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Grief Question..

SlainByPain

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Jul 8, 2004
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Grief Question..

Wasn't entirely sure where to post this, but I have a few questions about grief. Is the + damage no grief added on the weapon damage (invisible) or is it an outside source of damage? This is not for smite, I'm making a charger and trying to find out if a grief PB would acutually do 400-400 base damage.
 

Phyrexial

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Jun 23, 2003
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SlainByPain said:
Wasn't entirely sure where to post this, but I have a few questions about grief. Is the + damage no grief added on the weapon damage (invisible) or is it an outside source of damage? This is not for smite, I'm making a charger and trying to find out if a grief PB would acutually do 400-400 base damage.
The damage is invisible as it won't show up in the character screen, but you are correct in your assumption that it would add 400 to your base weapon damage min and max ontop of whatever the base weapon's damage is. So a perfect +400 Grief in a Phase would be 431-435 damage base.
 

eA-Zaku

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Jul 21, 2003
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What I'd like to know is why the hell it doesn't show up on the screen.

Say for example, somebody had a godly charge; which due to Grief's ungodly + damage, deals say 20k damage (making this up)

Would the character screen (c button by default) display a far lower damage (say...2k) as if Grief's +400 damage never existed? The char screen displays charge damage with a non-modded Phase Blade, while in reality, the Phase Blade has +400 to both minimum and maximum damage. Correct?
 

Phyrexial

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Jun 23, 2003
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eA-Zaku said:
What I'd like to know is why the hell it doesn't show up on the screen.

Say for example, somebody had a godly charge; which due to Grief's ungodly + damage, deals say 20k damage (making this up)

Would the character screen (c button by default) display a far lower damage (say...2k) as if Grief's +400 damage never existed? The char screen displays charge damage with a non-modded Phase Blade, while in reality, the Phase Blade has +400 to both minimum and maximum damage. Correct?
Correct. +chars
 

luis19

Member
Mar 28, 2004
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dr works vs grief.

im been sadly dissapointed by all the grief smiters i've dueled so far.
 

Choson

Banned
Jul 1, 2005
317
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luis19 said:
dr works vs grief.

im been sadly dissapointed by all the grief smiters i've dueled so far.

I agree luis I have yet to see a smiter from ladder with skill on east.
 

-Ferro-

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Jun 25, 2003
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Neuroff said:
Good barbs will always beat good smiters. Sure smiters can use grief, but so can barbs.

Totally different issue. Grief for a WW barb is the same as a Ebotd barb damage-wise. This is, a 400 damage average weapon (moreless).

Grief on smiters is like having a 44x base average smite damage shield. The elite shields used to give 46 base smite damage average, we are talking of 10 times more base shield damage. Never seen before.

For the others, if you think grief smiters from ladder are unskilled (which could be true, that happens every time blizzard makes and overpowered skill/char), just put grief on your hands (if you think you are skilled) or in any eventual expert smiter you can think right now. And see the diference. We are talking 5 times more smite damage (in the case u dont use forti nor old phoenix) than with any ohter previous build/setup. Thats just too much.

Smiter with zerk grief and exile is so hard to beat for any ww barb, for any char.
 

Bigrob

Banned
May 20, 2005
873
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dmg isnt everything. The first thing u need to do is...can u hit a moving ww barb with smite?

Whenever a ww barb is ww away from u, there is no way u can get close and smite. Doing that u just get urself killed.
 

kmk-soldier

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Jan 22, 2005
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-Ferro- said:
Totally different issue. Grief for a WW barb is the same as a Ebotd barb damage-wise. This is, a 400 damage average weapon (moreless).

Grief on smiters is like having a 44x base average smite damage shield. The elite shields used to give 46 base smite damage average, we are talking of 10 times more base shield damage. Never seen before.

For the others, if you think grief smiters from ladder are unskilled (which could be true, that happens every time blizzard makes and overpowered skill/char), just put grief on your hands (if you think you are skilled) or in any eventual expert smiter you can think right now. And see the diference. We are talking 5 times more smite damage (in the case u dont use forti nor old phoenix) than with any ohter previous build/setup. Thats just too much.

Smiter with zerk grief and exile is so hard to beat for any ww barb, for any char.

ive dueled yesterday a smite with grief and exile with my barb and like u said its very hard.the guy had 4k life, huge def, huge dmg...
only could take him out twice, he defeated me four times
I think he could take me out with 5 hits and ive got 6k life and 35% dr, not that bad I thought....

guess a good caster is better vs those smiters then a melee char
but thats just my opinion
 

Neuroff

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Dec 15, 2003
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Grief does much more damage than a botd for barbs... if you tried using it you would know that. If grief smiters are so overpowered, why was I was beating every smiter on ladder with my barb using crap charms?
 

Arutha

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May 20, 2004
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Most of the smiters I have seen you can tell they don't really know what they are doing. They just slap on a grief and think that will make them undefeatable, there are however a very small % that do know what they are doing and are dangerous.
 

-Ferro-

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Noob smiters are easily killed by barbs. Just ww away and if the pala is so dumb to follow the barb hes just dead. As dumb as a WW barb wwing through the smiter. We are not talking of any of this here, so lets agree on this part and not to mention again.

Any decent smiter knows when facing a ww barb he has to shift smite while standing still for 2 reasons (lets assume both barb and pala has the same range weapon, any decent smiter will use zerker grief vs ww barb):

#1 IF the barb wanna hit the pala, he has to get in range, so he will get hit as well. If the barb just WW away, there wont be such a duel at all.

#2 doing shift smite, defense is at max (you know whenever you run or walk, defense dropps to zero). Block is also maxed when standing (as well as when you walk, but as I said you lose defense if so).

Once setted the above circumstances, it is so easy to understand the pala has much more chances to hit than the barb.

The only thing the barb can do is, ww on triangle around the pala, praying for few lucky hits, because since ww hits more times than smite per second, this can happen inbetween 2 smite swings, the first one the barb wasnt in range yet, the second one the barb was out of range already, if the barb was exactly in range in the middle of both, he has a chance to get a hit without being smited back. But this only can happen when ww is performed in a perfect tangential line to the smite range (sorry dont know if ive explained it clear enough, my english is limited). If you get too close youll get hits, if too far u wont hit. Anyway there are very good barbs out there playing this trick very well, and this tactic works fine indeed. But so there are palas, and there are also a couple of tactics to counter this:

1.-When barb ww triangle on you, since the wws tends to be kinda repetitive on its layout and easy to calculate the direction once it has started, any smart pala will teleport right in the middle of the patch of the ww but some steps further, and will let the barb WW over him to smite with rage :p . Since while teleport block and def are maxed, this actually works very well. When the barb is not very good and do the tangential ww so long, teleport is not even needed, the pala can place himself in the ww way waiting for the barb to come by just shift charging.

2.- When shift smite, as I described above, you have the risk to mis hits due to the short time a ww barb is on range (when he is good). The pala just press shift key, namelock, and smite on the air waiting for the barb to come. The question is, how can I calculate and most important, release the smite swing when barb is exactly on range? a trick to do this is, make all the shift smite but with other skill unable to work selected. You are namelocking the barb, pressing the button although you your pala makes nothing. When you see the barb is exactly on range, with hotkey select smite, in the way the first hit is released whenever the barb is at the closest distance. This requires some skill, and doesnt works well with desync. But still helps.


About the power of grief, I go on, smite is more powerfull than barbs ww, but at the same time, harder to play in the right way vs a ww barb than the barb vs smiter.

To finish my post, indeed grief deals some more damage than ebotd on a ww barb, (25% more, may be?) But as I stated, grief gives like 400% more smite damage to the palas.

And any smiter trying to beat a ww barb with a phase blade is just losing many chances to win. Even like that, you the people who killed grief smiters repetetively (I dont doubt at all of what you say, dont get me wrong), did you ever faced any playing as I explained above? If so, I dont think you were saying grief palas are easy to beat :pPP

With respect,

Fer
 

Choson

Banned
Jul 1, 2005
317
0
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33
Canada
-Ferro- said:
Noob smiters are easily killed by barbs. Just ww away and if the pala is so dumb to follow the barb hes just dead. As dumb as a WW barb wwing through the smiter. We are not talking of any of this here, so lets agree on this part and not to mention again.

Any decent smiter knows when facing a ww barb he has to shift smite while standing still for 2 reasons (lets assume both barb and pala has the same range weapon, any decent smiter will use zerker grief vs ww barb):

#1 IF the barb wanna hit the pala, he has to get in range, so he will get hit as well. If the barb just WW away, there wont be such a duel at all.

#2 doing shift smite, defense is at max (you know whenever you run or walk, defense dropps to zero). Block is also maxed when standing (as well as when you walk, but as I said you lose defense if so).

Once setted the above circumstances, it is so easy to understand the pala has much more chances to hit than the barb.

The only thing the barb can do is, ww on triangle around the pala, praying for few lucky hits, because since ww hits more times than smite per second, this can happen inbetween 2 smite swings, the first one the barb wasnt in range yet, the second one the barb was out of range already, if the barb was exactly in range in the middle of both, he has a chance to get a hit without being smited back. But this only can happen when ww is performed in a perfect tangential line to the smite range (sorry dont know if ive explained it clear enough, my english is limited). If you get too close youll get hits, if too far u wont hit. Anyway there are very good barbs out there playing this trick very well, and this tactic works fine indeed. But so there are palas, and there are also a couple of tactics to counter this:

1.-When barb ww triangle on you, since the wws tends to be kinda repetitive on its layout and easy to calculate the direction once it has started, any smart pala will teleport right in the middle of the patch of the ww but some steps further, and will let the barb WW over him to smite with rage :p . Since while teleport block and def are maxed, this actually works very well. When the barb is not very good and do the tangential ww so long, teleport is not even needed, the pala can place himself in the ww way waiting for the barb to come by just shift charging.

2.- When shift smite, as I described above, you have the risk to mis hits due to the short time a ww barb is on range (when he is good). The pala just press shift key, namelock, and smite on the air waiting for the barb to come. The question is, how can I calculate and most important, release the smite swing when barb is exactly on range? a trick to do this is, make all the shift smite but with other skill unable to work selected. You are namelocking the barb, pressing the button although you your pala makes nothing. When you see the barb is exactly on range, with hotkey select smite, in the way the first hit is released whenever the barb is at the closest distance. This requires some skill, and doesnt works well with desync. But still helps.


About the power of grief, I go on, smite is more powerfull than barbs ww, but at the same time, harder to play in the right way vs a ww barb than the barb vs smiter.

To finish my post, indeed grief deals some more damage than ebotd on a ww barb, (25% more, may be?) But as I stated, grief gives like 400% more smite damage to the palas.

And any smiter trying to beat a ww barb with a phase blade is just losing many chances to win. Even like that, you the people who killed grief smiters repetetively (I dont doubt at all of what you say, dont get me wrong), did you ever faced any playing as I explained above? If so, I dont think you were saying grief palas are easy to beat :pPP

With respect,

Fer

Few things here a good barb will use a widow if the pally shift smites and switch and ww away if the pally chases rinse and repeat most pallys on east I have seen so far are using phase blades. I'll also leave you with the funniest remark I got from a smiter so far for using widow "Pussy barb take that bow off bows are for amazons Rofl Noob"
Exits Game*
 

Arutha

Member
May 20, 2004
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Choson said:
Few things here a good barb will use a widow if the pally shift smites and switch and ww away if the pally chases rinse and repeat most pallys on east I have seen so far are using phase blades. I'll also leave you with the funniest remark I got from a smiter so far for using widow "Pussy barb take that bow off bows are for amazons Rofl Noob"
Exits Game*

These are the smiters that have no clue what they are doing and think that if they slap on a greif they are godly, and there are probably many other problems with their gear aswell besides the phase blade. These are the ones that I see join games called "zeal duels" with their smiter and my zealer can kill them smite vs. smite with only 1 point in it, since they don't have a clue what they are doing.
 

RTB

Member
Jun 21, 2003
5,108
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Dimension of Numbers
-Ferro- said:
#2 doing shift smite, defense is at max (you know whenever you run or walk, defense dropps to zero). Block is also maxed when standing (as well as when you walk, but as I said you lose defense if so).
You don't lose defense if you walk.
 

Neuroff

Member
Dec 15, 2003
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62
Shift smiters are just as easy. If you know how to whirl, you won't even get hit. I'm not talking about phase grief smiters either.