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BVC ladder > BVB non ladder??

toolthegod

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Jul 5, 2003
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BVC ladder > BVB non ladder??

Sup y'all? Now before you start flamming, let me just say this. Non-ladder players are not used to putting up with the new runewords like ladder chars are. These things are godly. (talking to ppl who play only non)
I dueled 4 barbs lastnight with my BVC, and I mean to tell you I won all four. but they were all non ladder players, I would show then my greif, "that sucks, my botd is better, it's over 400%" (38/397 grief. had to brag sorry)
NOW, I am not saying that I have a godly char no barbs can kill me, I'm not saying that. I'm just saying, with the ladder runewords, ladder chars > non ladder chars it seems. (watch a smiter enter a game of non-ladder players)
I know there are lots of kick "you know what" BVB chars on non, but do you really think a BVB can kill a BVB ladder? (with the same fighting style.)
I not saying that just cues you throw on some godly runewords thats makes you a godly dueler, we all know it does not.
I just see a great deal of learning that needs to happen for non ladder players. (and tradding)
I have talked with 20 or more ladder players that have xfered over to non-ladder last night we all came up with the same thing. everytime one would duel a non ladder player, the non had no chance.
again, I'm not saying I'm the godlyest, I'm not. (but I am real good. :lol: )
Anyone xfered over to non-ladder see the same thing?
 

HandofElysium

Member
Jun 23, 2003
1,232
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255
USEast Realm *andivius, *andivius2
toolthegod said:
Sup y'all? Now before you start flamming, let me just say this. Non-ladder players are not used to putting up with the new runewords like ladder chars are. These things are godly. (talking to ppl who play only non)
I dueled 4 barbs lastnight with my BVC, and I mean to tell you I won all four. but they were all non ladder players, I would show then my greif, "that sucks, my botd is better, it's over 400%" (38/397 grief. had to brag sorry)
NOW, I am not saying that I have a godly char no barbs can kill me, I'm not saying that. I'm just saying, with the ladder runewords, ladder chars > non ladder chars it seems. (watch a smiter enter a game of non-ladder players)
I know there are lots of kick "you know what" BVB chars on non, but do you really think a BVB can kill a BVB ladder? (with the same fighting style.)
I not saying that just cues you throw on some godly runewords thats makes you a godly dueler, we all know it does not.
I just see a great deal of learning that needs to happen for non ladder players. (and tradding)
I have talked with 20 or more ladder players that have xfered over to non-ladder last night we all came up with the same thing. everytime one would duel a non ladder player, the non had no chance.
again, I'm not saying I'm the godlyest, I'm not. (but I am real good. :lol: )
Anyone xfered over to non-ladder see the same thing?

This has been discussed many times over and "Grief" is the reason you are beating them. You are simply out damaging them whirl for whirl. You then prebuff with venom and it just simply adds to the awesome damage you already have.

I am suprised you haven't dueled any BOTD barbs when you were on ladder to figure this one out. Grief,Fortitude,and Spirt are the main ones that will change the pvp scene a bit.
 

RetroStar

Member
Apr 13, 2004
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HandofElysium said:
Grief, Fortitude,and Spirt are the main ones that will change the pvp scene a bit.

Watch out for 200%FBers with Merc with Infinity. They tele so fast you can't even touch the merc to get rid of the conviction. :/

Also popularity of Bow zons with Faith.
 

Choson

Banned
Jul 1, 2005
317
0
0
33
Canada
toolthegod said:
Sup y'all? Now before you start flamming, let me just say this. Non-ladder players are not used to putting up with the new runewords like ladder chars are. These things are godly. (talking to ppl who play only non)
I dueled 4 barbs lastnight with my BVC, and I mean to tell you I won all four. but they were all non ladder players, I would show then my greif, "that sucks, my botd is better, it's over 400%" (38/397 grief. had to brag sorry)
NOW, I am not saying that I have a godly char no barbs can kill me, I'm not saying that. I'm just saying, with the ladder runewords, ladder chars > non ladder chars it seems. (watch a smiter enter a game of non-ladder players)
I know there are lots of kick "you know what" BVB chars on non, but do you really think a BVB can kill a BVB ladder? (with the same fighting style.)
I not saying that just cues you throw on some godly runewords thats makes you a godly dueler, we all know it does not.
I just see a great deal of learning that needs to happen for non ladder players. (and tradding)
I have talked with 20 or more ladder players that have xfered over to non-ladder last night we all came up with the same thing. everytime one would duel a non ladder player, the non had no chance.
again, I'm not saying I'm the godlyest, I'm not. (but I am real good. :lol: )
Anyone xfered over to non-ladder see the same thing?

Are you talking about the barbs in public games who think they are god because of the 375+ Ebotdz they have also an enigma archon, and 45% rends and use no 3 20 20s? Wait untill you see a barb with 37 3 20 20 and a nice new greif from ladder and all he does is talk trash.
 
Jun 29, 2005
37
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20
California
Of course ladder will have the advantage from now on because of the runewords

go to USWESTNL'Barb Duels' sometime, they might offer you a challenge. 75%of them arent those
Choson said:
barbs in public games who think they are god because of the 375+ Ebotdz they have also an enigma archon, and 45% rends and use no 3 20 20s
.

anyway im not using greif, im using the fortitude/ fury combo, i think itll work out better
 

aznbboi16

Member
May 23, 2004
709
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120
Pub games don't really represent the better duelers. Saying that just because you have a grief, you can beat all the bvbs is just plain wrong (especially with a BvC? They must have been terrible).

I beat a fort/grief BvB with my ebotd BvA (note it isn't a BvB, and lacks the high ar/def of a BvB) by a rather large margin. So far that was the only Grief barb I dueled and I took him down rather hard. But that isn't to say another more skilled player won't beat me with his Grief Barb.

In my honest opinion, grief is a little overrated for barbs. Grief does boast a high minimum damage and 20%ds, but you also lose out on a large amount of stats, and therefore life. While I would still say Grief is better overall, ebotd is still very viable.
 

newerest

Member
Jan 28, 2005
505
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120
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Houston, Texas
netbux.org
toolthegod said:
Sup y'all? Now before you start flamming, let me just say this. Non-ladder players are not used to putting up with the new runewords like ladder chars are. These things are godly. (talking to ppl who play only non)
I dueled 4 barbs lastnight with my BVC, and I mean to tell you I won all four. but they were all non ladder players, I would show then my greif, "that sucks, my botd is better, it's over 400%" (38/397 grief. had to brag sorry)
NOW, I am not saying that I have a godly char no barbs can kill me, I'm not saying that. I'm just saying, with the ladder runewords, ladder chars > non ladder chars it seems. (watch a smiter enter a game of non-ladder players)
I know there are lots of kick "you know what" BVB chars on non, but do you really think a BVB can kill a BVB ladder? (with the same fighting style.)
I not saying that just cues you throw on some godly runewords thats makes you a godly dueler, we all know it does not.
I just see a great deal of learning that needs to happen for non ladder players. (and tradding)
I have talked with 20 or more ladder players that have xfered over to non-ladder last night we all came up with the same thing. everytime one would duel a non ladder player, the non had no chance.
again, I'm not saying I'm the godlyest, I'm not. (but I am real good. :lol: )
Anyone xfered over to non-ladder see the same thing?

Like stated before, they played non-ladder only, wait until you meet one of the non ladder/ladder barbs with godly gear. He will beat you so easily.

And yes, we all know that the runewords will be better than non ladder items...that is the reason to play ladder
 

luis19

Member
Mar 28, 2004
2,052
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aznbboi16 said:
Pub games don't really represent the better duelers. Saying that just because you have a grief, you can beat all the bvbs is just plain wrong (especially with a BvC? They must have been terrible).

I beat a fort/grief BvB with my ebotd BvA (note it isn't a BvB, and lacks the high ar/def of a BvB) by a rather large margin. So far that was the only Grief barb I dueled and I took him down rather hard. But that isn't to say another more skilled player won't beat me with his Grief Barb.

In my honest opinion, grief is a little overrated for barbs. Grief does boast a high minimum damage and 20%ds, but you also lose out on a large amount of stats, and therefore life. While I would still say Grief is better overall, ebotd is still very viable.

The damage difference completely overtakes the life difference between grief and botd. the life difference is minimal
 

aznbboi16

Member
May 23, 2004
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The damage difference isn't THAT huge either. Average, a Grief will have ~100 more damage than the ebotdz, which will translate into ~700-900 damage average before pvp penalty (my barb has a damage multiplier of ~7.5 with 40/9str storm and ~9 with beast). After pvp penalty it's about 58-75 damage with 50%dr. Of course there's the deadly strike too, which is what really sets grief apart from ebotd in my opinion.

Granted the damage difference can't be ignored, but having Grief doesn't guarantee you a win over an ebotd barb, and that was what I was trying to get at. And the life difference from using ebotd isn't anything to scoff at either. 60 possible saved stats = 240 life x lv34 BO on my barb (2.34 + .05 enigma) = 573 + 120 straight from 30 vit = 693 more life.

Even so, I agree that given equal gear (except grief/ebotd of course) and skill, a Grief barb should beat an ebotd barb by a small margin.
 

HandofElysium

Member
Jun 23, 2003
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aznbboi16 said:
The damage difference isn't THAT huge either. Average, a Grief will have ~100 more damage than the ebotdz, which will translate into ~700-900 damage average before pvp penalty (my barb has a damage multiplier of ~7.5 with 40/9str storm and ~9 with beast). After pvp penalty it's about 58-75 damage with 50%dr. Of course there's the deadly strike too, which is what really sets grief apart from ebotd in my opinion.

Granted the damage difference can't be ignored, but having Grief doesn't guarantee you a win over an ebotd barb, and that was what I was trying to get at. And the life difference from using ebotd isn't anything to scoff at either. 60 possible saved stats = 240 life x lv34 BO on my barb (2.34 + .05 enigma) = 573 + 120 straight from 30 vit = 693 more life.

Even so, I agree that given equal gear (except grief/ebotd of course) and skill, a Grief barb should beat an ebotd barb by a small margin.

Bottom line Grief Barb vs EBOTD Barb = ezpk (given equal gear and skill)

You prebuff with venom even worse...
 

luis19

Member
Mar 28, 2004
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grief's min damage is a lot higher than botd's. Many times with botd, you will find yourself crippled by low damage hits, while with grief your damage is much more consistant.

botd ~ 170 min dmg on weapon
grief ~ 400 min dmg on weapon

big difference in damage to me.

also that thing about the life difference, thats if ur a bvb barb.
my bvc barb will lose 120 life when i switch to grief, not significant at all imo.
 

aznbboi16

Member
May 23, 2004
709
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120
Yes, it is true the min damage is a lot higher, but the max damage is also lower. Just as many times you hit that crippling min damage, you also have a chance to hit for a very high amount of damage. There is no use comparing only min or only max. It is logical to compare average damage, because that is what will matter most during a duel that will take more than just a couple hits to finish.

I have a BvA, so the stats are more important to me than say on a BvC.

Stack some poison resist, and the venom really won't do all that much. Antidote buff, slap on treks or use some 20/11 charms. What's stopping me from prebuffing venom with my own grief or that new sin runeword?

Grief vs ebotd isn't exactly ezpk either (in my opinion at least). I think the grief barb would win the set, but the ebotd barb isn't going to die in 2 hits or something. Not ezpk. More like slightly ez-er pk.
 

Davie.

Member
Nov 23, 2004
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Damn aznboi u smoking crack if you dont think grief beats botd by a large margin. Its just plain better. 330 min better and not much less max really...then you add in 20 ds and gg s/e.
 

aznbboi16

Member
May 23, 2004
709
0
120
Davie. said:
Damn aznboi u smoking crack if you dont think grief beats botd by a large margin. Its just plain better. 330 min better and not much less max really...then you add in 20 ds and gg s/e.
You really might want to try your math again. 400-170 = 230. The max damage is like ~75 less. Like I already said, Grief has about 100 more average damage. And like I've said again and again, yes I agree Grief is better overall, but the Grief barb will not come out unscathed or kill the ebotd barb in seconds just because he has his uber godly Grief. Also look at the numbers, it's only like 75 more pvp damage average. Not that insane.

And like I've already said, I've dueled some grief barbs. Their damage doesn't seem all that ridiculous as you guys would suggest. Sure it's consistent, but it's nothing I haven't seen before (the guy was even wearing a fortitude, which should make the difference even bigger). Needless to say, I won the duel with about 3/5 of my life, but that was probably because I had better gear.
 

Linkin

Banned
Nov 13, 2004
35
0
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Germany
www.mozilla.org
well yuo are really smoking alot weed. nice stuff yuo have i guess....>_<

lets do some math ^_^:

15% berserker axe 5 sox:
27-81 dam
+400 dam grief runeword

==
427-481

15% etherial berserker axe 6 soc:
185-545

ROFL

so lets get teh 20% ds from grief too:
427*1.2 - 481*1.2=
512-577

average dam: 544


vs

185-545
+30 stats

average dam: 365 + 30 stats (30 str provides some dam too...)


544 vs ~380 (yes yes yes teh 30 stats)

I guess yuo are just another-non-ladder-guy who is crying about no having grief...

ppl like me who played ladder and have grief on non ladder now beats EBOTD barbs like eazy ****...compared to sacrifice palas ^^

i never lost a bvb with my ladder bvc barb >_<

my grief: 39/379 ...


€: added average dam...i could calculate teh dam with +30 stats if yuo like
 

aznbboi16

Member
May 23, 2004
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I have a Grief actually, so why would I cry? I just don't feel like rebuilding since my BvA is already lv94 and I think he is good enough.

Maybe I haven't repeated myself enough. Yes I know grief is better overall, but ebotd does just fine. It's not a night and day difference we're looking at here (like old smiters compared to new smiters 3k vs 8k+ smite).

It's certainly not me smoking all the weed in here today...Reading comprehension guys, reading comprehension.
 

Omikron8

Member
Jun 28, 2003
8,171
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You can thank blizzard for their ladder favortism, which i would not have a problem with if they deleted all ladder only runewords upon merging with non ladder (awaits extreme flaming).
 

aznbboi16

Member
May 23, 2004
709
0
120
Linkin said:
i never lost a bvb with my ladder bvc barb >_<
BTW, what realm are you on? I'll gladly duel you to see how well your BvC can stand up to my outdated BvA (not even a BvB). Just because you guys can stand up to some pubby "BvB"s doesn't mean Grief is making all the difference in the world.

USWest NL
*ehhh