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I could use some grail advice...

ehertlein

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Mar 14, 2004
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I could use some grail advice...

I am looking to collect as many items as I can and I was looking for some advice on improving my collection. You can see what I have so far at http://increment.cx/diabloii/report.html.

I have two characters right now, an 83 Fishymancer and a 74 Meteorb. Just hoping some folks who have done this before can point me in the right direction because I don't feel like I am making much progress at all.
 

Elgaran

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May 22, 2005
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Start running Hell Meph.
Given your current equipment this is likely to be quite slow at first, but with a bit of patience you will start filling in that grail list
 

TheWormishOne

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May 10, 2005
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ehertlein said:
I am looking to collect as many items as I can and I was looking for some advice on improving my collection. You can see what I have so far at http://increment.cx/diabloii/report.html.

I have two characters right now, an 83 Fishymancer and a 74 Meteorb. Just hoping some folks who have done this before can point me in the right direction because I don't feel like I am making much progress at all.

It's hard to offer any advice without knowing what you're currently doing.

There's lots of stuff still missing that can be dropped by Hell Mephisto. With a good map your Meteorb should be able to kill him at a decent rate. If you also use the moat-trick he's not very dangerous.

For the last bunch of high end items you should run the WSK and Baal with your Fishymancer - check out Nighfish' excellent miniguide for this. If it's not in the stickies a quick forum search should bring you to it.

Do note that grailing takes patience, and lots of it.

Good luck!
 

ricrestoni

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Jul 29, 2003
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I've given some thought on the matter, and I guess that if you really want to complete the grail, you have to create a great Baal or lvl85 area runner. Then you should equip him with the best equipment Hell Meph can provide. And then farm those areas until one of these two things happen:

- you find a tyrael's Might
- you die

After finding tyraels, all things become clearer. By that time, if you don't have them yet, get an Arachnid's Mesh and an Azurewrath from Meph, the cow set from NM cows, and the rest from Pindle.

This is, I think, the best approach to finish the grail, but I cannot force myself into running Baal more than a couple of times per session, or doing Tunnel runs for more then 2 straight hours, so what I do is to alternate between Meph, Pindle, Baal, Tunnels, the Pit and the Cow Level. Works for me without burning the game out.

Also using different chars is great to let the MF sessions less boring.

In your specific case, Meteorb = Meph and Fishy = Baal. Do try it! Good luck!
 

SharnMes

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May 2, 2005
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I have collected around 66% of all items in the game and I did so by running andy, meph and baal in every run. I used to run level 85 areas but they just plain suck!

Boss running are WAY more profitable

I have achived the above collection i about 3 months playing time so far (on and off playing other games as well) and since ive compiled a log I have the proof to back it up.

Im using a summonmance with CE as a backup.
 

Death_StrikeR

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Jun 23, 2003
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All you need is spend a "lot" more time on Hell Mephisto...
Or Hell Andariel...

And then, I assume after doing so.. you have multiples of each items...
And if you think you have a decent killing speed with somehow a 200+ MF on you... then, do some WSK runs/Baal Runs/Pit runs/lvl85 areas... for those uber items you missed..
 

logger120

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Dec 28, 2004
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my advice take the meteorb and run hell meph until you eyes pop out. hopefully this gets you some decent stuff and a few levels. then run pindle and wsk/baal. pindy never drops anything for me (which doesnt stop me from killing him since it takes so little effort) but some people swear by him. then hit up the wsk/baal. i prefer the wsk to other lvl85 areas b/c baal and his minions are waiting for you at the end.

i recently recorded the results for 1000 baal runs (with limited killing in the wsk). needless to say i found 85% of a self-found grail.

if you are intrested in what i found
this is the last thread from the runs: http://www.purediablo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=371302
this is the flavie report for the runs: http://www.freewebs.com/logger120/baalreport.htm
 

essojay

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Theoretically, grailers are wasting time on meph because all of the items he drops will have dropped many times by the time you get a Tyrael's Might from Baal.
 

Hrus

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All that matters at the end is Tyrael's Might and all other TC87 items. Baal has very bad chance to drop from TC87, that's why people are running lvl 85 areas / Pindle (all other TC87 but no TM). Starting with Hell Mephisto Meph runs is good idea, but don't wait until he drops everything he can and start to run lvl 85 areas. The Tyrael's Might armor is very hard to find...
 

ehertlein

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Mar 14, 2004
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Then I guess what I really need to do is not worry so much about the items right now and start building my characters. My Meteorb has just finished Andariel in Hell and that was a lot of work, my Summoner, although he is a Pat from help from others, has a LOT of trouble in Durance and WSK. Gloams espcially.

Thanks for all the advice, I'll keep plodding along!
 

Shagsbeard

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Jul 12, 2004
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There are some items in the game that are so rare, you'll have the rest many times over before you get them. So, one philosophy is to only "try" for these items, and let the rest kind of take care of themselves. Running hell meph is great for building your strength up to where you can efficiently run hell baal. But run him, killing bosses on the way from WSII port to him and you're not far from from optimal progress. Realize that we're talking tens of thousands of runs... not just a few. You're going to have to kill Baal over and over, hopefully about ever five minutes or so, for about a year before you even have a chance to complete the grail. Someone figured out the expected number of runs a while back... it was on the order of 150,000.

Atma has this to say:
With 200 MF on players 3, Baal has a .000006 chance of dropping Tyreal's Might. That means the expected number of kills at this level is 166,666 approximately. Seeing that there are other items that are of similar difficulty, I'd plan on about 200,000 runs or so. If you can get it down to 5 minutes a run, which I never have, that's 33,333 hours of play, or about 1400 days.... full days. That's a whole mess of time wasted on a video game.

Now... see why we call it the grail?
 

Shagsbeard

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The classic quest for the holy grail was one where the quest was more important than the achievement of the quest. During the quest, the knights learned what it meant to be noble and holy and all that. The actual finding of the grail was unimportant. That's kind of what Diablo is like. It's not the gaining of that last item that's the important part, it's the quest itself. You'll find people who are within a few items of completing the self found grail, but after two years of play, I think I'm at about 75%.

Don't give up the quest... just give up the notion that it's not worth doing simply because it takes an eternity.
 

ehertlein

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Fair enough.

I was reading loggers posts about his 1000 runs through Baal. Honestly his character isn't a ton better then mine. There are few areas where I am lacking (armor and levels) but other then that... This says to me that I am doing something terribly wrong.

My Meteorb is level 81. Her current base stats are:
Str: 80, Dex 140, Vit 120, Eng 35

She has 20 in Fireball, 20 in Meteor, 12 in Fire Mastery, 1 in Warmth
She has 20 in Frozen Orb, 5 in Cold Mastery

Her current gear is:
Head - Harlequin Crest
Amulet - Tal Rasha's Ajudication
Weapon - Ethereal Oculus
Body - 2 Perfect Topaz Serpentskin Armor (def 118)
Shield - Lidless Wall
Gloves - Chance Guards
Belt - Gold Wrap
Boots - Rare Heavy Boots (def 5, heal stam +25%, cold res +13%, poison resist +19%, 24% magic find, 10% FHR, half freeze duration)
Rings - 2 Nagelrings (one 28% one 30% mf)
Switch - Blade of Ali Baba (with 1 Ist so far) and a "Rhyme" Heater

She has a few charms, the only one I think is any good is the 7%mf small charm she has.

My Merc has:
Head - Tal Rasha's Horadric Crest
Weapon - "Insight" Superior Bec-de-Corbin
Armor - Corpsemourn

I just finished Diablo in Hell. When I do runs on Meph in Hell in takes me quite a while. He just seems to mow down my Merc. Without the Merc I seem really starved for mana because I don't have his meditation aura any more. I can't imagine how I would be able to run Baal any time soon. I feel like I am still really behind in the power curve.

Any ideas?
 

PsionicAngel

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The key to run Hell Mephisto is your mercenary. You could run him naked with a really good one.

So my advice would be to improve your merc's gear before you start thinking about improving your own.

Mine has never died from Hell Meph in ages. Here is his setup :

Helm : Vampire Gaze
Armor : Shaftstop
Weapon : The Reaper's Toll.

Why these choices ? Meph isn't really intelligent.. Surprise !
He does not use his elemental attacks too often when you are fighting him melee, or when your merc is fighting him melee. So you can focus your merc's gear on Physical Damage Reduced, because physical damage is what he'll be dealing with the most. That explains the Gaze and the Shaft. Then we come to the weapon. The Reaper's Toll is used for it's chance to cast Decrepify. That'll help a TON !!! Combined with the cold damage from Frozen Orb, Decrepify will reduce Mephisto's attack rate soooo much.

So you'll be free to take all your time to kill Mephy, while only needing 1-2 Healing pots to give to your merc.

Oh, and one last advice, get used to SHIFT+1 to give pots to your merc, that's useful.

Hope it helps :)
 

CWOT

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Jul 8, 2003
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Defiance or HolyFreeze merc with life leech...drink blues and use killing gear
on Sorc, increase ColdMastery until lvl 17
 

PsionicAngel

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CWOT said:
Defiance or HolyFreeze merc with life leech...drink blues and use killing gear
on Sorc, increase ColdMastery until lvl 17


But do keep in mind that Meph can't be leeched. But the part on Cold Mastery being at least lvl 17 is very important. ;)
 

Nightfish

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It's already been said but what you gotta do is work your way down from the rarest item. Run where tyrael's might can actually drop and once you got that fill the holes. Personally I did about 500 Hell Meph runs before concentrating on baal just to get some of the more useful items. What you don't want to do is run meph until you have everything he can give you. Big waste of time. Quite frankly, most of the stuff meph can give you will have dropped again in the WS K by the time you get the tyrael's.

If you've got problems with your fishymancer in the WS K, I wrote a guide specifically for people with issues there. It's around somewhere.