damage is achieving 6 kay average damage at 8 fps which is about as far as you can go with v1.09 and later available items.
Interestingly, If I converted him to a min damage set up, His average damage would only increase by 100 points with the items that I have available currently with out v1.07 charms.
I have begun running v1.07 for these charms and so far have found two good ones, an 11-7 and +14 to max damage. These two charms alone have raised my grissy avenger to 6.3 kay average damage. (they replaced 2 skillers) If I can find a couple of the really good ones, +30 or so to max damage then my avenger will be heading towards 7 kay average damage @ 8fps which is comparable to 8 kay damage @ 9 fps.

A prebuff item for holy shield is fairly easily shopped in v1.09. I am currently running v1.09d for more runes so If you want one, say pretty please. ( you too AJK)

Oh, and if you want to go thru with the plan still, let me know. I have at least a couple of +16 to min damage jewels I think in stock which I don't need seeing that my own griswold avenger is as far as I can go apart from the back pack charms.
Ideally, I'd be socketing the weapon full of 40% ed jewels then load the rest of the set up with min damage.
Guess I better go thru my stock and see what I have that you'll need!

 

[saracen85]

thx ajk & asmo..
i'm actually gonna go for the fanazealot build, keeping in view that the set may be reused for an avenger build as well..

A Caduceus' min. damage is 37. The ED% part of a jewel adds (37*ED%) to the minimum damage. Any added +min on the jewel is added straight on top of that, so
29/6 --> 0.29*37 + 6 = +16.7
26/7 --> 0.26*37 + 7 = +16.6
37/5 --> 0.37*37 + 5 = +18.7 <-- winner!

As you can see, a ED/min hybrid outperforms most straight +min. damage jewels if you socket them in your weapon. A plain 38% ED ruby jewel adds +14 to the minimum. The easiest jewels to find have 30+%ED and 5+ of min damage. The ideal jewel would be a magical 40%ED/+10min ruby of bliss. The supremely ideal jewel would be a 30%ED/+18min rare jewel.

Ideally, I'd be socketing the weapon full of 40% ed jewels then load the rest of the set up with min damage.

my dilemma on the weapon is that the %ed would bring up its max dmg as well. plus, the set bonus of 40 max dmg makes it harder for the min dmg to catch up. will this really matter, in terms of wasted max dmg points?

and also, is it safe to say that a +7min dmg is as good as a +7min/7max dmg jewel?

thx again..can't wait to try this out.. seeing 4xxx-4xxx damage in the lcs seems cool.=)

 

[AJK]

my dilemma on the weapon is that the %ed would bring up its max dmg as well. plus, the set bonus of 40 max dmg makes it harder for the min dmg to catch up. will this really matter, in terms of wasted max dmg points?

The funny thing about min.damage avengers is that the amount of +min socketed off-weapon and from the set/boots is so high (it's not too hard to get >+100 min. damage) that a good +min socketing plan has no problems whatsoever to overtake the increase in +max, rendering an increase in the weapon's max damage irrelevant.

and also, is it safe to say that a +7min dmg is as good as a +7min/7max dmg jewel?

In case of a min. damage Griswold's avenger, yes.

 

[saracen85]

aaah..thx again ajk. btw min dmg boots? is it a rare?
well, i can't wait to wear this beauty of a ring, perfect for such build=)

Doom Hold
Ring
Required Level: 65
Item Version: 1.10+ Expansion
Item Level: 80
Fingerprint: 0x487ec5ad
+49 to Attack Rating
+9 to Minimum Damage
Fire Resist +30%
Lightning Resist +30%
8% Life stolen per hit

 

[AJK]

aaah..thx again ajk. btw min dmg boots? is it a rare?

War Traveler. No avenger is complete without it.
The boots add 15 to min and 25 to max.

And giev ring?

 

[yiuman]

It has been done before.

http://www.purediablo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=466564

Basically, the secret behind that kind of damage is v1.07 damage charms. My own comparable griswold avenger who is all straight damage is achieving 6 kay average damage at 8 fps which is about as far as you can go with v1.09 and later available items.

If I understood that post properly, he considered 1.07 min damage charms but then wrote them off saying that they weren't powerful enough (only +11 on a grand charm) and were way too rare.

The secret to his success was near perfect jewels.

Using the caddy he posted
Griswold's Redemption
Caduceus
One-Hand Damage: 235 to 239
+365% Enhanced Damage
+43 to Minimum Damage
Cold Resist +20%
Requirements -20%
40% Increased Attack Speed
350% Damage to Undead

and having the rest of the set filled with +18min dmg jewels thats another 144 min dmg +15 from war travs and say +11 from jewelery and charms, that'd give plain damage of 405-406.

With a level 30 vengeance synergised giving +1350% elemental dmg +187% dmg from str +320% dmg from might, you'd get 405 to 406*(19.57)= 7925 to 7945 dmg

This is slightly lower than the damage that DNT posted, but I’m going to put that down to the LCS being the LCS, him having a few charms he didn’t mention (another +8min would make the difference) or a slightly different skill setup (I just assumed a flat +10skills, so 15 in conviction, 20 in vengance and the rest in the synergies). I also note that his damage is in a much tighter range than mine – am I calculating the damage in the correct way?

 

[AJK]

With a level 30 vengeance synergised by the resistance auras (no sanctuary) giving +1332% elemental dmg +187% dmg from str +320% dmg from might, you'd get 405 to 406*(19.39)= 7852 to 7872 dmg

Small nit: make that +220% might bonus.

Otherwise, the calculation sounds solid. That's how I implemented it in my simulation too.

 

[yiuman]

Small nit: make that +220% might bonus.

Otherwise, the calculation sounds solid. That's how I implemented it in my simulation too.

I thought that might was uncapped and could go up to level 30 (at DNTs level his merc would have had a level 29 might giving +320%). Has this changed? And if so, when?

 

[Naab]

20 is max lvl on mercs auras now AFAIK.

 

[yiuman]

20 is max lvl on mercs auras now AFAIK.

The merc faq in the stickies has might down as being uncapped in patch 1.10 and there is nothing in the patch notes to say that this has changed..... (not that that means it wasn't changed).

 

[Asmodeous1]

If I understood that post properly, he considered 1.07 min damage charms but then wrote them off saying that they weren't powerful enough (only +11 on a grand charm) and were way too rare.

The secret to his success was near perfect jewels.

Using the caddy he posted
Griswold's Redemption
Caduceus
One-Hand Damage: 235 to 239
+365% Enhanced Damage
+43 to Minimum Damage
Cold Resist +20%
Requirements -20%
40% Increased Attack Speed
350% Damage to Undead

and having the rest of the set filled with +18min dmg jewels thats another 144 min dmg +15 from war travs and say +11 from jewelery and charms, that'd give plain damage of 405-406.

With a level 30 vengeance synergised giving +1350% elemental dmg +187% dmg from str +320% dmg from might, you'd get 405 to 406*(19.57)= 7925 to 7945 dmg

This is slightly lower than the damage that DNT posted, but I’m going to put that down to the LCS being the LCS, him having a few charms he didn’t mention (another +8min would make the difference) or a slightly different skill setup (I just assumed a flat +10skills, so 15 in conviction, 20 in vengance and the rest in the synergies). I also note that his damage is in a much tighter range than mine – am I calculating the damage in the correct way?

Ah, I have been slightly misunderstood, probably due to the way I structured my post.

The OP asked if a min damage has been done before which I posted the link for. Then I should have said something to change the subject or perhaps elaborated a little better with my next paragraph. I was refering to my own avenger and how to get more damage for a straight damage build, being v1.07 damage jewels. But that depends on how much room you have in the back pack for resistances. Grissies set will leave your resistances in the low positives Hell depending on shield auto mod.
With a min damage set up you basically plug the suit full of min damage then fix the resistances with the back pack. However with a straight damage set up with access to v1.07 damage charms, you are better getting your resistances on equipment with shimmering/scintillating jewls of bliss/carnage etc and make room in the back pack for a nice damage charm.
Yes, teds secret was mostly the ed/min damage jewels in the caddy which gives the same average damage as my own 415% ed caddy, but as you see, his min damage is much higher which works much better for a min damage set up.

As a comparision, my griswold avenger's total weapon damage is 282-358 and currently, another 11 - 42 in back pack charms for a total of 293 - 400. But with a couple of decent v1.07 charms, I am aiming for the 300 - 450 range.

Oh, and my understanding is that the best min damage jewel you can get is +17 in v1.10+, unless v1.07 jewels can get higher.

 

[yiuman]

Oh, and my understanding is that the best min damage jewel you can get is +17 in v1.10+, unless v1.07 jewels can get higher.

Not sure about 1.07 (RTB?) but from the Arreat Summit

Crimson +5-8 To Minimum Damage Jewels(38)
of Bliss +5-10 To Minimum Damage Jewels(43)

8+10=18

ergo, max on a 1.10 jewel is 18. Ideally that would be on a rare with ED and/or res.

Ignoring the ultra rare +18min damage/10res rare jewels....

I think the tradeoff of using 1.07charms for +min and jewels for +res won't make a huge difference. For 15%res from a jewel you lose +8min damage, for 15%res from charms (3 small 5%res charms) you lose +11min damage from a charm but could get 3 nice suffixs to make up for it.

Of course, once you've got resistances covered, 1.07 charms are the way to go, but I don't think that they would make a huge difference to the build.

 

[SourImplant]

Is it possible to actually make a weapon with more minimum damage than maximum? Would this open up some sort of vortex and destroy reality as we know it?

 

[purplelocust]

Is it possible to actually make a weapon with more minimum damage than maximum? Would this open up some sort of vortex and destroy reality as we know it?

Not exactly- if the min damage ends up being more than the max damage, the maximum damage is reset to the min damage +1. You can see this on Isenhart's Sword, for example, where a base broad sword does 7-14 damage but the +10 min damage on Isenhart's Sword results in 17-18 damage instead of 17 to 14.

Apparently, for throwing weapons, the +1 is left off and the max is just set to the min. So it is possible to have an item with no variation in damage for throwing. That was one of the objects in one of Quickdeath's excellent Scavenger Hunts.

 

[Eric Xanthu]

Or for an easy-to-make example:

Gemmed Crystal Sword
One-Hand Damage: 29 to 30
Durability: 20 of 20
Required Strength: 43
Required Level: 3
Sword Class - Normal Attack Speed
Item Version: 1.10+ Expansion
Item Level: 79
Fingerprint: 0xa0695516
+24 to Minimum Damage
Socketed (6: 6 used)

That's 6 jewels of joyfulness, +4 min damage each.

 

[Asmodeous1]

Not sure about 1.07 (RTB?) but from the Arreat Summit

Crimson +5-8 To Minimum Damage Jewels(38)
of Bliss +5-10 To Minimum Damage Jewels(43)

8+10=18

ergo, max on a 1.10 jewel is 18. Ideally that would be on a rare with ED and/or res.

Ignoring the ultra rare +18min damage/10res rare jewels....

I stand corrected. I was told that +17 was the best min damage jewel available by people selling me such jewels. Still, they where the best I could trade for. I have seen plenty of +16 & +17.

I think the tradeoff of using 1.07charms for +min and jewels for +res won't make a huge difference. For 15%res from a jewel you lose +8min damage, for 15%res from charms (3 small 5%res charms) you lose +11min damage from a charm but could get 3 nice suffixs to make up for it.

Of course, once you've got resistances covered, 1.07 charms are the way to go, but I don't think that they would make a huge difference to the build.

In a perfect world where you have access to the jewels. With my build I struck a balance between the best jewels I had. When I rebuilt my avenger I did look at going min damage but with the jewels that I have access too, It worked out that I would get more damage using min/max damage instead. Same with using resist all jewels of damage versus all damage. It comes down to what you have at the end of the day.

 

[yiuman]

In a perfect world where you have access to the jewels. With my build I struck a balance between the best jewels I had. When I rebuilt my avenger I did look at going min damage but with the jewels that I have access too, It worked out that I would get more damage using min/max damage instead. Same with using resist all jewels of damage versus all damage. It comes down to what you have at the end of the day.

You make a very good point. It is hard to make use of equipment that you don't have! My point was that you don't need 1.07 charms to make this build shine, particularly as most people don't have them at all. Of course in an ideal world you'd have both uber jewels and 1.07 charms. That would be nice.....

 

[Eric Xanthu]

I want to raise a Gris Avenger question and this is the most recent thread on them. Also note, this question is really going to sound like some kind of heresy or insanity on Single Player and involve insane amounts of player wealth. You have been warned...

Has anyone ever tried/considered a Griswold Avenger with a Rogue mercenary wielding a (gulp) Faith Great Bow? Yes, yes, I know we're talking about Jah etc. Consider it something to work toward. With a lvl 14 fanaticism, vengeance only requires 30 IAS to hit 8 frames. That's a trivial amount, allowing a "true" min damage socketing with a slew of 16-18 carmine of bliss jewels.

Ever dreamed this dream, Asmo?